Enjoyed the "tip of the hat" to Paul!

Indian is what lawyers call " A Term Of ART " and is used in government documents.. My Wife is Cherokee and uses the word Indian all the time.

If I remember correctly, original cases were a copper alloy, so being softer they would balloon a bit.

Thanks for the Paul Harrell shoutout!!

In a free country, I believe you should be able to.

In the muzzleloading era there were a lot of instances of people hammering on improperly sized lead balls, chewing on them, and carving them with knives to make them roughly fit down a barrel and fly forward in the general direction of the target. This is just the brass cased extension of that.

Good stuff and appreciate the support for Paul

That worked far better than I expected.

Cases that split like yours were found at the Custer battle field when a modern group of archaeologists and metal detectors swept the area. A number of different lead round balls, bullets, and cartridge cases were found indicating what the troupers were shooting, and the many different types of ammo the Indians were shooting(including iron trade points from arrows. National Museum of the American Indian, Smithsonian, 2000-2004.

This is not an advertisment for starline brass! 🤣🤣🤣

Watching those gas ports is scary. I honestly think the door wouldnt standup to that for an extended period.

The reason that the case doesn't balloon and split all the way up is that the chamber for .50-70 is significantly shorter than for .45-70. The top end of the case is actually into the throat, which, being smaller, doesn't allow it to expand. Conceivably, you could build a sleeve to fit around the .45-70 brass to take up the space between the case and the .50-70 chamber that would keep your brass from blowing out.

In a forced-to-do-it situation, I would probably use a knife or some other prying tool to remove the ruined brass. Great video!

156 years after this trapdoor was adopted you figured out how to make a muzzle unloader

Spontaneous Dynamic Disassembly expected.

Great video. In theory wrapping a thin piece of rawhide or leather around the brass would stop it from splitting out as I'm fairly certain that copper case 45-70 is unobtainium.

My first thought after your “experiment” was, for the indigenous to use the .45-70’s in the .50-70 rifle, would mean they would have to push out the ruined spent cases each time. That would be very slow and very cumbersome with follow up shots etc. However, second thought, the loading of a typical muzzleloader of that era would be much slower and just as cumbersome. So, can you imagine the guy having to do this in battle? He’s probly thinking “this piece of “&@$!” is gonna get me kilt…or however the indigenous folks talked back then…another great presentation! Thank you for your “potential” sacrifice of your 1868, im glad it and you survived to put out another video.

Interesting. I wonder what the effect copper cases would have on the outcome? The original cases were also balloon head as I recall. Thank you for being a professional, and the video did not suck!

Need a jell test now! With that 405 being unstable, bet it looks like a boat propeller going through. Accuracy was good enough, call it "minute of horse" accurate.

Everything is better with poptarts.

Would love to see a video on the new Goex that’s being produced and how it compares to some of your new blends. Also some smoothbore shooting would be cool to watch

The brass from the 1870’s was a lot softer than current made brass. I can understand why the Starline brass split. We every fun to watch

The original unsupported Glock chamber.....cool experiment señor

Hey! that didn't suck!! Thanks, great video!

Fun stuff...good to try something different every now and then. Thanks for the video, again very interesting and just plain fun!

That foggy environment made for some very good scenery. It probably helped the audio a bit too.

Interesting and informative as always.

Supposedly they have tracked someone using a 50/70 = 45 70 all over the custer battle field . Because of ruptured cases and firing pin strikes using modern forensics . M . B

It should be comforting to know that your rifle can fire both 45-70 and 50-70. Now all you have to do is build some form of sleeve that you can slip into the chamber that will allow you to fire the smaller shells without destroying the brass. Great video as always.

Very interesting results. Awesome video.

Great video! It's awesome to see that be tested out and proven to work. If you're ever in Tucson, check out the Arizona Historical Society museum - it's fantastic. Big thanks to them for the access they provided to Geronimo's rifle, that was an incredible experience.

This is like the 19th century version of the .40S&W/9x19 Glock mixup that demolition ranch tested. Surprised it was still somewhat accurate!

it is for sure interesting! thanks for doing this !

I appreciate that you are willing to try sketchy things tho haha. Makes for good entertainment

Great going Jake. Just when I was wondering what else you could come up with here you are. I sure did find it interesting.

That is indeed a fine-looking M1868. Many folks do not realize that the breechblocks on the '68 were dated the year of manufacture (or at least they tried to), with most dated 1869 -- but a few each in '68 and '70, prior to the adoption of the M1870. The front of the receiver is longer on the M1860 than on the M1870, the breechblock opening thingy (forget what they called it) is squarish on the '68, rounded on the '70, etc. Anyway, GREAT vid guys. Something I'd heard about before and always wondered about.

