WATCH exclusive bonus content where *Aaron* answers audience questions. CLICK the link: triggernometry.locals.com/ CHAPTERS👇 00:00 Intro 01:25 Aaron Bastani’s Background 04:45 The Failure of Mainstream Media 06:42 What Happened to Left Wing Media? 08:52 The Increase of Identity Politics in Media 10:52 Is The BBC Right Leaning? 12:19 The Differences Between Liberal & Left Wing 16:24 The Misrepresentation of People on The Left 20:22 Sponsor Message: AG1 22:16 Can Labour Hold The Left Together? 24:18 Is Aaron Excited About The Idea of Keir Starmer Winning the Next Election? 27:04 The Most Dysfunctional Parts of British Politics 28:13 Are The Top 10% Really The Bad Guys? 33:19 Why is Having a High Income a Problem? 39:06 The Problem With Political Capture By The Elite 42:05 How Can Aaron Identify With Socialism When it Has Never Worked? 46:49 Lessons We Can Learn From Different Societies 52:23 What Left Wing Policies Would Aaron Implement? 55:56 What is Fair Pay For Workers? 1:00:00 AI, Automation and the Future of Jobs 1:06:31 What’s the One Thing We’re Not Talking About?

Without guests with opposing views we become an echo chamber. Pleased to see content like this. Thumbs up lads.

It's wonderful to see people with many disagreements having a civil, polite and even amicable discussion. It can still be done.

I’m not a compete socialist nor a complete capitalist but what I do like about Novara Media is they talk about actual working class issues. Unlike certain media in the “right” all they talk about is “woke, trans is bad, lgbtq+ is bad, woke bad again and of course immigrants bad etc etc” and it gets boring quickly. All I want to see discusses is how are we going to fix housing crises, homelessness, child property rising in Britain, people’s wages keeping up with inflation, our infrastructure problems in Britain *look what’s happening to schools* etc etc etc

“Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm; but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves.” ― T.S. Eliot

I've listened to Aaron's podcast on Novara Media, and while I might disagree with him, he's a polite, respectable man and I think our society only benefits when people with very different opinions engage in civil discourse.

what an utterly fabulous discussion... it makes you realise how we are completely failed by mainstream media's obsession with adversarial debate...

I probably don’t agree with him on much but I appreciate at least he’s willing to talk to you guys.

Aaron is one of the most honest and civil journalists reporting in UK right now.

I really like and appreciate this podcast channel. I don’t find myself with the same political or social views as the hosts, but these long form open forums where people are listened to and allowed to fully express their thoughts and subject to constructive challenge makes me a regular listener.

Aaron's on an interesting arc. It'll be complete when he reaches The Lotuseaters with Carl.

Great conversation. Triggernometry put me onto Novara Media whose output particularly Aaron’s downstream has been quality listening.

Well done Trigger boys for having a genuinely good faith conversation and well done Aaron for coming on. This is just how grown-up conversations should be between people who disagree but respect each other. If we had more of this than the screaming at each other from extreme positions then we’d start finding common ground and rebuilding things. The internet wants us divided, reconciliation isn’t as “exciting” but is necessary for our survival. More of this please!

The "Guardian" is appalling.

Cool. Should be interesting. Don't agree with much of what Aaron says, but he's always seems capable of a reasonable conversation with anyone.

It's always interesting to listen to someone rationalize their religious beliefs

0:25 Marx clearly established the revolution MUST BE VIOLENT (-_-) Who is this guy kidding?

Hats off to Aaron Bastani for coming on the show, admitting he was a snowflake and making some sensible arguments. We may not agree with him but he seems to represent the 'old left' that was able to debate without hate.

I think the reason why so many people 'hate' rich people is because capitalism is inherently exploitative. That wealth only exists as a result of unequal pay.

The fact that you got Aaron on is so good! And it's funny because this is what the mainstream used to do decades ago! (I wasn't alive then). But you see those old school shows where two people who don't agree talk. This is what people want to hear people with different opinions having conversations and not saying they want to kill and hate eachother. Touche to you all, may more of these conversations happen going forward! Other podcasts take note!

