I honestly just think that more and more people are just falling into the group that just doesnt want to dedicate so much time to a video game anymore. Even if you play casually, you still have to dedicate alot of hours in order to get geared and make money for enchants. MMO's are just another job after you get off work.

17:20 As somebody who started with Warcraft 3 this was the biggest issue for me. I miss the more grounded mildly dark tone Warcraft had. Edit: I'm not bashing those that like the lighter tone of the current game. Enjoy what you enjoy, was just giving my 2 shmekcles. Also the furry debate. Centaur, Worgen, Tauren, etc never gave me furry vibes. Most of them were based off of mythological creatures of ancient tales such as werewolves, greek centaurs, and minotaur's. People associate them with furriers only because furry culture has become so popular any animal/humanoid hybrid character is used by that fandom.

At this stage WoW isn't an mmo, it's a collection of mini-games with an open world lobby. You sit in queue or LFG and do some busy work while waiting for queue to pop.

Gonna be real, dragonflight is neat in a lot of ways, but it's clear that the current team is just creatively not on the same page as from previous expansions like legion. There is such a departure in regards to tone, narrative depth, art style and the like that it's hard to really believe that this is the same universe where the orcs genocided the draeni, and built a road called the "Path of Glory" out of their bones. They seem to shun any nuance, and are really eager to distance themselves from the original tone and direction of the warcraft universe. Feels way too "everyone hold hands and be friends" and "everyone is vaaalid!!" Of course, warcraft was never a grim dark or ultra serious universe, it was really goofy in many ways, and was very clearly made by dudes who listened to ozzy osbourne and were raised on DnD haha. But that charm is gone. Feels like twitter is making this game now. That's just me though.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, we can never go back to the WoW bubble. Players that had played nothing but WoW until recent years have gone out and seen what else is out there. They have experienced different takes and ideas that other MMOs employ, things other games do better and things other games don't do as well. The standards for those players have changed irreversibly. For those players, WoW doesn't need to only be better than its previous bad expansion it also needs to be better than the alternatives that are out there competing for people's time.

"I think the new story is good" Says the guy who skipped most quest texts until max level 😂

Yes, EVERY WoW expansion should come with a free +30 Days.

The amount of cope regarding the wasted time for raids from some people is actually insane. Its like if you can watch your neighbor get into their car and go immediately while you have to hand crank your car for 5 minutes before you can try to drive away but think that your neighbor is a pussy for not "putting in the effort"

I think a lot of people found other MMO homes or finally put the genre behind them.

The art style difference hits the hardest, that new class doesnt feel warcraft at all

This is the first time in 13 years that I didn't bother buying the expansion. The last two expansions put me off. Enjoying other games like Elden Ring.

"hey, we made wow good this time, where is everyone?" (stares at blizzard) you know damn well why we left.

Look at the grit between Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos and Wrath of the Lich King. That's the WoW people love. Not the goofy stuff WoW has been pushing for years.

16:24 "They broke their WoW habit" This is huge for me. MMOs thrive on players logging in on regular schedules, as well as players who permanently online. But the vast majority of players have scheduled time to play an MMO. That's why a vast majority of guilds recruitment pool is limited by raid schedule. How often do you guys play, what hours do you play at, etc? While progression is nice as well, the vast majority of players schedule around their time on WoW. By making WoW such a bad game for so long, players got fed up. They have limited time to play as is, and now the game is worse so there is no need to schedule for it. You no longer want to spend your limited video game time on a video game that's not that great anymore. So instead you spend it on other time, and now it becomes mental inertia to even go back and play WoW again because why would you waste your time on it. It's a vicious cycle for Blizzard that myself and many other players got into, and this is the danger Blizzard had when they changed their metrics from how many players are subbed per month to how many engage with their content daily. You just lose the vast majority of players who can't commit to playing everyday, or who want to play other video games. And when they leave, all of the sudden guilds have a harder time running raids, bots become rampant due to lack of players reporting, towns feel emptier, etc. And what's worse than a declining player base in an MMO, a noticeably declining player base.

This is so true. I don't raid in wow because it's quarter an hour hour prep to get to the boss and if it's a wipe another 5-10 minutes whereas in other games it's a minute or less. I just do mythic + or pvp nowadays in wow.

The monetization in WoW is just insane: box price + subscription + microtransactions. They bill you for everything! That's a huge barrier of entry for new players, and also for retention.

