Great interview. 49:30 Michael is right. Design is about words as much as it is about images.

This piece is so valuable. Picked up a lot of insights here to stay guided in the brand strategy space. I love the idea of exploring different models in terms of payments from clients. Ultimately, it's all about finding the best fit that keeps your business running sustainably.

Thank you so much Stephen such an amazing episode, I really learned a lot! much appreciation to your efforts and time doing this for us.

Thanks again Stephen for the insight, the main message I got from this podcast Is it's difficult and requires a long struggle but if we can clearly differentiate our position more specifically then good clients will come looking for our expertise and our business will last a long time.. (just as Marty. N and David C. Baker say in their book)

This was a fantastic interview! I'm also an independent hybrid strategist / designer wanting to specialize in the non-profit market. I have been struggling with funding and have considered the philanthropic model he discussed around 47:00. The version that was suggested to me from a local foundation director was similar to Michael Johnson's idea---find a foundation that would match $2 or $3 per $1 invested by the non-profit. That way the non-profit has skin in the game but with the help of the investor or foundation or corporate sponsor, the NPO is able to get a more robust brand strategy that they wouldn't have had access to otherwise. But I'm left with how do you go about finding those partners that will enable you to do this work without giving it away?

😍