Of course Kenji is into music theory haha that's great

I came here to say the same thing...

3:42 is the timestamp. Noticed it too haha, kept asking myself “wasn’t that a G??”

That F changes the harmonic progression that I hear under the melody in that last bar, rather than a V-i it'd be like a i64-V-i. That part of the transcription seems like a troll though, you're trying to write out the natural and accidental in the bar before, then it hits you with the unexpected intervals where you think you might just have a descending scale.

@@SolomonDouglas After hearing the name on Bashing with Bimbish so many times, I had to do a triple take to make sure I read the name right. Evidently a legit talented dude. My ear training is rubbish (thank you, 30 years of playing saxophone...) but I'm also shocked at JKLA's prowess with intonation.

Hahaha! Same team buddy!

As a non-professional musician even I would struggle with this. Adam's a beast.

@@ardaerdogan690 Dude’s into crypto, I’m sure he’s smarter than he makes himself out to be.

@@404T2K i think folding ideas is only "into crypto" to the extent that he thinks it's silly. i mean he seems extremely knowledgeable of it but not a fan i think

@@ardaerdogan690 as a pro musician I'd have trouble.. if i had a piano in front of me and could control when i listened to it, I could do it, maybe in about 10 min for one question. However with content only playing (x) amount of times with it being at certain times? and maybe just having the computer in exam i would have failed.. despite the fact ive been producing on a PC since 1994-ish but pass if I could work out without that game show pressure.. this is why I dont think exams are good for society.. whats wrong with evaluating someone over the year? Besides I think as fail as Fine Attempt In Learning. Adam is indeed the DUDE haha

I took it too lmao when they had the Russian song it was kinda lit tho but the chant in Latin was wack I def failed too

@@nick_mikhail guys don’t talk about the ap test until scores are released

Lol “some of these questions” he took the 2021 exam. It was all of the questions

@@paulwittmer7029 that's a different test. The 2022 test is currently testing, and it is a different version than last year's

@@picklegoat oh yea you’re right, I thought this video was old but it’s not. But I also just took that exam and none of those were on it

The only reasons I have come up with throughout my Music Degree, is just learning your roots and being able to read Baroque Style Writing how harpsichordists accompany a soloist. Just wanted to note, the reason why Figured bass exists, is because Baroque Composers wanted to make a system where the harpsichordist doesn't have to read several lines of music, but is able to play the music with bare minimum chordal analysis, Long story short, Figured Bass is just short hand for Baroque people, before Jazz Charts existed.

"The most common salaried music-composition job is a church gig", where do you live and in what decade? :D

@@flrn84791 I was bemused by that too. I would expect the most commonplace music composition jobs to be in advertising/media.

Figured bass is good, people's issue with it is stupid. Figured bass is like chord symbols, how is it not one of the best resources for a beginner, you expect them to learn 4 part writing while having to worry about what chords to use right away? A lot of people complain about this, but I really can't agree, at least in my country most students that reach high school have trouble telling how many flats are in Db Major, they have 3 years to learn music theory, if you go way beyond basic harmony, counterpoint(/voice leading) and form they won't understand anything to a useful degree. While a bit more would be highly beneficial, specially in case someone wants to go into composition like I did (I learned a lot of stuff by myself about integral serialism, modal music, Jazz, Pop and Rnb, "Hiphop" harmony, etc, etc), most students would end up traumatized with music theory (not literally but almost lol) and not like it and potentially have an even harder time in college. If anything most underestimate the connections between this 4 part writing and Jazz arranging, spoilers, you should avoid parallel 5ths and 8ves in Jazz as well

@@flrn84791 Prof is right, possibly the biggest paid music scene in US is and likely to remain Churches

As another GCSE musician about to sit my exam in June… amen!

Literally me with the music theory class on my college course, it’s so painfully regimented, setting the false precedent that music theory is really boring and restrictive 🤦‍♂️

ily

omg george collier did gcse music, what year ? i was the capercaillie/buckley’s grace year hehe

I can tell you, NOT only music education. I have an engineering background and about 50-70% was totally useless. Not in like "well somebody else might need it in a different job" useless. But time wasting useless. Manually doing silly MANY math exercises that don't even exist in the world and that kind of things. Worst of all, I have seen people graduating cum laude , and I would not hire them for one cent. Schools don't teach you to be smart, but just very efficient in remembering things for an exam. It jus sad to see that schools are so extremely disconnected from reality, even more so to see EXTREMELY talented people being discouraged by it it and eventually quitting. Sad, sad but true.

🙄

Ding ding ding 🔔

But then no one would take the class and the codex of (white) Western Civilization would be lost!

There are bigger problems in the world than loose definitions of study programs in their names..I guess people, who want to study that (or something else for the matter), will bother to do the 1min research..

@@LogarMartin It's a problem because it's a bit like writing a book exclusively about the Ford Model T and calling it "The Complete History of Automobiles."

Humming in my head fuckin sucked lmao, I am so used to the feeling of a note when singing/humming it that it really threw me off when I couldn't haha

that seems very backwards

@@jessenicoletta4160 Yeah, I guess unless you’re the only person taking the exam, you can hum, but it’s generally not allowed

@@jessenicoletta4160 a lot of stuff in the music wolrd os backwards just for the sake of ir

@@jessenicoletta4160 imagine multiple students humming while taking questions. its super distracting and could be used for cheating aswell. so yeah whenever theres more ppl taking an exam at the same time its completely understandable.