Found this to be a very civilised, open minded and interesting conversation. Aaron is not a hardliner and, for a younger chap, quite an old school leftist and social democrat. It's refreshing to see a respectful conversation looking at commonalities rather than difference. Well done Konstantin and Francis, much appreciated in the current online political climate.

I'm so glad Aaron decided to come on the show, this is exactly the type of conversations we need. I may not agree with Aaron on everything but he's came onto the show and given a really good account of himself and put forward some really interesting arguments from a left wing perspective on how to reshape the economy. More of this please, it is needed more now than ever.

Wow, my future aspiration is to become a cleaner for Triggernometry, more than £16 an hour! Nay, I want to become a cleaner for Novara media as seems I will get close to £30 an hour!

Credit to Aaron for coming on, good for him.

Surprised how much I agreed with this guy. Also pleasantly surprised how likeable he came across. His points on Land Value Tax are sound as is his ending answer on the coming population imbalance. Well done, all, on this excellent episode.

Probably in a minority here but I enjoy both Novara and Triggernometry.

What this channel is providing is a platform for real discussion between people with different viewpoints who are able to accept insights from each other and debate them for their veracity and applicability. How refreshing!

You asked: How can you identify with socialism, when it has never worked. I say: it was never allowed to work. American hegemony, perpetrated by CIA subversion, and backed up by the absolute might of the US military assured that it never could and never will. If the Cold War had manifested, instead, as enlightened global diplomacy, the Soviet Union could have marshaled its resources for the betterment of its society and away from competing with the perpetual war machine of the US and its unlimited expenditures. That was and is the whole point of US foreign policy: force its adversaries into destitution and failed statism by outspending, sanctioning, and subverting them from without and from within. How do you not see that?

It’s genuinely heartwarming to witness people with different views speaking to one another with respect. I hope to see more interviews like this in coming days.

The only way for the U.K. to pull itself out of the current crisis is to have these two camps focused on improving the country. This starts with conversations like this.

Great conversation with Bastani. Big fan of his future-forward thinking and he’s spot on.

I used to think Aaron was disingenuous, but he is as least willing to debate with people who go on to dismantle his belief system. Like Peter Hitchens did.

Where's the socialism/Marxism? This guy is like many who enjoy the social currency of claiming to be Marxist, but when pushed have some pretty standard left or even centre-left ideas. He's probably intelligent enough to see the flaws of his self proclaimed title, but not brave enough to face the backlash by admitting he's grown out of it.

Anyone who calls profit sharing or co-ownership "communism" is gaslighting.

Great show, glad you could get him on in finally! I’ve noticed from his tweets, Aaron Bastani is becoming increasingly ‘based’ - good to see some on the left talking about important social issues that people care about, instead of all the usual woke garbage.

Venezuela “went down” because Chavez imprisoned or chased away capital, skills (oil industry), trade partners not because oil prices dropped. And we now know most of what the Soviets / Russians produced were better than nothing but were still vastly technologically products that are also unreliable. Kiev invasion bore this out.

That was one of my favourites of all your conversations. Thanks so much!

Even as a reasonably left wing person I've never liked Novara, but Aaron seems very thoughtful and tolerant. He doesn't seem like much of a Marxist though, but maybe that's why I liked him 😂 I'm pleased he was willing to talk with you both, and pleased you were willing to have him on. In such a polarised world I think this baseline level of mutual respect and tolerance is more important than any individual policy.

Aaron misses the point on job automation. Automation replaces the tediously boring repetitive work that drives people mad or makes the switch off. Automation frees the workforce to work on more profitable dextrose jobs. Another point he misses out on, is that an employee needs to generate at least twice their income in order to recoup their salary/wages.

Glad that common ground was found on the idea of the richest of society being able to buy political power being a bad thing for us all.

Love conversations between people that politely disagree, like this one. So much of the podcast space has devolved into arse-kissing circle jerks between people (on all sides) with the same cookie cutter non-opinions, it's nice to get a break from it.

