If you keep making these, we the public will come to expect more.

I love how the camera goes to White's face whenever Wilson says something weird.

I so deeply love these two brothers in Christ and am grateful they are taking the time to do these conversations on such important theological issues. I also appreciate their modeling of Christian brotherly love and fair, dignified, scholarly dialogue on issues they often do not align on. God bless you, your families and your ministries!

Doug. I know it’s 3 years later but these discussions are so beneficial to hear. I could binge these for hours. Make more now!!!

Jeff Durbin introduced me to both Douglas Wilson and James White... this is like watching Jeff's dad and stepdad have a conversation at thanksgiving

My dear Brother Doug, I NEVER have to look up your vocabulary. I, like you, speak English. That is one of the very satisfying things about your broadcasts and writings; savory, satisfying and joyful things, they are. Many thanks.

I appreciate two grown men having a mature and well-balanced conversation. I pray I would also grow in my patience and charity with others for the goal of presenting the gospel to others as well.

This is a great discussion. I am a Protestant but gleaned a great deal from "The Everlasting Man" and "orthodoxy" by Chesterton.

Haha James face when Doug said “smells like Jesus”

Doug’s explanation of intellectual workarounds sounds like it’s more gracious to the intellectual Catholic than the simple-minded Catholic. Not saying the argument is wrong because of that, only that it sounds like an inversion of what James might say about simple Catholics who trust Jesus and don’t really get Catholic doctrine.

Great conversation!!! For the Glory of HIS Name 🙌

To Doug’s point about being edified & offended simultaneously while reading Chesterton, that’s exactly how I feel listening to these two lol. God bless them.

Oh my I have been looking forward to this.

God bless you both and God bless Mr. Chesterton. I, for one, cannot read his works without seeing Jesus on almost every page. “Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly.” GK Chesterton was light hearted. Far more zealous for his God than for the Roman Gospel. He was practically self taught and thus self deceived. Praise God he wasn’t saved because of his intellect and saved in spite of his sin. Blessed is the man whose sins the Lord will never hold against him.

Two of my most treasured brothers. You men keep the content coming. You’re leading by example as ministers on how to engage fellow believers that have different opinions and convictions, but ultimately both holding to the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

White's face when Wilson says, "It's spiritual wisdom that smells like Jesus." 15:20

More! More! More! Please continue this series.

Love these dialogues. May I suggest that their videos be a split-screen of the two of them instead of alternating shots? I think it would help in providing more context to their responses to each other when we see their reaction as the other speaks. Thanks.

As a recently converted Catholic myself, I enjoyed this discussion and often enjoy listening to Doug Wilson quite a bit. I think Doug is certainly among God's favored children and will have a place in Heaven, but I disagree with aspects of his theology and his understanding of history. But I would love a restoration of Christendom with the inclusion of the various faithful denominations of Christianity. How about this? I will pray for your everlasting salvation, and I will hope that you will do the same for me.

That was me, I was that very Protestant who held the Westminster confession and the Protestant faith in such high regard but was actually well and truly rotten and lost until Christ saved me by his grace and through faith in him. Hallelujah!

I've been waiting for a video like this for so long. Thanks so much! It has given me a lot to think about.

Really enjoying these videos, thank you Brother James and Brother Wilson, God bless you both, Soli Deo Gloria

It’s stunning how fast tacos derailed this conversation. 😂

I was really edified about this brotherly discussion. Keep it coming.

I read Chesterton. Even subscribed to The Chesterton Review for many years. I skip over some stuff but most of what he says (90+ %) makes me think and is really wonderful.

I love it when you both talk!

Keep these dialogues coming in future please, if God works in you both to be willing and able :) profoundly edifying interactions from two fatherly figures in Christ whom I deeply respect. Much love from South Africa

These are fantastic.

Just amazing, very edifying

Great conversation, it's nice to hear other, informed perspectives on who is and who isn't rightly considered a Christian.

I’m an instant Doug Wilson fan. What a WAY this man has with words!

I will say that I do love the respect that these guys hold for one another!

beautiful! Thanks my very much older brothers!

"Did we not prophesy in your name?...."

sweater vest dialogues is BEYOND genius of a brand!!! LOL

Love you both as you love God and His unchanging Truth. Don't ever believe you aren't appreciated mucho.

These are good. Been a lot of Protestant/Catholic dialogues lately, which is what brought me here.

