Princess Jello ALWAYS freaked me out. How could someone possibly feel comfortable saying no to a ring at a basketball game? why would anyone want to trick their partner into marrying them?

Yeah but it’s hilarious if it’s a joke

I mean, people talk about wanting to get married before the actual proposal happens, so in most cases the act itself is purely for the show. The drop on one knee + give her the ring moment is not when one makes a decision, it's when the decision becomes official.

If anyone proposed to me publically I'd say no on sheer principle!

Lol same

This! People don't get it. It's like, "Oh, divorce is bad for men because they are more likely to commit suicide." Not her problem! No one should have to stay in a bad relationship even if vows were said.

@@melodyclark1944Especially if the woman’s the reason why they’re in a bad relationship.

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That’s a very important point. Makes me reconsider my “calling the cops” joke in this video.

Pop Culture Detective I didnt even take that as a joke.

One of my stalker was skinny and kinda short so when I told adults they just said that he wasn't a real threat to me and because I probably was stronger than him I should just try and ignore him, ugh

Wow... that is truly terrifying.

No cop would say something like that. Gimme a break 🙄

For some reason, self-described "nice guys" fail to realize that these movies are fiction, so of course they end with the woman falling in love with the author-insert character. She's a fictional character, so she has no agency of her own. That doesn't mean that the same tactics are welcomed by real women.

I fully agree! Women end up capitulating from being 'worn down' or worse they end up being manipulated into an unhealthy relationship.. and these things are glorified or romanticized by Hollywood. I think the Fifty shades saga is another perfect example of an abusive stalking for love dynamic. Hope that one gets reviewed soon. There we see an even more troubling trope - the idea that the perfect woman can reform or fix a deeply narcissistic or even sociopathic personality. So many women fall for that trap in real life and don't even know how to recognize the boundary transgressions and controlling behaviors, they think that what they see in the movies is playing out for them in their lives but don't know what the real world consequences will be.

what I hate even more than him asking like that is her current dates reaction to her finally saying yes. Like, dude, are your seriously getting mad at her because she said yes to prevent a guy from killing himself? Neither of them were good men.

Don't forget it's women who love this movie.

​@@Bubba__Sawyer unfortunately, yes.

When I was in high school, a guy a couple of grades below gave me valentines gifts (chocolate, balloon, teddy bear, the whole thing). We'd talked but I had never ever at all indicated romantic interest, but after he gave me the presents, my own friends, who knew i had no interest in him whatsoever, were like you should at least give him a kiss as though i owed him something in return for the gifts I'd never asked for. It's weird how people think you can so easily buy affection from women regardless of their feelings on the subject.

I also had a similar experience where he would go to my friends and family and tell them I rejected him. My parents would constantly tell me I should go out with him because he "looked so sad". My friends would joke around that I just needed to be "worn down". It's really messed up.

Honey Casablancas I feel that public proposals of marriage are very similar, but worse. A woman is put in a position where she feels that she has to say "yes", otherwise she's a cold, hard bitch.

Don't forget it's almost entirely women who love this movie and prop it up as the quintessential romance movie.

Fr

She should've just said, "Cool, bro."

They totally are, looking back on the old Addams family movies these actually show a lot of good qualities that Gomez and Morticia have (in their love for each other and for their children). I think they are also one of the most positive married couples I can remember having seen portrayed in media in a funny way, without involving jokes on how marriage made them resent each other. They're just so darn happy together it's fantastic.

They with Al and Lois from Malcolm in the middle are my perfect example of a functioning fictional couple.

They're extremely honest with each other as well. It's done in a comedic way but it's still brilliant.

The joke about Addams family is not that they are creepy and spooky. The joke is that they are really really happy.

As a child, Gomez Adams, in the form of John Astin, was my ideal husband

The whole "friendzoning" thing is just so ignorant. Guys who bitch like this are so clueless they don't realize that a healthy relationship is much more likely to develop out of genuine friendship than whining and acting like girls are somehow obligated to "give them a chance". The idea that being "just" a friend is somehow an insult or not worth their time shows just what an entitled little prick that kind of guy is.