His world view and the born out consequences of starvation and oppression disgusts me - I hope in this interview he gets exposed

The really interesting thing about this conversation was how much they agreed on issues and these were important issues ,housing, outsourcing etc. Many years ago I worked as a waiter in the house of commons. On my first day I was taken to the main dining room and shown where the conservative, labour and liberal tables were. My first question was 'Why don't we just seat them wherever when they come in?' and I was told by a rather startled head waiter 'That would be asking for trouble'. WTF 'are they children' was the though that went through my head. And unfortunately our political system does in fact reduce intelligent adults to children. I think that most of us would agree on 90% of the stuff that needs to be done to make this country a better place to live but we are all stuck talking about the 10% meaning that it is virtually impossible to get anything good done. There are really good people in Parliament but this adversarial divide means they spent their time arguing about crap. That is why our national decision making needs to be changed in structure, we all need to grow up.

Great conversation, please do more between you. Coming together to discuss ideas is the way forward

I'm a Socialist because... I'm a lazy leech who doesn't understand economics, history and human nature.

Really enjoyed listening to Aaron and the boys just shows we need to bring back proper debate rather than cancelling and refusing to listen to any opposing views.

Good evening to you three. Long story made really wee. Think we just need to begin with, no more right or left. We need to unite all in our world including our politic. Yes please and thankyou. Ask ourselves what ought this look and feel like... 💜

a lefty who can have a conversation?1, fair play

Great guest, much respect for having him on given that you have often found yourselves shooting from the opposing side of the culture war in years gone by. I've read his book and what I like about Bastani is that he actually offers solutions and also isn't thin-skinned.

You're right - the Cathy Newman interview was the end of the mainstream media

Great to see Aaron on the show but he basically says nothing and whilst passionate it’s grievance and no substantive structured plan . But goid on him for coming on if a tad bland 😊

Agreed completely with his view on the BBC

One of the best interviews you've done. I've tried watching Novara but feel the bias ruins a lot of the content. This demonstrated how having even minor things quetioned from multilple view points creates a much better discussion than an echo chamber.

As many people have said - we disagree with him but respect the fact that he's entered the lion's den and a respectful conversation ensued. I can't wrap my head around socialism. It's contrary to the human spirit. I just don't understand why people would embrace it. - No doubt he feels just the same about us.

52:17 Singapore also allowed for the most productive demographic to thrive.

A little example of Socialism Bernie Sanders the Great Socialist Acquirer insane wealth 4 homes all while in office not bad for guy that is for the people!

I've caught Aaron on GB News a few times and actually thought he speaks a lot of sense... I agree with some of his stuff but at least he's come on here and had a discussion with you guys. Great interview, well done Aaron for a good balanced discussion.

Very interesting episode would have liked to have heard more. Props to whoever did the camera work and editing.

16:26 basically, Aaron is using the thesis of Matt Goodwin about who is the elite that is ruling the country.

Great discussion, gents. Many thanks. I found myself agreeing and disagreeing throughout. It’s both a pleasure and a relief to watch a sincere and civilised exchange of views like this. Bravo 👏

Saying your a Marxist is the epitome of privilege, from a silverspoon.

I hope you are going to ask him if he believes in socialism because he wants to use it to move the wealth of the native British to the immigrants at the bottom of society, of which his family is an example.

If anyone is going to save the left from the left, it would most probably be Aaron Bastani. I've loads of time for this man. Also possibly one of the best Triggers so far. Well done!

Singapore also permits the removing of women’s clits and have some of the most harsh criminal penalties on earth. Spitting on the street gets you beaten with a rod. Caught with ANY pot, executed. Sure it’s prosperous, but it’s also BRUTAL.

Novara fans will predictably say; "Why has he gone on that far right fascist channel?".

"My view is that Labour will be less bad." Wow. Just wow. Vote Reform!

