she can just solo

Angry chi chi>fused zenos

@@alejandrocuevas3858 nah bro beerus > chi chi fp >> bulma fp

@@alejandrocuevas3858Angry chichi>>>> whole db verse

She's the writers excuse of laziness incarnate.

“Goku! Why is your hair blonde!?” “Who gave you permission to dye your hair, Gohan!?” “…..you’re a… Super… Saiyan……” “Is that bad?” “WAAAAAAAAH!! MY LITTLE GOTEN IS A LITTLE MONSTER!!!”

​@@kirbyof590starsfun fact: "little monster" part was an error in translation, she was actually saying "not another delinquent in the family!!"

@@dynamitoriel9056 Probably also a lip flap thing, delinquent is three syllables while monsters only two

​@@dynamitoriel9056 kind of sad that they messed it up. Cuz the delinquent actually made sense. Since blonde hair actually means delinquent in Japan.

@@tommymoodie2157 pretty much, assuming DBZ cast live in Japan it no wonder why Chi-Chi Don't like super Saiyan, specifically it Golden Hair

Yea the one Goku does in tournament ring with Majin Vegeta is so clean.

@@justsherman4gohan on great saiyaman arc didn’t need rage to become SSJ I Really think the writers just put the saiyans to get a bit angry to turn SSJ just to look cool

they still do these what are yall talking about I am so confused

​@MegasXRL to be fair he was watching his girl catch that 2 piece combo. The first time we see him transform after the time skip he didn't need to get mad.I think it just triggered due to the rage he was feeling at the time, that's why goku was having to tell him to calm down

@@tosutaa on my own headcanon gohan could turn ssj2 against kibito because he was in rage due to videl x spopovich fight But some time passed and he was calm again so he couldn’t turn ssj2 against dabura Or akira toriyama (rip) forgot to draw the lighting effects on gohan’s ssj2

Ya know, I wish Yamcha as a desert bandit had been a more prominent thing.. 😂

​@@trufreedomremembering that yamcha at one point was the strongest character in the show is hilarious to think about. Since he basically has been irrelevant since the Saiyan saga

​@@JokerX126Goku only lost because he was hungry. Goku whoops him after eating. He's been irrelevant since his second episode.

@@Linkman55555 true. 😂. Yamcha was even the first human to train with king Kai and still was irrelevant. They stopped having him fight after the android saga because everyone got annoyed with him being included. Especially since he was a meme after dying to a saibaman.

Ah Toriyama. RIP you forgetful bastard

Not gona lie during that whole arc goku and gohan looked drippy af

Yeah forreal. I think we all know the drip was why goten was born

I have the pop figure of it

Agreed. I feel like if they ever change his design, he should rock that outfit with maybe some sweats. This way he's always ready for a battle, but his design can still change.

@@HallowedGreaves I loved the gi with no shirt underneath and barefoot

Never before have I been so offended by something I 100% agree with

Toriyama: "I forgor 💀"

@@Star_Taro why does this physically hurt bro... stooopp

@@Star_TaroThat only started happening after the manga finished

I hate how true this is

True

Because aside from. The hair to be straighter on Goku, and Teen Gohan. The only way for anyone to tell the difference between one and two is the electric aura that comes out from that form. (But animators occasionally forgets to add that detail so some people obviously will get confused still.)

@@DangerDan64to be fair in gokus case his hair looks different

Lol 917th like

@@rurounijay7100 That's what I just said on the second sentence.

just losing to araki (creator of JoJo)

​@@XeskedeleToriyama forgets more

Why the hell doesn't the man hire someone to remind him? Do the animators and studio workers not care either 😂😂

​@@XeskedeleMost of Araki's case are from JoJo fan who can't read.

Yeah, the man straight-up forgot Super Saiyan 2 _existed._ Expecting him to remember a relatively minor side note about how Goku and Gohan had trained until they could hold basic Super Saiyan completely naturally is... well, you're inevitably gonna be disappointed.

He should be. Super is inconsistent af.

