I wonder if an "Asylum of the Cybermen" story could make more sense if the asylum didn't belong to the Cybermen. It could have been a planet where humans kept captured Cybermen from the war they hoped could one day be unconverted, but over the centuries the Cybermen have just gone insane as their emotional inhibitors have decayed

Man Asylum of the Daleks is SUCH a wasted story. I just dislike purely on what a waste it is.

My main issue was that they didn’t really act..insane. That and the divorce sub plot

What coulda been a creepy Dalek story was…well, crap. The damaged Daleks just don’t act that insane. Why not show examples of them being insane, like have Rory find a file on one that says a Dalek wiped out an entire planet’s species and then turned on its own forces, or a commander unit was so desperate to be pure that it murdered its own subordinates in a deranged fit thinking they were unclean. The examples you suggest are downright terrific. The use of classic props was so pitiful. If they’d kept them until the Intensive care scene then I’d be happy with that. Don’t just reuse the bronze bois! I love all the Oswin stuff but I hate the plot holes - like why can Rory and everyone else hear her as herself but 11 only realises she’s a Dalek when they meet.

A.O.T.D. could have been an intriguing tale of what makes a dalek itself. We could've seen weird units that: -do tantrums like children; -think they're just maids (Victory of the daleks style); -think that they know the future; -basically be a show host just for the sake of some comedy (let's not forget it's kinda a children's show, so a bit of comedy required). Or even we could've seen new weird designs that are here due to some unseen catastrophe with the Doctor (like they were some special unit that got WRECKED by the Doc). They could do so much more.

You've summarized pretty much everything I felt about this story. That intensive care scene was the biggest cock tease the fandom had during the Moffat era. It's a shame because there were some good ideas packed in there. At-least we got an apology via Series 9's Witches Familiar.

I would love a scene with damaged/experimented/crazed/insane cybermen. Like the failed Ripley clone scene from Aliens. Extreme gore and body horror.

I completely agree with your ideas for the daleks actually being more insane, that would've made the episode so much more unique and interesting. I also think it would've been good if Moffat had doubled down on the Paradigm Daleks and made the parliament solely run by them and kept the bronze and classic Daleks to the Asylum. The fact that one of the 60s Daleks was in the intensive care set but was never actually shown on screen was such a wasted opportunity. Considering that scene was an homage to the Daleks that survived the Doctor, even name dropping several locations from classic episodes, it really should've been classic Daleks. I hate the Dalek puppet thing as well. Like, Daleks have used humans and other creatures as slave labour in several episodes, and I can kinda forgive them being used as the way to lure in the Doctor and the Ponds, but having nanobots turn any alien intruders into "on-site security" seems off. Surely the Daleks would want it to just exterminate anything that isn't Dalek and wasn't the Asylum supposed to be impenetrable anyway so why would they need that level of protection from intruders? Also the eyestalk coming out of the head, whilst a chilling visual, seems a bit on the nose that someone is under Dalek control. They could've brought a version of the Robomen back! (Although maybe kids would've gotten them confused for Cybermen 🤷‍♂️)

I don't like The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar but I will say, it at least delivered on giving us some Classic Daleks. This is just a waste. Also fun fact, this was the first Doctor Who story that I recognised straightaway that I didn't like and it led me to develop my critical thinking.

I've heard the new big finish stories daleks victorious and victory of the doctor go some way to giving the paradigm daleks a story they deserved.

Omg I never thought of the idea of cybermen in a asylum great concept. The daleks swapping episodes is a great concept too. I feel like asylum and nightmare should have both been 2 parters too.

It's ironic how the most insane Dalek (Caan) isn't in the story about insane Daleks.

it would be interesting if fans did their own fan animations about what could have been done with the Asylum, since Character Options have given us enough dalek variants to pull it off

Wow. I didn’t realise that the Daleks are just normal Daleks and not ones that have appeared gone mad! Seeing one act like a child would have been soooo creepy!!!!

