BEWARE: This makes carabiners break A LOT lower

Рет қаралды 217,936

Жыл бұрын

Carabiners break pretty reliably when pulled the way they are intended, but cross loading them can happen from the nose getting stuck to a sling catching on the gate, so what ACTUALLY happens when you cross load a carabiner.
Data is on our blog www.hownot2.com/post/cross-lo...
Carabiners loaded sideways • Carabiners Loaded Side...
Multiple carabiners in 1 hanger • Climbing carabiners do...
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@HowNOT2 8 ай бұрын

Check out our new store! hownot2.store/

@mathias5618 Жыл бұрын

I never expected wire gates to be so freaking strong when loaded against the actual wire! Crazy

@johnwilder9280 Жыл бұрын

Alot of that is because wire gates have steel gates compared to solid gates, which are aluminum.

@Pedro28725 Жыл бұрын

Engineer here: It is also because they significantly bend, making the steel not being loaded by bending, but by tension.

@ShuRugal 25 күн бұрын

@@Pedro28725 was just going to comment "almost like an engineer was involved with designing them" it's amazing, to me, how many people look at a piece of engineered equipment and say "i have no engineering experience, but i bet this was engineered wrong"

@StephaneDubois-ie3tb Жыл бұрын

I do belive Camp and all the big brands should sponsor you.... not for avoiding bad advertising but because your channel shows how much all these equipment are very good. I am sure it helps a lot of us to trust the equipment and fear a little more the human factor

@testboga5991 Жыл бұрын

I prefer him independent and honest

@storylineOfMadness Жыл бұрын

may be not sponsor, but pay some reward for finding issues like in this video... I mean, it does feel like crossloads are much easier than they should be

@StephaneDubois-ie3tb Жыл бұрын

@@testboga5991 I definitely like him honest and independent and i am pretty sure this would not change. It is a little bit genuine of me thinking that but from what i know all these brands have to follow a test protocol but don't pay an independent "agency" to test it. It would be great if there is a kind of supra organization of climbing equipment that actually sponsor people like Ryan of this channel and others that give good and serous content and overall help the brands and our community... I am such a dreamer

@blacksmith67 Жыл бұрын

Not a climber, not ever going to climb anything... but I am hooked on this channel. I found it because of an interest in knot tying and I've been watching HowNOT2 videos for a week.

@chad1755 Жыл бұрын

Same!

@audiojck1 Жыл бұрын

At least now you know, that the gear would be super good enough 😁

@HowNOT2 Жыл бұрын

I’ll be making a ton of knot videos soon

@kd5nrh Жыл бұрын

I've honestly used my Metolius biners more for my hammock than climbing or rappelling the last few years, but it's still nice to know I won't have an unplanned descent while snoring.

@GeoffSayre Жыл бұрын

I'm an arborist, and I use the those beefy locking gate style carabiners. This makes me feel very confident in my gear actually.

@dannyhull8007 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for testing the locking gate carabiners. These are what we use on our fall arrest safety harnesses at work. It's nice to know that they should indeed provide the necessary hold in the event of a fall.

@jackberdine Жыл бұрын

The carabiners with the fat gates are really awesome when you're working in the winter and CANNOT take your gloves off. Petzl makes some

@catcatcatcatcatcatcatcatcatca Жыл бұрын

How the wiregate keeps good contact while deforming was something I did not realise and as a result it held way more weight than I expected. If anything this is great advertising - instead of “trust me bro” number you get to see the failure and realise how the deformation is not a flaw but a feature. Im sure some orientation where the gate is also against a corner might “open” the gate when the deformation starts, but I certainly now consider the part much stronger than initially. It’s absolutely ridiculous to look at the two thin aluminium wires and realise they can deliver such strength. They look like something a strong guy could rip apart with their fingers.

@mattfleming86 Жыл бұрын

Bwahaha guest co-host worked out. After he got over that initial filming period he seemed at home.

@jackberdine Жыл бұрын

Sure, that carabiner can hold 8kn crossloaded, but what about when you put a knot in the biner?!?!?!

