Yeah, but he's wrong. You can't make sweeping statements about the clone troopers by looking at fringe cases. Howzer may have been kind to the people of Ryloth and doing a decent job, but we see clearly that the majority of clones decide to stay with the Empire any way. The clones, bar some exceptions, were only heroes in the war due to Palpatine. Palpatine made the CIS evil, and thus by defeating the CIS, the clones would always be the lesser evil. This doesn't make public opinion of them good, it just means that people are willing to have them there instead of the battle droids. Heck, on Kashyyyk, it was the clones poor peace keeping that resulted in them attacking the Wookies, not Imperial orders.

@7 Indeed, one should not expect clones bred and trained for war, essentially 9 year olds in the bodies of 18 year olds, with limited to no life experience besides the little theory (about the galaxy they were to fight in) they were taught in their short lives, before spending the rest speeding between one battlefield after another with little time for respite. How could these clones be good peace keepers or understand the populations they were liberating/occupying? How could they be so restrained as to not go on murderous rampages in response to their brothers dying in attacks by the rebelling population, when all they know is war and violence. I'd bet only a few clones, particularly the commanders close to the jedi were able to learn and emulate the jedi ways, while the rest who only saw and communed with their fellow clone brothers would not learn anything other than the few brief interactions they would have with local populations. They would only be used to friendly populations happy to be recently liberated before they head off to another active battlefield. Only after the war would they stick around in one place long enough for resentment to build up enough for confrontations to regularly take place. Thus facing an unfriendly population would be something rather new to them and they'd be unprepared to deal with that. They would simply not be mentally equipped to handle a hostile population. Thus it's not all that surprising why the TK troopers would come in to be garrison troops, as they are regular people who would have much more intimate understanding of local populations. Further clones wouldn't make good detectives as they would be too inexperienced with real world life and too naive. So the clones as an occupation force is a recipe for disaster leading to only more and more violence.

@@apsoypike1956probably for the algorithm

He’s just a funny dude. Gotta love Alan

That Changed my friends mind one time

I always think of it like this: Stormtroopers/TK-Troopers/Shore Troopers/etcetera are like the standard Marine Corps Infantry (not Special Operations like Force Recon, Raiders, etc, which i liken more to, say, Death Troopers and/or Purge Troopers) and don't get me wrong, theyre VERY capable infantryman if used correctly and the individuals planning & executing a full-scale, all encompassing (involving all branches basically) campaign/invasion/operation/etcetera, understand their limitations and don't demand more than the average "Grunts" in the infantry are trained & equiped to handle. The reason i state it this way is because I think, in the US, a lot of us have this misnomer that the average Marine Corps units are equivalent/near equivalency to the "Tier 2" Army S.F. "Green Berets," or Army Rangers, Navy SEAL's, or any of the other SOCOM/Special Forces units of the other branches, and while I would definitely say the average Marine is more capable & closer to the "Specialized" units than the average Soldier, Airman, Sailor, etcetera, both individually and collectively, they definitely fall short of those more "elite" troops/units, and they should based on the training level & equipment the average Marine Corpsman has. The reason j say all this, is because I think the "propaganda" point you brought up is pretty close to my head canon as well when in comparison to the real world. Everybody expects the Stormtroopers to perform on the level of what the, for example, Death Troopers of their own era or the experienced, frontline, battle-hardened Clone Troopers of the previous era were/are capable of on average. Whereas, the average Stormtrooper hasn't seen any full fledged combat like the Clones did, nor have they engaged in high-intensity, Special Operation type clandestine/localized missions on a regular basis like the Death Troopers, Purge Troopers, ISB Operator-type Trooper classes/Soldiers, which would give them a totally unique set of skills & experience that training, no matter how long, high quality or extensive, can't fully prepare one for. As many of the small/minute and relatively larger details of skills & tactics (both large and small possibly being life & death) simply can't account for especially in a universe like SW where there's SOOOO many different environments, threatening beings & different weaponry, and their tactical/strategic variations, not to mention morality & ethics. Stormtroopers get a bad rap in my opinion, they would do a LOT better if they USED THE F'ING STOCKS on their E-11's though 😂. Edit: Does anyone know if the underfolding stock that the E-11 (and the Clones DC-whatever # of the same type) is actually a functioning stock that can be folded out & extended to provide a 3rd point of contact on the shoulder and a cheek weld? I know the real world British Sterling SMG that the E-11 is based on could be unfolded rather easily.

