Fates kids are kind of weird units in my experience because outside of a few exceptions, they don't do too much their parents usually couldn't do. Especially since it means you usually have to use at least one of the parents for 7 maps.

Mozu!Sophie does not actually get Kinshi, Mozu passes Archer to friends and lovers but not her kids, Villager gets passed instead to Mozu children so Mozu can pass skills from the Archer!Kinshi line but not the bird itself

I want to explain here why Jakob!Shigure gives Shigure Wyvern Rider, because it's actually pretty interesting/dumb. The way a child unit's class set is determined is typically just child base class + primary parent base class + variable parent base class. If the child unit's base class is the same as one of their parents' then they just pick that parent's secondary class instead. If both parents would give the same class, then they prioritise inheriting that class from the primary parent and pick the secondary class of the variable parent instead. *_Usually._* This system works pretty flawlessly in all cases except for Azura/Shigure. Azura's base class is Songstress, which Shigure isn't allowed to inherit for obvious reasons, and her secondary class is Sky Knight, which is Shigure's base class. As such, Shigure inherits the parallel class of Songstress, which is Troubadour. Parallel classes are usually only used for Friendship/Partner seals, in the case that both units have the same class sets, but Shigure has the dubious honour of being the only unit who can inherit Songstress' parallel class. *_USUALLY._* This is where it gets weird. When Azura marries Jakob, you would expect Shigure to first inherit Troubadour from Azura, since she's his primary parent, and then inherit Cavalier from Jakob, since he's the variable parent and Shigure would already have Troubadour from Azura. What *actually* happens is that Shigure inherits Troubadour from Jakob, and THEN inherits the parallel class of Sky Knight (Azura's secondary class), which happens to be *Wyvern Rider.* This seemingly makes no sense, until you remember that every other child unit (aside from M!Kana) is tied to a male first-generation unit. Meaning that the code that determines which parent is prioritised when picking classes, doesn't care which parent is primary or variable, and instead just picks from the father first, then the mother. Which is hilariously stupid, because it's just objectively more difficult to program that way. In every other case (aside from M!Kana) the child units always inherit the same class from their father. They shouldn't have even needed to calculate paternal class inheritance, but they went out of their way to increase the overall customisability of the cast by the tiniest margin. I don't know if that's a sign of incompetence, negligence or love for the game, but i appreciate it nonetheless.

if they had done like genealogy where the story at some point continues with the children, then the pairings would actually be really cool. like you finish the story with a "well we defeated the big bad, for now, but the possibility exists that he can return one day", then have the game start like 20 years in the future with the old characters now retired or too old to fight (or killed/captured) so now you need to play with the kids. would have been a really cool feature. maybe we'll get it again one day, but i doubt it.

You know, it's fun to laugh at Miracle Midori strats, but I just played through Kitsune Lair last night, mostly trying to Vantage my way through the map with her and Kaze and I realized too late that I made a damage calculation error that would result in her dying. But you know what saved her? She proc'ed Kaze's Miraculous Save and survived. Also, my Effie!Midori has a ridiculously high Strength stat as a Merchant, which is why she managed to pull off the Vantage strats with Kaze without having to wield the Beastkiller herself (Kaze still had the Hunter's Knife).

Finally my repeated underwhelmed impressions of kana are vindicated.

What absolutely floored me was the realization that Midori's personal growths are equal to or just flat-out worse than Odin's. In every stat.

I don't play in an LTC-context, but I do try to go at a brisk pace and find Kana can always do something useful doing basically the opposite of what you talked about here. I pick her up right after Corrin learns replicate and keep her as a Nohr Noble. She'll never be a tank, but the dragonstone+ gives her enough survivability to always be able to take a hit or two and since replicate mirrors items you can attack with something else and then switch back to dragonstone+ without needing to move someone next to her for trading. That also helps make sure she's always getting passive healing and your healers can do more important things. Her real usefulness comes in her versatility and in making good use of tools that nobody else can do much with. She can nuke fast stuff with dragonstone+, she can do big damage doubling with the levin sword, or she can switch to physical to take out mages or bow users. And if there's nothing around she can one-round, you've got two of her and a debuff skill. When you're not min-maxing for turns, having a jack-of-all-trades unit is surprisingly useful.