The most annoying thing now is the support system. Trying to report an issue seems to just throw you on an automated loop that's nearly impossible being able to write a ticket

Every Expansion: "It will be better next xpack this is just a stepping stone..." -Asmongold

I tried DF about a month after release mainly due to Preach's video about how things were better since I try to be a more forgiving consumer that plays games when they're good and not when they're bad. The game just felt so empty with all attachment I had was gone so I logged off and uninstalled. I think the main takeaway is WoW won't just be naturally popular anymore and instead Blizzard will have to work for it but even then some people like myself are done. Its good the game hit this point though since now the game will only get better for the people who still want to play it now that they have to work for it.

To be honest, the more enjoyable content for me was I created a tauren and went through the WotLK zones leveling with the new tree. My fiance did the same, having never really paid attention to the talent options before since he came to WoW after the MoP talent changes.

There was a solid point about the amount of people you're trying to coordinate in raids. If he compared time to do 5 man content in WoW it'd be extremely similar prep time. One of his main complaints about Wow raiding was even people issues (no warlock to summon, Disconnects, people leaving mid raid, etc.) and those only multiply by how many people are in the group. Seems silly to say that it only accounts for 5% of the time bloat. All that to say he's absolutely right about wasted time in raiding anyways lol.

I have never been a raider in wow simply because it feels like a job to me. I joined a heroic raid guild in WoD and cleared blackrock foundry in 3 weeks, which was fun to an extent, but a lot of the time I felt like I didn't want to be in the raid because I wasn't doing it when I felt like it. I had to do it because I was committed to a schedule. This feeling made me quit this guild after only 3 weeks and I haven't raided since other than normal mode pugs or LFR. It doesn't help that these raiding sessions can go for 6+ hours depending on the circumstances. Even when I raid lead normal pugs it ends up taking hours to clear a few bosses sometimes because even if most people are patient and willing to learn the fights, there's always people that leave after wipes, then you have to find more people and summon them etc. It's just annoying and way too time consuming.

Im suprised anyone is still playing wow after shadowlands 🤡💩☠️

My problem with dragonflight was that to even continue the main story is to grind reputation

The popularity increase of FFXIV at Endwalker wasn't only due to Asmongold started playing the game, because Square Enix experienced server issues even before the second or third WoW refugee wave. Did Asmongold have an effect? Ofcourse he did. Did it cause SE to pull down the servers? Ofcourse not. SE has done a really good job with their ongoing game content releases, their expansion packs and their philosophies. They listen to their players and have a low threshold for changing content, introducing new things etc.

I haven't even looked at the raids yet in general. I've been taking this expansion slow and enjoying the content. It feels like they've put a lot more solo and small group content that I and most of my friends are enjoying.

Legion’s artefact weapons which were good because they were built on top of basic classes and specs caused all the artefact power bs they were the first but it worked because they were the first. Every subsequent version was taking away stuff to give it back. Which is why base classes with nothing but gear on top is the best design because you are always adding better stats.

They can say what they want to say, they can put out whatever roadmap they want to, this entire expansion will be a wait-and-watch for me. Most likely the next expansion too, because if this expansion does end up being good all the way through, are they capable of putting out two consecutive good expansions? The last time we had Mists, we got WoD after; the last time we had Legion, we got BFA after. I also don't trust them to not monetise the existing playerbase through the nose with shit like the 6-month sub mounts and other monetisation methods to make sure they keep getting as much money as they used to get when they had more players.

It will take Blizzard a long time to rebuild its reputation with players. One good expansion (don’t know for sure as I’m not playing it) after 2 bad expansions, plus the scandals and dramas, won’t bring anyone back immediately. If they keep up their current good will with the player base and make good content for the next 6-10 years, they will see a positive difference. This just comes down to trust. They broke the players trust and now they have to earn that back slowly. It won’t be a quick process.

Too many (bad) changes/decisions in WoW and Blizzard has burned too many bridges with their player base. I don’t expect WoW to do great at all. Greed and corruption has taken over and the company is on a trajectory course towards failure. They are riding on the coattails of those who originally made good products, kicked those people out, changed things and look at us expecting us to like it while they go, "do you not have phones?"