My mate came up with a series called The Asylum which was more a jokey parody inspired by the office of all things, but even then they were Daleks acting very undalek and nuts so still felt more genuine than what we got. I animated two of them as well and had a lot of fun coming up with fun ways to display their madness

Clara is my favorite companion, because she gives us hope that a lowly human may yet become a Dalek!

If Asylum of the Daleks was written by Russel T Davis, I bet he would do a better job.

Yeah... For a story about the all the Daleks history... It barely features them. What annoys me is that the BBC didn't just plan ahead, if I remember correctly they tried to keep it quiet which wasn't that smart. Just ask for fans if they've got anymore Daleks at an earlier date, I'm sure they'd be able to boast alot more classic Daleks if they did that...

Fascinating proposals. I think the idea of an Asylum works great visually for both villains, and I love your ideas for insane Daleks.

I agree with everything you said, especially the Dalek sobbing like a child, imagine Nick Briggs doing that. I am especially indignant over how prominently the Special Weapons Dalek was featured in promotional material and yet it did sweet FA. I mean imagine the degradation of the Abomination for a second, so twisted by its continual mutations that it tries to destroy everything and fires its cannon off at everything that gets too close. Like imagine if of all the Daleks, that was the one you didn’t want to wake up, and the only warning signs of the Special Weapons Dalek’s approach was the subsonic thump of explosions it’s making, like ominous heavy footfalls. The “eggs” scene is also especially dumb because Rory already knows Daleks say “exterminate” and while he has his dorky moments, he’s no fool. Mini gripe, I hate Nightmare in Silver because it literally turns the Cybermen into the Borg. Like, could we not do something a little more bloody original to up their power?

I said it perfectly before on a Community Post, so I’ll just quote myself. Imagine, you’re a 9 year old Dalek fan. You’ve found out there’s going to be an episode of the new series which will have Classic & Modern Daleks (with the marketing saying Every Dalek Ever). You get the Radio Times & see this epic poster showing the Dalek’s timeline & showing off photos from the episode with cool looking rusty Classic Daleks taking up the majority of the image. You see other posters too, with 11 walking away from an explosion engulfing Classic & Modern Daleks or the TARDIS Team in the broken eye of a Paradigm Dalek. You are so excited & can’t wait to see it! And than you finally watch it… You watch an episode which hardly focuses on the Daleks, instead focusing on Amy & Rory’s divorce (WHICH COMES OUT OF NOWHERE), introduces un-Dalek things like the Dalek Prime Minister & the Dalek Parliament, the Daleks (despite in their last proper story having only 5 units) suddenly have a massive empire again (which The Doctor doesn’t seem that phased by) which consists mainly of the old Bronze designs instead of the new Paradigm Daleks. And the thing that has been advertised so heavily & that you were so excited for, seeing Classic Daleks - ‘Every Dalek Ever’? On your first viewing, you can see a total of 3 Classic Daleks (the Special Weapons Dalek, an Emperor’s Guard & a 70s Dalek in the infirmary at the very end)…Yeah, this episode tore that 9 year old boys heart to bits & I have NEVER forgiven it! And it has only gotten worse as the years have gone by! Amy’s treatment of Rory, physically hitting him, is not cool! The fact that this was the story that brushed the Paradigm under the rug, sealing their legacy as a failure in Doctor Who! The wasted potential of a Dalek Asylum, which I have seen many fans tell amazing & creative stories with! The Daleks having an asylum because they can’t kill other Daleks because their evil is too beautiful to kill?! The introduction of The Dalek Puppets (which I have never liked, they fit the Daleks I feel). The fact that there were more Classic Daleks in the background which could’ve gotten the screen time we were promised, but were just hidden away in the corners (looking just like dark silhouettes rather than Daleks from the past)! The lack of actual Daleks for the majority of the story, it’s named after them! And The Daleks forgetting The Doctor at the end that goes nowhere! That one especially irks me especially as even tho I thought it was a silly idea, I thought it could have created possibly some interesting storylines, only for them to immediately solve it in the Daleks next appearance where they suddenly remember the Doctor again because they scanned Tasha Lem’s brain??? I hated that so much that I created my own story (which I still have the notes for somewhere) which would’ve focused on the Daleks not knowing The Doctor, giving us at least 1 story where they didn’t know who he was & than giving them a much better way for them to remember him (it was called Memory of the Daleks I believe)! I cannot stand this story! I hated it as a child & I hate it even more as an adult. The worst Dalek story (followed closely by Magician’s Apprentice/Witch’s Familiar). I’ve seen so many other reinterpretation & alternate versions of Asylum of the Daleks which sound much better, like what if the Asylum was actually a human experiment facility that was trying to reverse engineer & discover weaknesses of the Daleks that backfired or if instead of having Amy & Rory as the companions, replace them entirely with a Dalek that 11 is forced to be with by the Daleks to assist him in the asylum, forcing The Doctor to have a Dalek as a companion! There were so many possible ideas to base a Dalek Asylum on that would have been amazing, but instead we got what we got & a 9 year old’s excitement was squashed instead…

