Can’t wait for Behringer to clone the Porsche 911 GT3 RS so I can finally afford one.

ive been producing for almost 30years, worked for several big manufacturers, owned everything from aturia to yamaha. ive owned moogs. ive owned behringer. anyone who can say they can guess between a Moog Model D and the Behringer Model D is lying. its makes me laugh to watch those moog elitist bash behringer gear. no one cares what made that sawtooth, they care if the music is good or not. debating the 'ethics' of cloning is pointless and childish. you have a synth, i have a synth - who givea a shit what synth was used on a song? i applaud behringer for bringing AFFORDABLE and QUALITY products to the market. (as my Moog Model D is in for second keybed repair.)

As an analog synth fan, and a Behringer fanboy, let me say this: if MOOG (or Sequential, or Roland, etc) was the only option for analog synths, I would own maybe one, simply due to price. But because Behringer is so freakin' affordable, I own half-a-dozen, and I know I'm not the only one. I think that makes the world a slightly more musical place as a result 😉

The music space is fun and expensive. Not everyone is flushed with cash. The focus on cloning is getting old. Behringer does nothing financially or physically to harm a Moog owner. Only emotionally. If a product allows someone to enter the space and have fun, I’m all for that versus the mess we see in our daily newsfeed. When we pump the brakes on worrying what others use and throttle our gas pedal of what we have and enjoy, we can get back to doing what brought us into this space. Good points made in the video.

Behringer isn't quite like the example you give regarding Amazon, Walmart, etc. Behringer own the entire supply chain - from chip manufacturing, R&D, to the actual factories that make the equipment and even distribution is controlled by them by deciding who gets their products through their 'super partners'. This is part of the reason they can offer things so cheaply. Quite frankly, the Moog stuff isn't better built. It's made from very similar components and it's only 'assembled' in the USA. Their circuit boards aren't made in the US. They're printed in China just like everyone else's. Moog would like you to believe otherwise because they can charge more by saying 'made in the USA', but they simply assemble the various things at the plant in Ashville, NC. Sure, Moog's R&D, marketing, etc. is also US-based as well but their lower level employees were looking at unionizing very recently because of the level of pay their received versus the price of products. Moog use Chinese components - just like everyone else. The difference is, is that because it has a Moog badge on it with 'made in the USA' they charge a premium for their product. It's similar to designer clothing brands. Designer brands are made in the same factories as their cheaper competitors, but because it's 'designer' they can charge more for them. Moog isn't any different really. The build quality of the Behringer synth stuff is rock solid. I own a bunch of it and don't have a single complaint. It sounds great too. I think you're fooling yourself if you think because you paid more, that Moog's versions sound 'better' and are better built. Starsky Carr has a great comparison video up on here in between the DFAM and the Behringer version and they sound identical. Where I will agree with people in this whole debate regarding Behringer is the company's ethics. Personally I think they'd be better off building upon their Neutron line of semi-modular stuff than cloning these. Behringer is a much bigger company than Moog and can scale a lot easier and obviously provide them at a much cheaper price as a result. They've also gone after some people in public and it's been pretty tacky - like the whole cork sniffing debacle. I can understand if you don't want to support Behringer based upon ethics, but on sound and build quality alone you're fooling yourself...

I've just bought Moog DFAM & Subharmonicon. I don't feel like I've wasted my money. Perfect tool for synth jams.

These are excellent points i can see the passion in opinions and appreciate that

Having all the jacks on the right on the Moogs is much better

Having the patch on the right is much better, but I just use longer patch cables for the Crave... can't wait to get the Spice and Edge and rack all 3 side by side on a wall shelf! I love the colors.

Moog is Moog, is like a Fender to guitar and bass.

Vey cool narrative, thanks Tiger!

I have a mother and 2 DFAMS. I'm blown away by how good the Edge sounds. If I could go back in time, I'd have happily bought two Edges instead. Would happily have welcomed the MIDI functionality, instead of needing a Beatstep Pro to wrangle the DFAMs to do what I want.

