Nah. Thats the point. It's more effective when people think it can destroy a star

Same here

My head canon is that much like how the IRL destroyer was a shortening of "Torpedo Boat Destroyer" the term Star Destroyer was the shortening of something else like "Star Cruiser Destroyer". In other words it's what we on Earth would call a battlecruiser, although in Star Wars a battlecruiser is an even larger vessel between an star destroyer and super star destroyer (dreadnought). Meanwhile a star cruiser is basically a fast battleship. If we imagine what would have happened if battleship designs on Earth continued a star cruiser is like an Iowa-class battleship compared to all previous battleships and a star destroyer is a surface combatant designed to defeat an Iowa-class.

​@@williammagoffin9324That makes much sense I think.

It's been a long time since I read it, so I don't remember where is was written. One thing, originally were only two Star Destroyers. The basic one and the Super Star Destroyer. Now, the name came from the capability to devastate (i.e. destroy) an entire planet. But 'Planet Destroyer' was not epic and scary enough for the people in charge, so they changed it to 'Star Destroyer'. The Star Destroyer was never meant to be a 'Destroyer Class' ship. It was always a battleship. It was meant to be just as much a symbol of terror as it was. So you were right about the Star Destroyer being capable to destroy a 'star' (i.e. planet) It's similar the way it was with the 'Omega Destroyer' in Babylon 5. It also isn't a destroyer, but also a battleship, but it was sold as the last ship the humans would ever need (the Omega) that can destroy everything. Of course in case of the Omega Destroyer that was a bit stupid, as they already knew that superior technology existed and would be developed in the future Spacedock had a good video about misnaming ships. Case in point in the Star Wars Expanded Universe the New Republic needed a new ship with the capabilities of a new type Star Destroyer. However, building a Star Destroyer would have brought a lot of down the public opinion. So they named the new ship, that would be superior to the old Star Destroyer, 'Star Defender'. Or take the HMS Dreadnought, a ship that for a short time was aptly named. Then it became the name for a class of ships, which was downgraded to the old class 'Battleship' when that type of ship became the new standard and had it's vulnerabilities discovered.

Words of a wise joke making Colonel (I think that was his rank at the time)

Jaffa blaststaff causes surface damage and burn marks on a hanging, thick stump of wood. To be honest, I thought it would've done more damage. Think SG-1 was demonstrating the P90 on full auto mode which tore apart the same stump.

@@entilzha1283 That was always rather absurd; staff blasts can and do demonstrate energy values in VAST excess of what modern firearms, nevermind a fucking P90, can ever hope to generate. They aren't practical weapons, no, and the point of the scene does stand and make sense, but the demonstration is nonsensical.

Unfortunately it is false statement. Most CIS ships were designed as cargo ships. Because of that they did not fallow Ruusan Reform limitations. And by extend were way larger and more advanced then most Defense Fleets, when corporations start arming them for self-defense. It is why install attacks of CIS was such shock. BUT Kuat used loophole in law to start construction of military Dreadnoughts, by not installing hyperdrive in them. This meant that only they have proper military tech when war started. Palpatine intentionally pushed only light Assault Ships like Acclimtaors and Venator class intended more for support. Holding more capable units in design. So after Order 66 he could easily sweep both CIS remnant and the Jedi. The issue with Imperial Class was that literally! Canonically! It WAS a Battleship! Or specifically it was modification of Tactor class Battlecruiser. Intended basically to overpower and hunt down Venators. But Tactor needed to have escort provided by Gladiator class as it didn't have a hangar. But war ended before there was actually need of using Tactor and Empire needed more Assault Ships instead. Then someone make interesting decision to put hangar in the Tactor, creating ISD. Even if it created massive venerability in the operations. Because ship was not designed with that in mind. Anyway, Empire did learn the lesson utilizing Quasar Fire Cruiser-Carriers in place of Gladiator. But it was simply too little too late.