Keep it going!

Love this talk. Keep them coming! People need to see that two brothers in Christ, who do so much for the faith, can disagree and not kick each other out of the kingdom

Thank you!

That was great, thank you!

Many of the best Catholics are former Protestants. I’ll keep praying for you guys!

That was informative fun. 😄

Doug is doing the equivalent of someone 100 years from now. Reading Jordan Peterson stuff and saying that he has a high confidence level that Peterson is in heaven because of what he got out of him.

Remember that "Sola Salvation" is not one of the five Solas of the Reformation. Once you get saved, it's a hard journey toward sanctification.

For me this is a very timely subject. Very few understand the imputed/infused grace conundrum.

I’m a Catholic and think both of these men are well meaning. They think I’m a semi-Pelagian. I think they are semi-Nestorians.

Love the taco time crispy burritos.. And the video as a whole.

I'll normally can't stand White but I'll be honest I kind of like this discussion. I side with Wilson but there is a humility, warmth and respect here that I enjoyed.

To me the obvious distinction between those in the RCC who are saved and those who are not is the issue of pride. There are many who are persuaded of the dogmas of Rome by clever arguments but who at the end of the day just want to be faithful to Christ… and who come to believe that submission to the RCC is their duty. They are saved. There are others who are persuaded of the dogmas of Rome because of the self-righteousness it gives to them. They are in grave danger. But that is true of any denomination.

Must watch this later. I respect and love James White but as for Wilson I don't know that much about him, he seems to know his stuff.

As a former Catholic these discussions are very helpful to my understanding of the differences

Precisely because we trust Jesus and His commandments we believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church

How much mud and gravel can you pour into lemonade, before it's no longer lemonade?

love doug wilson and james white sounds like debates i have had i in general take doug wilson line on the issue.

It never ceases to amaze me that in all these years of debating Catholics and for all his supposed study of the Catholic Faith James White still peddles in the falsehood that indulgences are somehow a mechanism for salvation 45:52 It isn’t and never has been. It is a means of remitting the punishment of sin. The Catholic Gospel is the Gospel of St Paul. Trent’s formulation is soundly Biblical whereas forensic and imputation is foreign to St Paul. This one and the same Catholic Gospel is the Gospel of the early ages of the Church the one of the Fathers. They had salvation without a man made gospel of 1500 years later. Who in the first 1500 years of the Church taught this idea of forensic imputation? Or of faith alone as taught by Luther? Name one Church Father, Saint, Doctor, theologian, etc who taught or even hinted at it that could justify Luther’s doctrine? Listening to two Protestants discuss the Catholic Church is like listening to the women on The View. My apologies to The View for the comparison.

Christ alone is sufficient. Not Grace as necessary, but is all-sufficient.

27:38 - Me, whenever I see White and Wilson engage in dialogue 28:32 - Heh, that was great. 29:47, 30:10, 38:52 - Puritans and Chesterton 30:58 - CS Lewis and multiple rooms of Christianity 32:03, 33:07, 33:26 - Does Catholicism include Lewis’ view of multiple rooms? 36:21 - spiritual light and confrontation 37:02, 37:39 - peace, mortal sin, and Rome 37:52 - assurance 42:45 - BB Warfield 48:41 - necessity vs sufficiency of grace 52:47, 53:25 - assumption of evangelism or fellowship

The point of Dough about Chesterton is Chesterton acts like a genuine Christian but unaware that the Gospel light are not found in his confession of faith This seems to be a significant event in the life of Scott Hahn as well Thank you for the doing fleshing out Dr. White by bringing Dough Wilson From the Philippines

Nice podcast.

I’m a Catholic and I do find these types of videos interesting. Reminds me of the old joke, “two baptists are taking walks and meet paths while crossing a bridge.”

Conclusion: Wilson thinks Chesterton may be saved despite his Catholicism due to his enlightened thought

Arrivedete Rome lol just watched JW X Sungenis over the mass, and it was a massacre. JW was brilliant and i reggard this debate as one of his best. Sungenis is quite capable, bit agressive but very capable. And JW destroyed him completely! Thanks the Lord for both these guys. This ministry have being a blessing for me!!

