Catch Up to China? Here's the Only Way - AAH 697

  Рет қаралды 14,441

Autoline Network

Autoline Network

27 күн бұрын

TOPIC:
The only way to compete with Chinese automakers is to cut costs. Beating up suppliers won't do it. De-contenting cars is not the way to do it. The only solution is to design cost out. Here's how...
PANEL:
- Barry Caldwell, Transportation & Mobility Industry Business Value Consultant Director, Dassault Systèmes
- Brett Smith, Auto Industry Observer, Former CAR Member
- Tu Le, Sino Auto Insights
- Gary Vasilash, shinymetalboxes.net
- John McElroy, Autoline.tv
INSTAGRAM: / autolinenetwork
TWITTER: / autoline
FACEBOOK: / autolinenetwork
WEBSITE: www.autoline.tv

Пікірлер: 101
@YoursNKR
@YoursNKR 26 күн бұрын
This is why we hardcore industry lovers come here, autoline is always on the cutting edge of our industry!!! Love you John and Garry!! Your effort is much appreciated by this small industry loyalists crowd that you have! We are here for you, always!! You are the best!!!
@YoursNKR
@YoursNKR 26 күн бұрын
It was old tech but reimagined for today’s cut throat market
@davidpearn5925
@davidpearn5925 25 күн бұрын
Tu Le is da man who knows that Tesla is fading in fashion conscious China....... just to start with.
@mowensmd
@mowensmd 25 күн бұрын
@@davidpearn5925 False.
@brunosmith6925
@brunosmith6925 25 күн бұрын
As always, thought-provoking discussion. John is unarguably one of the best automotive commentators and journalists, tackling thorny issues with enthusiasm and a well-measured sense of pragmatism. Excellent channel, and anyone interested in topics automotive should be paying careful attention to these discussions.
@stephenmcgauley
@stephenmcgauley 25 күн бұрын
The time it takes legacy automotive to do software changes is still measured in quarters. I think BYD and Tesla are moving a wee bit faster.
@turbokadett
@turbokadett 25 күн бұрын
I took a drink everytime Barry Buzzword came out with a new one; collaboration, innovation, excellence etc. etc. I've now died of alcohol poisoning. Barry, you talked about cutting costs; time is money; what you have to say is interesting and offers insight but remove the marketing and managerial BS, your future audiences will appreciate it.
@hdvoice
@hdvoice 25 күн бұрын
Barry sounded like a sales guy than some auto software expert. The audience are not exactly the CEO type he usually deals with.
@fatdoi003
@fatdoi003 15 күн бұрын
icing over a turf doesn't make it palatable.... u.s makes military their national priority, china makes renewable energy infrastructure their national priority... that's beyond a few car companies can deal with themselves
@kevtheobald
@kevtheobald 26 күн бұрын
I do not believe the company culture at most legacy builders will change fast enough. I totally agree with the idea of bringing in real software experts and letting them help guide development. Where legacy builders will likely be hard to change is their willingness to pay top dollar for top software talent. They will dump tens of millions on CEOs, but where they hurt the most, they are trying to cheap out.
@jorvega123
@jorvega123 25 күн бұрын
Chinese vehicle need to come to USA asap! No tariff!!
@user-kc1tf7zm3b
@user-kc1tf7zm3b 25 күн бұрын
American cars only really matter to Americans, but, the US population only makes up 4% of the world’s population. 96% of the world has easy access to dynamic, modern, quality and affordable Chinese EVs. This explains why China is the world’s largest car manufacturer and exporter. For consumers who are not citizens of the United States, Japan and Germany - 93% of the world’s population - these people could not care less how diabolical and untenable the corporate positions are of the legacy car companies. There is no real affinity, much less loyalty, with foreign car companies. What everyday consumers want is value, affordability and modernity. And this is what the Chinese EVs certainly deliver. At the end of the day, the most competitive, compelling and relevant product will always prevail. This is how the free market works.
