The Ocean are great. Sometimes they get a little too far away from Neurosis and into more pure prog territory, but they always seem to bring it back to that base. And their lyrics are fantastic. Comparing the depths of the oceans to types of mental despair. Copernicus' crisis of faith upon his discovery of that the solar system is heliocentric. Lots of stuff relating human experiences to the geological ages of (pre)history. Just a really smart band. All these bands are lyrically very deep and very intelligent, but the things The Ocean come up with are next level stuff!

I'm genuinely shocked they didn't get even get mentioned.

They did near the end!

They were mentioned.

Best band

monument was my jam

The Metal Meltdown I think couple other bands here needed to be mentioned. Cult of Luna, Thrice, Coheed and Cambria and Baroness.

Deftones is to metal, what Radiohead is to rock. And Radiohead is not a post-rock band but I can imagine that post-rock bands are influenced by them.

@@Grimeyhoob isnt cult of luna doom metal?

@@m00rtin4 isn’t Opeth Swedish death metal with progressive cheese and chocolate? Stop uttering genres as if it’s some universally held truth

no

As mine. And other good bands like Minsk, Light Bearer, Rosetta, Thy Catafalque (if you wanna call it Post M.) ... Greetings from Bavaria

Erwann Maudez Absofuckinlutely

yeah I tried my best (especially for Amenra, the best live band on the planet), but there just weren't enough people.

Agreed

Pelican what a dumb name

Most classic era post metal tracks aren’t even that long… like 5-7 minutes is pretty typical for Isis tracks

Word Post metal is Eclectic and redefines what heavy music is, can and could be

Post Metal is related to Post Rock wich is an updated versión of Space Rock and Krautrock. So the Pink Floyd conection is spot on.

Pink Floyd's Echoes is about the Ocean

True.

Aaron Turner should just be up there on his own lol

neuroisis85 you listed 3 amazing bands that were not even mentioned especially since old man gloom and sumac are almost supergroups. I love mouth of the architect but they are sadly under appreciated.

Love Palms, Love Team Sleep, Love Crosses, Palms came up a bit in the chat

Yeah thought the same. Personally I could never get into Palms though... sounds good, but the compositions are just boring and unmemorable. Pretty disappointing :/

mooncountry1017 Russian Circles, Thrice, Baroness, Cult of Luna

This week! Tomorrow!

After all these years, my KZfaq comments have finally amounted to something.

Ben Lucas review UDO-steelhamer

Ufomammut are definitely not post metal. Awesome, but I'd call them something like doom/drone/stoner... similar to Buried At Sea but more typically psychedelic (reminiscient of 70's stuff, which is also not a post-metal thing at all imo). I'm mostly bummed Amenra weren't even mentioned (though Oathbreaker were! If you're gonna mention ANY CoR band in this thing you really should mention the flagship..!)

Not influential enough. Whilst I love those albums I don't see how they really added anything influential to the genre (maybe the usage of horns... but still...)

You might have a point but they've been around for as long as Pelican and almost as long as the others so who's to say they didn't influenced those bands too?

I think Callisto is worth a mention. I think Noir and True Nature Unfolds are pretty big albums in the genre. Might add Mouth of the Architect too. Time and Withering is classic too.

Don't forget Agalloch!

Luka Calle Peste Noire are politically loathsome but their music is fantastic. That being said, as you are probably well aware, they did go on to cover atmospheric black and blackgaze in later episodes, and DSBM has been on the docket for quite some time, so you did ultimately get your wish on that front.

It's on the list Brooks.

I'd definitely be keen for that. I've been saying for ages that 'grunge' is just a marketing label for bands from a particular region at a particular time, and that Alice In Chains, as just one example, is a hard rock band that just happened to be labeled as grunge. It'd be interesting, for example, to try to think of a band not from Seattle that fits the 'grunge' genre - when you try to do that you realise just how amorphous the category is. Maybe Bush? That's about it...

A lot of Grunge bands had ALBUMS that bordered on metal but not completely all of their work...EX: STP "Core", Alice In Chains "Dirt", Nirvana "Bleach", Soundgarden "Badmotorfinger" but then the rest of their albums aren't heavy enough to be considered "METAL"....

RXR Again, a lot of Grunge bands made ALBUMS that were heavy enough to called "metal" albums but not all their discography is heavy enough to make them proper metal bands and this includes AiC and Soundgarden and Melvins etc. Those guys are Hard Rock or Sludge Rock OVERALL.

Grunge is not a sound! it was a time and a place...a scene much like the Madchester scene in the UK in the early 90's the bands involved with the scene itself didn't sound alike...the big grunge bands are Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Smashing Pumpkins and Alice in Chains...but to label them all as Grunge would be to claim that they sound the same...which they just don't! Back to the whole Madchester thing I mentioned, the big bands of that scene were Stone Roses and the Happy Mondays...both big bands from Manchester in the UK who sound totally different, yet they were Madchester...it was a scene not a sound....I'd like to see a Grunge episode if we can acknowledge this that I have said and talk about where each Grunge band belongs genre-wise...an example would be Melvins being a Sludge Metal/Stoner Metal band by sound, but they are well known for being a "Grunge" band....Nirvana and Mudhoney would probably fit into Alternative Rock whereas for Soundgarden and Alice in Chains, their sounds are not Alt Rock at all!

Damn right

Robert OuttaMyndX Eh. The argument could be made.