A tiny proportion of these products end up in the hands of folk who actually making a day to day living out of using them. The rest of us are hobbyists, aspiring stars and enthusiasts. And no matter how interesting, dull, exciting or colourful the kit is, it's consumer electronics. Behringer, Roland, Moog, and many others understand the consumer electronics market very well. As per previous posts, just like any other consumer market. Personally I have a budget for my hobby, and am happy that I have increasing choices of how to use it. My choices might be made on the basis of budget, ethics, beliefs or experience. Do I enjoy using my Erica and Moog kit more than a VST, or a Roland boutique, or a Behringer? Does it sound better? Is it more ergonomic, does it fit my workflow better? Or is it just a feeling? Does it inspire me more? Or do I feel more committed because I spent £600 instead of £200 on a piece of kit that does a similar job and produces a similar sound? Did I put more time and energy in to my Mother 32 than my Crave? It's a hugely subjective thing, hard to measure, and if it does the job for you at the time you're doing it and you can wave one hand in the air and feel good with your choice for your reasons then happy days, crack on, and have fun making music. I love that these channels exist on KZfaq; they open our eyes to what's out there, give us a taste of new choices and open up debates and discussion. Peace out people x.

I already have the Crave, Neutron, and K-2 . . . they work perfectly well, even have some features a bit beyond Moog, sound "close" enough for me. For the actual price of these items, it's a very reasonable option to consider.

Wich Epiphone Guitar in the Background is this? What Modell Number? Thanks! Bro ❤️

This whole Moog range looks like hipster bait. For 2k dollars you can get a 16 voice analogue poly from Sequential. And if I really wanted them, I'd take the cheaper Uli copies, have my fun and move on. I wish Moog designed a polyphonic synth that does not cost as much as a car.

When I got my Crave I preordered it because it looked like an interesting original concept to me for a reasonable price. I love the synth, but it was a bit of a bummer when I found out that it is just a clone of an existing, available product.

I own the sound studio 3 and am stoked that Behringer has come out with these. They can act as a gateway for exploring sound for folks. I plan to pick up the edge for the connectivity that the DFAM lacks and the peace of mind if I want to take it outside the studio to a friend's house. I would love to see Moog have a business model like Gibson and Epiphone, cheaper entry-level options, and the pro models made in Ashville but I don't think that would ever happen.

I refuse to pay the markup for a Moog, even at 30% off. Glad Behringer is making this. Anyone whose mad should realize it's not taking away significant business from Moog. People who want Moogs, don't settle for Behringer.

It's good that both exist and get supported. With one you support the innovation and with the other you support the competition which is important for fair consumer prices.

Behringer is literally a clone company. They basically have almost no original products. Even their original products are still based on other products. A lot of their clones are literally the exact same circuit as the real thing, sometimes only being modern versions of the components or a cheaper version. It honestly boggles my mind that people are upset by this or even surprised. I’m honestly surprised they haven’t released an oberheim clone of some sort especially since the new ob-8x came out. As for the weird colors, think back to literally every big release they have done. Every single one eventually comes out in multiple color options. There are multiple 2600 color options. Multiple color options for all the drum machines and desktop units. Now normal people can actually put together a cheap version of that monster “the mothership” that Lisa Bella Donna put together. When they released the system 15-55 modules in eurorack that let normal people use moog modular. When they released the Roland system 100 it let normal people feel like Hans zimmer with his house sized Roland 100 with more modules than even a retailer has for sale. This is nothing new. Look at guitars. Fender. Squire. Then you even have cheaper brands than squire who produce cloned strats, teles, jaguars, jazz masters, p/j basses, etc. normal people simply cannot afford to spend the price of a nice used car on an instrument. Normal people barely have 300 extra bucks in their account for emergencies.

Behringer needs to jump in the American pharmaceutical game and wreck it.

If only Behringer could clone de Buchla modules it would be FANTABULOUS!!!

Newbie here. Is the Moog Studio even for sale anymore? Don't see it listed anywhere. I understand you can buy the units individually.

I’m not sure why we are not all mad at MOOG for ripping us off for years…

How does the edge interact with the M32?