​@@johnweebchan True

Na na don’t talk crazy now

@@F150fx2sporTnah he is, anyone who didn’t watch dragonball wouldn’t know if it was Goku, vegeta or anyone else who can go super saiyan, but at the same time anyone who didn’t watch it still knows those gigantic curvy spikes

@@F150fx2sporTBefore I became a DB fan I thought everyone looked the same with the SSJ hair, but I always knew who Goku’s hair belonged to

@@Quix1527 well everyone pretty much has diff hair, no one has the same style at all. Except Goten when he was young. You can’t say you wouldn’t recognize Vegeta’s, Trunk’s, Gohan’s or even Yamcha’s hair lol

​@@F150fx2sporTthere are a lot of gokus though

Tiredness that become legendary

if i remember correctly toriyama at one point literally said that super saiyan was originally supposed to just have black hair with a golden aura but he made the hair yellow because he was so tired of coloring in gokus hair. also prolly around the same reason we never got perfect cell max. no one wanted to color in all those black spots on him every single panel

​@@mrziggyzaggy113why is black harder to color in?

​@@davidsimmons4731 Maybe because you need to be more careful?

The original manga was in black and white, so he didnt have to color in goku at all if he gave him a special hair color.@@davidsimmons4731

Wdym?

​@@MaximusTheChosenOne in the manga, ssb is shown as this ultra taxing form that goku and vegeta use for only a few minutes They spend the majority of the time as ssg rather than ssb, only using ssb when its absolutely necessary

@@lokithe.godofmischiefthey fixed that issue with perfected ssb they masterd ssb

​@@primalgod7952it still has massive stamina issues

@@ChallengeMeReload no it doesn’t not anymore did you not hear anything I said

It would be interesting to live in a world where after achieving SSJ, it just can't be turned off.

​@@Ninjaman50LOL, while i like ssj goku, i prefer base vegeta and gohan

​@@Ninjaman50like pokemon evolutions

@@Ninjaman50so DBZ Abridged’s joke but a longer one

​@@IIIISai You mean the two whose appearances literally change the least with the transformation? That's an...interesting take, to say the least

Hahahahahaahhahahahaahahaha 😂😂😂😂😂😂 lmfaoooo what an absolutely perfect answer

Toriyama and his serious amnesia problems..

This post needs a pin

Wrong. Bro…Super Saiyan is a multiplier. So to get stronger you would have to improve your base form so that when you transform its that much greater. Their base forms now are far above when they first achieved super saiyan. If they continued to train in mastered super saiyan they wouldn’t have improved that much because of the lengths they would have to go through to find training hard enough to improve. For instance piccolo. Him wearing the weighted clothes is basically like saiyans in their base form and is like super saiyan when he takes the weights off. Why would he then never wear the weights again? He would hurt his gains. When people go to the gym they add more weight and reps as they get stronger they don’t make it easier lol. That way when playing with the lighter weight it’s way easier.

@@dominiquewilson😂😂😂😂

It pissed me and a bunch of ppl that ssj didn't turned into base. So no difference.

@@Raikos100 that would be stupid. Super saiyan is a multiplier. How would they get stronger if they are always in super saiyan. You train your base form so that when you transform you become that much stronger.

@@dominiquewilson I honestly don't think it would matter considering how much ssj is weaker compared to god ki variations. To train god ki ssj is even irrelevant. Also power system is super inconsistent anyways so why bother about details when they are already scuffed.

Super Saiyan Grades: “Are we not relevant anymore?!” Super Saiyan Power: “Most likely not..” Oozaru: “C’mon boys, he don’t love us no more.”

False super saiyan:​ hey don't forget me @@UniversalGoji

@@thecoreofevil9004 Super Saiyan Kaioken: “..wait, people remember who you guys are? Damn it..”

Yeah it really says something that they even in-universe started saying Blue instead of "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan"... also would have been so cool to say that Vegeta got "Super Saiyan God Evolution" or whatever..

At the time, blue didn't exist. So it makes sense it's super Saiyan god. Compared to a a Saiyan, it would have been like a super Saiyan. But God...