@dwguo9924
@dwguo9924 22 күн бұрын
I only want to say that American cars are cheaper in China😢
@user-kc1tf7zm3b
@user-kc1tf7zm3b 22 күн бұрын
@@dwguo9924 A fully imported US made new car is cheaper in China? With shipping and new car import taxes how could this be so?
@dwguo9924
@dwguo9924 22 күн бұрын
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b Not the imported models, those models that manufactured in China. Like 2023 Chevrolet Blazer, MSRP is $35,100, but in China it’s ¥194,4900(about $27,000). This is the result by competition, non Chinese car brands used to be more expensive than their original countries. It happens to Japanese and Germany brands(not the luxurys)as well. As a consumer in the states, I just want spend less on a normal car. I don’t want pay $27,000 for a Toyota Prius with outdated interior. It’s competitor BYD Qin L(PHEV)only $13,800, with much better interior and exterior. Even with the tariffs, it’s competitive. We shouldn’t pay more but get lower level products. Those big car companies are too greedy.
@dwguo9924
@dwguo9924 22 күн бұрын
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b Not the imported models, those models that manufactured in China. Like 2023 Chevrolet Blazer, MSRP is $35,100, but in China it’s ¥194,4900(about $27,000). This is the result by competition, non Chinese car brands used to be more expensive than their original countries. It happens to Japanese and Germany brands as well. As a consumer in the states, I just want spend less on a normal car. I don’t want pay $27,000 for a Toyota Prius with outdated interior. Big companies are greedy
@dwguo9924
@dwguo9924 22 күн бұрын
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b not those imported models. YT keep removing my commnents
@Clint-stanley
@Clint-stanley 25 күн бұрын
Excellent video. Especially once the second presenter came on. He addressed the culture change that legacy needs to adopt. Not seeing legacy address the change. Tesla follows the DevOps Handbook and it is what the FANG (Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, and Google) used to replace traditional industry. The Chinese benefit from not having the legacy approach to building videos. You pointed out that three years ago the Chinese were not building good autos. Now they are. Speed up the change.
@richardknapton7016
@richardknapton7016 22 күн бұрын
If I buy a washing machine I don’t care where it comes from or what brand it is .I just look for efficiency rating of A or A+ and the dimensions or load capacity. Same philosophy goes for cars.
@michaeloreilly657
@michaeloreilly657 26 күн бұрын
They've just explained why all vehicles are becoming the same.
@dewiz9596
@dewiz9596 25 күн бұрын
8:19 seems to me, that if a question requires a yes or a no, and you get a long winded”explanation”, the answer is NO
@robertide5182
@robertide5182 25 күн бұрын
“Computing power doubles every three months” This guy continues to show he has no idea what he’s talking about and is a salesperson.
@speciesofspaces
@speciesofspaces 26 күн бұрын
Thackara's book In the Bubble is still a good relevant read and the way he cites how technological systems evolve along lines of complexity illustrates just how challenging this problem will be even if many of the technical decisions are augmented by AI and other data heavy processes. I have to believe there is still going to be an advantage in simplicity. The nonlinearity of the problem is indeed the most challenging aspect as such dynamical systems are stochastic. I would hope all this tech spoken of here is not used in reductive ways but in more open creative ways. With the outcome of being more intentional.
@daves1646
@daves1646 25 күн бұрын
I hope this is why Ford opened their 'skunkworks' group in CA - to give them the chance to reinvent / restructure HOW they design/validate/set up for production. If it's just a rapid R/D focus for one product line, it's a lost opportunity.
@fatdoi003
@fatdoi003 15 күн бұрын
designers @ Chinese EV companies say their turnaround time is 2 years from first design line to production...
@williamelkington5430
@williamelkington5430 26 күн бұрын
Tu Le, I think you may mean "intellectual capital" when you say "intellectual property." You are 100% right when you talk about how cost/value for software is and should be accounted for. This is critical to insightful management of intellectual capital.