I don't know that I'd call the octave rule "pointless," though. Those picky rules do have an intent behind them. If you have, say, over an octave between alto and tenor, you start to fundamentally change the texture - essentially leaving the alto to serve as a de facto "bass line" to the soprano. If this isn't *intentional*, it can undermine certain harmonic relationships. And that gets to the core of these rules: It's not "thou shalt not." It's "thou shalt not ACCIDENTALLY." As artists, we can sometimes unintentionally do things that work against what we want the viewer/listener/reader to experience - it'd be like a background extra moving around too much and pulling attention from the speaking roles in a play. Granted, I don't think that aspect of the rules gets enough explanation in the usual theory classroom, so it can come across as arbitrary.

@@okayhonks I have always hated being told to follow rules without understanding them and this is a great example; if this had been explained to me I still might not have enjoyed doing this kind of thing, but I don’t think I’d have hated it on principle quite so much.

I'd be interested to see your take.

The melodic dictation was super easy, so that wasn't impressive, that was expected.

@@okayhonks Some of those "rules" really are outdated though. Today, no one really cares about the voices being independent. So no one cares about avoiding parallel fifths and octaves

Thank you for trying. Please keep trying to influence those around to open up on this subject

Ridiculous. I would totally fail this exam but I have all the theory I need to understand and negotiate any jazz standard. Madness.

I'm not American. I'm actually shocked by how easy AP Music Theory is. I learned all of these in primary school year 5 (11 years old).

@@PassionPno yeah the American system of music education is corrupt especially when they call Figured Bass irrelevant or archaic when actually it is superior to jazz 'theory'.

lol deaf ears. you know, cuz music.

Yes

Humble brag. Love it

As a street cleaner, it blows my mind that you can just do all this stuff off the top of your head. Now I know how people feel when I drive by in my street cleaner and the brushes at the front pick up all the litter as if by magic.

As an astronaught, this blows my mind that you can do this all off the top of your head. Now I know people feel when I start operating a state-of-the-art rocket ship and fly it to Venus.

@@hdtsquad3064 That wasn't my original intention but I'm not opposed to the satire it seems to have brought :')

Zamn did you take instrument lessons before you did the exam?

were you allowed to hum

Training. Specially when solfège is involved when playing fugues.

That sounds super cool though! I would love to hear some Bach inspired fugues

Disagree. This type of voice leading is very simple without sounding anything. You have chord tones to choose from and a very simple set of rules for which voice goes where. It is just math, and VERY few high school kids can sight sing this stuff correctly anyway, especially when you're getting into secondary dominants. Even if they thought it would "help" them, it would be more likely to cause errors than fix them.

@@backpacker3421 I couldn’t disagree more with you. Singing is SO incredibly helpful regardless of your skill level. I HAD to sing during my AP music theory exam and I was lucky I was alone in a room with the proctor.

To those that think you can sing during a dictation test in class, prepare to get dirty looks from your classmates at the least. Be careful of the percussionist, they might beat you up for singing during the test.

Audiate, audiate, audiate. Also: you can use your breath to breathe “on pitch”

Audiation, as mentioned before, is the way to go. This is where learning to hear intervals in your head comes in handy. Sometimes very quiet whistling works too. Or, for a pianist like me, playing an invisible keyboard helps me hear the chords in my head.

Jer he’s got this 💪

Jer he's adam neely

im dominating for him to pass

Dude I bought your undertale album and it was fire

to BASS*

in all fairness, the man's a jazz musician and generally you have to be very knowledgable with the notes and their relation to scales and stuff this is coming from a jazz pianist myself (not that skilled btw, no stress)

was scrolling looking for this comment

@@Matthewparkeroden same

@@Matthewparkeroden Yep, same. But it's still impressing considering that he's speedrunning.

@@colonelburak2906 I mean he had a Masters in Music in Jazz Composition. This is a high school test. He should be pretty good.

You mean the F that should be a G? Heard it as well. But then, how come Adam got 9/9 on that one?

I think you could. The amount of correct answers needed to get full marks is about 50%. Which just shows how pathetic the curriculum is.

I took the AP Music Theory exam as a junior in high school without having taken the course, as it wasn't offered in my school. I had no idea what part writing was, but transcribing music/ ear training came easily for me. In the end, my results showed a 4 on aural skills, and a 1 on non-aural skills.

i'm taking 4 exams this year and i also am a self study for music theory. what tips do you have?

@@nyancat4330 My go-to strategy was always to take practice tests, each time going back and reworking the questions I got wrong. That's probably easier to do now than when I did my APs back in 2008/2009. I don't think I ever had access to a full AP Music practice test, just bits and pieces.

@@karawethan thank you! i did a bunch of practice tests for music theory and I'm looking at a 3 right now. I have the test in two hours haha

Could you say more on this? I'm sure many like myself (having never taken the exam) would be interested.

@@pwhqngl0evzeg7z37 I actually took one like a few months ago, and there's a sight singing part where they give you a little 4 measure melody you have to sing, as well as what I like to call the trivia section, a series of multiple choice questions about some audio excerpts and the theory features they use.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

Music education is not equal to talent in any way

It’s not talent btw, just experience

@@burhlmao540 Talent has a very broad meaning, and its meaning has changed like 50 times throughout history. Basically, talent could just mean skill, so experience.

@@MM-vs2et and which meaning are we talking about

THANK YOU ! that drove me crazy, I wasn't seeing anyone commenting on that hahaha

elite commenters

Points revoked, test failed

If truth is elitism I'd hate to be right...

Came here to say this, actually thought it was wrong before and looked for it. I’m proud of myself.

on the AP course and test it does, but in my university they were separate courses

They're separate courses in college, but definitely intimately related skills.

My university had them as a pair of courses that met at the same time in the same classroom on alternate days, and it was strongly encouraged to take them together

you must pass both. it is required "by law". dictation on 18th century melodies & harmonies is considered necessary.