Open your mind man!! I own a Moog Micromoog and tons of Behringer stuff! I am happy that Behringer exists! Cause Moog their prices are exaggerated!!

Funny at First when I Purchased the Crave I didn't even know it was a Copy since they look totally different.... But I do love the USB and MIDI support on the Crave .. Would love a M-32 but the Price is out of My range !.. Would Love to see an Actual Teardown of Both Machines to see the Hardware difference !!

Finally I got the complete moog SS3 and I really enjoy it! But if I knew that a cheaper version is on its way I would have waited. But now I'm settled and have no intention of selling to get a cheaper version. But yeah, I would have liked to save that money... Thanks for the video

Moog and Roland should do like Fender and Gibson with Squire and Epiphone because there are many countries where it is impossible to buy their instruments: too expensive in Italy the average salary is 32,000 per year (so there are people like me who earn 20,000 per year). I could NEVER afford a set of Moogs. Well done Behringer filling a market niche

I'm Glad Berheriger didn't Purchace Moog, But they sure do own a few to reverse engineer.

At last, a non venomous, straight to the point, calm and collected viewpoint. Thumbs up. So far I have two Pro 1s :-)

Wouldnt it be great if they put they Spectravox into production?

Moog is an experience, as you put it You can’t really point at one thing and say “that’s what makes them more expensive” Because there’s not one “thing” It’s the intangibles, how they make you feel, how they inspire you to explore and make music. I once bought a boog, and while it sounded amazing, really quickly I felt it didn’t invite me or inspire me to make music, it was just a tool, but it wasn’t feeling like an actual music instrument Synths like the grandmother or subsequent 37, they feel like a grand piano feels in the sense that they’re inspiring and rewarding in ways that go far beyond just the sound and can’t be clearly defined. You feel the love of making music instruments that they put in, the special ingredient in the recipe that makes all the difference. Some of the behringer clones might have a bit of that too, but none I’ve tried did, except maybe a bit in the RD8, but I ended up selling it anyways. When it comes to moog, entry level ones didn’t necessarily have that either (looking at you, Sirin) But as soon as you get to the mid level moogs, you’ll start getting that full on moog experience And there’s no experience like that elsewhere that I’m aware of (granted I don’t have other high end analog synths like prophets or oberheim, I used to have a pro one that felt great and quirky in an ms20 kind of way)

STFU! That is something I'm quite interested in. I love my Moog for sure. But i would love another version of the subharmonicon.

Great, reasonable and fair! Well done!

Music is not for the rich only, poor people also deserve good machines in order to create good music .

I got the akai apc64 controller ideally for ableton but it's a cross between like a novation launchpad/arturia beatstep/push but it has 1 midi in 2 midi out and 8 cv channels and it has a standalone sequencer so you don't have to have it connected to a computer and I can control 8 channels and save the sequences as projects and later import them to ableton. The apc64 made it incredibly easy to use the moogs that don't have usb or midi connectivity. I use it to control dfam, subharmonicon, B Pro-1 and, B Nuetron (can't wait for the proton). Anybody looking for something to control their gear with I highly recommend checking out the akai apc64 (you do not need ableton to use it but like most controllers it comes with a lite version)

I wish they'd be clearer about the midi. The manual doesn't say much on the Edge. Doesn't even confirm it responds to Keyboard pitch and Velocity, which I take it does. If this is converted to CV, and direct into the synth engine, does it bypass the patchbay. The manual says the velocity and patch out of the patchbay comes from the sequencer. So if it's just the sequencer, does that mean the midi velocity can't be used in patches, or does it mean you still need to uses the inbuilt sequencer to modulate patchable velocity. For the Spice, will each oscillator be on a different mid channel? I'm a bit confused how you could replicate the submarnicom sequencer style sequences from a midi synth. Or will it be ow note priority. If it is bare minimum it just receives midi velocity and pitch, I think they are missing a trick here by not exploring the midi potential. I'm not expecting full mid (as they like to call it) but something that is tailored to the synths needs.

The Moog Studio 3 is on sale for $1,699 thru the end of June.

