They have a previous video on this topic, and that's exactly what they compared

@@DeltaInsanity Thanks I found it.

One more thing I noticed - if this is a third gen Mazda MX5 (NC) it should come with EBD (electronic brakes distribution). I might be wrong but disabling ABS might be also disabling EBD which leads to too much braking force in the rear (no proportional valve to limit that as it was done electronically) which leads to rear wheels locking to easily at higher speeds. So in theory turning off ABS might set your brake balance as 50-50 (F-R) as default which is not great.

Yeah just 4 more pedals. No biggie

@@Doktoreq I prefer the 31-69 distribution, nice

How would you dip into ABS occasionally if you break it? Lol

threshold braking on with ABS on is outright faster than just slamming the brake and let ABS take over the braking. At least on motorcycle where you can individually adjust brake force of each wheel.

With the older systems, providing an apples to apples comparison, humans did in fact out perform ABS by a wide margin. But this is with expert drivers. That's the rub. Most people are average or subpar drivers and attention is lacking. Which means even with less effective braking of the older ABS, greater than average results were reasonably expected. Heck, people, especially women, still commonly incorrectly apply the brake peddle to allow the ABS to provide best results. ABS has only gotten better in the decades they've been around because of lower cost sensors and reduced manufacturing costs.

@@justanothercomment416 that's plenty interesting but how does that help him if his abs is broken? He's planning on trying to break the sucker right at the edge, clean off I'm assuming

Also this depends on the ABS system, we had a Dodge Durango that cycled the brakes like once a second. Definitely beatable. The abs on our Mini Clubman was so blistering fast I don't think any human could beat it.

I thought it was interesting that it's a light car with a person in the driver's seat (right side for a UK market car) and he had trouble keeping the left tires (less weight) from locking up.

@@julianbrelsford Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️

@MEGAPINT Knowing how to do something in theory and actually doing it in an emergency situation are two different things. Even professional race car drivers often lock up the brakes when trying to avoid another car that suddenly spun out in front of them.

​@@alunesh12345 Screw your control method.

Exactly the only way that this test would be fair is you completely removed the ABS system and converted the system to manual breaks with a proportioning valve

Doesn’t matter keeps it exciting to drive

I also drive with a broken balance bar in front in rain or snow my front snaps 😂

@@Thanos.m That wouldn't be fair. You're relying on partial computer system which is similar to ABS

@@club6525 partial computer system ? In full manual brakes there isn't anything electronic a proportioning valve is just a simple mechanical device that allows proportionate front and rear bias which is necessary since there is only one pedal therefore you can't control bias fully manually

jokes aside, good drivers should try this (in a safe and responsible manner!) to see what it's like and not be scared to rely on it if an emergency arises 😉

@@SpaceMissile ahh . Don't worry i will never do this in a unsafe location. I not the best driver ☺️ . I wanna be one . I wanna try this on a safe , empty ground . I wanna destroy my tyres

I live in Sweden and when we're taking our drivers license one of the onroad tests is the ABS. Obviously in a controled environment or a wide road with no other drivers around. And we also have a seperate tests which involves hasards such as aquaplaning, animals etc, and here we also test the ABS.

If you find yourself needing to brake and turn at the same time, then you already fucked up.

@@colehartel7206 That's why ABS exists tho. Humans fuck up.

There should never be a time where you have to use both your steering wheel and the break pedal at the same time

When racing maybe, but on public roads and highways, having to both brake and swerve is unfortunately something that happens for a multitude of reasons.

@@stonksmcmeme & @droussel are on point, ABS is far superior in emergencies because of steerability.

I've always said this! In fact some years ago a friend asked me how to make his brakes better and I told him to fit some proper tyres (he used to fit remoulds!) and he was confused as according to him the tyres have nothing to do with the brakes 😂

EXACTLY!!!! the limits of basically every force on a car is on the tyres, even if you got ABS without a good set of tyres you will probably crash

...or the brake bias is off.

Motorcycle ABS has come very very far. Check out ProABS/cornering ABS from KTM: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nq6Cispqls7aXYE.html Compared to traditional ABS, cornering ABS keeps the bike from standing up and straightening out under heavy braking, and it also prevents you from locking the wheels and dumping the bike.

Motorbike ABS has only just started to reach a point where it’s decent, the Bosch cornering ABS systems Ducati Ktm and others use now are amazing.