Have been off of WoW since cata and these videos still make me want to play , but between work/family makes it hard to put in the time (even if i had a decent pc to play on) to enjoy the game without having to leave in the middle of dungeons/raids or having to leave rated teams/teammates hanging cuz i gotta go deal with rl problems

i think personally the easiest solution is just to change how mythic and nhc and heroic works. so nhc and heroic should be as convinient as every mmo nowdays, no walking, rez at the boss, less trash, new people enter and spawn right where you are with your team and unlimited battle rezz's. and for mythic and world first they should just have you redo buffood and have limited rez. easy as that.

I think the term he was looking for was time sink. Like money sinks buts essentially just mechanics that exist only else to force you to spend more time logged into the game.

True...and Parse Culture makes raiding not fun as well.

I wonder how long farming "dragon power" was in the design phase until Shadowlands?

Back in the day I couldn't go an hour on any of my characters that was not in a guild without getting an invite. Now nothing and to add to that people are just sitting in the main dragon flight city making it lag city

As someone who started playing wow in 2006 and hasn't played retail since WoD, I just can't get into the game anymore. It feels and looks so different from what I remember and there's so much content and so many changes that it all feels overwhelming. That's why I like classic, personally.

I can tell it sold poorly just based on how many emails Blizz sends me to come back. They offered shadow lands for free, free trial, buy 6-12 months of time and get this free, and free time with purchase. Sounds rather desperate.

after the last few expensions ive given up and didnt buy it this time so im part of the problem of no sales and im probably not the only one

I missed out on getting to finish up Original Wrath… that on the heels of starting towards the end of TBC… When Classic announced they were releasing them again I knew that I was never gonna go back to retail until I got to thoroughly enjoy both of those releases.

They really need to start work on WoW 2 or another MMO (Starcraft/Diablo) because Riot MMO will kill WoW for sure. There is no way it's not.

As someone who hasn't played since Cata, I honestly I think WoW's entire formula of blazing through quests-> dungeons-> raids is just boring/repetitive. The reason I quit WoW is because it started to feel like a hamster wheel. They should seriously consider making a WoW2, or at the very least add more engaging activities outside of the typical progression. Also if they can somehow revive old raids and dungeons that would help the game world feel huge

Was doing LFR and we were all new, so we wiped on one boss. My first comment was "one thing I didn't miss during my years away was the run back". Someone responded that it was part of the experience. Yeah, a bad experience.

Wow biggest issue to me its the barrier of entrance, you need to pay massive amount of money for dlcs, and then a monthly subscription on top of that, its too much, I've tried for a bit but I wasn't interested to keep playing for too long and that's because I couldn't access alot of new content.

The thing about shadowlands that was terrible were the systems. But, the transmog and mounts were incredible but extremely time gated. Dragonflight in my mind was blizzard playing it safe. But after leveling a couple characters through legion with Chromie I learned something. They put WAY more work into legion. Even just walking through Aszuna and the different zones you could feel the passion behind it. Dragonflight is just meh but there are some positives (aka mythic plus is really fun). The raid though was hard, it took is 15 wipes before we killed Rasageth but when we did it was pretty cool. In retrospect though I still think there is alot of elitism in raiding and people are kind of pompous over the game. Also, Asmongold has a very solid point, blizzard is not doing quality of life changes. They need to cut the fat off the game and save us time.

I think one problem is the way You get gear, there should be múltiple ways of getting gear (mythic gear) sure should be difficult, but doable overall

Wows biggest competitors overall was the EverQuest series and guild wars..yeah there has always been new mmorpgs to come out city of hero’s/villains, Star Wars galaxies, concurrent ones like ultima and dark age of Camelot..but for a majority of its life cycle it had really no competition good ones came out like Final fantasy 11 but they where not successful enough that they would hurt wow player base. And now there is a decent amount of alternative options that are solid and some people find better. Its kinda understandable when your not the only person in town selling a quality product your sales are gonna start flattering

I have many friends who got SL at launch and regretted it. They didn't buy DF at launch. But half of those guys have got it now, that the reviews have been positive even into the first season. And the other half is considering buying it.

What a waste. They should have created two classes and not this BS. They should have created a gnome tinker class that makes use of mechs, and then a dark ranger class. Dark Ranger should have been a mix of Melee and Ranged, using similar magic to the Death Knight. It would align well since Hunters used to be Arcane magic. Also, tinkers would be alliance only and Dark Rangers would be Horde only.

Not bothering touching Dragonflight after how they handled Shadowlands. Will wait and see how it plays out in the long run and will maybe hop in next expansion.