1:02:00 Mozu as a mother unfortunately passes down Villager, not Archer, so Sophie will not have archer!Kinshi Knight access. Mozu can at least pass Quick Draw to her, which feels pretty strong in conjunction with Elbow Room.

ah yes... my favorite gotoh: midori

The more I listened to you two go on about Kana, the more I agreed. The only time I ever had a strong kana was Azura!Velouria!Kana, and even then she was basically just a second velouria. And I realized its because when I was really into pairing, I looked at cap mods and not growths. and Kana's base growths are just shit, and with the new formula being variable parent + child / 2 instead of both parents + child / 3, Corrin's growths from Boon can't fix her. Basically, she has a high ceiling but she was given a broken ladder to reach it. Fun bonus calculation: The pairing mentioned above gives Velouria 0 4 1 0 3 1 0 0 and 0 8 1 2 3 0 -1 -1 to Kana (+str-def), but growth wise, its 37.5 50 12.5 50 50 37.5 30 32.5 for Velouria while Kana has 33.75 42.5 21.25 45 47.5 41.25 27.5 28.75, she is the third gen unit but only has better mag (irrelevant for this pairing) and luck growths. that's hilariously pathetic.

I think the Conquest kids on average are more fun and interesting to build around and use than the Birthright kids, and I think this discrepancy is best shown by how the All Paths/Revelation kids are so mid outside Shigure and Sophie. This will probably get expanded on more in the next video(es) but it's very much a matter of "how much do you value the Paralogue rewards relative to the Child units themselves" that might determine how "worth it" the Fates kids are. I'm also 88% sure this exact point may need to be addressed when we have to talk about Ignatius and Siegbert eventually since those Paralogues are quite infamous. Also, can I just say thank Christ there's no stupid class skill in Fates that tricks people into centralizing the entire game's meta around getting that skill on as many kids as possible like FE4 and Awakening had with Pursuit and especially Galeforce? The Awakening Galeforce meta especially is so bad, I don't know how anyone thought it was viable.

Once I did a Conquest run with Corrin having a Ninja talent, getting an A support with Camilla and an S support with Keaton; With a heart seal Corrin gets Poison Strike from Ninja class, Keaton can get it, too, with a partner seal. Now with a friendship seal Corrin can swap to Malig Knight and learn Savage Blow. Keaton eventually learns Grisly Wound from Wolfssegner as usual. Now for Velouria and Kana Corrin transmits both of them Savage Blow, which otherwise they'd have absolutely no access to with that combination of parents. Keaton transmits either Poison Strike or Grisly Wound, and the skill Keaton doesnt transmit they can learn by themselfes with their classes available. Now stack all three skills together + Draconic Hex while we are at it and - voila! - You have two units that will always deal guaranteed 60% dmg+ when they attack, even if they miss, and reduce the enemies stats on top of that. Its such a fun cheese build, especially against those super high defensive Wary Fighter generals in late game.

Hey Mekkah, just fyi this video still needs to be added to your tier list playlist!

The best Kana I ever had was a samurai-boon Corrin marrying Jakob, for easy Life-and-Death. Depending on how late you recruit Kana, Corrin can pass Elbow Room or Trample. Then Kana picks up Vantage and Swordfaire in Swordmaster, and reclasses back to Nohrian Noble for Levin Sword combat. Jakob's bad magic growth means that the Spirit Dusts are a necessity, unfortunately. It's clearly worse than the Ophelia build (no Heartseeker, for one thing, unless Kana marries Ophelia), but you can get it online earlier and without as much meticulous level/reclassing management. That has some surprising applications in the midgame. Samurai is a pretty strong boon for Corrin, as a bonus. To be clear, I'm not saying it's a great build, but as a bit of a novelty, it's the best Kana build I know of. It's also enough damage-stacking where it should be able to replicate Zoran's chapter 26 clear. I do like the Elise!Dwyer option, as that's enough magic where he's respectable in Strategist (and Malig Knight) combat, especially with Jakob passing Trample. It's also nice to give a child Wyvern without using Beruka or Camilla. And Elise's frigid white hair looks rather good on him.

