I'm not sure if he was in section 31, but he at least can be almost as pragmatic as they are.

Love the theory, but I don’t think he is section 31. Sisko had his own sense of right and wrong that allowed him to bend the rules to fit his needs and the larger needs of the federation as he saw them. I think he’d be opposed to a shadowy org like 31 on principle, however his own personal beliefs would still see him working towards similar goals as the org. They wouldn’t need to risk exposure by recruiting him, they could leave him to his own devices and he’d produce acceptable results without being folded into the loop.

Interesting theory. I could see S31 seeing Sisko as a key asset. Quietly pulling strings to ensure his actions aren't held up to much scrutiny. But an actual member, I don't see that. If he were, he wouldn't have had any issue with the Romulan Plot. Nor would he have beaten up Garak. An S31 member alienating a useful asset over righteous indignation? I don't think so!

Section 31 saw Sisko was better as an asset to move across the chessboard of Federation dominion war than as a recruit. Assests can be helped, used, burned and forgotten without raising attention.

The only one I really disagree with is Odo. Sisko wouldn't risk him like that.

I think section 31 sees everyone as a member to an extent: Bashir was straight up screaming he was gunna take them all down and 31 said “cute”, and used him to infiltrate the Romulans. The Romulan agent probably would have screamed the same thing if they knew 31 chose them. I’m convinced that Sisko wasn’t a black suited member, but saw 31 as a hammer that could be used, and 31 certainly saw him the same way. That or section 31 now has a Bajoran god in their ranks.

Alternate theory (ignoring more recent series'): Section 31 is just Starfleet Intelligence, no more or less. 'Section 31' is a fiction created specifically for dealing with Dr. Bashir. The attempt to recruit him is nothing of the sort. They already know from plenty of his previous actions that he is not someone who is going to 'play ball' when dirty work needs to be done. But given his position and his super-intelligence he is likely to notice underhanded things being done in conflict with the Dominion. They also know he is into 'spy' stories, so the lie of Section 31 is crafted to convince him that 'regular' Starfleet is innocent of the war crimes he notices which might otherwise cause him to resign his commission as a matter of conscience. 'Extreme Measures' is probably the best evidence for this as Bashir is able to cure Odo based on information taken from Sloane. But Sloane isn't a doctor or even a scientist. Sloane as an agent would know that the disease was created by Starfleet, but would he seriously have enough understanding of its development to be any use to Bashir? Of course not. Except that he was given that information explicitly for the purpose of passing it to Bashir after making a believable attempt to 'hide' the information. Starfleet wants Odo specifically cured in this incidence. Why? The rest of his race are dying. Once they are gone the Jem'hadar and Vorta will see Odo as their only living god. Odo can then, with 'help' from Starfleet, basically dismantle the dominion entirely. Within a few years the Jem'hadar would probably be extinct since they aren't built to last and no more would be produced. The existing Vorta would need some extensive deprogramming but could then continue as a 'normal' species with a bit of help. Unlike the Jem'hadar there are both male and female Vorta so reproduction the old fashioned way might still be possible for them. But all that might fail if Odo were to know that it was Starfleet, and not some shadow organization, that had engineered the destruction of his race.

Section 31 sometimes does ruthless, evil things. Sisko sometimes does ruthless, evil things. They might even sometimes each "work together" towards the same objectives. But that doesn't automatically confirm (or require) Sisko as part of Section 31. Sisko went rabid when one trusted officer (Eddington) "went rogue" and "betrayed the ideals of the Federation". So imagine his fury if he could identify an entire cabal of them.

_Sisko kills another Tuvix_ Sisko: "I will learn to live with it... because I can live with it. I can live with it. Computer: erase that entire personal log."

Sisko is closer to a Robert A. Heinlein character than a Gene Roddenberry one. I think its fantastic .

I wonder if Sisko was disappointed in Worfs decision to save Dax rather than complete his mission as he had his eye on him as potential recruit.