I'd argue their last 2 are more Post than their first 2

I also used to see them as a post-rock band, but honestly they've always been pretty heavy. Enter was at least as heavy and almost anything consider metal (of almost any genre). After that they just became heavier (though sadly imo also more boring).

I think if this list would be revised again in 5 years, Cloudkicker would make the list. They do take into account the legacy of the bands and how influential they are, and I don't disagree. Cloudkicker is too "new" but Ben's influence is starting to poke around in newer bands. Also the fact that Cloudkicker is one guy doing everything could influence them to not call the project a "band" but I doubt it.

R Z ha ha, I can see that, "elevator metal" though I personally like a lot of it. For the most part though, it would be a pretty depressing elevator ride, wouldn't it? :-P

Just saw Alcest tonight. It was great \m/

The Electrocist Me too!

PilotAC would defhaven be in one of these categories??

Yeah I'd say Deafheaven would definitely fit into Post-Black or Blackgaze, though I have to say I've not really listened to them that much

I love Alcest! Would love to see them live sometime :)

If Sam wants to check out the genre the galliean satellites is the best album. Check it out. Get tow cd players or record players going for the full effect.

agreed! from there selftitled album till now they deffo have had similarities to post metal but for the most part their structures were catchy and mainstream! although their new album Gore I think is a lot more than just a mainstream album it's more adventurous and I'd say of all their albums it's the leans towards post metal the most, but still it is quite catchy at times...I think they definitely take inspiration from Isis who members of that band have done a project with Chino and I believe Steph takes a bit of inspiration from their sound also! the next Deftones album could be very interesting if things are put into the hands of Stephen Carpenter as more of a leader for their sound! haha I've yapped on a bit here, sorry!

If you're interested in further exploring the genre, I recommend for you to check out Neurosis, Isis, The Ocean Collective, Kayo Dot, Nero Di Marte, and Alcest.

Also Cult of Luna, especially loved last years Mariner record, as well as both Vertikal albums.

I mentioned Earth several times during the stream but they ignored it.

I think Earth is more drone metal than Post-metal

Yea, that's about right. It's like crossover or grindcore or sludge. They come out of Hardcore and/or Punk but turned into Metal. Like Melvins, Neurosis, Napalm Death, COC all started as Hardcore bands.

Sadly I have to agree. I do find bands making more evocative/interesting music than in metalcore though. I haven't heard an interesting metalcore band since about 2004.

Glass Cathedral is the most underrated album in the metal genre period and one of my top ten of all times and I'm old af

post black metal. Sam did mentioned at the end

We kind of did! That's why the magnet is put above the board. :-)

Good call on Year of No Light!

Awesome band, but I question how influential. Whilst their music is awesome, I'd say their sound is quite 'general' for the genre. Same as the awesome band Callisto.

Great show though, really enjoyed it and of course some things are always gonna be debatable. But you guys did a good job I think and I agree with at least the first half of the show haha!

Oathbreaker was mentioned but they believe it belongs in the Post Black Metal branch to which I agree. Post Metal stemmed from Sludge and early Pink Floyd to my ears (ex: Isis "In Fiction")

Yeah, Oathbreaker is certainly not a post metal band. But they are a Church of Ra band, which is 'lead' by Amenra, generally considered a post-metal band.

Ethan Gardner destroyers of all by ulcerate...

I was also thinking about Steven Wilson's work and Tides From Nebula, but thought they'd fit better into post-rock than post-metal.

Post metal, post rock...i think this genre is so vague because not even the bands themselves know. They just say post and then attach whatever they feel like at that moment.

My band is influenced a bit by stoner metal but mostly by post-metal bands and I'm leaning more and more to 'labelling' ourselves post-metal, purely because it seems to give people the most accurate idea of what to expect. That is the only reason, in writing our music we try not to purposefully stick to any genres and just make music that's interesting to us. Influences range from stoner to thrash to noise, post-rock and ambient, but still post-metal is the most fitting label (also because of its ambiguity).

I saw them open for Alcest 2 nights ago and to me they came off as Industrial Sludge Noise. Not a single guitar on stage. All pads, drum machines and keys. I dunno. It didn't seem metal, but it was heavy.

I would say that they're similar to how it is hard to categorize Devin Townsend. Post-Metal infers heavy instrumentation/vocals + complex(and/or) long song structures. Swans definitely came up with similar fundamental elements as Neurosis, mostly because they draw from the brutalist, bleak atmosphere from No Wave Post-Punk. Neurosis blends hardcore and metal to that element, while Swans incorporates no hardcore or metal(as far as I can perceive).

not way off at all.

Could've at least been mentioned. But yeah, kinda also in a genre of their own.

Swans is definitely one of the big influences to post metal, right up there with Godflesh, the Melvins, Helmet, etc

Hmm Swans are deffinetly an influence for some of the earlier Post-Metal groups, but they aren't really Post-Metal at all....Post-Metal is more like Isis, Neurosis, Pelican, Russian Circles, Amenra, Rosetta, Cult of Luna, Dirge, Subrosa, Humanfly, Latitudes.....(just to name a few hahaha).... it's best described as a combination of Post-Rock and Sludge Metal, but also includes elements of Progressive Metal, Psychedelic Rock, Shoe-Gaze, Drone and Ambient Music, although some Post-Metal bands choose not to add too much and keep it relatively minimal!