Well that, and people who think women should be mind readers. Like, if you don't actually tell a woman how you feel about her, how can you whine about being friendzoned? It's like they can't imagine a women and men just being friends and expect the women to think all men they associate with are attracted to them, it's ridiculous.

Fr

Edurne Ace me too. I felt so angry when he just when to her house and then couldn't understand why she was angry. During the whole movie he appear so creepy to me.

It's funny (worrying actually) how I hear many men say: But this is what you want - women say this and only mean "try harder". And they honestly think that it is their experience telling them to keep going. While it truly must be ideas from films, series, etc.

Even worse when he accuses her of lying to get rid of him. Like take a hint. She's not interested.

Sadly, it's that way in real life too. Often times a man is harassing a woman, and when her boyfriend shows up, he apologizes to the boyfriend instead of the woman he was harassing.

​@@Toshimi1043It's even worse if you must face a very pissed off parent

i use this line all the time and im a guy- so the rest of the comment is meaningless

Dude, if women could just say to a guy "not interested" and have their wishes respected, we would not do that in the first place. We do that because men don't respect our boundaries and wishes when we tell them "no", and it's only the threat of having their ass kicked by another guy, beign it boyfriend or parent, what convinces them to finally leave us alone. I used to hang out with my girlfriends in gay clubs for this very reason of not having to deal with tresspasing drunken guys that quicly turn hostile and harassing when you kindly turn them down.

Hannah Black jeezus that's spoooky

What's worse is when you meet someone who honestly thinks it's a love song. When my cousin said that to me when we were kids I was honestly speechless.

Thankfully, Sting didn't write that song to be romantic, people just took it the wrong way.

Hannah Black And would you believe that some people think that this is a LOVE song? I'm serious. There was a documentary in the UK a few years ago about best selling songs. "Every Breath You Take" by the Police was one of those songs. Apparently, a fair percentage see it as a love song. Amazing.

I guess that one Internet privacy commercial took it the right way.

yeah, but i would add that it doesnt represent the point of view of the guy only. When (some) women write about a romantic fantasy it ends up becoming the same tropes (twilight). It isnt a "male" point a view its just a stupid point of view.

Ouch. That sucks. I'd prefer straight talk and to be turned away than embarrass or harass unknowingly. And its tropes like this that make it harder to do. My experience is that people I am interested in who don't feel the same way usually drop all communication. I hope its not me, just a run of bad experiences but without any clear answer I can't know. I really don't want to be a bad guy. Best I can do is respect the silence and move on, doesn't' feel right though. Gotta be a better way. I don't think your a bad person. You did do the right thing. I think it would be great to see that kind of story a bit more often.

Exactly! Her story arc is realizing Mr. Man knew what was best the whole time. So damn cringey.

I hate it when guys suddenly get interested in me (they tend to do a kind of intense stare that's really creepy) and act like they know everything about me when really that's the opposite of the truth. Like there was a guy who had met me just twice at school and he kept overstepping my personal boundaries and talked to me as if I was someone he had known all his life. Eventually I started looking around for him every time I entered the classroom and then went as far away from him as possible, because if he saw me he wouldn't leave me alone. Even during breaks when I took out my cellphone to signal to him that I wanted privacy he kept pestering me and asked me things non-stop. I got the impression he had a fantasy about what I was like and didn't even care that I was a real person, he wanted me to be the way that suited his needs.

I agree. Ever notice how in the beginning of many rom coms, the protagonist is already with someone that they're bored of? They toss their stable, long-term relationships away for the sake of someone they just met. That's not love, that's infatuation, and it really pisses me off that these film's message is if your relationship requires any effort to maintain in any capacity, then you aren't meant to be.

Interesting, that puts a new spin on the birth of Anteros.

Well, in the first season of Stranger Things they tried to subvert this by having Nancy stay with Steve, but the stupid fan base begged for Nancy to end up with Jonathan in season 2, and the producers caved in.

imaginareality The male gaze. The masculine p.o.v is the default, the feminine is the "other". It's like being a fish in water, so normal that you don't notice it.