@DeadlyWalrus Жыл бұрын

Fall protection equipment. I do a lot of roofing, and I would like to see you test the ropes, harnesses, rope grabs, anchors, lanyards, and shock absorbers that are available. Also, I would be very interested in seeing different fasteners tested for mounting the temporary roof anchors and different positioning and mounting configurations for roof anchors. Thanks.

@xavierg2950 Жыл бұрын

Definitely needs to test the anchors. Manufacturer says to nail every hole in the anchor but no one ever does. I have seen a guy fall off the roof with only two nails in his anchor and while it held, they were bent and about to come out. Scary stuff.

@DeadlyWalrus Жыл бұрын

@@xavierg2950 For sure! I have always debated on the best fasteners to use, Nails vs Screws and whatnot. I have started to use GRK R4 3-1/8 #10 screws. It shows they are rated for something like 1000lbft of shear force. (Not sure what that number directly applies to.) But the shear strength is always the big concern since I'm sure nearly any screw there is has better pull out resistance.

@mikelarin8037 Жыл бұрын

I use those steel ones at work every day. Good to know I'd die from the shock before it ever broke. I've also got some triple action oval aluminum ones on my descenders and it cross loads all the time. It's got a semi large gate compared to your rope access one. When I Go over an edge have to be super careful that it seats properly.

@remcov3253 Жыл бұрын

Nice testing as usual. I can only hope big manufacturers (Camp, BD, Petzl etc etc) look at this and think. "OK, now how can we improve on this design"

@timkirkpatrick9155 Жыл бұрын

Scary but as aborists, avoiding crossloading is difficult since branches can interfere so easily as we reposition. ISA has great guidelines to limit this happening.

@fosterdoodle Жыл бұрын

I had a wire gate carabiner cross-load between my belay loop and a dyneema sling I was using to secure myself to an anchor, and when I weighted it, the tip of the gate popped out of the carabiner! Thankfully my system was redundant and I didn’t fall. I was able to replicate the incident with ease which is concerning since I was only using body weight to make it happen. Cross-loading is not ideal!

@hummerchine Жыл бұрын

What brand/type of carabiner was it?

@Nerudah Жыл бұрын

That's a big claim without providing the specs of the biner there buddy.

@kd5nrh Жыл бұрын

@@Nerudah aw, come on: no gear shaming. He had the best wiregate Walmart Automotive could supply.

@Nikolas_A Жыл бұрын

Without getting into the supposed gear failure, what an awful way to attach yourself to the anchor!

@pentachronic Жыл бұрын

I’ll take “things that are not true” for $100 please!

@SublimatedIce Жыл бұрын

Thanks for doing this video. Always wanted to see how they cross load and brake

@JonathanFisherS Жыл бұрын

I look at wire gate carabiners and am like "no way", but multiple tests are showing they are probably a better design counter-intuitively.

@dp1381 Жыл бұрын

Leaving two carabiners on the anchors of every route you climb is a sure way to run out of "leaver 'biners."

@hummerchine Жыл бұрын

I only do it when clips are not already there, which is becoming less common every year. But hey, I compare it to golf. Sure I leave $300-$400 of carabiners every year. That’s one round of golf at a nice golf course:D

@hummerchine Жыл бұрын

Best video EVER=D That was super fun! Ryan is AWESOME, as is his lab!

@peterhurley4194 3 ай бұрын

your channel is such a great resource, yesterday i was wondering if you had tested dyon biners and sure enough, here it is

@torchofkck4989 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing I'm always searching for shackles being cross loaded... Never thought that carabiner could cross load.

@brandondone2888 Жыл бұрын

Thanks Ryan. Great video. Very informative.

@mowgliadventuresnet303 Жыл бұрын

Fun facts, I always wanted to know. ❤ Thank you for the video! 📷

@sachinw483 Жыл бұрын

Man you must have bits of carabiner eeeeeevverywhere

@moonliteX Жыл бұрын

yesss! been requesting for this for many months!!

@kavemanthewoodbutcher Жыл бұрын

Good to know that itll still be me or the tree that breaks, in theory.