@@TheRezro CIS ships were not larger nor more 'advanced' (whatever that even means), no, and in actual fact CIS ships, by dint of mostly being converted civilian ships, were hot garbage, meant to be spammed en-masse. Nor were ISDs introduced after Tectors; they were both introduced around the same time, nor did the hanger create any major vulnerabilities (well, beyond that presented by ANY hanger inherently).

Do you mean tie defender?

Well I’m pretty sure the new mantra of the imperial navy is Thrawn was right.

@@Dragone38CM Was about to say, the Tie Fighter was hot garbage, the Tie Defender would have changed the nature of dogfighting during the Galctic Civil War. Just having shields and not throwing away your pilots against superior air craft like the A and X wing would have made a massive difference. Though, the Empire sucked so glad they adapted slowly.

In a polity where even generals are in rebellion you want to give power to individual pilots. You will have magana carta on your ass before you can say k*ll th**r ch*ldr*n. Did you know x wing was actually developed by an imperial corporation (technically republican but they now owed their loyalty to empire).

That isn't completely accurate. Thrawn did not advicate for the Tie Fighter / Defender to be the backbone of the Imperial Navy. He advocated for a traditional navy. We don't really get to see much of this in media (and it sucks) but using the cannon books as reference points, Thrawn believed the Death Star was a complete and total waste of time, resources, and attention. He encouraged the Emperor to consider a more traditional navy, believing they needed to start by cycling out the Tie-Fighter with a new model more capable of engaging advanced fighters like the X-Wing and A-Wing. This is when he proposed the Tie-Defender. Which he was given permission to work on on Lothal. Based on the given context and the timeline, Thrawn's project was being worked on in tangent with the construction of the Death Star. We see an Episode in Rebels where Tarken informs Thrawn that Director Krinic was making headway with project Stardust. If I remember the episode right, this was right after a rebel mission caused a delay in the Tie-Defender production line that nearly got his project shut down. Anyway, point is, had Thrawn fully succeeded with the Tie-Defender, it would have eventually replaced the Tie-Fighter as the main line starfighter. From there, Thrawn could propose additional fleet adjustment projects and continue fleshing out the Imperial Navy. Based on the given and context info from given information, I think it is a good assumption that had Thrawn had more time, he would have seen to the complete overhaul of the Imperial Navy and maybe even could have prevented the defeat the Empire suffered in Return of the Jedi. Of course that is all in theory on the later portion but the main point still stands, the Tie Fighter was never intended to be a backbone to the Imperial Navy. Thrawn was just given permission to develop an upgraded fighter variant that would solve some of the navy's problems.

Lol that ship is basically destroyer sized, named a dreadnought, and classed as a cruiser

​@@PlasmaNode and used as a frigate

I actually don't find that too disconcerting from a real world perspective since dreadnaught isnt a ship classification but the name of a single british ship that got used several times over the centuries. From a star wars perspective though it makes no sense since dreadnaughts are a ship class...

Well their ships are made for space. So that already meshes with any classification

There were in fact Dreadnought cruisers in the real world. In real navies, "Dreadnought type" means "a ship with it's primary battery made up of a single size of gun and all or mostly all mounted along the centreline in turrets, and with turbine-based engines." It does *not* mean a battleship. And the engines part is very important. HMS Dreadnought herself, of course, was indeed a battleship, but as soon as the RN proved the idea worked on the *big* ships everyone started using it on the medium ships as well. All of the ships built to the new thinking were called "Dreadnoughts," which did lead to some confusion. If you read the debates in the Canadian Parliament of 1909 as they try to decide if we're going to cut the British a cheque for a battleship or build our own navy - and if the latter, what that will look like - you can see the various proposals include both a Dreadnought battle cruiser and a pair of Dreadnought Heavy Cruisers, and at least one MP clearly can't tell the difference between a Dreadnought Battleship and a Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser. Today we mostly associate the word with battleships, and thanks to things like Franz Joseph Designs "Star Fleet Technical Manual" and some other works, sci-fi tends to use the word in *place* of "battleship." But in 1910, a Boadicea-class cruiser was often referred to as a Dreadnought cruiser. So even if we want to demand that our space fantasy user real-world naval terminology, "dreadnought cruiser" has real-world precedent.