The fact they didnt come up with something so simple and instead made it difficult

​@@DSan-kl2ycSuper saiyan god is fine, so long as you NEVER decide to include "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan". That is fucking stupid and only a fan boy would support that decision for an English dub. Having Saiyans, Super Saiyans, Saiyan Gods, and Super Saiyan Gods make infinitely more sense. There is no justification that makes it okay. Otherwise, why did the terminology change? If what existed made so much sense, why would you need to make any change at all? They never said "Super Super Saiyan Super" for Super Saiyan 3 or Super Saiyan 4. Gohan doesn't have a form called "Super Saiyan hybrid" or anything either. Everything but the name is honestly cool. But UI is stupid as I feel it was already covered in Dragon Ball. I don't see how it is really much different. Especially given that Master Roshi "was using a variation of UI" according to some of the fan base.

​@@shalkonon013I mean, even toriyama realized the name was stupid sounding and lampshaded it at the start of the U6 saga. It does make technical sense tho, because it's merging the super saiyan god (or more especifically, god ki) with the regular super saiyan form.

I disagree with the in world reason. This would make sens if super sayen was just a strength multiplier and you only reason with numbers, but that's boring. My take is that once you have gone super saiyan, training in base form is not efficient. That's like training to run a 100 hundred meters sprint only by going half your full speed every time and saying that when you run at full speed your training will yield twice the result. Well no. If you don't give it your all every now and then, your speed is going to drop. Same for super saiyan. If you train in your base form, you don't get better in your super saiyan form. That's why when we see Vegeta training after the time skip he trains in super saiyan mod in his gravity room and why Gohan trains in super saiyan too. If one wanted an in world reason for why Whis makes them train in base form, you could argue that his training focus more on the form, the way of fighting rather that just the raw power. And when you try new techniques, you better take it slow at first.

@@raphitekthebestoneExcept... we know that Super Saiyan is just a 50 times multiplier. That's it. It doesn't matter if you think it' boring. It was stated as a fact. So yes, gaining 1 strength in base form is better than gaining 1 strength in SSJ, because 1 strength in base is automatically 50 strength in ssj.

⁠​⁠@@raphitekthebestoneExcept, that’s just not how progress is made, even in the real world. In fact, if you train with 100% effort every time you workout, you’re only increasing the likelihood of an injury. Goku pretty much said as much to Vegeta before Vegeta’s second round in the RoSaT during the Cell Games Saga. Goku proved, at least in that instance, that just brutalizing your body isn’t enough sometimes. Goku and Gohans training was just better; they trained hard, but more importantly they trained smart, unlike Vegeta who didn’t utilize Trunks as a training asset the first go round, and simply went in by himself the second go, probably pushing himself to the brink every time, and spending more time recovering than actual training.

@@featherofthephoenix If you want, that's not in contradiction with what I said, my point stands even without going into the details of a good training regime.

😂 can't argue any of this

not really because all goku does is start whatever his training in with 50x more intensity such as the weights on the other world in buu saga or ig time chamber, if ssj is his base then he isn't limiting

Yes really the form is a multiploer so whatever gains you would get while using the form when you detransform would be divided by 50 and ssj having an energy usage requirement to power up and maintain the form means you would have energy for training overall if you had just stayed in base form. This has already been covered in filler episodes

​@@xMrjamjamOh my god something that isnt canon to the story already covered it?! Who'd have ever guessed? Next you'll be picking examples out of Bleach or One Piece to explain why something in Dragon Ball works the way it does. Filler is literally licensed fan fiction. Don't use it to prop up your arguments one way or the other.

​@@aaronwishard7093filler doesn't mean non canon. They generally coincide, especially since filler can often be impossible to fit within the timeline, but the canon between the source material and adaptations can be different

@@jaskaranbajwa8443 Did you see the ending where I said "it's licensed fan fiction"? Since that's all filler is. And for Dragon Ball, if we're talking purely about episodes, the filler actually could easily fit right where they put it. But that doesn't mean it's what Toriyama had in mind. It means that the Toei writers had an interpretation that lines up with yours. Now I'm not sure if you're aware, but for Dragon Ball. There's one canon. What's inside the manga. It's not until we get to Dragon Ball Super that we have 3 different canons. Anime, Manga, and Movies. Movies taking precedent over the Manga which takes precedent over the Anime. Since Toriyama gave the notes to Toei's staff and Toyotarou. But with every single movie we can see major plot deviations, at least they stay consistent with themselves.

