From suboptimal to sub optimal. I will see myself out.

I would have loved to see the frequency response when the 2 subs are placed in the corners.

This is the most "DAD" youtube page ever!! Love it!! Never miss a video!! Cant wait for more audio advice colabs!!! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!

i have a 2.2 system and had my setup Main-Sub-Amp-Sub-Main... i moved one of my subs from in board to the corner wall to the side... the improvement was significant, tighter, fuller and not as much gain needed... thank you

It was a hard lesson to learn that what looked good did not measure well. I decided to keep my nice looking symmetrical sub-center-sub front but added two more subs in the rear room corners. Flat response at every seat now!

Another Great Video Thanks. Opposite Corners Front and Rear gives me best response in my room by a long way. Ive pulled them away from the Corner a few feet when adjusting final set up.

Good video. I used the REW room simulator to find the general areas which would produce the best frequency response. Worked great and also reduced the bass decay time as well.

Awesome thank you!! I just tried this and it worked wonders for my setup. Very much appreciated.

Great video covering the bass-ics! 🔊

Theo! Great to hear from you man! I love seeing you on live streams too buddy you’re very insightful. I can’t tell you how many home theaters I’ve setup and calibrated where once I properly place the multi subs the client goes “Holy crap” even years ago when I added a MiniDSP HD to my 4 sub setup it was a moment of clarity.

Great video. It was refreshing to hear someone concede that there are a variety of practical concerns that most such videos do not address.

Optimizing sub placement is quite contrary to most people’s sense of symmetry whilst being paramount to auditory bliss. As proven in this video, it’s not the cost or quality of equipment so much as it is physics. Once subs are optimized into a virtual sub, it is imperative the other channels are phase aligned with it. Successfully accomplished, imaging and detail make one’s cinema room seem much larger because the sound is so big.

I ended up doing a lot of REW runs to find the best spots for my Loft system. While it is basically rectangular, the back is open to a 10,000+ cu ft open plan below it, and one side is open to a 40 ft long hallway. I ended up at roughly 1/4 and 3/4 on the uninterrupted side wall for the most even response at the 3 seat MLP couch. Unusual layouts just take more work to figure out, but it can be done.

Excellent points! Unfortunately the biggest hurdle I see is people not willing or able to invest the time and small cost to learn and use REW.

Great video; very well done! 😀👍

Separate areas of the room here, kind of kitty corner, two SVS SB3000 subs, works great for two channel.

Great Video ! Thanks 🙏 Greetings from Austria 🇦🇹 Europe

great informative video, keep them coming.

It's nice to have a normal cinema review that the average person can relate to. Nice one👍

My YAMAHA RX-A3070 has 2 separate subwoofer outs, I use monaural x2 configuration, whilst running a sound generator for LFE, I set the first of my 4 subs up into my listening position, then did at 3 different levels of height, the subwoofer crawl, first on my knee's and hand's, then on my knee's and finally standing up, taking note of best bass positioning, placed one sub at a time in the appropriate position, each sub then running in conjunction with listening position sub, subwoofer crawl each time until last sub in listening position had a place to live, determined by the last subwoofer crawl, out of the 4 subs only one is on the floor, two at waist height and the last one at chest height, I have a near perfect bass curve, my 4k dedicated atmos set up, is in an open plan living area, that is a big area, with no regular shape to it all, but I've made it work so well, THANKS to sites like this AUDIOHOLICS and a few others on KZfaq. 👏👏👏

Hi, thanks for the informative video. What about dual subs like the Kef KC62 which fire in two directions - presumably the corners are less than ideal? What it be the 1/4 and 3/4 then?

Theo is by far the most likeable and best presenter on the channel and he knows how to summarize the relevant info in under 15 minutes. He doesn't put the audience to sleep lecturing for over an hour when you can get the same points across in short time.

That asymmetrical configuration from the Denon setup image would really bug me.

I recently setup Mini DSP on my Dual SB3000 subs. I have of sub at the front near my left channel and one sub at the rear of the room at the opposite corner. The bass is so tight and clean compared to when I just had the subs on my avr. I highly recommend the minidsp. It was probably one the best bang (no pun intended) for my buck home theater investments.

Theo! Good seeing you. More Theo Gene!

Well done on this video guys. Interesting to hear your thoughts on 3 subs as well

I use a Rel 3D system with 5 subs connected over high level. Simply stellar but 💯 percent agree with multi sub!

Nice video Theo.

I have two MartinLogan 1100x subs in each corner. I ran the Yamaha YPAO but my subs were still out of balance. I considered purchasing acoustic panels but purchased the ML Perfect Bass Kit instead. The Perfect Bass Kit solved my problem and now my system sounds amazing. I cannot recommend the bass kit enough.