Nothing wrong with being a socialist. Just like there is nothing wrong with having a child's mentality

When he said he was kind of all over the place politics wise he wasn't kidding (not meant as an insult), wants powers in London reduced and corporate money out of politics those are anti establishment views and was in favour of nuclear energy that would bring serious competition to the energy sector so there isnt a monopoly in that marketplace (which would have the added benefit of reduced energy costs for customers) thats capitalism done the right way, which makes me wonder have political labels lost their meaning or are they used to keep people divided politically because in general people in society tend to want the same thing when it comes to the important stuff, some food for thought.

An example of people hating the rich I can easily recall is the amount of people I saw laughing at the people who died in the Titan sub, merely because they were rich.

Great interview. Wonderful too listen to an opposing point of view. Huge respect to Aaron. We need more of this 👏

He is trying so hard to appear reasonable, it’s a shame they didn’t push back as much as they did with Pearl

Well done on showing how much common ground there is between left and right. It is the political class we must recognise as driving the narrative of division and self enrichment at the expense of all of us.

Before I start watching it. Glad to see Aaron here. I think he is the only one from the left that is trying to build bridges, having discussions, debates and arguments for a better good rather than just "cancel" who thinks differently. I disagree with his point of view, but it is always good listening. Hope to see soon in the Novara media channel a KK talking about his book.

Very interestng. Great to see left and right leaning journalist having a sensible conversation

Can't take this guy seriously, he says look at what the Soviets developed, great military equipment, how about asking him what did they invent for peoples improvement, a great O, just send them to the Gulag instead. That's the level of most of his view points.

The things you need to do to even implement socialism are horrendous. Plus people don’t just want the base level things that it promised in the past. They want a higher standard or living that cannot be doled out.

Great seeing such an educated and reasonable presentation of the left, well done Aaron.

I always find it amazing how these political conversations never go on to identify fiat currency as the enemy, we need to tax the rich more and more because fiat currencies debase at speed. A return to sound money is the first step in a better future. At least give the average man a chance to save for the future. You need to make 7-10% on your money just to track runaway inflation, and thats in Europe, God help Venezuela, Argentina etc. No central authority should have the power to issue money, decentralize money, let the people own the money, and most other arguments dissapear.

What's next a self proclaimed fascist?

Fascinating interview and it just goes to show with many of the issues there is much less between the left and the right than people think.

Here are a few key points from the conversation with Aaron Bastani: • Bastani co-founded the left-wing media outlet Novara Media. He started it due to frustrations with mainstream media coverage and analysis. • He sees the BBC as a liberal, rather than a left-wing, institution. It focuses more on representation issues than workers' rights. • Bastani identifies as a socialist and Marxist. He believes workers should get a significant share of the value they create. However, he acknowledges the role of entrepreneurs in starting businesses and taking risks. • He discussed both successes (Singapore) and failures (USSR, Venezuela) of socialism. He argues socialism in Latin America faced unique challenges due to U.S. opposition. • Policies Bastani supports include: scrapping police commissioners, electoral reform, a national investment bank, and higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy. He also supports a land value tax. • On automation, he believes it will eliminate most jobs within 50-100 years. This requires rethinking capitalism and economic distribution. Climate change and aging populations are other vital challenges he highlighted. -Anthropic Claude-2-100k 🙂

He doesn't always seem to have a good grasp of economics, it's all very theoretical and 19th century. Not much pushback from ff and kk, although they never really got to talk about the more 'sensitive' issues...

I don't agree with him much but fair play for doing this, one of the more interesting & nuanced voices on Twitter

The Nazis were not conservatives. Read Rainer Zitelmann on that. And others.

Its interesting to watch Novarra in the UK, the Young Turks in the US both stepping aside from the identatarian lunacy Neither would have done that 2 years ago

Pretty good interview. Aaron's take on the gender pay gap is terrible. He talks about nuance throughout the interview but he has none on that. He mentions a bank with 30% gender pay gap then says that they should pay the same hourly rate. How does he know that they don't? Gender pay gap has nothing to do with same job same pay. He should practice what he preaches and look at the nuance. There are so many factors that play into the gender pay gap. Its not a genuine issue.

