being stuck in a cave is my absolute worst nightmare

I can't say it often enough--- as I make my way through this life, I let my steps be guided by one simple rule: if you see a hole in the ground, DON'T GO INTO IT.

When you hear the phrase "broke away from the group", that is always the beginning of problems.

I have listened and read about this several times, even though I almost have a panic attack every time. I cannot even imagine his terror, his family's terror, and the effects on the rescuers who were there. RIP, John.

The thought of this just makes me physically sick. What a horrific way to die. RIP young man 😞

When you said "late 20th century," I felt personally attacked. 😅

Not-so-fun fact: Rescuer Ryan Shurtz suffered terrible facial injuries during the attempted rescue. When that pulley system collapsed a giant carabiner came crashing down on him, busting his jaw, splitting his tongue. he had to seek immediate help for himself. Also, Ryan's dad also worked for the same rescue group and was there and I think his dad went down in the place of Ryan I would have to reread the article if I can find it

To install a ceiling fan electrical box, I wiggled my way solo through the hot attic and trusses of vaulted ceiling and got stuck. After installing the box, I began to panic when I couldn’t move back but was able to calm myself and just relax and breathe. After a spell, ever so slowly, was able to inch my back out. Very frightening experience.

What a horrible story. Why do people do this to themselves? Listening to this just gave me so much anxiety.

Life is not easy to begin with, let alone looking for danger/thrill seeking.

2 points 1) I'm surprised Dr Grande didn't mention how when John Edward Jones was a child, he participated in training drills where he would be stuck in a cave, and cave rescuers would practice their techniques on rescuing him. In fact, his climbing in the Nutty Putty cave was the first time he had climbed since he had last been in a cave acting as a rescue victim as a child. This clouded his vision--when he last caved he had a child's body, but now he had a large adults body, his mind thought he could climb in areas that he could have as a child, not realizing that he was grown and could no longer climb those areas. And also, he had so much experience being rescued, that he just expected he could climb wherever and get rescued like when he was a child. This is why psychologically he made terrible decisions in the Nutty Putty cave. 2) Yes, while the Nutty Putty Cave was considered a beginner and training cave, that was only for certain areas of it. Before John Edward Jones died in the cave, there had been many close calls, which as Dr Grande mentioned, led to the cave being shut down for some time, and only being recently reopened when John Edward Jones made his ill-fated climb into it. The cave had long been criticized for not being well-marked, making it very easy for inexperience climbers to get into the dangerous sections (as John Edward Jones did) instead of staying in the well-mapped areas. It is inexplicable why after so many near misses, signs weren't installed in areas of the cave making it clear which parts were dangerous and unmapped. But for whatever reason, they weren't. John Edward Jones is responsible for his own death, but he isn't responsible for the closing of the Nutty Putty Cave--that responsibility lies on Utah State and their failure to put up relatively cheap signs marking the dangerous parts of the cave, even after repeated incidents that barely escaped death.

What a horrific and senseless death. I’m glad that he wasn’t alone during his final hours. It’s the only silver lining that I would have if I was a family member of his. God bless the rescuers who cared enough to try and save him. I can’t even imagine how difficult that must have been

This is one of the scariest cases I’ve ever heard.

I believe he actually thought it was the birth canal, so he might’ve figured that many people have made it through and that he could get through. By the time he realized it wasn’t, it was too late.

I'm nearly 30 years old and I never knew how to pronounce "carabineer" until now. Thank you Dr. Grande.

I went on a field trip in kindergarten to a cave and I never forgot it because it was so terrifying and I didn’t enjoy any of it ! I was so relieved when we came up to surface and got on the bus to go home! I’ve never ever been interested in caves !!! I don’t understand how it’s thrilling it’s just dark, damp, cold and scary !

I mourn for this young man and his family every time I hear this story.

The fact that the brain damage and amnesia made him realize over and over again that he was in this situation and panic is truely horrific.

I’m assuming his son is about 14 and daughter a couple years older now. I was squirming just listening to this. Can’t imagine the trauma of those 36 hours. Can’t imagine how his brother Josh feels. I’m astonished at his wife’s strength to move on. The closure of going on a family vacation and not even returning with a body or ashes, I can’t imagine what the funeral was like. This is so sad and unfortunate because it was just made progressively worse by bad decision after bad decision.