That's a good point.

That's not just a theory. It's fact. It says so in the novel "Darth Plagueis"

Partly true. Though the Darth Plagueis novel establishes that Palpatine contributed many ideas to the Grand Plan (Dooku's and Anakin's corruption, the proxy clone war, etc.).

I love a big spice chip.

Being a navigator on a big spice chip was my dad's dream job while he was alive.

Didn't Anakin kill all the experts during Order 66?

Didn't Anakin eat all the spice during order 66?

Space chip...Umm, I meant ship.

The empire always loose because that's how its written. In reality the empire would win due to shear nu,bers and resources. The Thrawn books show imperial forces being very effective.1

@@mattmanix5104 Thrawn was explicitly the exception, not the rule, everyone else was so inept it made their soldiers want to kill them themselves

STAR BLAZERS

Star Blazers had a lot of battleships. The Gamilons and Comet Empire had both Battleships and fleet Carriers. During the first season of Star Blazers, Earth only had one battleship left. So they turned it into a Battleship class Carrier.

A significant number of tanks also kept shorter guns due to their improved usability in street fighting.

the M4 Sherman was meant to be both a proper tank and an assault gun.

The detail about the high explosive shell is a misconception. The main reason we picked the 75mm M3 gun was, in 1941 when the tank was being designed the M3 gun was quite formidable by comparison to most other tank guns, and the powerful HE shell was considered a side benefit.

@@savag3l3m0ns8 On the Commonwealth side, the bulk of Shermans retained the 75mm because the HE round was used much more than the AP, and the 17-pounder's HE wasn't any better. So it just wasn't worth converting more than one tank per troop to Ic/Vc configuration.

@@Zach476 I suppose that depends on how you define "assault gun," but the usual definition is that it's an armoured vehicle with a limited traverse weapon optimised for low-velocity high-explosive rounds, and by that definition the Sherman is not an assault gun.

P.A.C.E. Primary Alternate Contingency Emergency

Moltke und Clausewitz approves.

You gotta have backups for your backups for your backups.

Eeyup, maybe do a compilation of republic vs imperial vehicles and weapons

Half that list has already been done

Especially those munitions

​@@PickleRick65bro really thinks nobody made a video about xwings yet

I personally expect an hour long PowerPoint on economics of galactic warfare.

More accuratly, is an Amphibious assault ship + Light Carrier + Battleship, it performs all the mission sets of thouse ships.

@@kennethferland5579 Well there are gators that have the flight decks and hangar space of a light carrier IRL so that isn't unusual. But yes there was never anything bigger than a 5" on a US anphib so nothing close to a battleship main battery; although there was a program to develop a 8" gun turret that could fit in the space of a Mk 42 5" mount. Never went beyond a single destroyer but in theory there could have been an anphib light carrier type ship with a heavy gun armament if it was ever felt necessary. Although I don't think a ISD actually fills the role of battleship (in that it is the largest combatant and not some specific combination of size, armor, and armament) in the Imperial Starfleet as there are mainline combatants larger than an ISD in the fleet.

It's like that US project that makes modernized the Iowa battleship to be a half-aircraft carrier or missile platform. But the problem is that the ship doesn't have enough planes to deploy and removing the big naval gun contradicts the use of battleships. So it's basically the Star Destroyer is the equivalent of that failed project.

​@@warhammer8867 Problem with IRL hybrid ships is, you can't afford to get your carrier into gun range. SW ships have shields and does not require flightdeck. It allows to a bit safer way to put all eggs into single basket. ISD is designed for multi year independent operations, capable of gun fight, fighter deplyment, planetary landing, orbital bombardment, chasing blocade runners. It's your by the book (star) cruiser. :D

I would argue that the ISD is a Jack of all trades warship. When used correctly, it had devastating firepower. It was equally good at just about everything. It did have some weaknesses, but so did every other type of ship in Star Wars. Name one type of combat vehicle in Star Wars that didn’t have some weakness! And in terms of drama, the point of the ISDs, SSDs, and Death Stars was to have the heroes overcome incredible odds! This video, while interesting, is wrong!