It very well may be a "stepping stone expansion". No disagreement there but after playing the campaign and doing the normal normals to heroics to mythic+ to raid prep didn't even bother with VotI. I just paid full price for the frame of a car that doesn't have windows or speakers.

I bought 1 year around when the big murloc mount was announced. I only played for a couple of weeks if I count all those weekends I could play it 🙄 Nowadays playing GW2 in order to get the mounts. Flying and riding in GW2 is more accurate than what was shown in Dragonflight, and you can paint all the individual parts of the mount with more than 200 dyes.

This is actually the first wow expansion i havent bought, don’t think i plan on going back either. It’s kinda freeing in a way.

Bocchi the rock is such a good anime.

Man as a new player I started playing during late BFA and quit because I felt that I had to catch up on a lot of expansions for the cosmetics that I wanted, then I played during the release of shadowlands and enjoyed it at the start but not so much after castle nathria and ended up quitting again. I really wanna enjoy the game but I can’t get motivated to play the game. I usually leveled up characters through the legion campaign to have a feel for the classes and races and then quit. I don’t want to keep wasting money buying expansions and subscriptions so I won’t be buying dragonflight until I see some COOL AF GAME SHIT.

I got 4 mails for this expansions free trials, 2 times per wow-account, once at the start and another one for "last chance", even tough I have turned of all notifications and advertisments...they hurting bad

As someone that still decided to try the new expansion, Im actually struggling to see this fundamental shift towards accessibility, alt friendliness etc. Asmon is totally right about the state of raiding and thats the same as before, not even marginally better now. Hell, I even thought it was a good chance to main a character on the opposite faction just to realize that tons of individual progress remains with my old one...long, long way to properly cut the unneccesary time waste in this game.

After doing the same raid and same dungeons enough times I decided I was bored of WoW again. Edit: only 4 new dungeons when you think about mythic plus

I feel like showing the graphs at the end did not isolate any factor of downtime. Its a big generalization theyre multiple factors

I’ve been engaging with the world quests and professions since the start and haven’t joined a raid yet, they have much more side content now with the profession changes and I’m sure I’m not the only one who hasn’t stepped into a raid. So the data’s not perfect

It wouldn't be too difficult to hugely reduce the weight of logistics. - Add a TP at the entrance of the raid that bring you to the room of the last boss you wiped on - Do not remove food buffs upon death - 3 times less trash, but trash are stronger. - Make summoning stone (outside stone and warlock wardrobe) summon the whole party at once when used. - Keep the limit on battle resurrection, but let healers hardcast the whole 10s resurrection spell in combat. With a "freshly resurrected" debuff on the player that lowers damage by 10% for 60s.

Retail is a visually beautiful game with no soul. Kind of like a really hot chick with no personality I guess. You can have a lot of fun with them initially, but they aren’t probably going to keep you around quite as long as someone with an interesting and truly good character. Dragon flight was odd for me. I really wanted to like it, I went in with an open mind and just tried to vibe and have fun. There were some fun parts, the game looked really cool, all of the art was amazing, so props to that department, but idk man I really just can’t find myself being compelled to want to log in after hitting max. New raid looked kinda cool but, idk just don’t care. Somehow I actually find myself far far less inclined to play this expac than I did shadowlands, which surprised me. Disclosure that I am a classic Andy, but I played a fair bit of every expac up until this point regardless of how much I was enjoying classic. This is the first one that I have 0 plans of participating in.

My problem with wow is that there is no account wide fraction progres, I'm stuck with farming on one character even if I might want to play another one because of this... 😑

I went to a full server, expecting a que, no que, go into Stormwind, theres literally 1 person in the entire city, im like well fuck this im not gonna play where is everyone

I think a lot of us have grown up. People often change around 30-40 years old. I’m 39 and all of a sudden I’m changing lots of things about my life. Gaming isn’t a priority for me anymore. Still love Asmongold though!

My last expansion was Legion. I enjoyed that very much. I reinstalled wow like 6-7 months ago, made a new char and got bored after 20 min. Its feels old and simple now (never liked that simplified talent tree). I really envy the players who can still enjoy it.

For me , personally, my guild quit at the end of pandarias expansion. I also stopped playing then. How do I get back into it now? I've been gone for so long. I have no guild, no friends. No add-ons anymore. I would have to completely relearn the game, to be useful to a guild. Why not just wait for a new mmo to come out. And that's what I'm waiting for.