I nearly got stuck in a cave in Mariana, FL as a kid and have been claustrophobic ever since. Can't sit in the back seat of smaller vehicles, can't fly unless I have an aisle seat, no sleeping bags, no tight clothing. Even listening to this makes me a little panicky.

This story is so horrifying. My claustrophobia could never. Thank you for covering this with your usually thoroughness and compassion. Happy Holidays Dr. Grande and Everyone!

Similar thing happened to me. I got pulled out by my feet. I will never go in a tight space again. I have nightmares about it often.

When I first heard this story a few years ago, I felt anxiety like I never felt before. It has put me off cave exploring for life.

Why anyone would put themselves in that situation is beyond me.

Classic example of the maxim that when you’re in a hole, stop digging. Tragic end, and due sympathies to his family and friends; but his unwise choices brought him there and put other lives at risk.

This case always gives me chills . So much effort was put into trying to save him and it just couldnt be done . I recall they called an ER / Trauma doc in to help . Since he was essentially upside down he suffocated on his own fluids . The ER doc said he could hear it in his voice ( they had some radio communication ) as his voice kept getting more nasally . Just horrifying .

Dr. Grande rarely takes sick leave or vacations, and it seems like he is always working without any leisure time. He truly deserves a break. Let's show our support for Dr. Grande by liking, commenting, donating, and subscribing. This will help him continue doing what he loves. Thank you, Dr. Grande, for all that you do. We appreciate the laughter, the knowledge, and your unwavering dedication.

Perhaps you are unaware of how many previous emergency call outs had happened at that location, even before John died. Or that safety improvements had very recently been made, but this tragedy still occurred. The family and the trust that owns the land are okay with the public visiting the land and memorial to John / the rescuers that worked so hard to save him that day, but the cave is tomb now. They don't want people risking their lives to have morbid tourism moments down there... and I don't blame them.

This is one of the very reasons I will never go venturing into caves, above or below the water. Call me boring and un- adventurous if you must, but there are plenty of ways to die just standing up right on land.

This is truly horrific and I feel very badly for John. I think they closed the cave because of the danger not just to cavers but to any rescuers if something bad happened again. Plus they probably wanted to keep ghoulish curiosity seekers away from a grave site.

two corrections: 1. 4:18 it is clear and explicable why john went that way...he thought he was going into the birth canal. he just took the wrong turn, and he didn't realize he took the wrong turn. 2. the reason he kept "pushing forward" was because he thought it was the birth canal the whole time, which opens up at the end. because he knew the birth canal opens up, he pushed through adamantly, not realizing he wasn't in the birth canal at all

I agree with you up to a point. But I think that the fact that they left him in the cave has a GREAT deal with closing it permanently. How can you have a tour of a cave with the remains of a dead body inside?

I would have been dead within the first hour from freaking out. I got trapped between my bed and the wall when I was a kid and have had a bit of claustrophobia ever since. I can't and don't want to imagine what that poor guy went through. But why would he take such a risk when he had a family and so much promise?

Wow. 2 or 3 days back I was thinking in my head about how out of everything you’ve covered since I started following you a few years back, you had never covered this specific case. And then this morning I see this notification… what a crazy coincidence. Thanks for the upload, as always!

Just imagining being stuck like that makes me almost physically sick. Usually, I'm not claustrophobic, but this is my biggest fear. To be stuck somewhere, unable to move, not even as much as to end my own life. I can't even imagine the panic and horror. And I don't want to.

When i lived near Nutty Putty i always declined to go. At the time, it was pre-internet and there wasn't accessible information about who owned/maintained the area, maps, etc. I happened to be in the area again during this Thanksgiving and it was awful--everyone with their TVs on hoping he would be saved like Baby Jessica.....and then he wasn't. And it was horrible for him. What heartache for those who lost him and the rescuers who tried so hard. Just awful.

This story has always given me such chills 😢

Leaving his body there, was a memorial for him. It is also a warning for other potential cave explorers, to be careful.