Strongly agreed, The only good thing about the story is the premise which is a good one and the rework of the Paradigm Daleks being metallic chrome painted and the skirt section being shorter and the eye actually fitting with the Dalek title.. But they still do nothing to add to the plot and just do nothing. While The Daleks in the asylum are just dead instead of insane which is a huge difference. One thing that angered me is that Oswin said that the intensive care are full of survivors from the Dead Planet, Power, Planet and Death to the Dalek episodes but only showcasing Time War Daleks! This is what I mean when I say Time War should NOT mix with Classic Daleks. Another thing is the ideology that the Daleks have grown far stronger in response to the Doctor which leaves me onto why they erased the memory of the Doctor altogether, Without the fear of the Doctor then WHERE ARE THEY NOW?!?! This is just why I think Asylum of the Daleks is the least good Dalek story of Modern Who (In my opinion)

I totally agree with you. There was so much I was looking forward to in this story, but is poor in retrospect. The "Oswin revealed as a Dalek is it's strongest moment, but what really "grinds my gears" about this story the way Amy and Rory were handled in this and in the following episodes, While I give lots of credit to Karen and Arthur for their hard work, they're respective characters did NOT deserve this treatment in Series 7. Nice use of Music from "Destroy All Humans" by the way, great video game.

I watched your video on the idea of a (literal) mad scientist Dalek and i think it would’ve been interesting to do, this episode could've had a subtle horror angle where we see Daleks that had their casings mutilated and maybe a few dalek mutants outside their casings leading to the reveal that the scientist dalek was trying to create a way to escape the asylum

I absolutely agree with you on all these points! Amy and Rory's divorce was _absolutely_ not a plotline that should've been included in an important Dalek story, and ESPECIALLY not one of the main subplots. We could've had more time exploring how the Paradigm Daleks have made their empire different from the old Dalek empires from before, and especially the various insane inmates. In fact I'd say this should be a 2-parter in order to give the concept of the Asylum time to breathe and even make some characters among the inmates. [warning: rant] As well as the examples within the video, which I think are perfectly chilling examples, you could really experiment with some Daleks by, for example, having a "1 in a million" Dalek like in the TV21 comics who wants to defend the beauty of nature and will kill anyone who harms its homegrown garden, or a Dalek who thinks it's an officer in the Kaled-Thal war, or any other interesting delusions. And you could even have Dalek officers or supremes becoming petty warlords as they try to carve out territory within this prison. In fact, you could even explore the whole Oswin plotline more by giving it a bit more setup and even possibly explain why the Parliament are only going to destroy it NOW. If I were to write it, I'd have the Dalek Time Controller there (if this story isn't set after Patient Zero), or at least have him be mentioned, to reveal that the Asylum was the site of a secret temporal experiment which could backfire now that the shield's faulty. Then, as the team goes through the Asylum, meeting a lot more deranged Daleks (most of them being in classic casings), they'd run into Daleks with a degree of fanatcism unseen even in most other Daleks, as if they're part of a cult, who try to take them for "purification". And, after meeting Oswin, who'll have been turned into a Dalek by this particular group of cultists, it's revealed that their leader is none other than the Dalek god-emperor, who was saved from atomisation by the Time Controller's experiment and had to be imprisoned in the Asylum not only because of his insanity and turning humans into Daleks but also because his power and influence were a threat to the Parliament and the Paradigm's own emperor. And now, thanks to Oswin, who he's converted to be a "prophet", he's about to lead a legion of insane Daleks out of there back into the universe.... But of course those are just my ideas and I understand if others would want to do it differently. Edit: And I also absolutely love the idea of Nightmare in Silver being replaced by a story giving the Paradigm Daleks a second chance. Those Daleks absolutely deserved better from Moffat.