@TheUncleRuckus Жыл бұрын

_Breaking Gear Fear,_ one video at a time!! Great video Ryan, thank you for uploading! 👍👍

@yonko1961 Жыл бұрын

As a trained goldfish breeder with 27 years expertise I’m happy to say I will not be cross loading my carabiner

@kadmow Жыл бұрын

at least metal components - with sport climbing - are unlikely to exceed a fatigue limit (professionally, auminium may "fatigue out, while seel - designed for "infinite life" will not (unless corrosion sets in, then replace as logic and insurance dictates)- webbing and other synthetic components tend to "time out" - aging, regardless of use cycles.. Note tensile strength of a wiregate is "super good enough" - unlikely to die unless being a real e-diot.. So design all (wiregate)carabiners to be unstable in crossloading - make them reorient to long axis by geometry.

@kilianhzh Жыл бұрын

Hey Ryan, have you heard about carrot bolts? It’s apparently an Australian thing where the bolt does extend a little bit and does not come with a plate. The climber then slots a plate on the bolt and attaches his gear. Looks super sketchy

@Um_im_ryan Жыл бұрын

You should test high ropes course equipment, I’ve worked at two around the Chicagoland area and climb regularly, but I’ve always wondered what that specialized equipment is rated for/ can take

@alagerstrom1 Жыл бұрын

I had a Camp Photon crossload on a trad fall and bent the gate quite badly to where the draw was unusable. It was on an alpine draw as well.

@Those_Weirdos 11 ай бұрын

I'm not a mountainer. Or a boulderer. Hell, I'm barely a gravel drivewayerer, but I've been bingeing your content. If nothing else, I love catastrophic failures and weird material behaviors.

@andrewhunter6536 Жыл бұрын

The edelrid 19g are terrible for this when clipping slings together (not unusual think about a draw to a cam). I think sling to sling allows the nose hook more chance to grab. Could shake it into place and I have definitely seen it irl not deliberately forced

@mrbeans2425 Жыл бұрын

I think the purpose of the ball on the clip is to aid the carabiner in rolling over in the event there is cross load. Like naturally reorienting itself. after watching those pull tests it seems it was designed that way. But with enough force in the right places it can still get stuck. Same with the wire gates, they are strong enough to hold in place, bending before breaking. Those Omega Biners are the ones i use for my Roofing gear. (the black ones, not that big ol green one)

@allezvenga7617 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your sharing

@TheOriginalJub Жыл бұрын

I would love to see some tests with soft goods and bug spray (any maybe sunscreen). In the buggy northeast, it's "common wisdom" that bug spray will damage your gear and make it weaker, but I wonder how much bug spray for how long and how much strength you lose. I also wonder if there's any truth to Picardin being safe for gear but DEET isn't, especially since I've heard it might not be the DEET that damages the soft goods, but the alcohol it's suspended in.

@perplexedon9834 Жыл бұрын

7:00 damn I can't believe the wire of that BD alone took 11kN. It looks flimsy as hell

@extremegear7520 Жыл бұрын

For a second, I thought you had Bill Nye the Science Guy in the video.

@speeddemon2262 Жыл бұрын

Sick video great info.

@sbk000 Жыл бұрын

Once I fell while on lead, and was surprised when pieces of metal banged my helmet from above. It turned out that I caught the tip of the carabiner of 2nd quickdraw below me with the belt of my harness, and it broke so easily that I didn't noticed it at first.

@mochouinard Жыл бұрын

The question now is how small of a rope would slide under the bite with pressure ? It might not get out on the first try, but once it under the lock part, a different pull direction might then get it out.

@Nik-qsb Жыл бұрын

Cool, so a little bit of different can be a lot bad.

@maxjohnson277 Жыл бұрын

I actually had this happen on a lead fall. Gate bent like crazy, but nothing broke.

@chaseman222 Жыл бұрын

I use carabiners similar to that big green one at work and they always get snagged and side loaded on the d-rings on my harness. A quick and simple fix but annoying nonetheless

@Lew114 Жыл бұрын

I never worried about breaking a carabiner when I climbed. I figured human error was the biggest risk.

@joelbrown3935 Жыл бұрын

decorations. please make the best climbing Xmas Tree ever this year

@Zogg1281 Жыл бұрын

I know that I'm asking again, but could you test Bowline on a Bight vs rethreaded figure 8 (using a carabiner to attach to climbing harness). I'm still trying to find out which retains more strength in a rope as well as how easy they are to untie after a big fall (or more accurately, after belaying kids and adults up a climbing wall all day). Please?