I was looking for the comment clarifying the P5 to d5 Great!

I was taught the mnemonic to remember it: it’s P diddy ( perf to dim) NOT diddy P (dim to perf).

You are right, more than an octave will thin the voicings and be incorrect, though there are rare exceptions, particularly betwen the Bass n the rest of the voicings. The best way to think of all voice leading is through counterpoint though. Unfortunately, not all music schools teach theory through counterpoint.

lol your teacher sounds like a boss. i was taught police department(p-d) is good

Totally agree with your point about the consequences of emphasising gradable testing; but also to add that this is a highly reductive view of 18thC european music anyway, the long rule book and the stressing over minutia is not how that era's musicians conceptualised their music at all. All these kinds of tests, i'm pretty sure, are derived from people tirelessly studying Bach chorales which is nice but this level of strictness is only directly applicable to one genre within the work of one composer. Furthermore, as someone who is studying actual basso continuo practice, it's quite jarring to see figured bass used in this context and along side roman numerals, it's a complete reduction of the role figured bass is meant to have within it's own historical context to just a nonsensical way of indicating inversions.

@@contrapunctusmammalia3993 that is a great point. all of these "rules" are just the things that made one composer great. Imagine if we studied the Beatles and said "hmm, it seems like Ringo always plays the drums with a swashy sounding hi-hat" and then music school tested drummers based on how swashy their hi-hats sound. maybe someone else can come up with a better analogy lol.

@@NoahStolee it's like if we studied Joh Williams and went "hmm John Williams always does this with the brass in the Star Wars Motif" and grading was based on how well you composed like John Williams

These aren't intended to be exercises in making art. They are fundamental exercises to teach you how and WHY voice leading works the way it does. They are like little etudes for voice leading. Because they are etudes, there are right and wrong ways to execute them. There's also PLENTY of "wrong" voice leading in jazz theory. Finally, learning the fundamentals of your craft is NEVER busy work. It is honing a tool you use to make your art. As for schools biasing their teaching towards it.... this voice leading makes up about one semester of ONE freshman level class in an entire degree field. That's hardly a bias.

@@backpacker3421 Honestly fully agree, I personally really enjoyed the class and as a composer it’s helped me understand the framework of music theory and how voice leading works no matter in what setting. I never regret taking it. I do wish it covered more topics however probably like first semester rigorous ear training and figured bass/composition exercises Second semester: visiting different cultures and how they interpret music kinda like Art Hustory

I would love school if we had that. I don’t think will happen though because the school system doesn’t care about that unfortunately. I wish jazz was better represented

@@ucopiedyibo1959 the weird thing is I basically only ever hear about music theory from people with a jazz background.

Disagree, AP classes are a huge scam put on by college board

@@KnowledgePerformance7 Wdym? It's a great way to get college credit. Dual credit and IB are the alternatives, and they're not accepted at a lot of schools, especially if you go to a different state. When I entered college I had almost all of my non-major credits and base-level course credits out of the way because of AP classes. Calc I & II, Physics I & II, 2 English credits, a History credit, and an Economics credit.

@@porgy29 and it’s always that way because jazz music is the most diverse and culturally defined out there in the world.

What’s IB? Is that European?

@@potentialcaroozin2385 it's the international system

That’s really cool, what did you study?

@@kaitlyn__L so I chose to study a range of genres (leaning mainly towards recent times), from progressive metal to film music prepared pianos and even memes!

@@matankesselman456 that’s so cool! If I was given that chance I probably would’ve tried to study the overlap between jazz progressions and early-90s techno, acid, house etc if they’d let me. But they might’ve demanded something more general. I do love film and video game soundtracks, it’s nice they didn’t say “film music isn’t real music” like so many still sadly do. I’ve always liked the prog I’ve heard, but never remember to seek out more of it. I definitely should.

"it is helpful to have the basic chorale chops for choral writing/arranging" ill keep that in mind incase the marquess of worceshershire drops by

@@clayghost1290 Ahh, I was really hoping for the Duke of Earl. (Nice vibe and production on your tracks, btw)

i have nothing unique to add, except to say that this was extremely well written and i enjoyed reading it

I think it's that moment where it becomes a survey course which is problematic. Perhaps if we just came to grips in education and called a spade a spade and didn't call it, as David Elliott might, "capital M" Music theory that we could offer a survey course in general music principals from various disciplines, but good luck getting the majority to see it as an inclusive approach to theory rather than being confused as a theoretical lens to "World Music." A course many have to take in college which is just a brochure for the actual existence of music in diverse cultures. There's many points to be made, but I agree that with decreased specificity to make room for a more broadly encompassing curriculum, you do lose some of the finer points. Hell, the reason we are all here in the comments after watching someone else pontificate on the matter probably is rooted in our collective training in 18th century western music traditions and took it upon ourselves to learn more, ask questions, and experience the things our education didn't include. I'm of two minds. There still should be a course in traditional 18th century music theory because it is worth studying and is the foundation for a vast amount of musics we listen to, engage with, or what have you, but it should be presented as one of multiple disciplines for music. Also, too, the broadened curriculum for those who want it, though I'm sure some would argue it wouldn't serve the majority of students and may be a niche, one off course. Then again, one could argue, too, that if someone was educated in every way possible that they would be [whatever virtue that may bestow more lofty than a singular education in a specific practice.] Who's to say? Look at how Coltrane studied in his formative years. Flash forward to why he named his kid Ravi. Would Shankar have had the same impact on Coltrane without his intense study into a specific discipline and had that from which to try and understand? It's all a fun philosophical debate, but what change to education do we want in this regard?