So was goku and future trunks when they first met, both instantly turned super saiyan without any effort

Who's Brian?

Okay so I'm not the only one who thought that was off.

😮

@@jdizzy192 No sir, not the only one. It honestly felt like a cheap way to get a ‘Serious-Angry’ Goku moment. That, or you could head canon that; Goku just has more experience/mastery with the form, so it’s less about those maintenance techniques I mentioned before. Ehh

Tranquility and rage can co-exist due to both being controllable states of mind and for Goku, it’s a natural emotion for a Saiyan warrior to use to his advantage (this is known as “Tranquil Fury”). Remember when Enraged Blue Goku faced Black and Zamasu? When he powered up, he calmly focused in on Black and after he knocked him into a building, he then focused on Zamasu to inflict as much pain as possible so that feeling would take him time to fully process it. When Black rushed in to stop the assault, Goku attacked him with percussive strikes on Black’s body which ended up knocking him to the ground and before approaching Black again, Goku teleports to Zamasu’s location and back fists him into a building while he’s completely focused on Black who’s the bigger threat. These aren’t the actions of an unfocused enraged man-child; they are the actions of an enraged, focused, determined and percussive warrior who's fought like this for decades. Rage is only uncontrollable to those who’ve never tried or were unable to use this primal natural drive to their advantage in life and to have control, you have a certain level of tranquility, or your own emotions will ultimately betray you if you use them blindly.

Well you know rage induces power so I always thought of it as they got the form down to the point they don’t have to think of maintaining it and can just do it and when they get mad it’s reach a temporary power boost of sorts

'Lifting Weights Underwater' sounds like a cool band name

☝🤓 you mean "lifting weights in outer space/Zero-G" since training in SSJ would make the physical feats easier. Lifting weights underwater would be incredibly difficult as the pressure of the water would be compounded onto the weights and muscles.

​@@NEWFIExGAMINGit's easier to lift weights in water. objects are lighter in water.

@@NEWFIExGAMINGbro have you never gone swimming ??

​@@NEWFIExGAMING💀

I don’t think it’s trying harder, they are just usually amped, scared, or angry when the need arises to transform.

Ye, I find it cooler with the yell then just *pop* blonde hair

That’s what super saiyan 2 or 3 are for. They mastered 1 it should be like base. 2 and 3 should be more difficult

Makes no sense to still struggle activating it after mastering it to the degree to use it as a base form. Unless he unlearned it, which is stupid.

@dennisguntner8372 I wouldn't say he has to struggle but I think it's just funner, not only that but more hype for the audience to see Goku and or Vegeta roar into ssj

And also get hurt by every rock

​@@the_golden_s5682they learned to control the strength and hold glass cups etc lol

Mastery implies perfect ki control and therefore things like this shouldn't happen

​@@the_golden_s5682 Specifically every rock thrown by Krillin.

​@@Solesteamnah zoro found himself in the db universe and taught krillin haki, so that the rock would hurt goku

Yeah everything after sucked. Well SS4 was pretty cool tho

@@jrhSTYLE u have to be braindead to not like buusaga and then say gt was good

dbs was good @@jrhSTYLE

Buu saga had some awesome moments too

I mean fights also used to last a lot longer. Goku bkack was the last time it felt like they were fightimg for a long time while the ToP was constrained to less than an hour. That is probably why thevsuoer saiyan is base didn't carry forward. If the battle takes 10 minutes because of how fast they are, you don't really need the stamina control for 20 minutes.

To be fair, that's exactly why they swap between God and Blue in the Manga and Broly Movie. Blue eventually gets mastered in the manga but in the anime it kinda just gets set aside and we're supposed to pretend Blue is always gonna be unstable so new Technique Forms (UI and UE) are better and more ideal. EDIT: Slight correction, MSSJB just prevents God ki from leaking out from the user, but it's taxing for a mortal to hold all the energy within so it's not actually ideal, hence why SSJG is still used.

@@alpacalover0 but that counters the idea from universe 6 manga where going into blue at all is severely draining. Switching back and forth would effectively make it useless. The anime treats it as a draining but more stable form that's why kioken can be applied to it. Both treat ui and mui as clearly superior in most every way.