@@Jonathan_Doe_ "Motorbike ABS has only just started to reach a point where it’s decent" Bullshit. Bikes from around 2010 already had GREAT ABS. Newer ABS systems are better yes, but no way the old ones were less than decent.

@@mrfatmanjunior bruh I’m so old when I say recently that basically includes from 2000 onwards 😂😂

@@Jonathan_Doe_ ABS was super, super rare in the 2000's. Trust me even the old ABS systems are better than no ABS.

Nice thoughts; I think the non-ABS car would benefit, comparatively, from the comparison being two people (roughly equal weight) in the seats for the ABS and non-ABS tests. Seems like the pro driver was experiencing wheel lock up on the non-driver side different runs and the reduced weight on the wheels on that side was responsible from what I could tell.

@@julianbrelsford Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️

@@alunesh12345 why are you commenting that here? Do you realize how counterproductive it is to randomly come into people's lives and force religion upon them? There's a time and place for that, and this time and place only makes a net negative force in the universe.

I don’t think a human could beat ABS, but if we had a 4 motor electric car we could probably run the normal brakes at like 90% and then control the last 10 ish % with the motors, since computer and electric components can reach the GHz speed unlike mechanical systems

there is an idea in some racing schools where your left without ABS for most of your schooling and introduce abs towards the end as a human with abs can outperform just full break force abs

Tommo !!!

My 2002 Priuses front brakes are fly-by-wire. If you pull the ABS fuse, you have very limited braking power, it's like driving a car with no power brakes.

for someone who is "experienced", you sure make a lot of incorrect statements. brakes ARE NOT 50/50 brake bias on most vehicles. thats EXTREMELY ignorant. it will depend on vehicle, but most vehicles' bias is set mechanically, not electrically. in some situations, you are correct. in others, you are not. it just depends. the rear loses traction due to weight transfer, how you do not understand that as someone who is "experienced"? talk less, listen more.

@@OxBlitzkriegxO You are absolutely correct on both your points. The bias is set mechanically, and the rear looses traction because of weight transfer. No denying on that. But since weight transfer does not happen instantly, there is a time at the very beginning of the braking phase, where the rear can take 50% brake force (assuming the weight distrebution of the vehicle is close to 50/50) without instantly locking up the rear. As soon as the weight shifts, the rear can't take it anymore (as you correctly said). That's the point where ABS kicks in and modulates brake pressure on the rear, virtually altering the bias. Most modern road cars are set up like that to maximise breaking performance (by utilizing the rear more at the start of the braking phase). Without the fuse this does not happen, therefore you "stay" at 50/50 and the rear starts to loose it. Well, most likely not exactly 50/50, but way more rear biased than, let's say, a properly set up non ABS vehicle.

@@OxBlitzkriegxO Most vehicles - you mean most older than 02/03. Almost anything newer is equipped with EBD (electronic brake distribution). The 3-channel ABS system (most advanced) treated both rear wheels as one due to technical limitation of proportioning valve being in the way. EBD is a step-up from that. It removes the need for proportioning valve as the brake bias is controlled electronically. This allows to exert more braking force in the rear due to initial brake distribution being 50:50 (this changes during braking to more conventional values), shortening the braking distance. The drawback is that with proportioning valve out of the system, when ABS and EBD turns off (they can't function separately) your stuck with 50:50 brake distribution whole time, so your much more likely to lock the rear. Mazda MX5 third gen (NC) used in the video comes with EBD from factory. Fun fact: torque vectoring, e-differential, ESC and a lot of TC systems require ABS and EBD to function (It's all basically one system but it's separated for marketing reasons).

Did you miss the part where he mentioned this in the video?

abs will roll you into the bushes at 5 mph in the snow because it never locks all the way up to actually stop you. it slows and slows and slows and slows aaaaaaaaannnnnndddd wait a seconddddddddddddd okay youre stopped... you couldve stopped 4 feet sooner by just locking all fours at said 5 mph

can second that. ABS is terrible on snow/ice. it keeps the car straight, but stopping distance is way worse

@@bigbud4sure ive seen many an accident on youtube where a slide (typically off a highway following a fishtail) would be checkmate with abs simply because you cant lock the wheels up and continue sliding to a stop in a straight line. its a very rare situation so i get it, but its still completely unreasonable to me that i can physically avoid a crash but a computer wont let me

the only time ive ever crashed a car is with abs on dirt roads. absolutely horrible and will just chatter the wheels if the tiniest bit of slip happens

Lots of magazines have done this test. Results were wildly inconsistent, but did often win without abs. Problem is, you loose all steering control. ABS wasnt originally designed to stop you faster, its there so you maintain control of the car. Much more important 99%of the time.