Okay, so, the thing that always, ALWAYS convinces me that Sisko is at least an ally of Section 31 is "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges". Because there is this honestly super suspicious talk Sisko has with Bashir. In which he convinces him that this is their chance to find out what Section 31 is doing. by pretending to work with Sloan, Bashir can find out and all that. I'm not convinced Sisko was an operative in earlier seasons, but this moment and this particular episode... I'm pretty certain. Sisko was morally insanely compromised during that time and very definitly in the mindset of 'we gotta do what we gotta do'. I definitly see him working with them. Would also make sense vis-a-vis admiral Ross being an ally. Maybe Sisko is even Ross' contact person...

I love this house of cards you've built and they're standing pretty strong, but as a member of 31 I can neither confirm nor deny Ben Sisko's involvement within our organization.

There’s just no way Sisko was section 31. This theory ignores aspects of Sisko’s personality while embracing others.

Wouldn't be suprised if captains are informed of section 31 just like the omega particle.

Given his reactions, I don't think he was part of them, but it is likely they kept the path clear for him on occasion. However, for the same reason Sloan found Bashir to be a danger when he was willing to break morals and rules to get the cure, I think they would give Sisko wide berth as far as recruitment. Similar to his handling of the Maquis turncoat, he could be absolutely brutal in dealing with those he saw as dishonoring the uniform.

Okay, this should have been made cannon somehow, it's brilliant. The idea of Bashir confronting Sisko and him admitting he was part of Section 31 since his wife died. Amazing, I would have loved it.

He was definitely a Section 31 asset whether he knew it or not. He worked with and was supported and protected by Admiral Ross who is a confirmed Section 31 ally. Sisko was an asset who left to his own devices and with minor steering became one of Section 31s greatest agents of control and change. Everyone is an asset until they are not. That's the Section 31 way.

IMHO, the darkest secret would be the death of Vreenak. If the Romulans had discovered that Sisko was complicit in the assassination of their senator, the Romulans would have declared war on the UFP. That or demand his extradition for trial (under threat of war).

I mean....the writers of the show DEFINITELY didn't think he was part of it. But it would have been cool.

Section 31 isn't "evil" at all. They're the good guys.

Makes me take another look at his actions in "For the Uniform"

Whether Sisko is a member or not you can ask Michael Burnham. She knows.

Benjamin also turned a blind eye when Warf killed Chancellor Gaouron. You could say this is Klingon business but 1. It allowed Martok to take his place who was a lot friendlier to the Federation and was a straight up person unlike his predecessor who was deceitful and for a short time tore up the Kitamer accord that made peace between them and mad the Federation an enemy of the Empire. 2. We know Ben did not let Klingon issues work as an excuse normally because when Worf tried to kill his brother to return his honor he told Worf not to do it again. Even saying if he died Worf would have been brought up on murder charges. In short Ben tampered with the inner workings of the Klingon Empire for the Federation benefit. Neither Ben nor Worf was punished for this. Anyone else would have been court marshalled if a diplomat was killed by a Starfleet officer. You can add this if you make a part 2 to this video.

Kirk broke the rules countless times. He was no worse for ware. Only difference is, Starfleet wasn't threatened by something like the Dominion

A few more points for sisko fing section 31. The defiant was allowed to use a cloaking device. When the phased cloaking device was found by the enterprise D. Picard thought it would cause a war. (I'm surprised that phase cloak was not used on the defiant instead.) The defiant could not pass its shake down because it tries to tear itself apart. Yet soon after sisko gets it back. It gets all the issues sorted out. Abladive armor, we only ever see 3 ships with Abladive armor. Admiral Janeways future shuttle. End of series Voyager and the defiant. Phaser cannons, the defiant gets the new phaser cannons instead of the traditional phasers and phaser strips.