@@keve5534 In the anime T.O.P and manga Zamasu arcs, Goku and Vegeta respectively use rapid transformation to shift between the two forms, moving and healing up with Red and attacking and defending with Blue. Unsure how that factors in with the transformation being costly, but they might have overcome the initial drain of switching since both of them use it eventually.

@@alpacalover0 That drain trait was introduced in the manga version of universe 6 but never a factor in the anime. In the manga of Zamasu they introduced perfected blue which is what the anime already had.

nah

I like both two. It will always be helpful because it is a 50x boost in power, speed and durability. Pluss, Goku's fighting style in Super at least, is to start out small, as he's learning his opponents martial arts style, and then go bigger.

Haha can you imagine, a fuzed Oozaru?? They might die really quick but it would be the most epic monster to fight.

Then he didn’t master the form because it wasn’t effortless

​@@seededsoulEat your heart out King Kong.

@@MrMasterDebate Effortless does not mean its a zero cost thing, its still a power amplifier and still costs energy, but its negligible when it's in normal usage, and, the fused form wouldn't have that mastery because its a gestalt, and half of its foundation wouldn't have it, so now you have half a body stuck in high gear, in a situation thats already extremely draining

​@@syrelianmastered SS is basically like a fuel efficient Car. He still drains fuel but it's just more efficient

Super Manga noncanon

@@jdrmanmusiqkingnot sure where you pulled that from, but alright..

@@seshinwsmitty2904 Because thats how reality works... In the case of DBS The manga is the adaptation of the show and usually both manga and show are canon. However, since the DBS manga is so drastically different than the show, it cant be canon as its the adaptation of the show and movies

​@@jdrmanmusiqking"bEcAuSe tHats hOw ReAlIty woRks" except Super *is* canon lol, the manga is still canon regardless how much you cry about it 😂 thats how reality works kiddo.

@@JackTheripper911 Toei, One of the most money hungry multi-media companies in the world, hasn't sold a single piece of merchandise exclusively hailing from the Manga. That should tell you everything you need to know about the canonicity of the DBS Manga Dont know why youre so emotional but if a company isnt doing an easy thing to make extra money then THERE IS A REASON. Thats how reality works bro

Ssj3 drained more stamina than was worth the minor boost in power that it provided over ssj2. Even Vegeta understood that the form wasn't good since it didn't do anything that ssj2 couldn't. It also wasn't a form you could train the flaw out of. At most, you might give yourself an extra minute in the form. It's also why it is never used after BoG.

Super logic is stupid. Whis didnt exist when they mastered SSJ so this comment makes no sense

​@jdrmanmusiqking but it's more recent information rather than YEARS ago when toriyama was going to end it with cell or gohan being the lead. Stuff changes and if that is the way they want to tell THEIR story then you just have to accept it

@@evelynreyes6705 This comment lacks any sense of logic. Super DID NOT EXIST when " SSJ Becoming base form" was a thing Therefore, using anything in Super to explain any events in Z is an exercise in Lunacy

Exactly

I rather see it for super forms tbh ss3 is really ugly and probably hard to animate in fights, if they added the eyebrows and make the hair less long but that’ll never happen

​@@Rezixit29long hair is awesome dude and what you wanr is Ulta ego

Ss3 looks fucking sick it only gets topped by ssj4

SSJ3 isn't even a real form, it's just overclocking SSJ. That's why it shortens limited time clocks that aren't even tied to Ki consumption like Fusion or Goku's 24hrs on Earth while dead It cannot become a base form, it being a massive energy sink is the whole point

@@niedudetrue, the way Goku explained it it should barely even work if you aren't dead

More than that, Toriyama also slid backwards on Kaioken. Goku perfectly integrated Kaioken's power multiplier into his ever motion by the Namek saga, and from Android saga onward, ALL the z fighters used it that way. So in super, using kaioken while using blue form just shows Toriyama forgot why the kaioken form never "came back". When I saw that in super I was just like "...wait, isn't he already using kaioken in every instance he attacks?"