@bcyork Жыл бұрын

Well I feel great about everything now too!

@GreatDataVideos Жыл бұрын

I like Rock Exotica Rocko WireEye Auto-Lock Carabiner which prevents cross-loading. Also Petzl CAPTIV does the same.

@DavidOsborne_sprdave Жыл бұрын

Climbing trees with drt, my caribiners want to side load and flip over and over. I use a rubber corner trap to keep it from doing anything stupid.

@andrewhunter6536 Жыл бұрын

Maybe it’s time to start threading some 25mm tubular webbing on top of your soft shackles to help them get less chewed up? I’m sure the webbing is cheaper than the dyneema

@ronpflugrath2712 Жыл бұрын

Liquid die and magnifer to check for cracks in metal?

@mdrich100 4 ай бұрын

I wonder is there any relationship to the brand/cost?? I bought most of my quick draws in a pack that weren’t super cheap but not crazy expensive either. Latest purchase was Wild Country, 8 for around $100. Couldn’t tell you the model but I feel much better about the wire gate cross load, however… does cost play a factor? *excluding the knock off stuff of course

@dannyneriiii7766 Жыл бұрын

After the silver BD litewire, were the next two purple Trango phase and black metolius bravo ii?

@hummerchine Жыл бұрын

So close! It was a black Metolius FS Mini 2 Actually my most used leaver ‘biner Cheap Light Strong Small Perfect!

@dannyneriiii7766 Жыл бұрын

@@hummerchine my leavers as well! I use bravo iis on all my alpine draws

@kadmow Жыл бұрын

next week, Robert Murray Smith tests a graphene-infused UHMWPE carabiner with howknot2 - 26kN....

@seamusmcc5 Жыл бұрын

Yeah this guy left biners on the anchors of every climb he did at Bruise Brothers in Muir Valley. No wonder he ran out of leaver biners. Apparently he doesn't like cleaning, that's a lot of cash to blow on replacement biners 😂

@hummerchine Жыл бұрын

Hahaha! I’m on a worldwide mission to try to get climbers to leave carabiners at anchors! If we can just reach a critical mass of all climbers willing to leave a few carabiners each year it wouldn’t take long for all climbs to have them. I recently got a great idea….at least one manufacturer should market “Leaver ‘Biners” specifically meant to be left….like if yer using one for anything else yer become a known thief:D Actually most climbing areas already do have either permanent steel, or aluminum leaver ‘biners such as mine left at anchors. I’ve installed about 200 permanent steel clips on routes around WA, mostly at Frenchman Coulee. I was blown away by how few routes at the Red River Gorge have clips at the anchors. Great climbing area though! Oh, and one more point….leaving carabiners at anchors rather than threading is faster, easier, SAFER, more fun, and quicker. Like some days that’s an extra route, which is huge to me especially when I’ve traveled far at great expense.

@AdamEdington Жыл бұрын

Next carabiner showdown should be crossloaded

@ljprep6250 Жыл бұрын

I've been watching your vids for a month or two and have always wondered why you don't have any retainers to keep the ends around the breaking points. I'll bet it's because you just like to see all the parts go flying around the shop, endangering yourselves. LOL Love your stuff, and I feel a lot more comfortable with ALL biners now than I used to.

@hummerchine Жыл бұрын

After having the pleasure to be involved: The parts flying are impressive as hell and make for a great video! We are hiding behind a steel wall during the actual breaking parts…like Ryan warned me, if you can see the carabiner it can see you:D It’s LOUD!!!! Like no matter how loud it sounds on KZfaq, it’s like a gun was shot! (We covered our ears)

@martygt3357 Жыл бұрын

I have climbed all over the US and never worried about cross loading because I do not know how it can happen if you do things right. I do believe that a freak condition could bounce a biner to cross load but it is a super rare event. ???

@cramhead Жыл бұрын

So is the 7 kN marking on the biner expressing an average breaking strength or a minimum breaking strength?

@Frostbiker 8 күн бұрын

MBS stands for Minimum Breaking Strength. It means that 99.9% of the carabiners will resist at least that force without breaking (3 sigma).