Pastor Doug Wilson, the spiritual happiness that Chesterton had, sprung fourth from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which is made possible by the victory of Christ on the cross. The victory on the cross reconciled all of mankind to God. Now reconciled man can again eat of the fruit (sacraments) of the tree of life (cross). Through the sacraments established by Christ, we receive forgiveness, salvation, eternal life, spiritual strength, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Through the sacraments not only are we righteous in name but in actuality.

We are saved by correct doctrine because God leads us in all TRUTH

Dr White’s face at the revelation that there is a Taco Time in Moscow is tremendous! Lol

As a Catholic I always find it weird when people assume we are putting our faith in the Catholic Church, or in Mary herself. We are directly praying to Jesus Christ alone, that is where our faith is. Do you really think Jesus will be like "don't include my mother in your thoughts at all you idolater!" The Catholic church IS continuing apostolic tradition directly passed on from the apostles, how can we just ignore this institution that Jesus founded for us? And no, we are definitely not following Pope Francis. I wish Archbishob Vigano was the Pope though, but everything happens for a reason... maybe the Catholic Church needs Francis at this time for some complex reasons that we cannot see at this moment.

49:50!!!! You nailed me! You described my initial attraction to Orthodoxy, although not in the way I would’ve. If there were a strong Anglican/ Episcopalian communion in the US, I wouldn’t have ever gone that route.

Excerpt from John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book III, Chapter 21, Paragraph 7: "We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his PLEASURE one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his PLEASURE to doom to destruction." Ezekiel, Chapter 18, Verses 23, 32 (ESV): "Have I any PLEASURE in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? ... For I have NO PLEASURE in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; so turn, and live."

Both handsome men. I love sweaters!

"I had no idea they thrived in cold climates." Witty, James.

And I second Eric Badong’s request: adopt split-screen, a la Blogging Heads!

My mother, Catholic, places her trust in Jesus Christ. She is saved, though she wouldn’t use that term. She sees a distinction between her faith in Christ and the teachings of the Catholic Church. I think my theology is more correct than hers, but oh, if only I emulated Christ-likeness as she does.

in the same logic of dr.white , Augustine isn't saved cuz he believed in other gospel by believing in justification by works like roman catholics. Read his work "Of Faith and Works"

Now I need to find out what Taco Time is and try a crisp beef burrito!

Doug's problem is that he's forgetting that even the unconverted can (at least for awhile) teach and live right. There have been all sorts of teachers that we thought were converted that have fallen away and shown they were not. I can look back at Joshua Harris's books or Ravi Zacharias or others and see truth they proclaimed really well. Discernment is not just knowing right from wrong, it's knowing the difference between right and almost right.

The Green Ranger and White Range come out in the same episode, again.

Listening to Wilson and White is like getting an education in church history, theology AND doctrine. The mental and spiritual exercise feels good.

I used to be a Ravi Zacharias fan. He referenced Chesterson and Lewis quite often. I gave up of Ravi because we had some big issues after I realize somethings about the bible and saw he was deceived. Smarts and logic can make for same bad doctrine the kind that keep ppl believing in things that may keep them from true salvation. I know God is the judge of who is saved and who is not. But he tells us how to be saved, in rather specific terms, what you need to believe so you do not believe in vain.

Its dangerous seeing light in someone as Charismatic also say this too! They sit under someone who utter these revelation to them tell them about vision tell them they went to heaven and god spoke secrets to them. And they get this high moment being there and come out believing its true? I know an evangelical pastor who gave a strong testimony of going to a catholic church and having this high movement he never had in a evangelical church. He is now a strong supporter of Catholics theology cause of this high movement he had. And then Muslim say they have a strong experience in their religion as well as other religions does that make their spiritual insight gospel then?

The most valuable thing I got from this video was that there is a taco time in Moscow Idaho!!

I am a convert to Catholicism, and after my conversion I had to give my friends and family the historical protestant arguments so I could have a discussion about what I was doing. I appreciate people who understand that there is a real difference. Almost everyone from my protestant background and even more in my now catholic parish just doesn't see any real difference. It's agrevating at times.

Just seeing this now. I have dear friends who are under Romanism. I have come to the belief that the only way a Roman Catholic has true saving faith is if they either don’t understand Rome’s doctrine or they do but hold to the truth of scripture. If their hope and trust is in Christ alone, then they are in, but if they believe and trust in what Rome teaches, they are lost.

So basically if you would like to know Doug Wilson’s view on this read the last chapter of C.S Lewis’s The Last Battle.

I with Rich on the sweaters.