@@CritStanley No, he quit using Kaioken because it puts a massive strain on the users body, and Super Saiyan, an extremely powerful transformation made the Kaioken technique obsolete, since Goku believed it was incompatible with SSJ, and opted for the route that granted far more power, with a much less severe strain to his body. He uses Kaioken against Freiza, that alone debunks this strange idea that he's somehow using Kaioken with every motion by the Namek saga" He stopped using it once he got Super Saiyan.

​@@CritStanleyToriyama didn't added Kaioken to the Blue form, it was Toei. In the manga he uses a completely different form.

How did they go back in progression if they added SSJ2 and 3 tho?

​@@randalthor2859 I admit that I've always found it odd that Goku thought using Kaioken the old way would do better than him continuing his method. But against that 1 counter point, I have 3 that support my claim. 1. When Goku first arrives on Namek and the Ginyu force are confused at Goku's new power despite low numbers. Vegeta bitterly muses to himself the truth. He knows the scouters aren't broken. Goku was simply multiplying his powers like he did on Earth but only in the instant he attacks. Too fast for the scouters to detect the spike, and fast enough to minimize strain on his body for being multiplied beyond their natural limits. 2. When Goku faces Ginyu, Ginyu is impressed but tells him his estimate for Goku's maximum. Goku then demonstrates by holding Kaioken like he did on Earth, just so that the scouter can see how far his strength can go. And after the demonstration says "And that's nothing compared to when I use it in bursts" Confirming Vegeta's observation and confirming my claim. 3. Flashforward to the Android saga. When Gero absorbs some of Piccolo's energy but is stopped. Piccolo later starts beating him down. Gero is confused, Piccolo's energy levels were no where near the kind of power his attacks were showing now. And Piccolo explains. "we know how to multiply what you call energy many times over in the instant we attack. What you took from me was nothing." Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha, and Chautzu all went to King Kai's planet and recieved his training. So they all know how to use Kaioken. And during the android saga, it'd only make sense that Goku would teach them how to do it his way as well. There are other speculative points, but these 3 are pretty definitive. And I got them from the Manga.

Small correction the angels are in a constant state of ultra instinct. Also isn't it only a form for him because he's a mortal so using ultra instinct is different than compared to say Whis? Like once he masters is wont he just be like the angle's in base but able to use UI?

@@austinsmith5529 It becomes a technique for him later and he's able to incorporate it into his forms, and the more powerful the form, the more effective UI is. For example when he is using Blue, his UI is better than when he's using Super Saiyan.

@@ethanjeffsamvs3521 Okay wasn't sure what you meant by that because it kinda seemed like you meant using it as a form still but with others not just base. That's awesome though because I've been waiting for the anime to come back can't wait to see Vegeta in Ultra Ego or Black Frieza just one shotting both him and Goku at their best like damn

@@austinsmith5529 if Dragon Ball Magic is confirmed that'll be out first

​@@ethanjeffsamvs3521 Magic is called Daima now, but yes it's confirmed. Looks like Toriyama's take on GT.

exactly, and they even said that they can't permanently keep the form then either. gohan mentions that they go back to base to sleep because they can't hold in without that concentration

​@@blanketzombie2027wait, isn't goku sleeping during the rock scene?

​@if7723 naw his eyes are closed and he's relaxing but not asleep

​@Detroit_Smash Grrrr 💢

Here comes the Hulk. 😅

​@druidofscosglen2868that was just for the off-brand saiyans. Carrot and Veggie still have to look like someone shat in their food

faxxxxx

Think about it. Super Saiyan God is God Base Super Saiyan Blue is God Super Saiyan Super Saiyan Blue Evolution is God Super Vegeta.

​@@jacobblakely2224which meams ssj3 blue is real

@@jacobblakely2224true

They already did that with the Saiyan Beyond God state back in Res F. Does the fandom forget as much as Toriyama?

Was just about to comment this. The legend literally states that he “is a super saiyan” not “he could become a super saiyan”

​@@Basil-YT-The point of Frieza's saga was that they really didnt know what a SSJ was until Goku becme one tho. Vegeta though Goku or even himself became SSJ just because both gained zenakais.

@@DarthFhenix55 yeah I gotchu. Still just an idea I think would make more sense if it was permanent once obtained.