This. I'm super-duper pedenatic my own self but people who can't accept that some fictional settings have different meanings than the real world for common labels or jargon just get on my tits. The solution isn't to complain "a destroyer is supposed to be a small ship!" The solution is to go "okay, this is how it works, let's come up with a good reason for why."

I think the old lore of why 'star destroyer' was 'ships of this class were so powerful they could destroy solar systems on their own,' and thus the term 'star destroyer' was used on ships like the imperial class.

@@davidwooster2076 Yeah, but like a lot of the "old lore" - basically, shit that WEG made up - it really doesn't make any sense. Heck, just Han's line about how the entire fleet couldn't destroy an entire planet puts paid to that one.

@@davydatwood3158 Which is why I put them in quote marks, around the lore bit, but also at that time line the Imperial class was also 'newest and greatest' warship built, with Han's quote being on older designs. As older lore goes, the Imperial was a post clone wars design, with newer year putting it either mid or late clone wars, but never got numbers built until post clone wars. But in general, I do agree with stuff not making any or much sense.

I had to roll it back - it almost sounds like he's saying "N3"... Hard to tell.

And him saying the M10 was accepted because of the war in Ukraine, despite the program starting in 2018 😂

Yeah they have 60 turbo lasers and shoot 3. Just have people actually man the guns they don’t even have to aim. You can vaporize anything in the general vicinity. Not to mention the 60 ion cannons which could aim themselves and disable anything around them. I guess the targeting system sucks. Just set them to target what the 10 tractor beams hit. You don’t even have to aim those, they just work.

It’s pretty much jsut a set piece in modern Star wars

Until thrawn was the last one standing and knew how to use them. Mostly

Sort of but "Thrawn made it work" is pretty pointless. He made plenty of obsolete equipment obsolete.@@RAWDEAL064

naw, it makes perfect sense, you just have wrong ideas from dumb youtube influencers who read wookiepedia and regurgitate it for views

Monitors, basically mini battleships designed for defending ports and estuaries, maybe the occasional foray out into the littorals

@@mrvwbug4423 They are intended for Shore bombardment actually.

My Dad's friend in the navy used to run a little social bar on the monitor M33 in Portsmouth harbour drydock. Me and my sister would shun child labour laws and go on there and pour beer for the sailors quite often.

M4 Sherman not m3 that would be the lee or grant model stop gaps

​@@halo129830?

Having learned a lot about ship class names, particularly in the British/Uk and US navies, Corvette Class Light Frigate makes as much sense as many historical examples.

@@MonkeyJedi99 You did get the reference, right?

@@appo9357 Indeed.

Corvette class light frigate sounds like someone made an oversized corvette yet undersized light frigate and called it a day sent the plans to manufacturing for some poor captain go: "Dafuq I get stuck with the unstealthy stealth vessel".

@@xyreniaofcthrayn1195 The longer you bounce a design between admiralty, engineers and politicians, the stranger things will get.

God I fucking hate what KZfaq and the Internet has done to modern fandom's.

​@papapalps2415 God we don't care. No one asked.

@@NeiasaurusCreations Yes, I'm aware. That is the issue.

@@papapalps2415 Good glad we are in agreement a lack of care about your opinion.

@@NeiasaurusCreations Holy fuck you are assblasted, lul. Run away, little random. Go, shoo.

Star Destroyer has almost no point defense on top and 0 PDs on the bottom. The plot demanded that ISD's shields go down with 2 or 3 small missiles but mon cal ships are basically immune to fighters. ISD's foults have nothing to do with it being a battleship and everything to do with stupid designed and incompetent commanders plus plot armor.

True enough but one doesn't waste ANYTHING significant on a freighter or way Lighter ship UNLESS they're SUPER pissed off at whom is leading that ship an know for sure they are whom they look like. It's way too overkill for the situation in most cases.