“Coincidences happen every day. But I don’t trust coincidences.” -Humble textile merchant

Although most of the evidence is circumstantial and can't directly be proven, it's an interesting idea. As a Section 31 operative, you'd want that evidence to be circumstantial anyways, so no one knows any clear and definitive information about what you're doing. Adding to the possibility is Gowron's "assassination" from season 7. Sisko probably knew that involving Starfleet and/or Section 31 in the plan would likely backfire, but not if a well-known Klingon officer was involved. Worf is Klingon at heart but knows how to act as a Starfleet officer, so he would have tried to deal with Gowron peacefully (and he did try) if Sisko told him to. Sisko instead told him to deal with it "by any means necessary", giving Worf the freedom to deal with Gowron how he thought was best. Knowing Klingons and their customs, a likely and proven outcome would be that someone would challenge Gowron and kill him. If Section 31 had plans to get rid of Gowron, this would be the best way, given that it would appear to be a normal Klingon matter and not the Federation assassinating the leader of one of their allies. It's also much cleaner than the Vreenak assassination, given that the visible participant is a Klingon Starfleet officer acting in the interests of both the Klingon Empire and the Federation.

You know who’d be perfect for section 31? Odo. It would of been such a twist if he was actually some leader in the organization. Turns out it was Him that infected the others. He help develop the plan overall, including a cure. That’s why he kept linking with that female changing against kiras wishes. I mean he can be as sneaky as he needs to be, or turn into anything/anyone he wants. He’s all about order, and protecting what he loves at any cost, including being the only one to kill his own kind. It’s not a perfect theory. But it would of been so badass if they would of revealed it right. Mindblown moment

Sisko singing, "Move Along Home," so boldly, was clearly an act by him to throw people off who were unsure if he was Section 31.

YES! YES YES! I haven't even started watching properly but I've been saying this for years and I so rarely ever seen anyone talking about this!

I'm kind of shocked you overlooked the fact Sisko directly ordered Dr. Bashier to cooperate with Section 31 if he ran into Slone again and that Sisko's direct superior, Admiral Ross, was confirmed to have cooperated with Section 31 in another episode where Bashier is acting as an unwilling agent for Section 31 and all of this was happening under the direction of Sisko who had ordered Bashier to continue on with the conference after learning of Section 31's involvement and has already proven he is willing to do some questionable stuff when it comes to the Romulans. Sisko was definitely cooperating with Section 31 at the end and likely was aware of Section 31 before Slone made his first appearance likely even nominating Dr. Bashier himself as the doctor had started studying spycraft under the tutelage of the mysterious Mr. Garak very early in the series. Infecting Odo would have been Admiral Layton all the way. Section 31 would likely have been backing his attempted coup believing it would strengthen the Federation plus Layton was in charge at the time and would have had no objections to infecting Odo. Sisko would have never permitted Odo to be infected with a lethal virus and would not have been in the loop because he would have attempted to subvert 31 in this instance.

Sisko was also very close to Admiral Ross who also knew about Section 31 and willingly helped them achieve their goal of having/keeping a Starfleet mole in the Romulus Senate

I would argue against Sisko being part of section 31. Why did he allow Odo to have the Cure and more importantly why did he allow Odo go back and cure the Dominion. The Dominion was far too dangerous to be allowed to exist and if the Dominion did find out that they were being denied the Cure they were in the process of dying so what could they do about it. And as Sisko said " I think I can live with it"

If Sisko was part of S31, he played as much a renegade with them as he did with Starfleet. I wouldn't be surprised if he arranged Sloane's capture as a way to get him out of the way of his own plan. After all.....he can live with it.....

Its nice to see these on release

As someone once said: "Once is a coincidence, twice is a pattern and three times is a conspiracy."

Great video as always Lore.

There is one piece of information which indirectly confirms that Sisko is a Section 31 Operative. In Paradise Lost, when the Lakota was fighting the Defiant, it is discovered that the Defiant had Ablative Armor, and no one informed Starfleet Operations. For those who don't know, Ablative Armor was reverse engineered from the remains of the Borg Hull from Wolf 359, and Starfleet ended up banning the technology for unknown reasons. The fact that Sisko not only gained access to it, and installed it without alerting Starfleet Operations, implies that he had some pull beyond his rank and station. (It's also been suggested that he is the person who reverse engineered the tech, but this was never confirmed)

I like the idea of SisKo working with section 31. It brings everything into relief. And his Machiavellian tactics are very much explained by being associated with section 31.