As an adherent of the preponderance of calvinism, methinks much of john Calvin's overall praxis is probably responded to with similar gymnastics by a calvinistic believer as wilson attributes to chesterton's gymnastics re Roman Catholicism.

It sure is awesome witnessing this Knight-level sparring. Two Mighty men of the Faith sharpening each-others' Broadswords.

I believe the peasant woman who lights candles but has a simple trust in Jesus is saved.

I converted to Rome from the Reformed faith last month (and am forever grateful for having been raised in it. The peace & joy Chesterton speaks of is truly here, I promise. I would recommend reading John Henry Newman in addition to Chesterton. Also Ratzinger, Balthasar, & de Lubac

Did not Scott Hahn had this tone with Dough when he was transitioning from Evangelicalism to Roman Catholicism?

As a former devout Roman Catholic who was saved by faith in the biblical gospel, by the witness of godly Christian men and reading the word of God I thoroughly enjoyed this talk by these two faithful brothers! I do have to say, I could never understand how someone truly born again, in dwelt by the Holy Spirit and soaking in the word of God, could possibly stay in the Church of Rome, just don’t get it..

What comes across here is the difference between how White and Wilson see the Gospel at work in people's lives. For Wilson, he believes that the reality of the gospel (Christ's atoning work on the cross) is what saves everyone-- including saved Catholics-- whereas White puts more emphasis one what a person "says" about the gospel being what actually saves them. Because, for White, a correct understanding of the gospel is a necessary evidence of the actual saving power of the gospel in a person's life. So, if you can't articulate how you were saved (to White's satisfaction based on his exegesis of Scripture, of course), the presumption is that you're not really saved-- even if your life exhibits some fruits of salvation. I was Reformed for over 40 years, but always took Wilson's approach. The fruits of the Spirit are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. White evidently wants to add "and proper articulation of a biblical soteriology." This is where you get into another distinction I noticed in the Reformed community: Faith used as a noun vs. verb. Faith as a noun tends to emphasize what God has done-- objectively (Wilson's view). Faith as a verb tends to emphasize how we express what God has done (White's view). In other words, "Faith in our Saving Faith" is a lot different than Saving Faith. This was a major controversy in the New England Puritan churches, by the way. The whole "old light" vs. "new light"/halfway covenant/"experimental" (experiential) conversion vs. the more objective standards of who's in and who's out. I think Wilson is taking his Reformed view of God's Sovereignty to its logical conclusion: if Christ imputes His perfect righteousness to us, then our proper articulation or even understanding of what has happened to us is incidental to our salvation-- not the cause of our salvation, or ultimate proof. It is enough that the person is baptized, professes the Nicene Creed, and exhibits the fruits of salvation (which faithful Catholics do). It is God Who saves. White will not accept this definition of a Christian. Thankfully, his party has ALWAYS been the minority in Christendom... even among the Reformed. In fact, if one itemizes White's entire theology, his party occupies a bubble in a ghetto of Christendom.

Never forget Saint Bartholomew's day!

Next, was Mother Teresa truly saved? I hear Doug Wilson's explanation. But he would have a very hard time rejecting sacrificial Christ-like loving people of RC and even non Christian faiths as unbelievers. If you include Chesterson, you cannot stop at Chesterson. Yeah, he appealed to your intellect because you are an intellectually advanced person. Mtr Teresa appealed to millions over her Christ-like giving. If you are going to put the cart before the horse, disregard what people say they themselves believe, then you cannot limit the "cart" or "spiritual light" to only the area of life you are most interested in, ie books and intellect, when studying others. You should also account for the "spiritual light" you see in the lives lived, and the graciousness displayed in others' lives.

Humorously, I'm only familiar with Esolen by his translation of the Divine Comedy.

All I've ever read of Chesterton is some of his Father Brown mystery stories (which I enjoyed), so I can't offer an opinion about Chesterton's present next-world abode.

Pray for Rome.

Enjoyable but was hoping that you would touch on Wilson’s opinion on Tolkien’s salvation? Purely a personal preference on my part as I find Chesterton very heavy( sleep inducing!) reading but dearly love Tolkien’s work, especially the Silmarillion and anything else about the First Age, Gondolin, etc.

18:00 Chesterton heard the truth of the gospel from a church that spawn from Henry the 8th? I love these videos gents. They affirm and point one to conclude that there is only one true church. Blessings