@@Morri987the design isn’t even stupid, there are 60 turbo lasers and 60 ion cannons. Anything that is in the general vicinity of it is not existent. Moncals mc90 is even more heavily equipped. If there was a single ISD and a single MC90 within firing range of each other whatever is between the 2 ships will be completely flooded by laser beams. Those lasers would turn the ships into gas and the wall of lasers would continue until they burn out. Anything they come across? Evaporated as well.

@@holiday7068 What's better? A single volley of turbolasers which has the potential to cripple a MonCal or a giant extended firing battle of attrition? You can't convince me that the SD has the ability to destroy any big ships in a reasonable time frame. In every single book, comic, show, movie, the SD can fire on ships for minutes WELL below its weight class. Battleships had a lot of smaller guns which did anti aircraft dut but could also hit smaller boats, destroyers, etc. The ISD is like if you decided to make a ship just based on those guns. It's like a battleship with light cruiser level guns. In 40k once the shields are down a single broadside from even a cruiser will completely destroy a frigate or destroyer. You can be in a frigate and then get hit instantly by a lance weapon from huge distances whih cuts through your shields and cuts your ship in half. That's for cruisers. A true battleship could massively damage a cruiser in a single broadside with its level of firepower. Obviously you don't want to be in a space battle where your battleship is firing for a long time at an enemy. You want to focus on other things. Also, having guns in a huge area all over means ammunition or power supply is everywhere. It's better for battleships to have a few good guns because you need to protect the power supply/ammo. That's going to be one of the most heavily armoured/shielded parts of the ship. You can't have super armour everywhere. Let's also recognize the ISD real command center would be in the center of the ship and not on the obvious weakspot tower.

@@holiday7068 note that MC ships have firing arc issues so even MC90 is outgunned from the front not to mention MC80 that was more common and the only ones we see on screen? ISD outguns MC80 3:1, frontal showdown even worse due to firing arcs, ISD outguns even MC90 from the front lol

It's not even a mistake, it just doesn't adhere to modern English-language naval conventions. 150 years ago, no one would have known what the hell a dreadnought was supposed to be, before that, they wouldn't even know what a battleship was and they'd be rating it as a ship of the line with different classes based on how many gun decks it had.

I grew up like you expectung the Empire to attack someone They really needed to Lean into The invasion angle and never did in anything

well, tonnage creep has reached the point that the next generation of destroyers (at least from the UK and Japan) will have displacements in the same range as the first few designs of Dreadnought-era battleships/battlecruisers

Ehhh As of today, the Biggest and most Powerful ship on a Fleet would be the Carrier. The list would be like this: 1) Super Carrier: Nimitz, Ford, Charles de Gaul, Queen Elizabeth, and Fuijan 2) Aircraft Carrier: Kutznetsov, Liaoning, Shandong, Vikramaditia, Vikrant 3) Anphibious Assault Ship | Helicopter Destroyer | Strategic Projection Ship | Helicopter Carrier: Wasp, America, Huyga, Izumo, Juan Carlos I, Type 75, Mistral 4) Cruiser: Ticonderoga, Zumwalt -that thing is bigger than the Tico, it doesn't matter USA calls them Destroyer, they're Cruisers-, Kirov, Slava, Type 055 -Call Destroyer really a Cruiser-, Sejong the Great -Call Destroyer really a Cruiser- 5) Destroyer/Frigate (Not really any distinction between the classes in modern Navies): Arleigh Bruke, Daring, Horizon, Alvaro de Bazán Then we have LCS, Corvettes, Patrol Ships, missile boats, etc

@@franciscoramirez8588 Don't forget Submarines, some of which have a greater displacement than Cruisers.

Preach it, new cannon has turned one of the most powerful ships into a joke. I would saw few Imperial knew how to properly use an ISD in battle. Thrawn, Vader, and Pellaeon were the few who effectively used them. The problem was the ISD was meant to hold the line in a fleet battle, not fight small ships.