@SP30305ATL
@SP30305ATL 24 күн бұрын
Elon didn't change his mind on tariffs. Before he stated many Western automakers would be in trouble without tariffs. Now he says he's not in favor of tariffs. Those aren't contradictory--the first is a statement of fact which he likely still believes and the second is a policy judgement which he also probably believed then too. Very short term tariffs may be helpful if local producers use the time to quickly up their game, but more likely most of them will just use them to prop up profits and get further and further behind.
@mark48430
@mark48430 25 күн бұрын
Barry Caldwell extoles his software, but it only speeds up the historically flawed process of making a car. In my opinion, all the great cars were designed once, then slowly improved (reliability, simplicity) over time.
@zeitgeistx5239
@zeitgeistx5239 19 күн бұрын
They conveniently leave out the whole a lot of US cars are made in part or whole in Mexico or made in the U.S. with sweatshop labor with Uncle Sam keep finding subcontractors in the South employing 14 year old Guatemalan kids standing car body parts.
@user-to2rf1rj5v
@user-to2rf1rj5v 22 күн бұрын
9:27 Please stop calling Tesla a startup. They are well beyond that phase of life. Not only are they not a startup, but they are the pioneer of software defined vehicles.
@privatename123
@privatename123 25 күн бұрын
Sure looks like the only hope for the legacy OEMs is trade barriers. And what do you know, a giant one just occurred. Spin Drs proclaim that buys them time to adapt. Huh? The change needed is epic, from culture to tech to direct distribution to vertical integration to attracting far better talent to de-unionizing. No sweat, lol. So, expect the trade barriers to keep expanding.
@larryevans6739
@larryevans6739 25 күн бұрын
BYD has 102k R&D engineers, more than all US-based OEM's combined. China's greatest advantage is the STEM gap, where they add more engineers to their workforce in a little over 2 years than the US has in total. BYD already uses a comprehensive digital twin. Their product development cycle for a brand new vehicle is just 18 months, a fraction of legacy OEM's. Trade barriers will not help the US catch up. Isolation will only leave us further behind. Collaboration is the best hope for auto manufacturing in the US. We simply can't beat them, so join them.
@daves1646
@daves1646 25 күн бұрын
Prototypes? For sure production intent / early revisions WILL ALWAYS BE MADE Must VERIFY production changes / new innovations made with low waste. Besides, NEED marketing units so the early PI versions will ALWAYS be made.
@urbanstrencan
@urbanstrencan 22 күн бұрын
The topics of digitally creating cars is really interesting, making car just digitally is the future
@ForTheBirbs
@ForTheBirbs 23 күн бұрын
I'm watching from Australia and really enjoy your insights. We're seeing more and more Chinese brands moving into Aus, particularly on the NEV side, with some of these brands ramping up production in Thailand too.
@YICHEN1949
@YICHEN1949 25 күн бұрын
BYD just released hybrid car with 16.2 gallons tank and 1300 miles range.
@larryevans6739
@larryevans6739 25 күн бұрын
And 9.35km/kWh running on just electricity, with enough range to cover daily commutes.
@fatdoi003
@fatdoi003 15 күн бұрын
real world it's around 1500 miles
@timwatson3879
@timwatson3879 19 күн бұрын
...cost reductions in supply chain, development, design...but...what is going to make the corporations reduce the overall cost of the product and not take it as increased profits? ( as they do )
@andrewvercillo7584
@andrewvercillo7584 25 күн бұрын
What a joke this guys answer was. The Legqcy OEMs aren’t even close with their software in their cars to compete with China and Tesla
@GTKdje3
@GTKdje3 25 күн бұрын
You know BYD and couple other Chinese makes use Nvidia and Qualcomm for safety and self driving . Plenty of other manufacturers use same technology.
@directxxxx71
@directxxxx71 18 күн бұрын
​@@GTKdje3 only the hardware not software or even data collected in Chinese roads.