So how does one get to that point?

That sincerely touched my heart.

The video makes me wonder how many healthy relationship there are in romances and romantic comedies. They are out there, right?

I don't think that is anyone's favorite part of the movie.

And not the creepy, unwanted one.

The trees clearly don't. Imagine if someone carved the name of somebody you didn't even know into your flesh. "Oh, I really love this person, I should totally let the world know how much in love I am by mutilating and torturing this living thing right here".

They have an absolute love for each other, backed with total loyalty to each other and murderous intents toward anything menacing them.

This is one of my favorite things about the Addams Family. They're all really friendly, loving folks. Don't cross 'em, and you'll be fine!

And it's joyously and explicitly mutual. Seriously, they are #relationshipgoals if you stop to think about it. Get you a partner who cares that being a stay-at-home parent isn't completely fulfilling. Get you a partner with mutual kinks. Get you a partner who is enthusiastically consenting instead of expecting you to read their mind. The Addams are *amazing* in every iteration so far. :-D

One of the best on screen couples ever!

The "perfect couple" concept is toxic.

It's weird & only weirdos will justify it

You're welcome.

I'm right there with you. Though I did see it in most of the examples (that I've seen), I hadn't connected Groundhog Day to it. Ah, well. Just something I'll be more aware of.

Ruining Love Actually for everyone else has become a holiday tradition for me. What else are we going to watch? Die Hard?

I kinda already had the book ruined for me (Die Hard).

Saw "Love Actually" in the theater - my takeaway was that there was ONE couple of that whole bunch that was actually in love (or at least had a reasonably solid foundation for love). My reading of the movie was that it was an interesting (and dark) deconstruction of the romance genre. There are people who take that movie at face value? Really?

faalkaa I just finished watching that movie. I agree with you.

Now I understand why it feels like I've already watched this video. I've already seen the Nerdwriter video and I liked it very much.

i feel cheated that the movie isn't a horror tbh i'd love to se a full length re-edit

Passengers is a very good example, and it's always so annoying that even when the film itself shows hints that it recognizes that what the male protagonist does is """wrong""", it always rewards him because it just so happens, oh so conveniently, that the love interest doesn't mind the stalking or abuse and gives her consent retroactively. Jonathan said at the end that he's working on a video about "abduction for love", and I wonder if he'll cover Passengers in that.

On the surface, I would agree that Passengers falls into this trope. However, I disagree with your opinion that the movie presents it as "it's okay to stalk someone because you're desperately, unhealthily alone." That's *not* the argument the movie made. That all hinges on the concept of "the drowning man will always try to drag someone down with him". Summed up: humans are pack animals and we're not designed to live in isolation. Very bad things happen when humans are cut off from the world. Jim is inherently a good person, and even acknowledges right up front "What if you could make your life infinitely better, but at the expense of ruining someone else's?" He's not passing his connection with Aurora off as love. That connection is a lifeboat. He regards her much like some of us regard our connections with fictional characters: someone with whom to have a meaningful but non-existent relationship. He grows to love her after learning more about her, enough that he doesn't _want_ to ruin her life by waking her up, but again: humans in isolation make terrible decisions for the sake of their own survival. And Aurora's choosing to remain awake is similarly only superficially "rewarding the stalking". But her choice ties into the movie's other lesson: "You can't get so hung up on where you'd rather be that you forget to make the most of where you are." Jim offers her, freely, the opportunity to go back to sleep and return to her previous life plan of telling a unique story from her travels. She makes the choice to stay awake because she realizes that by staying awake she can _truly_ achieve her dream to write a story that nobody else can ever write, just not in the way she originally planned. Definitely is there stalking behavior, hell yes, and it's a well-told tension in the story and relationship while never really being validated as an acceptable action. But it's not ultimately the message of the story; _Passengers_ wasn't really a Romance movie. And like I said: that started out as a lifeboat connection. Jim wasn't so much fixated on _Aurora_ so much as he was in dire need of _any_ human connection and just happened upon her. As I've told other people, imagine the story if he'd stumbled across a man instead. How might that be more forgiveably framed in people's minds?