@@Basil-YT- Vegeta: and now everything is a super saiyan, like it a bargain bin sales

cause its a dumb thing to use as a base from, yeah its getting stronger but when you return back to normal form you'll notice they haven't been training and gained barely anything due to not training their main normal forms which is why super is all about improving the normal form fully so it transfers into all forms somewhat

God the red one is basically the same as this but for some reason goku doesn't use it as base

Ik during black arc whis said they couldn’t grow anymore more potential wise and ssb drains stamina and makes them get weaker at least that was the case for a while in the manga of im correct

@@jamimuhammad3699 i never understood why ssb drained, God red has 0 drain and goku mastered ssj in cell saga yet blue, which is god (no drain) and grade 4 (no drain), somehow has drain???, also how does blonde x red equal blue, i never understood the writing behind blue and how it drained or looked blue

We see characters training in Super Saiyan all the time. Oh wait, shit that's right, I'm asking a Dragon Ball fan to remember what happens in Dragon Ball.

​@demi-femme4821 it's not really the fans fault that the series doesn't commit to anything

@@demi-femme4821 I just figured base form training helps the amount SSJ multiples strength, but training as SSJ help stamina and control in SSJ form but does increase strength too, just not as fast unless using higher level gear.

​@@OmegaIIthe reason base is more effective to train in is because any training in super saiyan will become easier than in base because they are stronger, they are gonna get more out of training in base in terms of raising their power. But like you said, training in the form really is only for mastering the form, not really for becoming stronger overall.

​@@demi-femme4821they trained super Saiyan to get more control not to get stronger with super Saiyan 😂😂 if they want to get stronger with super Saiyan they have to increase their power level in base use ur brain

Did you miss the entire point of them doing that? 🤦🏾‍♂

​@@Saxandfifthsyea he did ,😂

Its impressive how people have it literally spelled out for them why something exists, and they are still too stupid to understand it 😂

Me when I never read nor watched the series:

@@chuviis3508 I've read the manga AND watched the series + TFS version.

I mean, I would argue the form kinda started becoming devalued when Goten and Trunks achieved it, and possibly even more so when everybody was raging about Kale and Caulifla, but I get what you're saying. It's always a pleasure to see SSJ used even if it's not the top form anymore.

Wasn’t memory he actively made the decision

​@@WizofmincraftAnd it makes no sense.

@@UnwantedGhost1🤓

?@@UnwantedGhost1

Goku literally says they trained until it became their nature. If they have to continously maintain it, it's not mastered. That was the ENTIRE POINT of it.

@@EskChan19 Seems that's the only thing you paid attention to, and not what happened later in the series. When someone stops training a specific skill, they start to decline. And because both Goku and Gohan stopped maintaining that form as if it were their normal state, they reverted back to it being regular Super Saiyan. It was explained that for them to be in their Mastered Super Saiyan state, they have to recover the energy they used to initiate the transformation. They also have to stay transformed 24/7. And as we saw in the Boo arc, both Goku and Gohan were knocked out of Super Saiyan, meaning it's no longer like their normal form. In fact, when Goku suggests transforming into a Super Saiyan before using the Potara with Gohan, Old Kai and doing that puts too much stress on their body and will shorten their life. Now, if Goku and Gohan's Super Saiyan was no different than their normal state, this statement wouldn't have been made by Old Kai. Or Goku would have said that he and Gohan are Mastered Super Saiyans. But that isn’t the case anymore.

​@@DigitalWraith this's bs. Gohan is MSSJ even after 7 years with less training. Just look at him. It's not ssj, it's mssj. They've mastered SSJ, so there is no reason to be in this form the whole time. About old Kai. Base is still better than MSSJ, that's why Goku didn't argue with Kai.