@GTKdje3
@GTKdje3 18 күн бұрын
@@directxxxx71 untrue I know one of the NVIDIA software developers who worked on BYD and other NVIDIA systems in other cars as well. Americans were in China helping to program. BYD even says they use NVIDIAs self driving software in their own PR materials.
@mowensmd
@mowensmd 25 күн бұрын
China owns the vertical, down to minerals. Globally, they own >80% of the ecosystem. That alone shows there is no chance. Second, legacy US and EU will not get past their suppliers, dealers, legacy factories and engineers. They cannot compete. The prior AAH guests have shown that brownfield can't convert. They can't build greenfield. They are cutting their EV plans. The fear is palpable here though. See the Caresoft breakdowns and explanation of how far along the tech innovations are by Tesla. And FSD/Autonomy is about to make them all irrelevant once again.
@fatdoi003
@fatdoi003 15 күн бұрын
u.s mobilize the country on war machines, china mobilize the country on renewables....
@tylernrogers
@tylernrogers 26 күн бұрын
Zero prototypes is an ambitious goal but I’m not sure it makes sense now. GM learned this lesson when they massively culled their validation engineers, OEs need physical prototypes
@mingouczjcz3800
@mingouczjcz3800 25 күн бұрын
Physical prototypes are always needed, no matter what. Software simulation is just for early stages
@junaidisalam5718
@junaidisalam5718 25 күн бұрын
sorry to say, but the only catch up the a merican company good at is Ketchup... how many more bail out and subsidies needed for detroit's big 3 to compete? in asia, you can hardly find detroit's made car...
@daves1646
@daves1646 25 күн бұрын
I'd be concerned about the new high efficiency hybrid or PHEV vehicles from China-based companies that build manufacturing sites inside of 'fair trade partner' countries. These could totally short-sheet the lower cost hybrid or base combustion US domestic market.
@ranig2848
@ranig2848 25 күн бұрын
Unfortunately, legacy is going to go the way of Kodak, Nokia, BlackBerry. At the end of the day they are and will always be “analog” companies, not thinking and executing”digital” and “software” native. They will likely be around for a while, but their market share will keep shrinking and in 10-15 years if they will be able to keep 5% of the market, they’ll be lucky.
@1e2werks15
@1e2werks15 25 күн бұрын
I would like to learn more on how the Chinese make their cars so inexpensive. I understand that their workers are paid much less than in the USA or Europe. What about energy cost. What percent of the cars cost is made up by electricity…to run the plant and to make the parts? I have read where China has a significant electricity cost advantage due to burning more coal than the USA and Europe combined. They burn about 6 times the coal of the USA alone. They are to add 300 coal fired power plants this year. So really Chinese cars could be called “coal cars” … due to their manufacturing and later charging? In the west, coal is being shut down as an electricity source. I would speculate that using coal to make electricity in China is one of their big manufacturing competitive advantages? Appreciate any insight on this. Great job guys!
@larryevans6739
@larryevans6739 25 күн бұрын
Look at the May cover story of Tech Briefs. It talks about how BYD uses comprehensive digital twins to get the new vehicle development cycle down to 18 months. BYD also has 102k engineers in R&D, more than all US OEM's combined. They focus on using engineers to engineer out the cost from products and processes. They spend more of their industry-leading gross margin on R&D and CAPEX than realizing net earnings, which helps them to keep innovating and engineering out the cost of future vehicles. As opposed to the accountant-driven approach of cutting engineering and extending production of existing products to inflate earnings... which can boost financials in the short term but leaves then further behind in the long run. Your coal information is incorrect. In China, utilities apply for permits to have the option available and get approved far more permits approved than are ever built. Of the new plants, most are replacements of older plants, rather than additions. Just last year, China installed more solar capacity than North America has cumulative to date. They are accellerating the shift to renewables faster than anyone. And their price per watt for solar modules is less than 1/4th of the price in the US. We pay more in subsidies than their total unsubsidized cost, while still paying multiple times as much after subsidies. Their storage batteries are also much less expensive, with the gap growing due to US tariffs.