Overview videos like this are great for beginners (they helped me out when I was getting started a couple years ago) but I would also like to see some deeper dive videos. How about a video showing how to use MSO (Multi Sub Optimizer) to optimize seat to seat bass consistency? How about a video showing how to time align the subs to the other speakers (using REW maybe)?

I have powered LCR speakers with built in subwoofers in each. Should I add external subwoofers? Thank you!!!

Awesome video. I got to bookmark this for future tweaking, thanks!

Great video. Nice graded comics in the background.

Can do you a video changing distances in subwoofer setup to get batter bass ?

Thanks again for all your advice, using REW and taking the time to correctly setup duel subs has made a massive improvement in my room, was looking at upgrading the two SVS PB2000 Pros but now they are dialled in correctly I am thinking Holly ….. not sure I need any more bass Who am I kidding yes I need more Just have to wait till the 2000 pro price in New Zealand drops below $2500 per sub

I have a 12× 24 I'm deciding between jl gotham v2 and perlisten d215s any recommendations please? Thank you

I have one sub, a REL. It was horrible when placed in a corner, placed it in a more open position and it became awesome.

I have a very mixed use setup, 2.1 at the moment and looking for a sub upgrade. We do a lot of listening very off AXIS in the kitchen, I'm leaning towards a 2.2 setup in hopes that the sound will be much more even way off axis but I'm not sure if that's true to that extent.

Is placing in room : 2 of dual opposing subwoofers same as placing 2 of front loading subwoofers ? Thanks

With my front stage being crowded on the narrow wall, the best places for my 2 subs were on the right wall of the room; one just forward of the front stage and the second in the plane of the MLP couch. A lot of REW runs trying out possible locations made decisions easier. Another tip, when I did my REW measurements, I measured all 3 seats on the couch and looked at the average and individual readings for each location. Several of the locations had a better looking average curve than the final pick, but had a deep and sometimes wide null in the right seat location. I used a location where the average curve was less flat, but all 3 individuals looked close; that way later, when EQ was applied, all 3 seats were similarly improved.

What is the official Audioholics verdict on measuring subs with the oldschool Radioshack SPL? I've read that a sub reading of 72 is equivalent to 75. I did my measurement to 72db with both subs on, but should I measure them one at a time? Thanks!

Is it true that achieving an even decay time across the frequency spectrum is also relevant to achieving a natural and tight sub bass response? I’d like to learn more about the relationship between a flat response and decay time if that’s relevant.

Great vid ? When u have both in the front what should we set the phase at 1 at 0 and the other at 180??

Hey, Theo. I've downloaded the pink noise files. Which file do I play to level my speakers after running Audessey, and how do I play it in each of the 7.1 channels? Also, have you come across the timing issue that, some say, exists in Denon/Marantz receivers? The argument is that they used an incorrect speed of sound, and the distance measurement should be multiplied by .875 to adjust the timing. I'm not sure why that would change anything other than the overall delay, but I'm no expert. Any guidance? 🙏

Because sub-woofers are an extension of your main 2 stereo speakers, I have the subs mounted on top of 18 inch metal stands. The main 2 stereo speakers sit on top of the subs with a combination of metal and rubber conical feet. There is no vibration reaching the stereo speakers.

Does this advice apply the same for two channel stereo?

What about both behind Main Listening Position or diagonal?

In the video you mention that subs flanking the center can sometimes satisfy the 1/4 3/4 "rule" curious what is considered "narrow"?. My room is 18x12 and have pair of HSU 15in at the 1/4 and 3/4 spots along the front 12ft wall. LCR are identical PSA MT110s

My first audiohokicd KZfaq video watched, and it was great! I’ve been on the forum for years, and finally just getting a formal Home theater room set up after decades of having living room set ups. I have one massive subwoofer corner, loaded in the back right corner of the room, but it’s too localized and doesn’t seem even. I have a lesser ported sub that I can throw into the room, perhaps in the front 1/3 corner, on the inside of the right main tower. Thoughts?

Mini DSP for the WIN!