I agree with you completely for this video. I love the Asylum of the Daleks as an idea on paper but the execution definitely leaves a lot to be desired. One thing i would have loved to have seen would be a Human factor Dalek perhaps Dalek Beta in the asylum since it would explain his disappearance from Doctor who Canon. I love your idea for the asylum to be adapted for the Cybermen. How I personally would make that story work for the Cybermen, is instead of it being an asylum, have it be a battleground with damaged or broken Cybermen, that’s programming has gone faulty and caused them to rise up and cause a revolution against the other Cybermen, causing a power struggle but also a reason for why the logic based cyborgs would fear these rogue Cybermen, forcing the Doctor to destroy these Cybermen before it spreads across the Cyber Race. I do love the idea of Nightmare in silver being Adapted for the paradigm Daleks but I’m also wondering how it would work. Great video as always. Keep calm and carry on Living the Geek Life 😎. Xx

Asylum and Nightmare make sense with the monsters they had, but I agree that at least Asylum suffered from not being as good as it could have been (just dropping the divorce subplot would have helped). As for the Paradigm, I consider the creation of the New Dalek Paradigm to be a wasted opportunity to either bring back underused classic designs like the Imperial or the Silver and Black Daleks, or to create a new design that wasn't as bad as the one they went with.

Loving the destroy all humans 2 music! Very fitting with the Daleks! 😂

The Special Weapons Dalek was renowned for its incredible firepower, able to obliterate other Daleks in one shot, and they could've had a moment to capture that glory in the new-Who era, like turning that firepower on the insane Daleks and having a legendary battle sequence. Instead, they just have it... there, like window dressing. It's totally inactive. At least the Series 9 reappearance made it light up and speak, but still, no big boom. Do they not have the budget?

I really hope in the future of Doctor Who we return to the Dalek Civil War and get to see the Paradigm Daleks again. They're not the best but they're story is definitely incomplete.

0:30 The weirdest thing is that - even though Asylum of the Daleks was marketed as having every Dalek ever - the older Dalek designs that appear in Series 9 are much more clearly visible and well lit than the ones in Asylum... also I'm annoyed that (as far as I can see) there are no Death to the Daleks designs as I think they're the most underrated Classic Who Dalek design.

Those sound like good ideas when it comes to the Daleks. And I agree the divorced subplot came out of nowhere and I thought it was a waste of time even when I was watching it. I like Asylum for the story potential and for Oswin, but you’re right it was a wasted opportunity. All right fanfic writers do your thing. Fix it! OBEY OBEY!

Is Asylum of the Daleks the worst Doctor Who episode? Probably not. But it is without question my least favorite. No other episode has left me feeling genuinely insulted the way this one did. The misleading marketing, the wasted potential, the clumsy character writing for Amy and Rory, and the frequent plotholes, I have all calmed down about over time. What still gets me fuming is the very end, where Moffat tries to erase all of the built up history between the Daleks and the Doctor for the sake of a literal joke; a 'doctor who' joke too, which I had already stopped finding funny long before this episode.

you pretty much hit the nail on the head regarding everything wrong in this episode, also people will tell you to watch Pond life to give more context about why Amy and Rory are filing for divorce, but even then it doesn't really explain it well and laughably ends on Rory walking out on Amy in complete silence, the actual reasoning in the episode is fucking stupid as well. The whole zombie Dalek puppet slave thing introduced in this episode is also stupid, I don't know why Moffat kept bringing them back