​@@mikehayden7691 Good points. It's interesting because graduate work theory courses are nearly always survey courses unless under the "Special Topics" umbrella (a faculty member's interest) or.... if it's Schenkerian Analysis. And the traditional advanced undergraduate courses continue to go in depth into historical European practice with "Form and Analysis" and "Counterpoint." Fun facts here: because "Form and Analysis" is sometimes optional in a curriculum, most universities have it embedded into their music theory curriculum, making it redundant. "Counterpoint" is usually 16th or 18th century counterpoint, and if the latter, is singularly focused on J. S. Bach in many instances. The other standard course is some version of "20th Century Techniques," which is a survey course that often leans on serialism (with a glaring omission of jazz harmony). I bring this up because it would be refreshing to have a required in-depth study of a non-classical tradition for a semester of undergraduate studies, maybe something like an independent study where the students choose a path they are interested in and commit to learning everything they can about it over the semester. There might be a guide to make sure that the student is regarding the role of melody, harmony, rhythm, nuance, flow, structure, articulation and character, storytelling, timbre, production, evolution of style over history, etc., which has research checkpoints each week where the teacher gives feedback. The students come together and share their findings along the way. In-class time could be about broadening views on what music is and can be, focusing on each of the elements above. I would LOVE to teach that class. Like you say, I really loved the deep dive into one style of music and how that has helped me learn how to appreciate the depth of other styles of music. It's a tricky question, and I do like your idea of multiple paths. Cal Arts does this, as does U Miami in a way, and I think Colorado State (or U of Colorado) has such a program (and there are several more too--probably 10-20 that are looking that direction). Smaller departments cannot handle such divisions to core classes because of how universities are set up unfortunately. May I nerd out? I'll be honest, my ideas above were how I negotiated with the curriculum I had. I inherited a three-semester theory core where NASM recommended to the department that 20th century music be cut for more time for 18th century theory. As a composer, I couldn't stand the idea. So, I tried to do everything possible to streamline the music theory core. I found the ideas of partimenti, simplified by the idea of harmonic paradigms in Laitz's book, as a shortcut to helping students learn voice leading and do analysis. We had a rough understanding of all types of chords by the third week of semester 2 along with phrase function, and then we trodged through the forms (sentence, period, binary, ternary, sonata, rondo) for half a semester. Admittedly, we could have spent more time on some form topics, but I don't think the nitty gritty has ever been useful to me. Then, we spent the last 3 weeks on blues and jazz (with review interspersed). This would have led into late Romantic ambiguity, 20th and 21st century techniques (classical), and theoretical ideas on popular music for about 2 weeks to end the semester. Oh, how that fourth semester would have been savored. Now, what if we reframed theory and used different styles of music as case studies of more inclusive topics? For example, take structure, flow, character, mood, and surprise as five focal points. We go deep into the significance of each of these, and we demonstrate how each of these more universal attributes in music is valued and expressed in various styles of music. Perhaps an entire semester is on flow (or the perceived passage of time). There's a big focus on voice leading, but we also delve into how rhythm, timbre, and melody affect flow. Structure: yes, some classical forms but a more general look at how repetition, variation, contrast, and melodic "through lines" create order and excitement as desired. These topics also can have a psychological basis that is very hard to flesh out when stuck in 18th century mode. We might lose some of the details of one genre, but then we can replace "Form and Analysis" with "Advanced Tonal Harmony" so that students may choose to have that in-depth understanding. But the core curriculum would give them enough to pass any graduate entrance exam while allowing them to understand Music quite a bit better than before they entered in (and probably better than their older peers who didn't take such a class). Happy to keep the conversation going... find me on Facebook.

That's especially true if one has a melody that is on the third or seventh, but does something other than resolve to the root or third. In that case, it's better to double the melody note in a line that does resolve to the root or third than not have a note fulfilling that role.

You can ommit anything you want, as long as it doesnt violate the rules of harmony. But, If you ommit the 5th in a V7, it will weaken the dominant motion to I, since the dominant will be absent. This would also alter the chord and make it really more of a vii diminished, which again is a weaker resolution to I, unless intended on purpose for a compositional reason. Ommiting the 5th in I, in a V7 to I, is possible, but not sure why again you would want to weaken the dominant motion to I, since the 5th is the V going to I. There are proper resolutions from V7-I. Not sure why the voice leading wouldn't work otherwise, which you mentioned in your comment?

@@composerinny2160 In a major key, the fifth of a V7 chord is the second scale degree of the underyling key, and would be halfway between the root and third of a following tonic chord. If the root is approached from below and the third is approached from above, having the fifth of the V7 chord sitting halfway between them doesn't cement the harmony nearly as much as the other notes in the chord.

@@composerinny2160 I mean the fifth of the chord, not the fifth of the key. And the problem with fully voicing V7-I is that after resolving scale degree 5 to 1 in the bass and resolving each functional dissonance, scale degree 2 must resolve to 5 which results in a parallel 5th with the bass.

@@travo6805 Ok so you are basically asking how to resolve the 5th in a V7 chord , the 2nd degree note, which in solfege is "Re"? If we are in C major, that 2nd degree note would be a D in the V7 chord. It does not resolve to 5! Why are are suggesting it resolves to the 5? The rule is that 2 (Re) resolves to the tonic, which is 1, or can resolve to the third, though then u would be doubling with the resolution of 4, which resolves to the third too. But essentially, the 2 resolves to 1, and not 5! There are contrapuntal rules that need to apply with resolutions. So in a C major V7 chord, G in the bass resolves to 1. B natural resolves to 1. D, the 2nd resolves to 1, or 3 depends. And the F, the 4th, resolves to 3, which is E.

yeah seeing that definitely flicked a switch for me too. I never thought to compare the two before!