The Moog studio 3 cost me way more than I wanted to spend, but it makes me smile whenever I walk past it. Such an aura ❤ I love my Deepmind 12 it is a very special machine. Behr should do more of that collaborative synth design.

Nah, they’re better than the moogs. Thinner, sound identical, more features, smarter layout. Ugly front panel design, but indistinguishable. It sound exactly the same

Im interested to know about durability of conponents because they will inevitably need a service in future. Is 1 more likely to have issues and is 1 harder to repair?

Oversynth Overlays are great

Wich Epiphone Guitar you Use?

Well, the SPICE will be available in about 2 years from its announcement, as usual.

Behringer makes creating totally affordable and gives an awesome sound. Can't wait to get my hands on the Edge 😊

I have a crave and I think this fat sound is good for me, but Moog is amazing !!!

100% agree on your comments about the totality of the Moog brand. It’s an experience and that’s a part of what you pay for. Bespoke screwdriver, too. Thanks for kicking off some interesting discussion in the comments.

I don't like Behringer clones in general, but now that Moog has sold out, I feel like these are an exception. You make really good points about the layout and patchbay thay I never would have considered. Thanks for taking the time to explain things in detail

I bought my Moog units individually over a few months and probably paid around £1,600 or £1,700 plus the side panels. I don't care what behringer make but I'm not buying it or supporting them. Anyone who thinks I'm just upset because I spent more is wrong, I'm not upset and I'd buy Moog again. If you buy the behringer stuff, good luck and I hope you enjoy it.

Your head has butterfly wings :)

I can't wait for the Behringer spice, and then I'll probably call it a day for these modulars.

I have three Craves and going to buy also Edge and Spice. MIDI in/out/through is the killer feature in these devices. There are overlays and you can change knobs - so how these devices looks like is not important.

Interesting news. I have all three Moog synths, but I got them individually. I'm curious about the midi implementation of the Edge, but the manual doesn't say anything. If it responds to pitch that would be pretty cool, because it would make a pretty awesome bass synth. I also wonder about the longevity of the patch points since they don't have nuts.

I watched this video when it first came out and YT suggested it to me again, which is good because we’re about to find out weather Moog’s quality stays the same now that they’re no longer employee owned. I’m sure nothing will change, but I can see the big company that owns Moog now trying to raise the prices even more… who knows

have a DFAM and Sub37, Behringer products are intended to be used other way around, and not the same as the MOOG ones, from knob and a patch-bay, to the choice of the materials and colors, to a aluminum finish - all of that leaves impressions on artist choices when designing patern/sound , lastly two different formats - perhaps they yield similar results, but because of the creative process and overall feel when using them, end result is simply distinct one from another, not better - not worse, just different. There for these have a place of their own in the market. Also not everyone lives in the first world country and can afford expensive gear, bringing gear with similiar concept and making it more accessible to greater audience, price-wise is priceless ! Awesome and appealing video !!!

Moog said it. They looked at the price of their vintage gear and then decided to price themselves based on those. I'm glad their greed made their business model unviable. If we didn't have behringer, you'd still pay 300-500 for a 303 clone. CLONE. Or 3000-5000 for the real thing.

Behringer have improved immensely over the years. Ive got their Odyssey and as someone who owned a genuine MK3 Odyssey for 12 years Im very pleased with it. The £250 price tag amazes me with the build quality of the thing. Not sure I would buy anything else though. I had the Poly D and the 303 clone and both died within 6 months. Although Im sure Id be tempted if they cloned an EMS or a Jupiter 6. Still, if I had gear like this back in the day when I was seriously into making music I would have been overjoyed.

I'm wondering why Behringer does this...I mean, it would be super easy to improve on the Moog designs, implement some new features, place the knobs differently, and they could sell a better product than Moog for less. Instead they clone, and alienate people with this. Which is not smart at all from a business perspective. I'm getting the feeling that Uli at some point in his life has been ridiculed by Moog, Sequential and Arturia, and now he unpacks a giant middle finger. Like a child, because he can.