Well, he is the only mortal to punch a Q….. definitely section 31 material

Sisko is a return to the direct leadership and involvement of early characters like Kirk. We also hear in Undiscovered Country that Starfleet had at least one dedicated ‘battle fleet’ that were supported by the various star bases and space stations around the borders of the Federation

He was an agent all along, and section 31 already knew about the wormhole, which is why he was stationed there.

Number 1! I like it. it Fits. I find it interesting how when you ignore everything Federation says, and look at what they actually do... All their enemies have legitimate gripes.

You make a good case, based upon what is available. I'm not nearly convinced but I really enjoyed it!

I absolutely love some of these takes.

I mean the fact that Sisko's Linkedin profile list section 31 as a current employer is sort of sus.

The best Secret Agent is the one who does know he was a secret agent. I cite the episode where Section 31 recruits Dr. Bashir. If Sisko was an agent there would be zero reason to bring Bashir onboard. I would suspect Leeta ( ROM's wife) would be a perfect section 31 agent on DS9. She is a hotbed activity and can observe without attracting suspicion. She can come and go to Bajor. Now she is the wife of the Nagus? She can certainly observe and report only.

Section 31 was absolutely tied into the events of In The Pale Moonlight. Remember they were trying to infiltrate the Tal Shiar and that didn't start just before Bashir went to that conference. It had to be in the works for awhile. So directly or indirectly Sisko was part of Section 31 at that moment. He was advancing their plans and playing right into their hand

Sisko”s darkest secret was that he wanted to grow his hair back and shave his goatee. Ok, that might be reaching. 🤣🤣

Sisko nudging worf to take out gowron is another one.

If he were Section 31, it would've been said/explained in the show because the writers don't understand subtlety.

The incident where he allowed another likely Section 31 Operative posing as a Maquis Terrorist to steal his war ship, fly it deep into Cardassian territory to expose a secret armada then proposed the terms of trade which were quickly accepted to get said ship back with little hesitation or resistance from the agent who would end up being the fall guy in the exchange proposal.. comes to mind

I would add in his connection with Admiral Ross, who is just as suspect.

I always think of section 31 as the Starfleet equivalent to the Vulcan logic extremists. They took the philosophy to the extreme, whilst also knowing it is counter to their philosophy. Neo-conservatives spring to mind. Sisko wasn't a part of it, however would sympathise with their pragmatic view, whilst knowing it opposed Starfleet doctrine

"You broke our cardinal rule, you allowed this to become personal." - Koval; Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges. With that said, I feel Section 31 has a similar motto and did pull strings for Sisko who is too emotional to be an operative.

It'd be interesting to analyze Sisko's involvement in Leighton's coup from the perspective of him being a 31 agent. Also possibly his interaction with Q, if he had been somehow prepared for that encounter.

it would seem to me that Section 31 was more his guardian angel supporting him, but it would be to their advantage that he WAS NOT an active operative. Far easier to stay behind the curtain and simply support his ideas and actions from the shadows. Who knows how many agents-in-place they would have to quietly bury a report or influence an admiral or Federation intel official to look the other way at a critical moment? Having him as an operative strikes me as way too overt for Section 31.

Had to review some old episodes. So in the episode "The Adversary" S3E26, Odo kill a fellow changeling. He then went back to earth in the episode "Homefront" S4E11. Odo then becomes ill in episode "Broken Link" S4E26. They take Odo to the Gamma quadrant to be "cured" by the founders. Little do the DS9 crew know that Odo was infected and thus infects the founders when they link with him. The founders had out their "punishment" to Odo for killing a fellow changeling. In process the founders end up infected.

I always wondered why when Q showed up on DS9, he didn't fart into the wormhole and take the Bajoran "gods" down a peg. After all, their "emissary" punched him in the face.

i still believe that there is no way Garek wasn't a section 31 agent or the very least a major asset/ally. Also I don't think it was Sisko as the 31 agent but it was O'Brien.

I think Miles was also working for Section 31. It was Miles that came up with the idea of kidnapping Sloan and how to do it. It was Miles idea to go into Sloans mind. Miles was also sent on an undercover mission. How did Section 31 know I was so much about Bashir? Miles was Bashir holosuite buddy. When in Sloans mind the cure was found plus other top secret goodies that intrigued Bashir but Miles kept him focused on the cure only. Miles was definitely part of Section 31.