@@Amoschp524 It's not new cannon, the ISD had flaws, but they were not designed for Alliance tactics and equipment. They were specifically designed to subjugate and destroy planetary defenses. When an ISD appeared in low orbit, you knew your planet was lost. The ship that has probably suffered the most from New Canon is the B-Wing, which in Old Canon was as fast or faster than an X-Wing. The issue with B-Wings were their difficulty to fly, not their speed or agility. There was also maintenance issues with them and the X-wing, but the B-Wing was a beast until they decided to make them slow.

@@badonkeykong7506 What I mean in new cannon they get destroyed to easily and their strength is never shown. The ships seem to mostly be commanded by idiots. Like Rouge One, the two ISDs destroyed by the pushing attack only worked because the ships were far too close to what they were protecting and each other. Yes the Y-wings were effective but because of the positioning it became a disaster. At the end, Vader shows up in one ISD and wipes out most of the capital ships in one barrage that took advantage of the ISD's strengths. I acknowledge the flaws but the ISDs also had a lot of positive points and strengths in their designs. The main one being able to focus most of the fire power into the forward fire arc.

@@badonkeykong7506 Agree about the B-wing.

@@Amoschp524 I agree that it was tactical, jot the ship itself that was flawed, but the stupidity of Imperial officers was established at the Battle of Yavin and the Battle of Endor, particularly the Battle of Endor when the Alliance was able to cripple multiple ISD but also neutralize Super Star Destroyers, due to bad tavtics and too tight formations. It's space, there are no reasons for any of these ships to be that close together. But that's just convenient plot devices and a fundamental lack if understanding about space combat by the writers.

They're kind of battleship, kind of assault carrier, kind of office block. - edit: Meanwhile the Venator was definitely a carrier that unwise leaders USED as a battleship, and the Acclimators were LSTs (Landing Ship, Tank) that kept being used as cruisers.

ISDs aren't battleships in any sense of the word.

Which really kills the marketing for the Death Star's capabilities, huh?

I agree, but it was probably a shortened name of "Starship Destroyer" or "Capital Ship Destroyer" that is a starship.

From what I read on the wiki is that the term Star Destroyer refers to wedge(or dagger)shaped Capital Class ships, such as the ISD, the Venator and the Executor

​@@colekimball4945 the Death Star fell very short on that department due to a proton torpedo entering where the sun doesn't shine by the farmboy in an X-Wing.

Honestly, the most effective part of Imperial naval doctrine as far as fighting the Yuzzhan Vong is concerned is probably their focus on orbital bombardment. The enemy has no industrial capacity, and to build more they require a planetary surface to build it on. Deny them that, and you've won. It's just a matter of how long it takes, and how much gets destroyed in the process; and for Palpatine, the benefits of an external threat and the vast destruction of total war mean he will be in no hurry to end the threat.

​@@samueldimmock694 Exactly right. In a galaxy where Palpatine's Dark Empire had prevailed before the arrival of the Vong, I imagine the outer rim would have a distinct lack of habitable worlds/biomass.

And as soon as the rebel plot armor is used up.

You have done that to yourself! Your focus determines your reality.

and a superweapon too for blowing up fleets and or continents in one shot in fact the SBY's wave motion gun inspired the deathstar

To be fair, Japan's cruisers WERE torpedo boats. Kitakami had FORTY EIGHT tubes!

@@ShuRugal Torpedo Cruiser be like:

Or Izumo being something like a "helicopter destroyer."

Or Izumo being something like a "helicopter destroyer."

_Aviation_ Destroyer, now.

venator was also perfect for the republic. remember, those things shredded enemy ships and kept moving. they had massive carrier-style hangars. i'd take a venator over an ISD any day

The problem with battle carriers in application is the ability to do two ships jobs in a mediocre fashion instead of one job well. But Star Wars often defies sense, so... (shrug)

Realistically, they should just make pure carriers armed only with point defense weapons, escorted by destroyers with a heavy missile payload and more point defense. Just like how modern navies operate.