Imagine a Doctor Who Novel titled: "Tales of the Asylum", a compilation of short-stories of each Dalek in the Asylum and why they act and behave the way they do. Maybe a version of the Time Controller gets desperate and seeks reinforcements or genetic material to build his new army, but something stops it. Or, some remaining Humanized Daleks survived the events of Evil of the Daleks and are still child-like, yet they're deranged and wonder why the Doctor "abandoned" them, crying out for his name to "save" them from the dungeon. Or a lone medical operative Dalek is doing its best to "treat" the patients & giving up to the madness itself after taking on too much to handle, cackling madly as it tortures/punishes patients for being "fussy'. Hence why any attempt the Parliament makes to maintain the Asylum's upkeep would result in failure, so why bother? Honestly, the stories that could be told here are infinite.

Agree with most of this video. If they'd kept quiet about having classic Daleks, then spotting a handful of them in the background would have been a great treat, instead of an immense let down. I'll never fathom the intensive care scene decision to have all bronze Daleks. And whilst Moffat arguably redeemed himself by having some prominent classic models in TMA/WTF, frankly and ironically there was no good reason to have classic props in that story, whereas here it would have made total sense.

Steven Moffat wrote an episode where the inmates literally have the key to the asylum. And the inmates are allegedly the most dangerous things in the universe. Steven at your best you were brilliance refined, at your worst you're a make a wish kid in charge.

Yeah I used to like this episode until I realised how much better it could've been, as good as their acting is, Amy and Rory's soap opera bickering just makes me roll my eyes, the "insane" Daleks in the grimy dungeon act more like they're in a nursing home than an asylum and Oswin telling the Doctor that a bunch of bronze Daleks were on planets like Exxilon, Vulcan, Kembel and Aridius is just downright confusing

God I hate this story, but the aesthetic just calls my name. I love all things horror and creepy, and the Daleks and the asylum fit this theme so well, ESPECIALLY the classic ones, those ones look especially cool.

If there was an asylum of Cybermen, maybe it’s not a proper asylum, but if any cyberman shows emotion it’s deactivated then put onto this planet where they keep discarded Cybermen who got emotions, then one reactivates for some reason then reactivates the others and the Cybermen need the help of the doctor to stop the leader of the emotional Cybermen

Such an interesting ep. I've heard lots of positive & negative takes on it.

Heavily distracted by Destroy all Humans music

I personally would love another pure classic dalek episode where they have you use there steam weapons again

'Kay, but I'll fight anyone on saying that the Daleks we saw "weren't insane enough". What a human would consider "insane" in a stock-villain-Joker sense are all the qualities that make a REGULAR Dalek. We just saw the Doctor and the gang stumble on the clinical depression ward 😆. But yeah, pettiness aside, to write a good Dalek story, you have to CARE about Daleks. I never really got that sense from Moffat. There are some cool ideas, like you say, but they usually just sort of felt like props and foils for the Doctor and their friends, as do a lot of the antagonists and side characters in his stories. They suffer a lot from main character syndrome, ironically, which doesn't mean it's not brilliant where it's good, but does make it a bit wince-worthy elsewhere.

It is a very wasted episode, the divorce subplot does nothing but pad out time and there are so many things you could do with insane Daleks. Daleks whose conditioning is reverting, causing a sort of disassociative identity disorder as the Dalek personality and the personality of who that person used to be fight for control over the mutant, Daleks who kill other Daleks as they hate everything but themselves, Daleks who are trapped in memories of the wars that consign them there, like a constant PTSD flashback, screaming at the Doctor as they relive their defeat over and over, lost in a psychosis-induced rage.

The Sword of Orion featured an insane Cyberman, so it's not inconceivable. What would have made nore sense in this story is if Clara had been a battle computer.

I hate this episode not just for the lack of daleks but for the dalek conversion, the marketing, and the erasure of the paradigm. This episode is THE worst new who dalek episode hell the wedding of river song was a better dalek episode than this. While I agree that nightmare in silver as a dalek story (nightmare in red) would have been sick the mere mention of using the paradigm as officers instead of the drones ruins it. The spotlight should be on the paradigm instead of 500 bronze daleks and say that the paradigm are leading them.