Experience

Great to hear this view from someone who invested in Moog, but recognizes some cannot do that and this is a way for them to get a taste of these joys. As for CV I/O on the top as mentioned they are meant to be set side by side. Perhaps the thinking was you would set something like their 280hp case "behind" them for eurorack expansion? Smells more like lawsuit avoidance to me...

I live outside the USA.my moog grandmother ended up costing me twice retail after fureardiabd customs and took months. I can have Behringers in three days at retail.

From Moog I will probably get the Subsequent 37 which is better for what I do. The low price of Behringher trio puts it in a category that I could get it just to explore new things.

Moog products sound great and there's something about the heritage. I will own one in the future, though it must be one that's built in Asheville. But, with 2 kids in college, a Model D will have to do for now.

Moog is just acquired by conglomerate inMusic, joining Akai and Alesis...

Beardinger! Awesome!

Your moog set up is beautiful. I can only afford behringer and love both of them

Also, i was always ok with the price for the sound studio. It was the fact i didn’t want all 3 and there was no option for the subharmonicon and the m32 only.

I’m planning on using the d ffam with spice..I really hope it sounds as good as the real thing as it sure doesn’t look as good

Great video brother!! I mean i cant wait for some side by sides. 🥷

i think Moog needed to sell to raise cash to sue the big B.

Oh good, they also cloned my favorite Subharmon. feature: The "No Way To Run External Sound Through The Filter." 🤡

I feel like Moog is the Apple Mac of synths for sure, you get the whole luxury experience. I get that. I just go my Crave yesterday it’s my first synth and it feels really good and sounds really good looking forward to getting the Edge. Maybe I save up for Moog one day 😂. Great video and points cheers 🍻

I would love a Moog, or the setup you have there. But I would need to use that money for other things sadly... For now.

why get upset, we are heading forward, i salute Behringer, 🙏😃🎹 they provide good synths for poor people to explore, that's love I think, all people deserves a synth regardless they are rich or poor. 🙏 For sharing❤️

The phenomenon of when a current product is almost-cloned like this reminds me a little of the appearance of Japanese cars in a market previously dominated by American and European manufacturers. They were basically making very effective, well-priced vehicles that were heavily influenced by the models that were selling best in those regions. They were able to get a good market share by doing this but also have never displaced the manufacturers of the cars they were imitating.

Sounds like you should've just waited and got an andromeda

I have the crave, and I might get the edge, but also I might one day come out the pocket for the real Moog. Behringer’s are gateway synths and will expand the market not undercut it.

Your missing the link

I have a Mother 32 and had a Crave. I was happy with the way that Crave sounded but the plastic buttons were really crappy in my opinion. The patch bay layout on the Crave was really unworkable for me.

I sold my DFAM exactly because of the lack of midi. It just became too much of a PITA to use for anything other than just farting around. I loved how it sounded though.

A special taste of humor😂😂😂 i like it🎉

Great and honest video. For a hobbyist like me, after sound, the knob-feel is also very important. I've never touched a Moog, but the Crave's knobs and switches actually felt way better than I expected beforehand. I would expect a Moog to have a flawless, buttery and consistent feel for the price premium. Can you confirm?

Yeah, my opinion is that it is basically 2 different markets. I have never heard, nor do i even expect to hear, of somone trading in all their Moog gear and canceling pre-orders so they can buy Behringer gear. I also can't see anyone trading in 12 Behringer synths to get a Moog. It's 2 different markets. I myself am a fan of both companies. I mostly have Behringer synths because it is what I can afford and I love having "vintage" synths that created so much of the music I grew up loving. I also own a Moog. It is my favorite synth. If there was a fire, it would be the one I grab first. Is that BECAUSE it cost more than any 2 of the others combined? Maybe 🤷 Just remember, the placeb effect is still an effect! When people think/feel that something is better because it is more expensive or rare, then it is. Thats how the brain works. To quote The Matrix "Your mind makes it real".

Moogs are *assembled* in the USA. The micro components that actually produce and modulate the sound are made in China. In the very same district as components for Korg, Behringer, and for other products such as washing machines, microwaves, etc. Analog music equipment is ancient technology. It's not sacred.