I’m a 2 channel man. A minimalist and a purest. My 2 subs are placed on the inside edge of my 2 floor standers. I appreciate that corner placement is ideal, but that is not an option for me. I purchased my subs at the sane time as my substantial floor standers, but they were delivered 8 weeks later. That afforded me the opportunity to get my floorstanders dialled in and allowed me to become familiar with their sonic signature an how they interacted with the room. My room is 21 feet long, 19 feet wide and 7.5 feet high with a 12 feet by 6 feet open plan kitchen making the room L-shaped. The floor is solid concrete topped with hard wood. The ceiling, which separates my ground floor apartment from the apartment above is solid concrete. My walls are plasterboard with one long wall being all window from 3 feet up. As you can doubtless gather, far from ideal. I have no room treatment other than a large plush rug, placed in front of and between my floorstanders. I don’t employ DSP or any other form of electronic or digital correction. I believe that room treatment can and will alter your room acoustics. Whether you prefer those alterations is a matter of personal preference and taste! Anyways, when my subs arrived it took a couple of months of trial and error and experimentation to get them dialled in to my liking. Their placement was non negotiable! However I did manage to achieve a full range, well balanced and pleasing musical reproduction. I don’t have the luxury of a separate listening room. My hifi has to fight for it’s right to be in our family lounge. A couple of months ago, I updated our 2 and 3 seater leather recliner sofas for smaller and lighter, 2 and 3 seater static fabric sofas. They killed the rooms ambiance. Made the listening experience, well, more intimate. It didn’t bode well with me, but I knew I’d have to learn to like this new intimate musical reproduction as the sofas were here for the foreseeable future. I then purchased a 3rd sub, a downfiring sub, which I placed centrally along the rear wall, behind my listening position and opposite my stereo subs. It did take some dialling in. This included readjusting my original subs, but the combination works. Do I have even bass distribution throughout my room? Well, the only measuring equipment I use is my ears, but the answer is no. However, at my listening position, where I do 99% of my attentive listening, the musical reproduction is superb, or should I say, suits my listening preference. I’m guessing that many of your subscribers are in a situation not unlike my own, far from ideal when it comes to placement of subs and lack of room correction. Be assured that with the right components and a little time, effort, trial and error and experimentation, it is perfectly feasible to achieve pleasing results. Enjoy the music.s

I have an open living room, behind my is the front door to the house and a hallway that leads into the kitchen, other living room, and main area. In front of me to the left is a giant opening for the dining area and patio , any ideas how I could find the best method

Got dual SB3000 and Denon AVR-X8500HA so no miniDSP needed i guess 😋

Great Solo video by Theo! Well supported information. Is it possible to smile any less though? 🤣

Good video

Based on this video I moved one sub to the corner and felt immediate improvements!!! Thanks I was struggling with nulls and could not EQ it out

those nulls in the sub center sub is NOT related to placement of the center channel... it's because when you separate LF sources, you introduce natural cancellation and comb filtering.

the problem with moving one sub to the corner and moving say the left main speaker in it will get in the way of the screen ... that is why most put the SUB , CENTER , SUB config because it fits under the screen , .. unless you have enough room to move the subs out and mains in more

great presentation to the overview of multi-sub! I've also seen stacking subwoofers being more and more popular, can this be the topic to discuss if it's actually beneficial?

What would happen if you had the subs under the sofa or where the sofa table is?

Is it true that placing speakers near room boundaries - and especially in corners - excites (more) room modes, which exacerbates the peaks and nulls, resulting in less even bass? And therefore avoiding boundaries and corners is more likely to result in a more even sound?

Is it okay to mix subwoofer models in a dual subwoofer setup? (Currently using one Klipsch R-120SW 12" and thinking of either getting the same model or the R112SW) Also my goal is to achieve more of a rumbling feel when i'm sitting on my furniture, will adding a second sub actually help with this?

Question: I have a 12" Paradigm ported sub. Want to add a 2nd sub, do I have to add another ported sub?

When placing subs in the corners should they be toed in and if so, how much?

Made this same mistake. Put subs where they looked best but it wasn't until I got a UMIK-1 that I realized how useless having two was with them there. Moved to opposing corners and it was like I got new subs then adding the miniDSP was the final touch.

Hey guys, I know you covered us in other videos but, this adussey room correction is really screwing up my sound. Is there anyway I can just reset and just do this manually.? I have prime center and satellite with a SB 1000. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

My Subs are placed outside my right and left main speakers about 12 ft apart I'm wondering if that's better than having them next to the center Channel

I read several articles where subwoofer should be closer to ear level like main speakers and the rest of the surround speakers. Not including vertical surround effect speakers like Dolby Atmos

The slight bit of increase in total output by moving one to the corner would be outweighed by the unbalance created and loss of symmetry in the sound stage.

I have a question regarding the ideal placement guidelines. It says corners or midpoint or 1/4 or 3/4 points. Forgive me if I’m missing something here but isn’t that then 1/4 (left corner) 2/4 (midpoint) 3/4 then 4/4 (right corner) so basically all points along the wall? Please enlighten me as to what I’m missing here. Love this channel and all your work 💪💪

If my dual subs are on side walls facing each other do I leave the phase at 0 on each?

What about multiple sub setup for two channel systems without bass management tools? And is it better to invest in a third sub or acoustic treatments?

i did dual Sub setup, Yamaha SW 300. They are next to the giant center Left and right speakers, only the centre speaker in the middle. The room is only 70 square meters, overkill, i love it, only on 40% max, but it can do 100 % without any distortions too.