Really would’ve been too chaotic in a sense.

All unfortunately excellent points on the missed opportunities of this episode. Though I'm surprised the chief error of causing all the Daleks to Forget who the doctor is on a whim was Utter nonsense and practically character assassination on a species wide level. And all to basically do nothing with that idea going forward.

It was more the outpatients of the Daleks than asylum, like you say that don't really act insane just damaged cases in most instances. The concept could have been brilliant but it was a wasted opportunity. I liked Oswin maybe they should have had more Daleks that were converted humans gone insane by their predicament and/or Daleks that questioned their orders and were banished to this Asylum and kept for study and experimentation. So many possibilities yet this rather waste of a good idea.

I wish I had something kind to say about AotD but it was just a disappointment to me. There are some fun scenes like Rory and the 'egg' but the whole thing feels like wasted potential which is a genuine shame.

The asylum was a stupid idea from the first. Daleks would just exterminate the insane and be done with it unless they were useful in some way (which, these Daleks aren't useful, they're just a liability). The idea of a Dalek asylum detracts from their sheer ruthlessness and is contradictory to their very nature, as is the idea of a Dalek Parliament (that one is even worse...) The only way I see a Dalek asylum working is if some other power than the Daleks kept them in there (maybe to experiment on them or something or try to see if Daleks can be redeemed) but then you'd basically just have "Dalek" all over again.

Asylum is probably the most wasted opportunity in Doctor Who ever tbh. And I don't know what they were thinking when they name specific classic series Dalek battles only to still use just bronze daleks

Each time we’ve been promised classic Daleks they’re always in the damn background and do nothing of note. At least magicians apprentice gave them some speaking parts. I’ve never understood why we have never gotten a Dalek story with a classic design even if it’s a one off appearance for an episode the classic Daleks could easily make an appearance since you know …. Time travel exists in doctor who. It makes no sense why we never get classic Daleks or cybermen (apart from the mondasian) like a story from the 70s takes place in 2500 yet in new who a story will take place in that time again and it will still be the same boring bronze daleks again. The return of mondasian cybermen for one story shows that it can work bringing back classic designs for one story. I just want the SWD to come back properly and not just be in the background. Also at least big finish is expanding the paradigm Daleks I just wish they could also come back for one episode to show the eternal

Been playing through Destroy All Humans 2, the music is very familiar.

Asylum...stupid idea from the point that Daleks that survived encounters with the Doctor. Example. Exillon, all Daleks were destroyed when Galloway blew up their ship with himself & the Daleks on board.

I agree with you that the Cybermen wouldn’t have an ‘asylum’ per se. Though I can see them keeping ‘insane’ cybermen around in an attempt to figure out what went wrong with them, in order to learn and prevent other cybermen from falling victim to whatever happened. Though once they’ve figured that out and if the cybermen was incurable, then they would dismantle them for functioning parts- and would logically check to make sure that nothing could ‘spread’ and so on.

My issue was the intensive care unit. Where the daleks survived the doctor where in mk6 travel machines and not mk 1 and 2 machines which was little upsetting also WE DONT CARE ABOUT THE MARRIAGE WE WANT DALEKS 😂❤

The cybermens raison detre in the new series is to preserve human life no matter the cost, they convert people to 'save' them, it would make more sense for the cybermen to keep damaged units out of their twisted sense of mercy as to destroy them would go against their 'morals' The daleks however prize their 'purity' above all else exterminating even the slightest deviation, though the dalek prime ministers mention of the daleks being 'beautiful' is a killer line it goes against the basic fundementals of the dalek race IE the paradigm daleks exterminating the children of davros

🐙

is this Destroy All humans music in the backgraound?

They should have used Skaro as the 'Asylum' after maybe every Dalek on the planet got blasted with Time Lord DNA. >.o

A good idea not well executed

My least favourite NuWho story, even all 3 Chibnall Dalek stories are better.