As unfortunate as Kana is, I've generally gotten solid filler combat out of her from just slapping on a Levin Sword, maybe switching to tomes eventually. It's certainly more use than I've ever managed to squeeze out of Midori.

Kids in this game are weird indeed, they scale better than most awakening kids since it's kind of tough to train up a level 10 trainiee but at least they're insane enough to justify it in some aspects (though at the same time a lot of units in Awakening are good at mininum) but in Fates, they scale better but the question is are they really worth it? The map they give is usually really helpful though, the extra map and exprience is really nice, espically later in the game if you need some extra help. Morgan being one of the best units in Awakening to Kana being one of the worst is a really funny contrast though. In Midori's case she has the best crit quote in the game in "My professional opinion, you are really ugly!" (Wait that may be the wrong game) so you know, she's okay. These guys for the most part are just "if you like them, you can use them and have fun but outside of like... opheila, it's never too worth it". Makes me wonder how someone like Midori would do in another fe game, not having to worry about her weird recuitment, but in turn she doesn't have her niche of getting lots of money.

1:09:06 lmao fuga’s bald head just peaking in

I have fun Arthur and azura which has been pretty good for both kids means passing rally strength if i want to rally bot

At least both Kanas support Percy so they can get wyvern that way.

Will the final conquest tier list be posted to r/fireemblem?

Let's go Sophie, my favourite character in Fates (clealry)! She's really cool and on my first playthrough (ie anything more casual/ not maddening) she does pull her weight fairly simply, even if you neglect things like reclassing / making active support pairings for classes etc. Either way, if Silas is active on the field, Sophie often follows close behind and I'm a big fan 💜💜💜

I don't find the fates kids as good or interesting as the awakening kids aside soiele and Ophelia. Awakening if you use female Robin and chrom as a couple you get a good enough to very strong lucina and Morgan to be your back up tag team Fates I can see if you spam dance azura while super load corrin with all the buff stat items you can get 4 kid units if corrin is a girl with one of the parent pairings but they wouldn't be as useful as Morgan or lucina in general.

A gimmick you could do for kana is marrying one of the wolfskin to pass down better odds and renewal. Its good when he is soloing groups of units like in solei's paralog. If you lunge into the berserkers with a wyvern (camila with tomes could survive fairly well aslong as she isn't crt but fire is a thing) then have levin sword to kill the rest of the enemies. Against the bow knights you might need a rally to enemy phase but the dark knights were way slower. This is of course a gimmick and a nos tank could probly do the same. You dont get magic from the Keaton parrying so he struggles in the late game but the gimmick of 30-85% hp back is funny.

One thing that I think really bogs down child units in modern Conquest playthroughs is that you won't be able to get access to things like MyCastle or Boo Camp DLC soon (3DS online is going away), so you are really limited to the base game's maps. That's kind of a pain and really restricts who you can marry. You would have to choose female Corrin and plan to marry Jakob from the start to unlock two paralogues before chapter 10, otherwise you are only going to get experience from the standard maps and not have any kind of cushion there.

In my current lunaric conquest run, i've married my samurai talent corrin (+mag, -luck) to leo and got a pretty damn good kana, at least stat wise. He's pretty much a second corrin, a bit underleveled but still a second corrin. But i gotta say i'm more excited to use forrest because i've never really used him in my other playthroughs

For me at least I always married Corrin with mozu and azure and her combat always was pretty good for me, and I don’t think I didn’t anything spectacular. I guess it doesn’t really move her much tho cuz that can just apply that to ANY kid 🤣

Midori is really unfortunate, being one of rhe few units across all three routes whose statline will never truly be good (like Hinata or Subaki). Ironically, I think she's best used in Rev (where Kaze is at his worst) where you can start working towards her early and Lucky Charm + Profiteer can alleviate your money problems. She has Mozu for better inheritance and Aptitude to compensate for an early promotion slightly, or Azura bc she's the best user of Luck +4 (aka early Azura's only inheritable skill). She's weird in BR and CQ because there aren't as many fliers, you don't need money as much, you access her later and her normal combat (read: not ORKOing Takumi) is meh.