I love when Marxist equate Nazis with conservatives. It's truly an incredible mental exercise. I've always wondered how they are able to distance themselves from the national socialist and keep a straight face

At least he came in good faith, which honours him, but he is mostly wrong about South America, probably because he's more oriented towards an "anglo-saxon" audience and doesn't follow South America as much. I live in Spain, there's a lot of people from South America here and I can tell you, the people there vote for socialism, no military coups needed. How did Lula, Boric, Castillo, Amlo, the Kirschner in Argentina come to power? The answer is democratically. And they always claim their example is the Scandinavian social democracies, not the USSR, so this claim that the US "just won't allow" social democracy in South America is just false. And ultimately, what difference does it make if the socialism that destroyed your country came to power democratically or not, the fact remains the same: it still doesn't work.

Really enjoyed the interview. Totally agree the free market can be rigged by people or levered by technology to disenfranchise the working class. Aaron's land tax bit was excellent and shows a thinker capable of pragmatic policies rather that idealism. Career in politics ? Call me a luddite, but I've always thought that the profits of technology should be shared. With most jobs being replaced by AI and robots this necessitates a way of life, politics and infrastructure that shares the benefits of technology. We can embrace some of the convenience of online shopping but need to maintain local distribution networks particularly of food in case the power gets turned off. It's worrying enough that most of the food the UK consumes comes across the channel. So I think the goals for a future society (Schwab and his techno-nonsense aside), should also be to harden society against a tech outage by retaining a percentage of human jobs in key areas. I think 100% reliance on technology is both stupid and naiive. We a living in an age when a nuclear EMP or any number of natural disasters would immediately require humanity to revert to 0 AD styles of living. That farming is increasingly outsourced is just another example of the elite getting control of the workers they want to extract value from. 30 years ago I used to think that communism could be done well if only we had computers to micro-manage everything. And now I know we need to let 'free markets' design, run and produce food, goods and services just in case the power goes off. The use of computers should be limited to tax / guide those free markets into being productive rather that cash cows for 'elites'. Right now the overwhelming signal would be to use government leverage to use town centre business property to provide accommodation. Oh right, Aaron already covered that with land tax. I have to say that both Marxism and Capitalism are islands in the middle of nowhere when it comes to socio-economic policy in the face of technology. Feudalism or Exponential Energy Wastage are not answers. I think people are ready for a new political message.

The Marxist avoided several questions. Would not even suggest a significant "Marxist" policy idea.

This is terrible. Just because you talk politely doesn’t mean you aren’t espousing absolute filth.

The one with the specs of Venezuelan extraction should have wiped the floor with Aaron over Chavez. But he subsequently got an easy ride.

Awesome conversation, respect to Bastani for not being afraid of difficult discussions.

I have liked Aaron since I read his book, Fully Automated Luxury Communism.

What I've taken from this is all the disagreement between left and right comes purely from misinformation and misunderstanding. Most of this debate was an agreement on issues and until we realise as a society that we all see the same issue then real discussions begin

Great content guys, nice to hear a balanced debate regardless of ideology. It would have been good if you had pressed Aaron on identity politics though, it would've been interesting if Aaron had been forced to define his position and see if it differs from his colleagues like Ash Sakar at Novara Media.

This is how political discourse should be in the UK. We're not the French or a theocracy. The opposition isn't the enemy. In the end, we are all human and likely want the same core things, family, security, health, a thriving society, and thriving world, human and natural. We simply differ in our opinion of how to get there. It's very refreshing to see, and look, a sprinkle of socialism isn't the worst thing. Healthcare, transport, water, housing, etc. We don't want to end up like the dystopia America has become. It's just a matter of how far it goes.

As a leftist myself, my opinion of Francis in particular has gone up significantly especially after the section where he explains his Venezuelan roots. Good to see such respectful listening and good faith enquiry across what seems to be a pretty big political divide.

"Democratic Socialism was not allowed in South America, so let's park that under the table..." Most countries in South America are democracies and most are socialist. Facts are important.

Bastani is one of the few leftist intellectuals who isn't obnoxious.