Classic clone trooper circlejerk

​@@lastmanstanding-xp3ub about the underfolding stock of the E-11 it is an underfolding stock you can see it used in andor where imperial army guards use the stock while wielding the E-11.

@@lastmanstanding-xp3ubI also think the idea that special operations forces are supersoldiers is greatly overstated in media. They are highly trained in specialized mission sets and better training in small unit tactics than the average infantry unit, but they can still be killed just as easily if caught in a bad situation (see Operation Red Wings or the Battle of Mogadishu)

@@antonalexander3795blame that on Disney, every media except rogue one show the stormtroopers incompetent

Same🤣

How can there be a show if the protagonists are killed by random stormtroopers? It’s plot armor.

⁠@@marcolopriore875actually, you bring up a fair point. There’s a certain unceremonious feeling to deaths caused by something so basic as a common footsoldier. Not that they have no place in Star Wars; there are of course skillfully crafted scenes where characters died to B1s or TKs. But like any death in fiction, too many deaths to the same thing can get bland after enough time. And if Stormtroopers were deadly, deaths could start looking a tad bit monotonous.

Because Filoni and his team dont take the Empire seriously. This kind of shitty writing is in The Mandalorian too

@@dancingvalkyrieexactly. And this show is really bad at this

@@marcolopriore875 Maybe dont write over 10 repetitive episodes about the protags infiltrating a base and escaping

Crosshair is a veteran. Of course he can fight without thinking about it. Cad Bane proved Clone Troopers could be as predictable as everyone else. Even mutants like the Bad Batch

And yet they'd still mop the floor with TK Troopers even if they were shinies

Crosshair: You merely adopted the violence. I was born in it, molded by it.

@@djcookie328 the Clone Troopers are organic droids. The TK Stormtroopers are really just peacekeepers. One was bred for war and the other trained to keep the peace

@@djcookie328 but if the theory is correct that we see a Clone rebellion this season, obviously the Stormtroopers defeat the Clones just through pure numbers. The Stormies defeated the Mandalorians after all

We deserved better writing

@@antonalexander3795Filoni seems to only rush plots now. Like he wants to go from A to B but no clue how to do that with decent writing

It is not cool It's even worse than FO trooper armor. That helmet is pure garbage

Stormtroopers are elite troops. They only miss against plot armor

@@stevenldoe7838 but it's the Imperial Army that I find more interesting than the Imperial Stormtroopers because at least with the Imperial Army they actually hit their targets compared to the Stormtroopers who always miss unfortunately Disney does have some bias against the Stormtrooper for some reason. I don't know ever since Andor I really actually liked the Imperial Army more than the Imperial Stormtroopers

@@jurassictyrantkingYT stormtroopers were ordered to miss on the death star by tarkin. Notice the rebels in the tantive 5 and hoth get blasted to shit. Bespin is just plot armor. Endor was an ambush

@@stevenldoe7838 true but I don't know if that was just added in just to make up for Stormtroopers missing on purpose or can't aim at all or that's just a supplement to make people take Stormtroopers seriously.

@@stevenldoe7838Endor was statistically certain to be an Imperial victory: All the main characters were captured, the Rebel Fleet was being picked apart by the Death Star and the Ewoks were about to get carpet bombed out of existence; the chain of command simply collapsed after Darth Vader’s betrayal, causing the Imperials to rout even though they were winning!

Yaknow, I think it was the clones (and Jedi) that made the clones popular on Ryloth. Especially on the slavery issues, the CIS and who they were made of probably weren't a very popular idea either.

How did you come to THAT conclusion?

@@GreenNinj4 Because of what the clones did on Kashyyyk.

@@tk-6967 That was the end of the war and because they were ordered to do it. I dont see how that one thing speaks against the clones when the whole empire treated every alien like shit, especially the officers that were human dudes and not clones.

@@GreenNinj4 no, the clones started the row with the wookies by themselves. Their orders never involved antagonising the wookies.