Off-road ABS exists and has for a few years. It’s prevalent on bikes mostly. And the off-road ABS on a 1250GS outbreaks almost everyone

I would expect that the loose surface tuning in modern cars with traction control is far superior to basic ABS in early cars that only had ABS, particularly with the move to compact SUVs over sedans - for all their faults compared to lower riding compact cars manufacturers are tuning them to handle low traction surfaces.

It is not mandatory, there are several sports cars that do not have ABS because it is actually better without when you know how to break.

It would still best any human in damp or wet scenarios. I suspect the human only control would have a more favourable outcome in snow, however.

@@skylined5534 I'd agree that damp/wet on stock suspension and tires the ABS most likely wins, but I honestly don't know what the effects would be with high-performance suspension tires on a stock ABS module. I've empirically (anecdotally) validated on several cars I've driven that I can stop quicker on compact snow/ice. That being said, I think it would also be neat to test a timeline of ABS systems (although that would be much more difficult to control for i.e. how do you put a 2023 ABS system in a 2001 Miata or a 2001 system in a 2023 Miata?).

I am more than happy to have both but for traction control. Just please give me a button that allows for 100% on and 100% off.

The cars braking system isnt optimized for non-wheel-independent modulation, even the front rear bias could be massively off

@@josealcazar2922 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️

Abs yes, 100%. But traction control is just dangerous imo. ive had (on mazdas) several situations where mid corner the tc kicks in and tried to put me in a ditch. When i was no where near breaking traction. Its like halfway through a corner the car just attempts to straighten itself out by braking individual wheels while the steering is still pointed where i want to go. Its extremely unnerrving and imo, downright dangerous.

Wait till you try abs and stability on a motorbike, a gamechanger

No one says it doesn't reduce braking distances. We are saying humans CAN do better. And they regularly do. Look at the top GT3 drivers. If their cars use ABS, braking distances go up. Why? Because ABS REQUIRES the tire to lock up. Those drivers can ride the line so well that ABS activating does a worse job. ABS WILL catch lock ups faster than humans, which is why GT3s still use it. But it is still NOT the best way to brake for a skilled driver. The only time ABS does better than everyone is if the tires lock up. Then yes. ABS is better than all humans. But as far as only accounting for braking distances? Humans are capable of doing better.

Also no tc on awd

During driving ed we we're on a slippery course and compared braking with and without ABS. We turned the car off to achieve braking without ABS and we did not let off the brakes when decelerating. Without ABS resulted in a shorter braking distance, but the car also did a 180 doing it so not ideal to do in traffic.

@@ra420m bro why tf was my behind the wheel not fun like that

for sure in the snow condition you can beat the ABS, with experience I barely engage ABS anymore... It's icy well just need less brake a longer distance. I did the test on my way to work one day and if a floor the pedal for maximum force it just pulse and barely slow the car to the point of blowing a stop sign but the car was still straight. on the other hand, if I brake until the ABS pulse and come back a little to avoid it kick in, it slow a lot better to the point it the seatbelt that retain me in. I did it on winter tire more wider (235 instead of 215 with the most wider contact patch for that size) and I'm in Canada... Also the sound the snow make during braking is important to know the grip, if it slip the sound goes away(or you are stopped) but when you brake the snow crunching noise goes higher and higher until it slip. The snow on the ground make a little mountain in front of a tire during braking

@@ItsJust2SXTs yes, still like to see a video of it 🤙

ABS developer here. Well, on deep gravel or snow, locked wheels can in some scenarios dig in and collect a wedge of gravel in front of the wheel, which may stop you very quickly indeed. One downside is that if you happen to have gravel only on one side of the car, the resulting one-sided gravel wedge will spin your car sideways, digging the now forward facing side wheels into the gravel and flipping the car over. Also, modern ABS on offroad cars can be set (manually or automatically depending on manufacturer) to some offroad ABS setting that then tries to build a wedge, then roll over it, build another one and so on. Beating ABS may still occur when offroading a car that was not made for it, but then you will have bigger problems.