I think that the only good job that Berhinger did was to bring us back the mythical 808 and 909 drum machines, Looking for clones of current machines is out of place and only pursues sales, it's fine for those who don't raise the money but with a little more of effort maybe you can buy a Moog DFam or any other from the rack and enjoy it more, I'm not sure but the movement of the knobs and the sound is possibly deeper than using a Beringher toy

I think there are moral issues. And one might discuss development costs. On the other had: I have synths as a hobby, spending a certain amount of time playing them at home. I don't gig, I don't really record, I don't make any money with it. I only have limited space. And limited budget. I found the subharmonicon enormously intrigueing. but also knew (or understood from in-depth) reviews I'd never use it as a main synth or play it a lot, so I quickly was at peace with never owning one. Same holds for Moogs over 1500 bucks. This Beringer offers me the opportunity to lay my hands on one given budget, time etc. I think, therefore, that this Behringer hardly will hurt Moogs sales. Likewise I think any serious musician (gigging, recording) will buy a Moog in the end when she wants Moog sounds. I even dare to believe that Behringers will rise demand for Moogs. Their prices are so far apart they are (in) separate markets.

I’ve got the moog triad and a couple craves. The craves do not sound like a m32, they sound like a sequential with a ladder filter, not nearly as smooth. The edge I must admit sounds good, as it’s supposed to be a bit crunchy. I’ll be getting a couple of them, though I love my DFAM. Like the crave, I don’t believe the spice will sound like a Subharmonicon. All said, moog soundlab sounds noticeably better than behringer will, actually sounds like moog. DFAM is a drum synth that’s supposed to be played. It only needs clock. The people happy that the edge has midi as if that’s such a huge differentiation don’t get the DFAM at all.

I don't know if this has already been said but moog is assembled in USA the boards come from China already populated and soldered

I have a DFAM but I’m tempted to get an EDGE ALSO

I have just discovered your channel and I like how you present the information and the way you express your view on Behringer clones.. You have your opinion and freely share it but you try to maintain impartiality and you do not criticize those of us who buy Behringer equipment. I could never afford the pricier brand, classic synthesizers, but Behringer makes it possible. I have music in my brain that can only be expressed with those 70's analog sounds and Behringer prices allow me to finally put notes to keys and finish my masterpiece (at least a masterpiece to me) 😁

Is Moog still hand built in the USA now its been bought out? I'm pretty sure they got rid of all the staff and are moving the production to Asia. The Behringer units sound exactly the same and the build quality is excellent. I have owned both so I can say that from personal experience. So the question is are the Behringer units cheap or are the Moog units stupidly over priced because of the name? If they where £350 each no one would be bothered with the copies and they probably wouldn't have had to sell out to the dreaded "InMusic".

Speaking for myself, Behringer didn't poach me from Moog. As a synth noob, I won't spend $2k on a Moog. I will spend $199 though. And if I like this stuff, maybe I'll graduate to a Moog. Long term, this is good for the industry as a whole, including the premium brands. It's an entry point in the same way Epiphone and Squire are for guitarists.

Definitely shouldn't complain about lower price clones with an Epiphone Les Paul sitting behind you 👀

I'd rather pay the extra money for the real thing. The Moogs in this video aren't that expensive to being with.

Some guys want sexy looking synths. To me they're tools. If they look cool, thats a bonus, but sounding cool and being affordable is YUGE.

When buying a Moog, you’re not only funding a good product or a “better” experience. You’re actually rewarding a company that invests in research and innovation. DFAM and Subharmonicon are innovative synths. Which take time, effort and resources to develop. And the risk of selling a product for which there’s no market. Behringer is only reverse engineering an existing product and producing it cheaper. For the buyer it’s nice to have (cheaper) options. But if it puts businesses like Moog out of business, the industry will see less and less innovation.

Buy the behringers and some moog stickers, problem solved

I'm surprised the bundle for the dfam and mother 32 is 999.00 which includes the tier setup, the summimg mixer, etc. But if you buy the dfam and mother 32 separately, you pay 599.99 each, and don't get the tier set up, the summing mixer, etc. That's crazy! A bundle you save money and get extra stuff.