PDWs never really saw much use outside of SF since it was discovered that carbines could do the same job with only marginally more weight and simplified ammo supply chains, but you are right about the original M1 carbine. US military doctrine heavily emphasizes individual firepower, so the carbine fits nicely into the role of rear echelon self-defense weapon.

Fascinating, thanks for sharing.

The 1911 is a pistol. It's nowhere near as effective as a rifle carbine like the M1 was.

I love "for the empire"!

It's actually TK-FNG

And TK-421

I'm a big fan of the M1 Carbine but it really was made to be better than a pistol for those 'not shooting for a living.' (I can also see not making a blaster barrel longer than it needs to be for most blaster ranges. (In Star Wars I'm not sure muzzle velocity is really a thing even if most longer blasters appear to be more precise.)

Well, they used to be, now the Helldivers are clearly the most elite warriors in all of fiction, with their willingness to call in Orbital strikes on their own positions in order to further the relentless march of Managed Democracy

literal gods of war exist bruh wdym the most "deadly, elite and greatest warrior" even if we're talking military units, halo spartan2 s outclass every clone unit in everyway. space marines too. you could even argue spartan training from sparta outclass them in terms of brutality and preparing someone for war.

@@boopie6635 Agree to disagree. A Clone can even outmatch the ancient armies of the sith and jedi, according to records and wookiepedia

Space marines would annihilate clones lmao

No they aren't. Stormtroopers are elite shocktroopers

@@tk-6967I hate these clone fanboy comments

@@antonalexander3795 same lol

Clones literally were made for war what else can you expect.

@@antonalexander3795 Its the truth tho Clone troopers were simply better than stormtroopers They had a lot more training and a lot more thought put into there operational doctrine that the Stormtroopers did

there are in-universe reason, the red one is cheaper

I think that would still be far too soon

Yea that's too soon

TK armor was just recently brought into service in TBB. It’s still too early in the Imperial era for classic stormtrooper armor to appear.

they should use the trition squad armour from the force unleashed games it looks so much better compared to the tk armour

I agree, but now we have the TK armor and theres no going back. @@vector246

It wasn't until we get close to the original trilogy the stormtroopers became the new imperial army

It’s funny that you say, a mix of clone and storm trooper armor. In the PS3 Xbox 360, version of Star Wars the force unleashed during when you play Vader the first mission. The armor, the imperials, where are literally more in between clothes and storm trooper armor, especially relevant with the T visor

i wonder if the tk trooper armor is better than phase 2 armor since its a cancelled phase 3 clone armor.

I hate TK armor.

It was directly inspired by Ralph's early Stormtrooper design so that's why.

The M1 carbine was just that a carbine. It wasn't trying to replace a pistol. If you had to only be armed with one weapon, the M1 carbine is leagues better than a 1911(which is pretty average as pistols go) or any other pistol being a carbine. Pistols serve a much different role than carbines do. It's like saying the M4 was supposed to replace the Beretta because it's lighter than an M16a4.

Thats really just typical Filoni writing

You kind of see the stormtroopers preform pretty well in shows like Andor. It just takes a talented writer/director to know when to use the more elite stormtroopers in the right way.

They maybe the replacements but not better. Clones were meant to be the best, cloned from a top donor Jango Fett. Stormtroopers can be effective...but not to the level of CTs

Imperial logic 10/10

Because the empire wanted troopers on the Frontline immediately that they took shortcuts. I get war mantle was good at first but the empire eventually chose quantity over quality

@@tarden132 Indeed they did and was a decision that eventually backfired on them in respect of the outcome of the galactic civil war and their fight against the rebellion.

Really stupid question. The real question is why any clone would not be loyal to the empire when they have chips in their heads

@@antonalexander3795 because the chips ran out of juice. Which led to clones going back to their normal personalities pre order 66.

@@Jason_todd7 that’s just classic lazy Filoni writing. He will mess up the canon just to make his story work

@@antonalexander3795 No it’s not. Did you watch the clone war show? The main point of the show was that clones weren’t just mindless droids and had personalities. The Jedi made them more independent

@@Jason_todd7 yeah. And that show breaks the canon that was established in the prequels and in the comics. The clones weren’t meant to have personalities

Long answer Noo

Long answer? Your mom.

And fans still think they suck lol

So can stormtroopers

The Republic began the creation of the deathstar