@@johnweebchan There is no visual difference between Mastered Super Saiyan and regular Super Saiyan. So saying "just look at him" doesn't confirm anything. If you're talking about the ease he has in transforming into a Super Saiyan, that's not what a Mastered Super Saiyan is. It seems you don't know what a Mastered Super Saiyan is. For them to be Mastered Super Saiyan, they need to be in their transformed state 24-7 so they can recover the energy they used to initiate the transformation and get used to the form to the point where they don't constantly burn their ki. Just because they mastered something at some point doesn't mean they can just disregard the training they did to achieve it. During the Revival if F movie, Gohan couldn't go Super Saiyan 2 or use his Ultimate form due to his lack of training. His Ultimate form is even easier to achieve because it doesn't burn ki. Yet he couldn’t use it due to his lack of training. The same concept applies here. The whole point of Mastered Super Saiyan is *they made Super Saiyan into their normal state so they can utilizeeven more power without the drawbacks of their ki draining or losing control of their emotions.* I don't think you understand what you're talking about. Go read the manga or watch the anime when Goku and Gohan exited the Room of Spirit and Time. Vegeta explained it for us perfectly. The reason Goku didn't argue is because neither him nor Gohan are Mastered Super Saiyans anymore.

@@DigitalWraith What are you talking about? YOU don't know what a Mastered Super Saiyan is! There are a lot of differences between Mastered Super Saiyan and regular Super Saiyan! The face is less tense, more relaxed. The eyes are rounded. The aura decreases, becomes more calm and balanced, and the hair becomes more yellow-white. However, when power up, the aura and shade of hair become the same as in Super Saiyan Grade 1, reminding that Mastered Super Saiyan is still not the basic form, but Super Saiyan. Also Mastered Super Saiyan no longer affects saiyan's character in any way. So, there are a lot of differences between these 2 forms. Just compare the first appearance of SS and MSS and you'll see. "For them to be Mastered Super Saiyan, they need to be in their transformed state 24-7" No, they are not. They only needed it when they were trying to master this form. When they mastered this form, they didn't have to be in it 24/7. That's why they stopped using it all the time. But they have ALREADY mastered this form. It is ALREADY in their arsenal. Even if they don't train at ALL, they won't be able to take this form and throw it away, because this form is already NATULAL for them, for their bodies. Ultimate is NOT a form, it's a STATE. And it's permanent. When the ritual was over, Gohan didn't transform, he just released the power. So, Gohan couldn't lose this state. Super and GT messed up this. "The reason Goku didn't argue is because neither him nor Gohan are Mastered Super Saiyans anymore." No, they are. Goku didn't argue, because Kaioshin was right. Even MSS puts stress on the body. Despite all the great advantages, Mastered Super Saiyan still does not acquire all the properties of the base form. This is demonstrated by the fact that Goku can't use Kaioken in a Mastered Super Saiyan form, but he can in base. The only time he was able to do this was in a fight with Paikuhan, and ONLY under special conditions BESIDES Mastered Super Saiyan: 1) Kaioken multiplier is not higher than 2 2) Only for one single hit, and immediately cancel Kaioken 3) A spiritual body in which one cannot get tired, and not a living mortal body. So, Base >>>>>> MSS.

That's stupid.

Elder Kai was said that if Goku and Vegeta fused as Super Saiyans that it would shorten their life span, so maybe that's what you're thinking of

​@@robotmafia000Oh right. Completely forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me

@@robotmafia000no

@@arkadiusz6275nope

Just casually emitting electricity.

Nah because Ultimate gohan is his base form and the elder kai said it makes ssj pointless and ssg was absorb with goku’s base form so it’s basically a multiplier

@@SOUPA-KAMI So why Gohan and Goku didn't used that in the 7 years?

@@CypherNeoMetal like after cell? Because there was peace on earth so Gohan didn’t train which lowered his skill and goku was learning other stuff probably like ssj2 and ssj3

@@SOUPA-KAMI yeah, exactly, thats why they unaccustomed to using ssj

@@CypherNeoMetal well because they don’t need to because they were trying to get to a level pass ssj and goku couldn’t so they utilized ssj to it’s max but goku knew gohan can break the barrier but gohan doesn’t need ssj anymore

i think this is actually what happens, toriyama doesn't make notes on the stuff he writes and he also forgets stuff, like outright forgetting ssj2 at some point, he said it himself that he forgets stuff to cope with his brain capacity, which kinda means he is going to go through a good ammount of plot holes through the shows/manga's run

Started in Z. The moment Vegeta had to question whether Gohan could still do so or when Goku showed up without being SSJ the concept was long gone