I just make Midori a dread fighter and call it a day. My bias doesn't let me not use her,plus a cute cinnamon roll like her in dread fighter get-up tearing up enemies it's too funny.

10:07 Thank goodness there's enough intuitive tech in this game to never even prompt the idea, either.

I think the only 2 child units ive used are Veloura and Ophelia

Cant Sophie get ninja through friendship with Soleil since thats Soleil's secondary class?

I remember first getting Kana and expecting her to be Morgan part 2 and was shocked how underwhelming she was lol, Kinda in general outside of Percy, Velouria and Ophelia felt underwhelming to me and only one of those I mentioned have a good Dad

Okay last time when I said the golden sun music was getting on my nerves I didnt expect it to be done away with for hollow knight aphex twin football stadium music... this certainly is interesting, what is this?

Kana is awful? Good to know that I never missed out on anything of value by always marrying Corrin to Niles. On a side note, who in the world is that girl second from the right? She some kind of rom hack OC?

First

I had to do the aforementioned reclassing a kinshi knight to falco to get rally speed in my second to last run. Ophelia was my strongest unit but she couldn't double ryoma so i was stuck for years...literally. Then i decided to boot up the game again noticed one of my captures included a kinshi knight that was just the right level to reclass, feed her a couple of the left hand side ninjas and get rally speed and saving the run. I got Shigure right after though. I still used that reclassed kinshi because perfect pitch ruined my vantage setup once costing me Ophelia but i still find it a nice bonus that you can stack with other forms of passive healing like Camraderie and Amaterasu. The Jakob pairing is funny because it showcases a couple of mechanics like dad always passing down the classes before the mom even when the fixed parent is the mom as well as pararell classes. And more wywerns is always nice. I did Azura x Niles my last run and i am really happy how that turned out for everyone involved. Niles and Nina got access to kinshi, which helped them fly while retaining bow offensive and air superiority made some captures more reliable for Niles and both were really good in the hinoka map and throughout the game. Also they can help you do the endgame rescue skip without entrap if you get them pass. I also liked Sophie in my last run. Effie was her mom so when i offspring sealed her she became a greak knight with the knight skills providing a nice bonus. The only problem is that she needed Percy or Siegbert S rank to get access to Wyvern but thankfully i managed to do it right before Hinoka. She had enough strength to one shot generals with the hammer which came in handy on more than one occasion. But as Zoran pointed out there are plenty of candidates that give Sophie flying. Speaking of how do you feel about Silas x Selena? I feel like the pair up bonuses favor them both but doesn't give Silas new classes and Selena gets the cavalier line which is kinda useful but not sure if you prioritize it for Selena. The other units i have no experience using tbh and i kinda just do the paralogues for tge rewards. I like doing Dwyer's paralogue for his inventory and the reward and it's an easy one to get EXP and support points, Kana for Lloyd and Llewellyn which i think are guaranteed to be berserkers so you can get nice combat and utility units early if you do the first retainer marriage, and Midori for the dragon herb. Having a freeish boss killer can be nice i guess. Regarding that let's say you do Mozu x Kaze and pass down bowfaire and life and death would that be enough damage? I wonder. Also when i was theorizing about pairings the first time i played i was thinking of doing Beruka x Benny and making Ignatius the father of Kana. That would give you a +8 defense modifier if you picked defense boon and you can do some funny stuff on top of that like giving Kana wary fighter and renewal or picking oni savage as talent and do some sort of crit stack. Not very practical but funny. Haven't done anything like that though i just marry Corrin to Gunter, Jakob or Felicia and call it quits which kinda guts Kana´s stats.

Love the aesthetics of the channel.