@kge420 11 ай бұрын

I use a Camp nano to clip my dogs leash to his harness. Rarely it will somehow unlatch itself. This happens after we’re well into the walk. Any tips on stopping this?

@HowNOT2 11 ай бұрын

Tape. Or a carabiner that locks

@Thisious Жыл бұрын

obviously we need a carabiner made only out of wire gates

@Zerileous Жыл бұрын

I would totall like to see them clipped by the nose with the gate open. If indeed they can be stuck on the hanger that way. Im guessing/worried that it would be lower than the actual load of a lead fall.

@DBegemod Жыл бұрын

nice

@johnjriggsarchery2457 11 ай бұрын

In the arborist World, we'd never trust a wire gate for life support. Give me a William's Ball Lock any day.

@adamkenny2888 Жыл бұрын

I may be an amateur, but I would only climb with screw style locking carabiners

@dallebull Жыл бұрын

Jimmyrig? Hell No, Jerry is a better rigger!

@williamgrizzle8480 Жыл бұрын

As always, break all the things

@mattharvey8712 Жыл бұрын

Bravo......if u broke the the carbinor anchor ......wire spring was to stop cariboner click......from rock click opening.........if u brake one......u must be big guy.........ok .....but not two.......check the wall anchor......cheers

@kuyshina Жыл бұрын

5:08 I was shocked by how much the wire gate deformed. I suspect it’s due to the soft shackles, which makes me wonder if the same results are seen with a bolt.

@kuyshina Жыл бұрын

Yeah the bolt broke it much faster

@DJcyberslash 11 ай бұрын

I still have no idea what "cross loading" is.

@alexanderSydneyOz 11 ай бұрын

What is a legitimate purpose of a wiregate? I would have thought anyone hanging from a rope would use a locking gate.

@moonliteX Жыл бұрын

OH. MY. GOD. I DID //NOT//!!! EXPECT THAT!!!

@andreicofian3662 8 сағат бұрын

Hagan una versión en español plis

@spankyharland9845 Жыл бұрын

never use carabiners from the Dollar Tree store for mountain climbing, even the fancy green ones break easily.

@mbur5099 5 ай бұрын

Bill Nye doing crossover vids?

@alanwood4968 11 ай бұрын

Contractors wanting to get it cheaper than trying to get them safer,

@MongoosePreservationSociety 11 ай бұрын

Gate loading is a real booger

@pascaleberharter9914 Жыл бұрын

For the algorithmen

@frankmartin8471 Жыл бұрын

I'm sure I'm dee toured.

@christo1212 Жыл бұрын

you guys make me glad i quit tree climbing

@Profixt Жыл бұрын

Ooof!

@dragade101 Жыл бұрын

just TRY to not do this in the wilds lol

@evan752 Жыл бұрын

Using broken equipment as decoration is recycling

@nicholasricciuti1678 Жыл бұрын

Nice clickbait having "Beware" in the title Ryan 😛 proving rated gear from reputable companies is super good enough. Would like to see this all tested dynamically on the drop tower, and not contrived scenarios on the slack snap 😀

@hummerchine Жыл бұрын

Me too!

@HowNOT2 Жыл бұрын

Just because it broke at it’s printed strength doesn’t mean it isn’t dangerous if that was your quickdraw. My next drop tower video coming out has cross loaded biners in it on accident.

@nicholasricciuti1678 Жыл бұрын

Sure, but generating a 7kn+ fall you'll have a lot more problems with your body breaking than a cross loaded carabiner breaking and the next piece catching you.

@hummerchine Жыл бұрын

@@HowNOT2 well put Ryan!

@TheKrighter Жыл бұрын

What a terrible design. I haven't climbed since the 70s, so I looked at that beener and thought "Who designed that crap?"

@Frostbiker 8 күн бұрын

A mechanical engineer who does this for a living. And it was verified by both in-house and third-party testing.

@noobhunter3000 Жыл бұрын

I wonder if the manufacturers watch your videos. I get that they test according to standards in their labs, but seeing this more real-life-ish redneck-science-approach sure is quite revealing. Did you ever get any feedback from the companies that produce the gear you destroy?