Have to disagree with you there. For me, that video is a textbook example of the way that artists co-opt and trivialize actual political struggles. It turns issues with real material consequences for people into aesthetic concerns. IIRC the video’s example of non-western music came from India, and the style has been promoted in India by far right Hindu nationalists who have engaged in anti-Muslim and anti-Christian violence. So there are some pretty deep ironies in the video, right? Criticizing western exclusion of an Indian style of music which is itself used for exclusionary purposes. By being inclusive of this style in the West, are we promoting exclusion elsewhere. These issues go unnoticed by artists making these criticisms because their engagement with politics is, at best, superficial and at worst, cynical and self-interested.

Yes and no. If you want to study world music, there are courses for that... OTHER courses, including MUSIC HISTORY (why are we comparing Music Theory to Art History - apples and oranges). Trust me, if you tried to fit music theory at this level from even TWO major styles into just one high school course (even AP level), most students would fail miserably, or you would have to be so superficial as to make it completely useless. If you tried to fit a third major style in, NOBODY would be able to pass. And this particular style of voice leading is the elementary level of the style that directly led to jazz, pop, rock, blues, etc etc etc. Without this, there is none of that. It is MUCH harder to learn that art history, which is why they can fit a global survey into an art history course and still expect students to succeed. I've been teaching this stuff longer than today's college seniors have been alive. Trust me.

@@altovideom Do you not see the irony in calling out artists for co-opting and trivializing "actual political struggles" when you just willingly let fascists co-opt actual art? I don't think the fact that fascists are obsessed with classical art, or that nationalists are obsessed with art from the culture theyre trying to promote, delegitimizes that art. And the video was from a western perspective, talking about how different ideas of musical harmony are not talked about. Not to mention that the music traditions that he referenced were partially referenced because they were well-documented on youtube by people he respected. I don't think Adam pushing forward music supported by Hindu supremacists means he hates Dravidian or Arab music. I think it's just that there's a fucking billion Hindi people and many of them speak English, so it ended up being more likely for there to be one on youtube that he respected. Also, it's a bit fucked up, don't you think, that you're implying that the fact that he showed a variety of Hindi music somehow implies some connection to how that Hindi music is used by right wing politicians? Like, it's a bit like asking every Jew you know how they feel about Palistinians because you just assume theyre anti-arab. If Adam showed Hassidic music traditions or something, would you have the same response? Not every Indian has to prove themselves to you. It's a bit like saying you can't complain about anti-Chinese bigotry because Chinese nationalists are racist to Uyghurs

@@heckoff7904 my point is that the essay is simplistic and that Adam’s embrace of Hindu music was ironic. The irony lies in the fact that Adam is *not* fascist, yet *unknowingly* embraces a tradition which has been put to fascist purposes. I agree with you that we shouldn’t simply reject a tradition because of how some people use it, but neither should we blindly embrace it. It’s a complex issue that gets lost because Adam views it through the lens of conventional vs avant-garde art.

In this context it'd be better labelled as V(64-53) anyway.

Back when I was studying networking around 2015, I remember we had to learn some very old routing stuff, googled it to see if it was still relevant, and found a forum post asking the same question. The forum post was 15 years old!

The moment you make something the subject of a graduate degree, it starts to crystallize. This is not unique to music.

I am always bemused to find algorithms, datastructures, or concepts that debuted long after my education. For example, ICA is from 1984. I was still in school when k-d trees were invented (1975). Nearly all of computer graphics-Phong Shading appeared in 1973 as his thesis and in 1975 as a CACM paper. I was at Symbolics when Craig Reynolds developed the Boids flocking algorithm in 1986. Much of functional programming, such as applying category theory. Most networking concepts! And that's just over the past half-century.

I often find the topics in a curriculum that may seem "outdated" or "irrelevant" are underappreciated for the indirect preparation that is gained by studying them. It's not so much the particular content (which, though possibly outdated, still shows logical connections to more immediate interests) which is the best takeaway, but rather the way it makes you think and generally the way it strengthens your brain which is the useful takeaway. Hence why CS undergrads study calculus they likely won't use, etc.

@@pwhqngl0evzeg7z37 Funny you should mention calculus & CS. As an MIT CS undergrad, and then as sponsored research staff for 4 years, I worked in the Macsyma symbolic algebra group. Macsyma is much better at calculus than I am, ever was, ever will be. For that matter, my wife and kids are, too. But I think of processes in terms of differential equations. I've helped my wife understand the Navier-Stokes fluid equations for her Hollywood special effects. I found my then-teen daughter had found and written the Kendrick & McKormack SIR epidemiology equations on the board and knew immediately what they described. Any chance of me finding a closed-form integral for either? No way! Closed-form solutions are available for only a tiny subset of problems! They are great and valuable, but in the real world, you'll generally need numerical methods. (Those have their own pitfalls of course). I studied Counterpoint from composer John Harbison at MIT. I haven't written much if any counterpoint in the nearly 50 years since, but it still informs my music as much as any broader view of music theory I've learned since. I do wish I had learned more modern theory, but I took it because, well, I like Baroque music. To my way of thinking, the only reason to object to learning something is when it displaces learning something more valuable. Every teacher should continually ask themselves, "is this the best use of the student's time and attention?". And, of course, the student should ask the same. I think it is really hard to make that case for figured bass. Voice leading and ear training both have a claim on a student's time and attention, to be weighed against a world of possibilities.

it resolves outwards in the next chord which is common practice. within a dominant 7th chord, there will always be a tritone between the 3rd and 7th.

And that's also kind of wrong.