Did that with my Ruger 300 Win Mag by shooting a few 7 mm Rem Mag's buy mistake. I still hit a 6' target at 350 yards. The brass did form out too the 300 win mag chamber , but with a very short neck.

I figured the cartridge would go off (most of the time) but I was genuinely surprised that it was somewhat accurate.

In a real battle situation it can be done if you can't find the right cartridge, it's better than nothing, i wonder if it can be wrapped with some brass sheet or making a liner to fill the gap, as always great video!

This reminds me of trying 7.62 x 51 in a Russian 7.62×54 Mosin-Nagant. It worked, but the shell case was hideous.

Slightly off topic, I've had several #5 rolling blocks in 7mm. Since the modern brass I used always split necks, bodies and heads separated. Even with light loads and cast bullets. There is a whole interesting world of early cases and lack of saami specs. Thanks again for opening an interesting door in history.

Nice one! I love experimenting

I appreciate the PH tribute. He's an American icon.

One thing the rifling will never wear out and you didn't really want to reload that brass anyway . thanks for sharing

Definitely didn't suck, love the Paul Harrell hat tip. I will make my own damned video as well though. Awesome stuff Jake. Thank you. 👍

45-70 Government is a rimmed cartridge that headspaces on the rim, nothing new there. So having an undersized lead projectile rattling down the hallway is nothing new. had a fellow with a 30-06 who mixed up his ammo and was trying to zero with .270 Winchester. Nothing bad happened, but he was a wee bit embarrassed when he saw his problem.

Just for the experiment try wrapping sticky foil around the case, it might stop them splitting and you might get a slight increase in velocity.or it might jam in the breach 🤔

Nice. I love your uploads

Great video, have to say I suspected this would happen as I got the same split cases firing 22rf in 22mag chambers, along with difficult extraction many years ago. Still though I enjoyed the video!

Personally wouldn’t try it but I respect those willing to take the risk because I’m curious lol

I was always wondering what would happen if this went down, having seen the same video myself a while ago. However, I wasnt going to test it in my 1868 haha my hats off to you. Good to know since 50-70 brass basically doesnt exist.

Thank you for doing this for me. It's going to save me some brass.

Awesome video sir thank you for sharing this six stars

Re melt the busted brass. You dealt it ,so smelt it.

Years ago I learned that an old cowboy 'make-do' was to wrap undersized cases with paper until they were a tight fit in the chamber. Using a hollow base Minie to expand better into the bore might help a bit too...

Somewhere.....I can't for the life of me remember where I read it.....there is an army document stating something to the effect that in time of need, the .45 Colt could be loaded an discharged in the 1873 Trapdoor. I can testify that blanks will work, but it would be interesting to see how live rounds perform.

If it fits.... it ships. 😂

Very interesting Jake! Ive not seen anyone do this before. Im VERY surprised the .45-70 fired every time in this situation.

Any port in a storm or shoot any round that fits in the breech I guess when you have to!

I have read that some people would wrap the case with string and or paper to make shells fit. Maybe you would like to try that out.

You are a lot braver than me. I never even thought about firing a 45-70 in a 50-70 rifle. I used to have an 1868 trapdoor and wish I didn't sell it. And now you got me to thinking about the copper cased ammo that would have been available at that time, and would it have expanded, or would the results have been the same as brass? I really enjoy your content, keep up the great work. Just thought about the balloon head brass too and wondering if maybe it was a softer brass?

In the hood they use "bullet tape" so they can load .25 acp into a .38 revolver

I have had starline brass split ( brand new never fired before brass) in moderate 45 colt loads. I think if you are expecting any significant swelling starline should be anealed.

Thank-You!

The natives didn't reload, so they didn't care if that was the only ammo they could find to kill you with!

Holy Crap 😂😂😂😂 Awsome as always - Cleaning video? That 50-70 is filthy now 😁😁😁😁

I had the same result firing a 9mm in my Beretta 96 (40S&W) They take the same mags and I had a mag loaded with 9 even though I didn't have the model 92 with me.

Maybe JB Weld? Lol. Fun stuff.

Use what you have!

😂Ive kinda wondered before if a blk.powder 45 colt or Schofield would fire in a 45-70

Years ago, there was a rolling block for sale , on n auction site. It had the firing pin removed and a percussion nipple installed. I don't remember if it was used as a muzzle loader only or if you could use shells without a primer.