I started wow this expansion. I'm playing an Evoker and already have 10 mounts, level 61 so far doing the quests

For me it was just that WoW passed the critical point where even if it was completely free all the time I still wouldn't play it. It didn't feel fun and I wasn't invested, and my friends had left it. So giving me 30 free days to play something I didn't want to play wasn't much of a sell

Loved Legion, stuck out most of BfA and SL because of friends, but the handling of every Blizzard game shows that there is only one thing the people in charge care about. No matter how fun I've been told Dragonflight is (and I believe it!), I don't think Blizzard can do anything ever again to make me give them money. I love raiding but the game hates me, so that bridge is burnt. If enough devs resigned and started a new company (like Metzen), I could support that.

Agree on the timewasting for raids. Just let us respawn in front of the boss... But more than that, there are runes, oils, weapon sharpening tools, enchants, gems, food, phials, combat potions, healing potions, warlock stones... I know its all to facilitate the in game market and class diversity but come on... its too much. I've played for almost 2 decades and I sometimes can't keep track of all consumables.

To be honest with u I personally don’t mind raids being more complex but I understand why wow players feel frustrated with that. It’s honestly something me and a few friends had be discussing recently and it has to do a lot with the combat system in the game being dated. Example i played wildstar up to its end and it was a game with a really good combat system in my opinion and that is cause almost all classes could aoe interrupted without the need to tab threw mobs just to be able to interrupt one cast and there are much more examples I can give but I feel like this one is just more relevant to the issue at hand.

I'm not going back to WoW. I decided to learn a few musical instruments instead. It's a much more interesting and productive way to spend my time. I've got a headache just thinking of the time sink trying to do that second job. I don't even want to think about raiding. I enjoy watching Asmond occasionally.

WoW's free trial should be Chromie Time with the general trial restrictions and once you pick an expansion, you have to finish Chromie time on it.

The problem WoW has is that, compared to other mmo's, they don't really attract new players. Most ex players gave up allready or grew up and aren't really into gaming anymore. And for a new player, the game is actuallly a mess with a story that simply jumps all over the place so it is really hard to get invested in the story so most quit before they reach endgame. Actually to understand the story you need to read the books because the story is told so poorly ingame. And I understand most current wow players don't really care about the story and rush to endgame but this IS the experience that new players will have because they won't rush yet.

i can actually say that wow this new xpac took me a second to grasp it.. but dragonflight isnt no where near as bad as SL dragonflights lure and plots are good right now, theres alot of killing an power vs power at this moment, the colors are cool right now the tiers are nice the pvp could use a few touch ups like monk lol but overall DF is a solid release and im looking foward to the future

I got it, but I keep find only toxic guilds, because the good, wide-eyed, RPG players are all gone, and what we have left are grinders, alcoholics, and sociopaths.

I just returned to wow since bfa. I'm definitely finding the levelling zones very quiet and lonely. My old guild is still going but lucky to have 2 players logged on at one time.

Ngl i would be a lot happier if they make the new playable dragon race model closer to that of the Naga.

The raid conversation is agreeable. Raid groups should not feel different based on arbitrary mechanics like soul stoning healers and not releasing. When I played warlock it was not satisfying to soul stone a healer before every pull. At the same time it was even worse when I got flamed for not soul stoning a healer. Those type of mechanics are not engaging; it unpleasant if one does, extremely damned if one doesn't.

I was one of those people that didnt buy the expansion at launch. They need to understand how disappointed WoW players are with the company and their decisions and the only way they really see that data are sales and subs. We need to have at least 2 consecutive good expansions to know they're in the good path and regain the trust from the community or just the casual players in general (like me).

Blizzard treat WoW as a raiding simulator and neglect the WORLD aspect in World of Warcraft. They need to go back to their roots and create reasons for people to occupy the original continents. The novelty I knew WoW for appears to be all gone. There is no world aspect anymore! I wish they'd hurry the fuck up and return to doing the things that caused the game to hit 12 million subscribers.

I played dragonflight at launch and had some fun but then the ffxiv craving kicked in and I jump back, they're doing great things with dragonflight but ehh, after trying out ffxiv wow just feels bland to me outside of the new spyro style race courses (always a good thing love me some spyro).