I love that you pointed this out! Darcy totally respects Lizzie's rejection; even the letter he gives her after begins with a reassurance that he's not trying again.

Dante Rodrigues I think you acknowledging it will definitely make a difference in the lives of men and women around you!

Glad I'm not the only one who felt that way! I was pretty confused by the fact that so many people thought that Steve was a bad guy throughout most of season one. I didn't think he was a *good* guy, per se, but I thought his anger toward Jonathan was pretty understandable. I liked Jonathan and Nancy better as friends and definitely think it's a little weird that she wound up with the guy who literally took photos of her undressing without her consent.

You put exactly what I felt through the series into words!!

TJ Hastie sorry to say that but Steve is a big jerk himself. To him women are if at all secon class people. its so frustrating to see all those people just love him while he teaches young boys how to manipulate girls into liking them and say "hes acting like a big brother, so cute!" ugh! the worst are the ones who actually see these trope and decide to ignore it with the explaination that seeing women as uneaqual humans isnt something that makes a character unlikable. if you dont know what i am talking about rewatch the scene where Steve and Dustin are walking on the train rails. enough said.

there, i found it: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y7J1ebCd27K8on0.html At first its seen as "ok" to threatens the life of people to mpress a girl who doenst even want to get impressed. then Steve explains how to master manipulating girls and on top of this he explains how all girls are the same , like you can put them in maybe three kind of boxes. the only "special" "other" girl is the ones that he luckily gets to know better. though he doenst came to the resolution that ever girl could have a complex identity like himself and shes rather a rare kind of girl (see how it sounds like hes talking about animals?)

TJ Hastie Yep I agree, and it's not even like John is portrayed as likeable and misunderstood like a lot of these films do, at least at first. He's shown as creepy even beyond his stalking behaviour. And yet yes Nancy finds him irresistible apparently even leading to I guess breaking up either Steve, though they never really address it. Steve as you say has grown as a character and is one of the most likeable on the show, and is quite different from how most male characters are portrayed, showing him as good at looking after kids which is usually depicted as a "feminine" thing that men shouldn't do (which is BS obviously) so it's nice they show that to be a positive male thing and what makes him a good person. I guess the John being creepy thing might be defended as "the show is a homage to 80s movies so they should include the common 80s stalker trope" but they still don't give him any serious repurcussions. I guess because they want him to be one of the heroes of the show, and so they think they can't show him as having any really serious negative flaws, which annoys me as bland action films always do that so it'd be nice to have a morally grey character instead. I do enjoy the Bob character who again subverts common depictions of what a "real man" has to be and is a great father figure who's again great at looking after the kids, though again he seems a bit too perfect sometimes. The show is stuck sometimes between trying to hard to stick to 80s tropes and trying to subvert them.

Fandom Trash YES!! That would be great 👏👏👏

Fandom Trash Oh, that would be interesting! Also, the way mainstream media depecting men in women's clothing as something funny or cause for concern. They probably stem from the same underlying problem.

Seconded! Well, maybe rather on queer-coded villains in general, and how gender-nonconformity is used by filmmakers to make villains "other". Because I can think of quite a few examples not limited to gay men...

I'd love to see that too. Even though I know how harmful this trope can be, and even though I'm queer myself, I can't help loving the hell out of villains like Bruno from Strangers on a Train (even though he might be the most toxic example I can think of).

Your comment makes me think of the movie I Love You Phillip Morris, which actually fits into the subject of this video as well. In that movie, a man stalks his love interest briefly, and they get together. However, as the story progresses, the man is revealed to be obsessive, controlling, irresponsible, and ultimately abusive, always using love as an excuse - and wouldn't you know it, the couple is gay! I don't think it's a negative portrayal of homosexuality per se, but I think that because it's not a classic boy meets girl story, it manages to get away from the tropes of that genre and not romanticize harmful behavior.

eruditeidiot Glad you’re not in that situation anymore, good for you 💕😌

We are all happy that you left! I hope there is nothing but healthy love in your life!

if anyone ever questions the point of covering these topics you're proof it's worthwhile 💕💕💕💕💕

Probably it is a way of saying "if you keep insisting my boyfriend is gonna punch you in the face".. that may work better against a dude being a creep than just saying no sadly

AcaciaFlowers Yeah I don’t like Jonothan in the slightest, his character has always bothered me.