@@timothystamm3200 It's just one option out of many :)

@@SunePors1 I mean that teaching that as the only way is a gross oversimplification.

@@timothystamm3200 Agreed.

Were the quartet arrangements for 3 Hits and a Miss?

Yeah it’s by far the hardest part, how th am I supposed to notice that there’s a seventh in an inner voice on a tiny ass 8th note passing chord lol

It's marked pretty generously, but that one has no tricks you just have to practice for hours

@@travo6805 because you would hear a second or seventh, a dissonance and there would also be 4 notes instead of 3.

@@travo6805 Because tritone.

Meanwhile, I've seen your Little Wing cover and, well.....

When can we expect a collab? That would be just awesome!!

@@Guicosac they already did one. Look up dread machine. It kicks ass!

shouldn't you be off in a corner flexing your money somewhere

@@andrewnicon I've seen it recently too, because someone on GuitarCircleJerk subreddit mentioned it, lul.

Thanks! I scrolled for a long way down to find someone else who saw that!

@@Snowspader Lul, me too but it wasnt sucessfull ;D

I love this question

I meant question 5 not 4

Good observation on the spacing. My objection to Adam's solution was the parallel fourths between the top voices. Not illegal, but certainly not recommended.

the alto/tenor also needed to be changed for voice leading, the leap wasn’t resolved by step in the opposite direction

In German we say: "rein vermindert, ungehindert. Vermindert rein, das lass sein." Which basically means from pure to diminished is fine but not the other way round.

They're called "un-equal fifths"

@@alexanderschuhmann5193 I was searching for this sentence and I was not disappointed :D

Sounds like high school lol. I took AP calc and I still understand some of the concepts but there's no way I could actually do any of that math hah

@@KhGoosey facts 😭

same - figured bass left my brain the second i finished that test

I agree with you - it’s not so important whether this form of harmonic part writing is in current use, but that the current use of western music - including jazz - has its roots IN this form of harmonic part writing. Figured bass is not too far from jazz notation - in a jazz player’s brain they’ll see for example A7/C#, and think, “ok the C# is the third”, then fill in the gaps from there, being sure to create a complete chord. Figured bass nomenclature does that for you, giving you the exact intervals needed to create the chord that’s needed. Two more points are important to consider - this style of writing largely represents music written for choral music - consisting of 4 voices - literally, voices. The voice leading conventions used are there at least in part in order to enable smooth melodic lines to be sung while subsequently creating a rich harmonic and complete sound “vertically”. That’s the second point I was going to make - counterpoint in fact, is the operating word here. Adam is more often than not looking at his harmonizations from a vertical perspective - that’s a bit of a trap that jazz players can fall into. They forget that we’re talking about real voices singing 4 melodic lines - the block chords from a vertical point of view are almost a by product of the contrapuntal melodic movement. Those chords are in fact secondary to the melodies within the parts. That’s why Adam’s omission of the D# in the penultimate B7 chord was obvious even before he played it. The 3rd of the V7 travels upward to the root of the tonic (or in this case the 3rd of the vi). That’s a melodic movement that creates a melodic - and therefore harmonic - imperative, it’s not just a note in a single chord at a single moment - it has direction and momentum melodically that creates a result in the subsequent moment. Those principals are why this style of writing IS relevant today, no matter what style of music you are playing for a living. Do you want to write harmonies for a country hit record? Do you want to write a string orchestra backdrop for a dramatic film scene? Do you want to have mastery over your choices in putting together a horn section passage in a funk tune? That’s when spending a good bit of time studying Bach chorales will pay dividends. It’s like a writer studying Shakespeare, or a biologist studying Darwin, or a physicist studying Einstein and Newton. We stand on the backs of giants, and forgetting that can lead to you falling over.

​@@steveberry7264 thanks for your comment! i agree with most of your points, but saying that modern musicians can benefit from studying bach chorals is not really a relevant statement. because, sure, one might say, you benefit from EVERYTHING that you study. the object of your studying doesnt really matter in terms of whether you get something out of it or not. one could make a point that modern musicians should rather spend their time studying the music and (theoretical) instruments of modern music, since this is what they intend to learn and get good at. this is to give the devil it's dew. BUT: saying that early theoretical frameworks are outdated and archaic, and even worse, they are limited to a certain cultural background, implies a form of eliticism in music education, that dictates the agenda of musical education institutions in a way, that is, so to speak, "colloniaslistic", or even "racist"? this is actually a common trope that some modern musicians tap into, without really having a second thought about it, since western culture is by definition problematic in that sense, right? maybe. but in terms of music theory, i think you should take theoretical frameworks as what they are: they are ideas for discussing the nature, functionality and structure of music, while always trying to answer the question that many many musicians ask themselves even today: "why does this music sound so good? What is it, that makes me want to listen to it again and again?". this question is relevant as long as there is music being played or listened to. this is what music theory is. its not a tool for opression, but a forum for curious and knowledge-driven musicians. dismissing certain ideas as politically problematic or "too old", limits our possibilities of using them, which is such a shame. this brings me to my final point: there is no perfect music theory. sadly. there is no single framework that can describe music from the middle ages, machaut's mass, palestrina motets, bach chorals, romantic symphonies, french modal music, "early" modern music like schönberg, jazz, pop, rap, metal, electronic music etc. you could take a simple chord, consisting of the notes C E G Bflat, present it to musicians of different genres, ask them to describe what they hear/see, and you would get many different answers. To some its a V7, to others a simple 3/5/7, some might not even call it a "chord", but a "sound", others might ask questions about specific tuning systems and note-frequencies, since their answer would depend on that further information... the interesting thing is: most of those systems imply certain assumptions about music as such: the V7-people imply that there is such a thing as functional relations between chords and sounds, the 3/5/7-people imply a certain scale that is "common" to use, the "sound"-people imply that specific notes and pitches are equally as important to a piece of music as other sounds, that might not even be describable with terms like note and pitch (e.g. the sound of a helicopter (stockhausen) or percussion-like sounds without pitch). we should all be more aware of what assumptions about music we make by using a certain system to describe it. and i find that figured bass is quite a neutral way of describing chords in a given scale, which doesnt imply too many assumptions at all....