Why would a professional driver ever be able to beat a system that individually controls the breaking on each tire 15 times a second...

@@mica410 ABS is usually tuned to attain a specific slip ratio on the tyres which is determined for the stock tyres usually; but this value changes as the tyre wears. Turns our ABS wins still.

@drivenmedia it's a scam 👆

I think that leaving those in is part of the point of the video. He has years of racing experience and it still took him a couple of tries to get close.

like they said, in real life you don't get to sail straight through the kid who stepped into the road, say "oops! sorry!! I didn't quite estimate the required brake force correctly that time" and have another go, road conditions, tyre condition, tyre and brake temps change all the time, you're always going to either get it wrong the first time or be lucky to get it right the first time, meanwhile with modern ABS systems you'll pretty much always get 90%+ of what the brakes are capable of at any given moment.

But that is the huge advantage of ABS it gets close to the limit, first time, every time.

@@RWoody1995 yeah youre right. you could outperform an abs but then you need conditions that arent given in rl circumstances. humans are imo always capable of outperforming car electronics but are mostly never capable to do it when its needed. but also im for learning to drive without such assistance, like learning to brake if the system is failing. i learned driving a bike without abs. i often wish i would have got one but i dont want to relie on such a system. nice to have but mandatory to be able without! thats why i trained braking on the bike. if you relie on assistance you shouldnt have a license because you are lost without it. sadly driving schools are to modern and if something fails YOU WILL fail. so sad..... and thats in germany where laws get out of hand. and every fuckin car should have so much assistance that you shouldnt even have to do more then steering. relieing on a machine is imo more insane then driving without by far. i also tried drifting in the snow on the bike and i learned a lot about saving my bike if the front starts slipping and how to "power"drift. okay 125c c15hp and such a rough idle that 100% throttle at idle meant that the wheel broke lose even though the power wasnt enough at 15hp if i used the gas softly. very interessting experience!. think about it , half the torque and by far less power and the kick was enough to lose traction while full power and torque wasnt enough if delivered smoothly. ever had such an experience? i mena kinda logic. if you drop your clutch hard they tires just get ripped of "before they can grip" the surface (even though that this is scientific wrong because of the torque spike not the missing gripping because it always has traction at some degree)

"I'd have cut the first two results from Scott" So you'd fake the results? Nice.

I was thinking the same thing. On dirt ABS can send you off the road, almost like having no brakes.

A lot of cars have a snow setting where abs will work differently.

I guess the miata is just better than u bro

@@egullSZ Not me. Maybe the driver in this vid. I use the e-brake and pedal modulation to stop the shortest. Another trick with the e brake is when going over big bumps you can put some tension on the rear springs as you over to smooth the transition. This allows you to go over things way faster without catching air.

Interesting

For brake by wire I'd agree, but this is still pushing on a standard hydraulic system so it should be representative.

@@Southghost5997 It's more about the brake balance and the sizing of the master brake cylinder.

@@Southghost5997 brake bias/balance will be all over the place though.. As the locking up of different wheels each time shows.

You won't beat ABS anyway. No car allows the driver to brake individual wheels.

Looks like we gots a scammer here..

if on dirt roads, you must turn off all assist, ABS will not allow the tires to dig in the ground and push material to pile infront. TC will constantly cut power to wheels that actually need it and upset balance, specially in a sand trap situations. saw a 2016 dodge ram at the beach once burning through its transmission because TC block power, a flat bed had to pull it out.

Apparently ABS is bad on slippery surfaces such as snow and ice and probably dirt because even light braking will cause your tyres to slip, and ABS will reduce the braking trying to get grip so much that there's barely any braking at all.

Also want to see with and without modulating the rear (handbrake)

And also using engine braking

Regardless the biggest abs advantages are the fact most abs systems can control at very least front left, front right and rear (if not both rear independently too) independently which no driver could do (unless what, you had two brake pedals?) Plus doing it at a minimum (old abs) 8x a second.. Although, I quickly learned on most surfaces, at least in my older car (first gen Honda abs, 93 gsr) I could stop sooner without the abs. But thats also with tires stickier than existed in 93, so not completely fair test either

Why would it matter what brakes the car has. The tires lock better brakes won't change that

👆 it's a scam

@@STax9 Oh, I know. These scams are everywhere on automotive channels. Says something about how gullible car geeks are, I guess.