Ell Salta Quality over quantity is always better. Worth the wait

I'm guessing that at the end of the video, he was saying that donating to patreon would help speed up the video making process. He says that he does this himself, so if he had more money, he might have more time to spend on video making, or he might get others to help. I feel like I'm plugging his patreon for him, but I guess if you're sad that it takes a while, then donating might be a good option.

Alvinsch parce que chévere verlo aquí🙌

Criticising and liking a movie: you can both.

Alvinsch Hey, one of the best Spanish music youtubers follow Pop culture agency. It doesn't be chance indeed.

Apenas ayer descubrí tu canal; ahora entiendo por qué tu comentario sobre el vídeo de ñas 4 décadas de Arjona me sonó familiar jajajajaja

10 Things I Hate About You is up there in my favorite movie list but it's definitely a fair point how stalkery Patrick Verona is.

It's up to both men and women to work towards reversing these ideas by moving away from traditional gender roles. Women still generally expect men to do all the courting in the beginning stages of a relationship. Too many supposed feminists or "strong independent women" still want a traditional man and relationships with traditional values.

Indeed! I've never thought of that, but it's a really great example.

I feel the same about Shrek 2.

Of course, HTTYD has it's own problems wrt gender, but that's another topic for another day.

Weeeell, in the first movie there wasn't really an upgrade from this theme of love through eyes. There's even a slow-mo scene with Astrid walking towards the protagonist as seen through his eyes -- though I'm willing to say he was thinking "how cool" instead of "yum, eye candy", they still had had zero interaction and was basing off his crush on only appearances...

Honestly, as much as I appreciated the Hiccup/Astrid dynamic, the coding of Stoic and Valta's relationship as abusive (right before his father dies a hero) was really triggery for me.

I'm almost tempted to give groundhog day a pass in-context in that the protagonist has literally infinite time with nothing else to do. He attempts suicide a few times before he even tries to date his coworker, and somewhat succeeds romantically with her out of sheer sympathy when he tells her what's going on. But of course each time he gets sent right back to the start again. Might be remembering the sequence wrong though. The fact that ultimately seducing her on false pretenses is what lifts the curse is significantly harder to defend.

The only way I can vaguely attempt to justify Groundhog Day was that he actually only escaped the time loop when he stopped trying to win her through trickery and just tried to be a better person. Weak, I know.

That sounds like Disturbia and that scenes is indeed super messed up.

I completely agree. Be conscientious of harmful ideas that some tropes perpetuate. If it weeds out some of the things you consume, then it's probably not worth consuming them. But it doesn't mean stories or characters you love are ruined forever per se. My heart sank at "Big Fish" because it's my favorite Burton film and I'd honestly never noticed it as stalking until this analysis pointed it out. But in the case of the fantasy aspect of the film, it's not ruined for me because we're given some ambiguity in the actual stories and details of the main character. It's up to the audience interpretation to look back on the stories he told and understand that maybe his stories injected tropes that he did not actually commit. At least that's what I'll think because I love everything else about this film!

Alexandria Olive I haven't seen it for a long time. Which characters are you referring to?

Alexandria Olive Just seen that it was the Emilio Estevez character with Andie McDowell. I've probably seen lots of movies where stalking is so normalised, I hadn't even realised it, which is scary really

Alexandria Olive Ugh, his character always bothered me growing up, especially with how hostile he would get with each encounter; as if she owed him anything! Then he finally leaves her alone after he forcefully kisses her, and drives away, feeling on top of the world, leaving her to question her judgement, about rejecting him. Barf 🙄