10:05 for those who dont have such an AVR or want to spend money on a miniDSP, you can achieve the same by playing with the phase dial on the subs.👍

Can I do 2/4 & 4/4???

I've never cared about home theater and probably never really will. But 2 channel music is very important to me. What I've noticed is that each of the 2 subs really needs to be balance with the its nearest speaker. Each sid of the roob has different loading and room effect characteristics. Once this is done with both phase and levels, it's magical. Single subwoofer setups actually degrade what's potential. If your main speakers are crossed in at, say, 50Hz and you have a sub on one side of the room, well the speaker on the other side will never be in phase as well as the one closest to the sub. So many systems treat bass as a monaural source. But it just plain isn't. Simple soundstage arranges such as a bass player on the left, drummer on the right... etc, will all have audible and spacial cues that are much more realistic and impactful. It will seem like your room got wider and deeper.

Thanks for this! I used the two sub placement you recommend and it was an instant improvement. The bass sounds great. It fills the room and has fairly consistent output across the sub range

i've got the 1/4 - 3/4 on all walls and upper & lower corner bass walls 😆 this is fun tho

placement is everything

Just got my 2nd sub earlier this year. Now their recommending 4. Wife is definitely not going to go for that!

What software is used for those subwoofer frequency test screenshots

Hello Theo and Gene, I have two 12 inch subs with Marantz sr8015. At first had both subs up front at 1/4 and 3/4 but the moved one to the back left and increase in output and tightness. However when I turn the front sub off it does seem to reduce the sound quality or pressure which makes me want to stack both subs in back corner as that location seems to produce best output. I know I lose multi sub benefits but additional sub in different location doesn't seem to add to spl. Am I missing something?

nice

Ok. I will watch this.

I'm just curious what would happen if you ran each sub out of phase with the other. I have a smaller, narrow room and placement problems. To be honest I'm probably not what most of you would consider anything like an audiophile and I'm generally happy with my configuration so I'm just curious what running the subs counter-phased would do.

spouse approval 🥴👏👏 that's hilarious

That Background is Freaking Awesome Theo!!! NICE!!🔥

Your chart says "denon pure direct", which turns bass management off, and likely your sub-woofers not even getting any signals. Unless you use "lfe+main" mode, which is very tricky to get right, since bass goes to both mains and subs - so I think nulls you were getting could be due to your fancy receiver setup, not even related to subs placement.

3/4 placment for two subs? 3/4 would bepretty inward?

I thought it was straight forward to implement stereo bass with two subwoofers and two sub out on AV receiver. I was so wrong. I bought the second sub and just realise my AV receiver have two sub out with one independent :(.

Does the information in the above video only pertain to multi subwoofers receiving a split signal (parallel), that is the same signal for each each sub, or does it apply to discrete subwoofer outputs where each speaker receives an independent signal? Also, what is the deal of multiple subs receiving the exact same signal versus independent subs? Most people praise the benefits of having a multiple subwoofer setup, but some only praise it when all subs receive the same exact signal because it's the best way to fill your room with bass, and that discrete calibration does not work best, besides it being a huge pain in the rear to do properly. While the fans of multiple subwoofers with discrete, independent signals claim it is the best means for providing the entire range of LFE without any dips, or losses at certain frequency points. However, it is necessary to calibrate the subs properly, along with proper positioning dependent upon the listening environment factors. So what gives? I imagine it is all a matter of taste, but even in personal taste, does one method have an edge over the other? Which do most people prefer? Multiple subwoofers with a cloned signal, or with discrete signals? What do you prefer? (I received that answer at the conclusion of the video from your clarification, so ignore that question.) And how does each setup relate to the information you are providing in the above video??? I guess you can ignore all of my previous questions. However, my main question now is why you believe discrete outputs for subwoofers provide a superior sound . . . because some would beg to differ with that position? Have you already made a video addressing this issue?

my bass keeps pulverizing my Denons avr internals 🥴 they can't withstand vibration

Notes below 100 hz are omnidirectional. He would a subwoofer enhance imaging?

8:20 Magenta trance? What is that, some new subgenre of EDM?

If I place the subwoofer in the corner does it matter in which direction the face of the points?

Why would anyone want to put the bass between their left right and center channels? All that does is create more low end soundwaves between your left right and center channels which will distort the mix. Put them on the outside of your L/R speakers.

Talk to me about in wall sub placement? My brain says place them in wall behind seating??

What is a “null”?

What crossover would you recommend to use for subwoofers?

I'm planning a room with 4 SB2000s and I have 1/4, 3/4 available for placement on the front wall and both corners and 1/4, 3/4 on the back wall. Re the back wall, what would go better with the 1/4, 3/4 placement on the front wall? In the corners or match the front wall 1/4, 3/4 placement? I'll probably test both but would be curious if better performance of the options could be predicted.