Makes you wonder if, somewhere on Earth, probably not too far from Moscow, Section 31 has a private museum where they keep the poisoned umbrellas, the Polonium and the Novichok as historical, but potentially useful, artefacts.

Oh dayyyyymn! Great episode. I agree, too many coincidences.

This was a well thought-out video and I enjoyed it. Keep up the good work

Joseph Sisko heads S31. Ben reached out to his dad to pull a few strings to get Sloan to deliver the cure recipe for Odo.

so the speach Sisco gave about having Bashir play along next time to try to infiltrate sec 31 was a roos?

Given dialog from the show, it's unlikely that Ben was a direct member of 31, but he was undoubtedly aware of them, and likely cognizant that he was being manipulated by 31. However, in defense of your theory, when Bashir gets told that he needs sigma 9 clearance. Neither he nor O'Brian know what it is. However Ben is unable to get the actual information, he gets a dummy version

Love the theory however I think it is just as likely that Sisko had no affiliation with Section 31 & instead was a puppet of Admiral Ross [a known Section 31 operative] who we know was the Admiral that Sisko reported to for at least seasons 5-7. Ross could have been protecting Sisko from fallout for all his insubordination for the entire run of DS9. Ross would have seen Sisko as I viable candidate for recruitment for all the reasons you listed. Seeing his potential Ross allowed him to continue to defy orders & make questionable command decisions free from repercussions for the sole purpose of eventually recruiting him. This would explain why Sisko was never reprimanded without going so far as to say he was a willing Section 31 operative. Thoughts?

Question for you instead: How did the doctor read the information on a cure while in a memory palace? Essentially they were in a dream state if I remember correctly, and symbols in such states are rarely intelligible even to someone with a photographic memory. The Ideas but not the specifics...

I have thought this and you were the first to voice it. Sisco was stationed on Earth and helped design the Definant, a war ship after the borg attack. If you subscribe to Wolf 359 being partially an inside job (lots of old weak ships set to confront the borg being on purpose and not incompendence because of section 31 playing the long game) then Sisco would have been extreamely easy to recruit. I alsos thought Sloan's "death" was way too convient in that epsisode.

There has been a lot of speculation that Ben Sisko was Section 31. Since we see alot of what's happening in BS's life and this is never revealed, it would be deceptive, at the very least on the part of the writers. I therefore don't think BS was in S31.

You made a point that there was a definite chance right up until your last point. Sisko, if he was 31, just wouldn’t have let Bashir get the cure. We’ve seen he was willing to sacrifice his friends for the greater good, he is a captain after all. Unless this was the entire point. The greatest ploy 31 ever pulled. A bargaining chip, the cure for an unconditional surrender of the Dominion, which is what ultimately happened. Which again paints them all as grey, not evil.

Sisko did mention how the Federation considered giving the cure to the Dominion. He knew what was going on

Even if Sisko had whatever clearance level required to get odo's medical files from star fleet medical they could of still said no its a need to know or something. Maybe there was a sub plot in the arching story that Sisko was a section 31 agent, but they never did say that in the show so I guess we will never know. And thats sad. Maybe if they got the courage to bring this show back to life we could find out, we could only wish.

There was one mistake in this video. He didn't hire a former member of the obsidian order. Garak is just a tailor. A very good one.

This reminds me of Seven of Nine in the episode The Voyager Conspiracy.

I love that Bolian, he is such a badass.

I doubt Sisko was ever approached to join Section 31 so much as he unwittingly served as an asset to them in much the same way that Bashir did once he became aware of their existence. Presuming that Section 31 had accurate psych profiles on pretty much everyone, they'd know that Bashir was too idealistic to join the organization, so rather than the invitation being genuine, I suspect Section 31 deliberately revealed themselves to Bashir in this manner to manipulate him toward their ideal outcomes. Such as getting a Federation operative (Koval) onto the Continuing Committee. In Sisko's case, he didn't actually need to have any official connection to Section 31 to benefit from them covering for him for the various technical violations of StarFleet protocol he committed. Moreover, given that Bashir was tempted with the identities of everyone in the organization by Sloan, presumably that list would include Sisko, and even if Bashir couldn't prove anything after having gotten the cure, he'd know that Sisko was a Section 31 agent. Which doesn't ensue, because (and therefore) Sisko was never invited to join Section 31.