Had to giggle at the start of this video just sneaking the rifle from behind the couch 😂

Used to use cattail heads for tinder boxes for flint and steel. Best stuff. Maybe seperate the stock after char-coaling? I know nothing.

Now you have me wondering, would 577-450 chamber in a Snider? Shoulder might be too long...

Well, if you have no 45-70's to shoot in the first place, you probably wouldn't be concerned with reloading brass for them. Seems logical to use the ammo you have on hand in a pinch for whatever kind of performance it can give. All in all, under the original circumstances, not a bad idea.

A new view on fire forming brass😂 Mountain man

Im glad that have had a chance to explore you channel but Iv just heard that Google is going to take any gun channel off and remove all content.

I wonder if the old foil brass cartridges we're a little more expandable. I'm sure they expanded just like yours did but maybe the modern brass is a little a bit less forgiving when it comes to expansion inside an oversized chamber

My contribution to this.. experiment.. is slightly less impressive. A few years ago I reloaded .284 winchester with .308 brass and 7x57 load data. I made little bushings out of 1/2" od hobby tubing to center the cases in the chamber. I fired 20 cases and reloaded all of them 3x with the same 7-08/7x57 load.

You know I mentioned about using wood from an old whiskey barrel I'm curious as to how it will make black powder being seasoned with whiskey

Re size those in your dyes and reload them. I’d love to see if they work again in a 45-70 rifle

There is also an account of an African safari giving the native guards , ' akaris ' snider 577s. With 450 - 577 ammo . And that they regularly brought down game for camp meat . M. B.

So, it works fine in a severe pinch. But could you make it work *fine*, if you were in that pinch and had a little more time? I'd probably wrap that bullet in a cloth strip enough that it jams in there tight, maybe tie the nose... get it "cloth patched" basically, and then wrap the cartridge in a strip of thin leather just long enough to center it in the chamber. Others have brought this up too, but that brass is modern and more tailored towards smokeless and looking at it, potentially high pressure loads. The case webbing is quite deep and I bet the brass is fairly hard. Also just an offside thought... how close is the 45-70 projectile AND case neck diameter to the bore diameter of the 50-70? You might score the brass behind the bullet deeply and get it to fire with the neck around it like a driving band, maybe score a fraction of an inch further back than the bullet base and have it act like a gas check too.

That poor brass 😢😂

actually i figured the cases would be harder to knock out than that and split more towards the mouth!

I often look at the developments from the 1860s to early 1900s and the huge developments in firearms! I have a Swedish Mauser made in 1899 it’s a five shot rifle it’s as accurate as any modern rifle made today and as reliable and in my opinion better made ! Then most of today’s rifles

Adding the music improved the HEY Y'ALL WATCHISS Mentality in videos like this.

I will NOT be sharing this info with the my American Legion Post. Even just shooting blanks, they don't need to blow up all their brass. But it was fun to watch. Thanks.

That's how all of my Bertram brass cases look anyway.

my granddaddy told me in the depression that they could not get 12 ga. shells but they could get 20 ga. he said they would take a 12 ga. and cut the tube off the brass and slide the 20 ga shell in the tube and use it in single and double barrel 12 ga guns,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

More fun.

I never thought black powder would be so interesting

You can patch those 45-70 brass with JB Weld! Will be good as new

Nice! Basically, if I understand correctly, the case splits just because the case is undersized, not because the bullet is undersized, correct? If somebody would wrap the case to make it fit better in the chamber that could probably prevent the case rupture? Also, the bullet being undersized doesn't seem to affect too much the accuracy? Am I correct about that?

I was just watching a video comparing BBQ charcoal. Have you ever tried BBQ hardwood charcoal lumps? Looks like charcoal someone would do themselves...

I see why it's so hard to find the 50-70 rifles, if the indigenous were using these and they only got one shot they probably just threw the rifle away after their one shot, if they are in the middle of battle.

Bit of an aside, but I remember reading about cases of gun crime in London where guys were wrapping rounds in plastic food wrap to make them fit the weapons they had. Revolvers I think. I’m not sure if they were successfully used or not, but the police had found this done on weapons they confiscated.

Nice video! Really enjoyed. Thank you. And hey, regarding putting your finger in the chamber and getting "soot" all over it - in the state of California you're touching substances known to cause cancer.

I wonder if the older balloon head rounds that were the real thin copper would have been easier to remove?

That’s interesting. I’m curious did you start missing because you filled the grooves up with lead or it just stopped shooting them straight?