When I first heard this story, I was instantly angry with Mr. Jones. I am of the opinion that if you are a married person with a family, then you do not have the right to engage in reckless, risky behavior that could get you killed. You owe it to your family to try to stay alive and be there for them. It pains me to think about how his wife must have suffered and I see him as responsible for that.

From my perspective, somebody almost twice as old as this poor boy, reckless behaviour among young men is just appalling. "John and two other friends decided to break off from the group and search for more adventure." / "Instead of the Birth Canal, John ventured into an unmapped passageway that was extremely tight. This move was inexplicable. It's not clear what motivated John to do this." / "In yet another inexplicable move, John decided to climb head first down into the crevice. He immediately became stuck."

This story has been following me lately! I originally watched a video about it a couple years ago and lately I’ve seen so many videos about it pop up on YT. I watched a fatal breakdown video about it that made me nauseous from how detailed it was. It’s so horrifying to think he crawled into his own grave. I love your videos Dr Grande and can’t wait to watch this one!

Went looking for the birth canal, to find the death canal.

Son of a friend went caving with friends. All got out when he noticed he lost his cell phone in cave. Against friends advice, he started back down and fell on his head. He is permanently disabled, living with his parents at age 53. Rash decisions can cause catastrophe.

This has been my nightmare for YEARS. What a horrific way to go. Awful. Rip to that young man

This poor man and his family. None of us makes perfect decisions all the time. My heart ached just listening.

I'm sorry, whilst I sympathise that it is a very unfortunate and sad incident, I think John is not only very silly, but he seems selfish to an extent - especially knowing you have a child on the way( his son).

This is the one story I struggle to get through after watching a breakdown of the whole incident on another channel. It's so tragic and you can't help but feel overwhelming empathy for this guy. Just the description of the vents is enough to make me feel it.

I was living in Salt Lake City when this happened. It was excruciating, I cannot imagine that poor man and his family.

I blame the cave. It had a horrible attitude of indifference throughout the hole situation

This story touched me in so many ways. I can’t imagine the pain that he felt when he was upside down for such a long time. Just another example to not mess with Mother Nature. She can be a bitch! Great Analysis Dr Grande!

I agree with Dr Grande's two opinions in the aftermath: 1) They should have, and could have, recovered the body. 2) The cave should have remained opened. I think they should have only sealed off the section John went into while leaving the rest of the cave accessible.

There was a fascinating article on this that I read years back that contained interviews and testimonials from the rescue workers. It really put the horror and hopelessness of the situation into perspective. You can't help but feel for the people who were there. Unfortunately the article cut off right in the middle of one of the rescue worker's recounting of the story, and I could never find the full article anywhere.

Hey Dr. G, you did an excellent job describing the experience of caving. This is a sport that should never be underestimated for its level of danger. It’s good to share with others so they can be mindful of such an undertaking.❤

I had never seen true darkness until I went spurlunking for my geology college class. The cave was in Flagstafff AZ ...and I will never go again!!!! It was soooo scary!

This was the first Dr Grande video that I had to bail out of as soon as he started describing that narrow crevice. I've never had a panic attack in my 75 years or throughout my career as a physician, but this description brought me close enough that I made the wise move to abort the rest of the narrative! Sheesh!

This story always freaks me out. Its scarier than any horror story to think about being wedged into a crevice while upside down. Poor guy. RIP 🙏

People can be so strange. A cave is a geological formation that exists on a different timeline than humans. Most are formed over millions of years by tectonic shift, volcanic activity, water movement and glacial metamorphosis. Humans rarely live beyond 100 years and have free-will and are able to use judgement and reason, most of the time. John was a medical student, who was building his family. He had a lot to lose, but he went ahead and made what I think is a completely illogical chain of decisions to get himself hopelessly stuck. Blaming the cave is ridiculous. He used extremely poor critical thinking skills. I've been caving before and I got stranded in a cave in the 1980s when my flashlight suddenly died. It was late at night and I had paddled out in an inflatable raft to an island in the lake where I had found the cave. One person was with me, but he decided to stay out of the cave until I got back out. When my light died, I kept my cool and began to feel my way further ahead to a sinkhole I knew about deeper in the cave. The way back would have required me to wade through a cavern full of water, which seemed more dangerous. It took a long time of crawling, but I eventually hit a wall and looked straight up, where I could see a very small patch of stars directly above me, hovering in the pitch blackness. I carefully climbed the wall of rock in the vertical portion of the cave, up to of the sinkhole, where I finally clambered out to the forest floor. My friend was relieved to see me. I never went caving again after that.