also, let me sum up the rules for reading figured bass real quick: 1. There is always a 3 in the chord, except when there is a 4. 2. There is always a 5 in the chord, except when there is a 6, or a 4. When the 4 is just a suspension that resolves to the 3 within the same chord, a 5 has to be added instead of the 6. 3. a single "#" or "b" always refers to the chord's third. 4. The rest is just counting intervals 5. Examples: (the "1" stands for the written bass note) "6"=1+3+6 (adding a 3 and a 6 to the written bass note) "5/6"=1+3+5+6 (adding a 3, a 5 and a 6 to the written bass note) "3/4"=1+3+4+6 "2/#4"=1+2+#4+6 " "=1+3+5 (when nothing is written, its just a normal triad) "#"=1+#3+5 "#/b5/#7"=1+#3+b5+#7 "7/#9"=1+3+5+7+#9 i hope that is helpful for someone :D

With this test, the first 4 questions or so (those dealing with listening to music and writing what was heard) was by far more essential to musicians and composers. Since aural skills can be applied anywhere and everywhere. The latter parts of the test were all testing knowledge of a rather specific time period and region of music. Not quite as useful as the aural skills. All this to say, I do agree with you. This test (specifically the knowledge needed to pass it) is a good basis and introduction into the music world and its language. But it is nowhere near comprehensive enough to be THE music theory exam. Music is an art at the end of the day, and this exam treats more like math than art. Sure, the music theory exam is easy to grade and is even satisfying to listen to (music created from this specific set of music theory that is), but it feels like it's obeying the letter of the law, but not the spirit of the law.

It's not really necessary to use cursive to learn any one of fine motor control, spelling and word/sentence formation though. Unless "cursive" and "writing by hand in general" got mixed up in here?

Jazz chords tend to be more complex and open to interpretation, which may be why they’re excluded from this course

@@wonderstruck. Often, the notation also doesn't necessarily indicate a "function" of harmonic movement, also. So, I get not *only* using chord symbols. But the "if the sharp appears before the roman numeral, award no credit" is the part that bugged me more. You're using notation that indicates function, but ONE element of a different representation got in there... so "all wrong?"

@@Copperhell144 Cursive goes a bit further in a lot of these for a few reasons: 1. Because you're not picking up the pencil, you're maintaining that fine motor control in longer sequences. 2. Because the word is a "single" movement, you're required to visualize the word a bit more to ensure good spacing. 3. Because of the continuity, you also can't pause or go back in the middle of a word. You either get the word right, or you're most likely going to erase and start the whole thing over. It's not that it's the best or only way to learn, but there are "hidden" benefits to it that amplify some of what you can get from simple handwriting, which is one of the reasons it has persisted and made comebacks beyond the "it's tradition!" folks

When I went to college for Music Tech, they had everyone going for a Music degree take 4 semesters of music theory. The first 3 were about 18th century European music, but the 4th semester differed. The 4th semester covered 20th century experimental music, and didn't even touch upon 18th century European music aside from the 1st week. I personally believe that learning what this Music Theory AP exam tests for is valuable to learn (if only as an introduction into music, to learn the language so to speak) especially the aural portion of the exam, but it definitely isn't the "end all, be all" of music.

Maybe teach a more general harmonic concept, but use the terminology of 18th century music when it makes sense. Use the terminology of Broadway or Nashville or New Orleans when that makes more sense. Show how all these traditions emerged in parallel and somewhat in response to one another, and how they very frequently are putting different names to the same concepts that the student only needs to wrap their head around once rather than twice. I64 vs. second inversion tonic vs. C/G vs. I/V: they all carry the same information, minus the genre-specific things you just have to pick up by experience.

Your right, but firstly he is talking about the harmonic style of 18th century European music voice leading and not voice leading all together. It's actually a core element in the genre that he plays in which is jazz, it's just that it's a different kind of voice leading. Secondly, he says there's nothing wrong with those things anyway, it's just that it only shows 18th century European styles of doing them and not branching out to other areas of music.

​@spacenexo5654 It's all an extension of this system. It only changed in some ways, but most of the core principles are intact. And it's useful knowing what it evolved from.

Figured bass has its uses in church music (if you play a keyboard instrument), especially if you're improvising or learning to improvise. I've personally found it useful for quickly jotting down an idea when I don't have Finale easily accessible as well.

Can you tell me more? I am nearly incapable of identifying chords.

Man all we did at that age was badly honk Hot Cross Buns on the recorder, and get told about 'Every Good Boy Deserves Fruit' or whatever. It wasn't til like 15 years later that I realised the notes on the staff are just in alphabetical order. But they never told us that, too busy getting us to memorise silly acronyms for the specific notes on the lines or gaps.

This. Yes. I taught a 6 year old to identify major, minor, suspended, major 7th, minor 7th, and diminished chords by ear and he just had fun with it like it was no big deal to him, it's amazing what people are capable of when you keep the focus rooted in listening and identifying sonic characteristics rather than describing theoretical concepts and forcing memorization of the functions of concepts before you can audiate them or even recognize them when they're played for you

Fascinating, and exciting. I took a similar approach with my younglings, but to art, encouraging them to look and see colour, shape and relationships. Both went on to take Art at A-level, despite being basically scientists. I wish someone had given me that grounding in music, my whole career might have been different!