@1e2werks15
@1e2werks15 24 күн бұрын
Thank you for your thoughts on this. Apparently China leads the world on producing engineering graduates. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aMicpcuosbKYeok.htmlsi=NsZdrJkSocYwIb5b
@americannumber2
@americannumber2 16 күн бұрын
You just ignored the renewable energy production in China. It’s also equivalent the rest of the world combined
@vincentdeleonjr1039
@vincentdeleonjr1039 25 күн бұрын
great comment china more people 5 to 1. no one else in media mentions this point thank you for this
@user-kc1tf7zm3b
@user-kc1tf7zm3b 25 күн бұрын
American cars only really matter to Americans, but, the US population only makes up 4% of the world’s population. 96% of the world has easy access to dynamic, modern, quality and affordable Chinese EVs. This explains why China is the world’s largest car manufacturer and exporter. For consumers who are not citizens of the United States, Japan and Germany - 93% of the world’s population - these people could not care less how diabolical and untenable the corporate positions are of the legacy car companies. There is no real affinity, much less loyalty, with foreign car companies. What everyday consumers want is value, affordability and modernity. And this is what the Chinese EVs certainly deliver. At the end of the day, the most competitive, compelling and relevant product will always prevail. This is how the free market works.
@Agent77X
@Agent77X 25 күн бұрын
Elon’s Tesla, Space X, Boring, Neurolink simulation software technology probably a good 20 years ahead of any simulation cutting edge software out there! 😊
@juanvga
@juanvga 25 күн бұрын
Right, Right, Right, Right 🥴🥴🥴
@davidbeppler3032
@davidbeppler3032 25 күн бұрын
The first guest claims Tesla digital copy is 1980's tech, and that his company is using virtual copy that is cutting edge? So, why did the Bolt have a battery recall? Didn't your company predict that 10 years ago? Is your company responible for those deaths?
@moebees3060
@moebees3060 22 күн бұрын
What a load of bull shit!
@johnclark5148
@johnclark5148 26 күн бұрын
Once again Autoline ignores the elephant in the room aka 'Tesla'. First they cite Rivian as the best and then say no in the in the US has cut costs to compete with China......Tesla is number 4 in China
@michaeloreilly657
@michaeloreilly657 26 күн бұрын
No, they discussed Tesla and other software designed vehicles in detail.
@Factoryseconds123
@Factoryseconds123 26 күн бұрын
Hahahaha yes, Tesla, the company that lost the title of longest range EV, the fastest 0-60 EV, the fastest charging EV, the least depreciating EV, the fastest Nurburgring track EV, the most interior space EV ... Is relevant to the discussion 😆🤣
@taylorc2542
@taylorc2542 25 күн бұрын
@@Factoryseconds123 Everything else is just a K-Mart knock off.
@davidpearn5925
@davidpearn5925 25 күн бұрын
Tesla's lineup is limited and ancient and stripped out. Elon couldn't be bothered.
@nguyep4
@nguyep4 25 күн бұрын
​@Factoryseconds123 Tesla is the only one that sold 1.8M pure EV. You are too blinded by hatre. It is amazing. Lol
@wonderplanet343
@wonderplanet343 25 күн бұрын
Chinese EVs may have no repair parts, and how is durability? ❤😂 Scary
@johnmcvicker6728
@johnmcvicker6728 22 күн бұрын
I lose confidence listening to someone end every other sentence with “right?”
@cassidybb10
@cassidybb10 25 күн бұрын
I don't care if my car is globally competitive lol. I buy the car based on my needs and desires. And I'll never buy a Chinese car. Or Japanese.
@logikgr
@logikgr 25 күн бұрын
Okay, boomer.
@user-kc1tf7zm3b
@user-kc1tf7zm3b 25 күн бұрын
American cars only really matter to Americans, but, the US population only makes up 4% of the world’s population. 96% of the world has easy access to dynamic, modern, quality and affordable Chinese EVs. This explains why China is the world’s largest car manufacturer and exporter.
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