The Admiral who helped them (can't remember his name) was NOT Section 31, but he did help them Sisko is like that.

I think the Maquis were functional to Section 31, Sisko's beef with Eddington was personal, and his solution a war crime, definitely, I doubt Section 31 ordered it, but they might have protected Sisko because he was also functional to them.

I always viewed that their was no section 31 but federation officers taking matters to their own hands when it was needed

I notice people talk about Eddleton but forget Cal Hudson that happened beforehand.

The problem I have with this is that Sisko has a righteous fury, particularly if his own family and friends are messed with. Section 31 nearly killed Odo and definitely messed with poor Bashir more than once. I mean I know it's just conjecture on your part but that's the part I can't square. As dark as Sisko got he was motivated by a need to protect his own.

Possibly after Bashir had his run in and Cpt.Sisco recieved the doctors report when he got the second call. Then I'd say he joined section 31 to really fight the dominion in the war. Kinda like an inverted Elem

What about when the Dominion war was about to start and he encouraged Bajor not to join the Federation? Yes, Starfleet was frustrated. And you could argue that on the surface he had Bajor’s best interests at heart. But wouldn’t an ostensibly neutral planet that was occupied by the Dominion provide Section 31 with an access point to the Dominion for their operations?

I have a theory that Section 31 is an organization that Starfleet Intelligence uses when it needs to possess total plausible deniability

All Captains and above /ship and base commanders are members of sect 31. Master Chief O'Brian highest ranking NCO and combat vet on DS9 is Sect 31 as well. These position are not just time and rank but are tested & approve.

Entertaining. Now do Kirk(as a 31 agent)! 🖖

Ngl Section 31 always bugged me as a concept, but it does make sense. Even the most squeaky clean government or ruling body has thing that it won't want the general populace to know about. I don't exactly like how much is currently being shown of Section 31 in Discovery because i've always kind of thought that a spooky secret organisation should be exactly that, secret. Plus before its introduction, you could make pretty interesting theories about how some things in TNG directly clash with things brought up in TOS, such as there being no record of a "hole in space" in the Federation data-banks when the Enterprise-D encounters the entity known as Nagilum, despite Kirk encountering and his crew encountering a similar "hole in space" entity, leading many to think that Starfleet or Section 31 classified or even deleted the data concerning the entity Kirk encountered and most likely did the same to Picard's log entries on Nagilum.

I'm going to counter your reasonable argument with one that I am using in my own fantasy novel series. You don't have to have someone JOIN, if they're already aligned with some or most of your goals. In fact, it's better to let them stay unattached, in case they go totally off the rails and you are not then attached to their mistakes and/or misdeeds.

The Sisko dealt with threats to the Federation……quietly.

Probaly just channeling a former life as Paris. Where he said, 'What would you do to someone... who decided to fuck with you in your own house?".

I think it’s interesting that Sisko first conceived of Romulans allying with Starfleet and the IKDF from Bashir’s projections with the mutants…

I doubt Sisko would know most of this even if he was a Section 31 agent, in all such organisations you only know what you need to know for what you're doing, not one thing more.

This is like the fanfics where Dumbledore is evil. It just makes sense.

This makes perfect sense as a member of section 31

Or, Sisko is the head of Section 31!! Don't let his "rank" fool you. Often in that type of work, the person who is actually the head, usually takes an unassuming position. They know just how far to push without getting in trouble and they know which "buttons" to push to get people to do what they want while at the same time letting that person or group think it was their idea!

I don't think Sisko has any actual connection to Section 31, but I do think he sympathizes with their philosophy and tactics.

I just had a realization. Sloan kept all that info in his head. Could he have had an idetic memory like Bashir? Could that be a reason Bashir was tapped as a potential agent to be like Sloan?