Anywhere to learn this way online?

Music theory classes also require being able to play the piano with some level of proficiency (regardless of instrument major), being able to sing, and of course the ear training which was in part demonstrated here. Music theory classes in university encompass around 400 years of music development so it's a tad more broad than what was described here.

It is really bizarre. I went to music school in Canada and ear training is a completely different class to theory. We had Music history, Music theory, and Basic music skills. Basic music skills was dictation, piano skills, and sight singing. Theory isn't dictation. You are correct.

@@Uragaan1 I remember not qualifying for even my secondary school’s music programme because I played sax and was rubbish at piano at the time. Piano is easy enough to just pick up with practice once you have musical familiarity, unlike the sax (and I have in the years since with synthesisers), so if I’d have known ahead of time I probably could’ve put effort in before those classes. But it was pretty amusing and weird in hindsight, how I wasn’t allowed to show off my actual skill because everyone had to be compared linearly on the same keyboards. I remember being jealous of the kids who were on piano all along, which the kids who did trumpet at the time I did sax were also cheesed-off by.

AP Music Theory is basically a college level introduction course so it's going to be some really basic stuff. You gotta start somewhere.

Learning figured bass and the counterpoint that comes with it is actually super useful, it comes up more than you’d think just in terms of having better aural and compositional skills

True, my teacher taught it pretty well though and it was easy because of Adam's videos

I took a minor in this style of music theory and some stuff i still use while composing. Things like omitting the third when the third is in the bass.

I've taught AP theory for a while, though I taught them through counterpoint. Figured bass is really a crucial aspect in attaining understanding in beggining theory for students, where it only gets more complicated. Its not a lost art, and remains an important aspect of understanding tonality, which makes understanding things a bit simpler. If you learn figured bass through counterpoint, rather than just choral procedures, than it makes things much easier to understand. I understand that most of this is not easy at first, but it can be really interesting if someone is really looking to learn the language to compose properly, especially classical music.

Yeah I could hear my tonal teacher getting pissed watching that part

Isn't it also because you're supposed to "compensate" for leaps by moving stepwise in the opposite direction?

@@tasfa10 favoring opposite motion is a guideline more than a rule, on the other hand spacing exceeding the octave is a no no

There's also a parallel fourth in the soprano/alto voices from beat two to three in the first bar

@@TotalDESSSS parallel fourths are allowed

I noticed that as well. Minus one point for the improperly voiced chord, then you lose your voice leading points in & out the improperly voiced chord. That's minus 5 for a silly mistake!

Even at the time that wasn't necessarily true to the practice in chorales. 4 part in this style is essentially a practice form, not real composition.

I mean, it's not testing the actual skill, but two separate skills at once: do you know your figured bass numbers well (useful for labeling analyses, although not THAT useful) and do you know your four part writing rules.

@@loganstrong5426 Yes, it tests four part writing. Except that one usually starts from the melody. But if you absolutely need to test realizing from figured bass, you could give a violin melody and ask to write a right hand that does not clash.

It’s not about learning the specific skill (4 part writing from figured bass), but a formalized way of practicing a general skill (attention to multiple layers of individual voice movement and to compositional strictures).

Yeah at this point it’s an extremely specific skill that only becomes practical for continuo players in baroque HIP. Once a performer decides to specialize in that, sure, learn it. It can also be useful as a foundation for idiomatic classical-style improvisation, but again that’s a tiny niche. But FB just doesn’t have any meaningful foundational/theoretical utility for the vast majority of composers or performers. We have better and more flexible methods to teach the same concepts. It’s just bizarre and asinine to focus so heavily on teaching this one ancient corner of music theory.

4 voice writing from figured bass is useless? Seriously? It's ment for practice reasons and it teaches you to understand how the voice direction, "stimmführung" works. So basically for you any composition of a choral in early style, or masses, etc are useless.

I'm not very well versed in music theory, but I thought about this since you gave the fingered bass names and the actual chords (like G/Cmin) and I was wondering if you'd normally call that chords a G/Cmin or have another name that relates it to the key in normal terminology.

From my experience as a Junior in music school, more than an octave between voices is okay, and the reason they wrote it differently was to avoid parallel fourths. I would guess that Adam's way of writing it would be counted incorrect because of this.

@@ethanoroshiba7652 as someone who took APMT this year, I have zero right to correct you and your experience, but having more than an octave is a big nono on this specific test… it’s a bit silly but it is what it is, they will mark you down if you have more than an octave between any two voices except tenor and bass

@@ethanoroshiba7652 For this style of music, having more than an octave between adjacent voices (other than tenor and bass) is a partwriting error.

(I grade this exam annually) parallel perfect 4ths are not an error, the spacing error is an issue for several chords

The problem isn't AP. It's colleges and music college accreditation. AP tests are ways of earning college credit, so they follow what colleges are teaching. Music schools at the college level across the US are forced to teach a certain set of curriculum to be accredited, which affects their funding. (Note that there are some good things about accreditation as well, such as requiring non-Western music to be taught as well.) Until accreditation either becomes more flexible or less 17-19th century Western-centric, then colleges will continue to have to budget part of their education efforts toward teaching the minutia of this specific tradition/framework. On one hand, it's important that ~someone~ learns these minutia. On the other hand, not ~everyone~ needs to learn the minutia.

@@cloudglider Ah I see, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining this. It's easy to make a blanket statement like I did without knowing more about it. I suppose this video highlights only a tiny part of music education and high school students are just stuck with this AP test as it is. It looks like there's a lot more freedom of what a student decides to study once they get into a music college.