It would also make a difference if you could recover an old account. I no longer have access to my old account, and I stopped playing before the battle net came out.

1. Covid restrictions are over, so most online game numbers are down. FFXIV also went through a massive drop. 2. WoW is an ancient MMO that revolves heavily around the end-game experience (as opposed to elder scrolls online or FFXIV where the questing experience is the main draw), its numbers are going to keep declining no matter how good it is.

This is the first expansion I didn't play and I've been playing the game since 2004 with over 1000 days played. Since WOD I start dropping off a lot but I always came back to play a new expansion.. Not this time.

I've been playing since 2008 with only a couple of breaks in-between. The last expansion i enjoyed was Dreanor believe it or not as almost all the expansions have been ok at the very best, Maybe MOP was also decent but I think Dragonflight has blown the rest out of the water. I fucking love it. I feel like an adventurer again rather than becoming the biggest bad ass in the game. If people who used to play and left came back to try Dragonflight I would say most would return for a couple of months at least.

I quit playing back i beleave it was Legion, when they got rid of the old talent system and made it like you can only use 1 talent spec to your character and only specific weapons to that spec. Put my Dk for instance, i used to play my DK in both Blood and frost mainly and had gear set built for how i was playing. I would play a blood/dps DK and duel-weild and i could also just blood tank. Then i would also do the same under my frost spec, i would run as frost/dps/tank or just go frost/tank or frost/dps. The way i used my macro had skills from all 3 talent trees. When they change that and got rid of the talent tree and made a new style talent system and changed some skills and made it were i could not play the way i enjoy i lost interest. When i check my other characters alot changed with them aswell. So i have not played since

Why should I buy another expansion? I still haven't seen anything I'm interested in. Don't give me dragons, give me epic sword battles.

Dragon flight actually brought me back having not played since Cata. Haven't bought it yet as I want to lvl to 60 first myself and then experience it. But it looks like one of the best in ages tbh.

a verry good expension but a playerbase thats not there anymore the only thing people do is log in do your dungeon and daily and log out no social aspect at all

my wife only found out about the mount twitch drop after it was too late to be able to watch enough twitch to get it

No1 likes childish dragon-riding thing and the new cringe race

I quitted retail 3 days in during the launch of WOD and never looked back. The problem for me is that, they kept adding the side system to the game just to make the game more than what it is. The game seemed less and less like the one I subscribed for with each expansion. I’m getting busier and busier when I’m online but somehow the world to me is getting hollower. And it’s not like I don’t want to learn new things, I played lots of games on the side. After classic came out I went back and enjoyed a lot, I actually tried to log onto retail. That’s when I felt that I became too detached from this game and it’s lore to continue. That’s why I didn’t come back for dragon flight.

9.1 is what did me in. I still enjoy following where the game has gone/is going, watching videos like this, but the disrespect for my time the WoW developers have shown me have eroded my trust in ways that might not be redeemable.

I want more character customization and transmogs. The available pool of armor models in the game are abysmal. I want to xmog gloves separately and I want to hide my pants.

Big factor with Dragonflight vs Shadowlands is one xpac launched during a global pandemic that kept a lot of people inside with nothing better to do.

I think the perfect example of trash packs being overly complex are Nokhud Offensive, Trash of First boss, power ups, stuns, interrupts, AoE damage/Cleave everywhere. 3rd boss trash, spirit mechanic, healing debuffs AoE Orbs, Volleys, Knockbacks, Last boss trash packs, multiple fears, multiple stuns. And this is all in one single trash pack without pulling extra and without the extra affixes from M+. I think in terms of raid, Normals are still way too overtuned or mechanically complex for the average player. Its what... week 3 or 4 now? and raids are only getting easier because of gear, not because players are getting more competent neccessarily. So how the raids are currently set up, it creates this culture of where raids only accept people based on ilvl to do higher dps to bypass mechanics and giving players lower in the ilvl bracket a harder time to get accepted into raids and with every new week, the requirements just get higher and higher so that people can breeze through raid. And Im not talking about 350 or 360s trying their luck to get into raid, Im talking about high 370s.

If Blizz just eliminated the run back on wipes I would take raiding seriously. And would it kill the game to have check point after every boss in M+? Just adjust timers to account for this. Is it really that hard blizz??

Yeah, to be honest, there are not that many people raiding or doing mythic plus. I remember even last xpack you used to scroll the queue for days.