His brother must of been terrified... Going in feet first to try to save John then realizing you have to leave him in the dark upside down...

I will never understand caving as a hobby. What's so enticing about spending very long periods of time inside of dark, damped, hot, incredibly tight and dangerous places?

Its so scary to think that a fun time can turn so deadly so quickly. I feel so sorry for this man having to pass so horrifically.

Even tho I’ll never go in a cave or climb a mountain, both getting stuck in a cave or falling off a mountain are fears of mine.

Would also love to see you cover the Gollum Cave incident. Four teens and young adults drowned, with the first corpse trapping the other three still alive. The Cave is now closed off.

Dr Grande, I have watched at least a dozen videos on this tragic story. You are the first one to describe in epic detail the nuances of how absolutely panic inducing that experience must have been for John. I could actually imagine for the first time. Horrific accident. Well done on your script. May John rest in peace.

I have heard this story reported at least 20 times on 20 different channels, but the details still make me squirm every time. RIP buddy.

Bad decision or not, we all think we're invincible when young, is sad some of us don't get a chance to live & learn. Too damn young, poor decision or not. My condolences to his loved ones.

Hi Dr Grande I remember reading about this case also see the movie "The Last Descent". To say it is beyond horrific is totally an understatement, especially he eventually died there, where the cave is now sealed. I don't have claustrophobia but just reading about this case that feeling kind of lingers as I read about it. Thank you so much for giving the case analysis about this. Also I would like to recommend to do a case on Lou Pearlman , because I felt everyone deserves to know the case, in which at least for me reminds me of be careful of someone who to trust. I would like to know your take on that analysis. Thank you

R.I.P John. It's almost as if he was in a child-like state when he saw that narrow entrance; all those childhood adventures in the cave came back to him and he ventured forward with unhindered youthful exuberance. In that child-like state he forgot he was no longer a child but a grown man - too big for that tiny space. One mistake can cost you your life. Doesn't define his life to me, though. Sounds likes he was a great family man.

It doesn't matter how many times I hear this story wherever I am I feel claustrophobic and trapped. Im lying in bed right now and I feel like walls are closing in on me.

I saw a youtube video about this a few years ago..What a nightmare!!

This story has haunted me for years. I literally have had recurring nightmares of entrapment like this since childhood. God bless his soul and his family.

Excellent analysis. I agree with all of your points. The horror of his death is matched by the incredibly bad choices he made. To know that your situation is desperate and then to descend into an even narrower vertical hole in the bottom of the passage way was a spectacular decision. His inability to admit he made a mistake and needed help killed him. It also had significant detrimental effects on everyone involved in trying to save him and everyone who cared for him.

I seem to recall reading that recovering his body would have been too dangerous. They even considered digging him out with heavy equipment, but considering that there was no time restrictions it does make me wonder why they felt it was too dangerous. :\

I would rather be ripped apart by sharks or a bear than die in a cave. My dad convinced me to scuba dive in a cave system , super deep . No thanks, never again. There's an even worse story of another cave disaster in Utah where these kids jump in a hole with water and swim to other side ! Like who does that ?! They all died and drowned 😢.

This is one of the many stories that made me never want to go spelunking.

This story gives me the chills in a major way. Reminds of my dad telling me to never go down a dark alley. Not the same story but could have the same results. rip

Remember, if you’re going to do something stupid it’s best to be smart about it.

This is why I don't go in caves. Being buried alive is my worst nightmare.

Wow this story reminds me of the Sand Cave disaster in Mammoth Caves Nat'l Park, KY and how Floyd Collins was entombed after ridiculous and endless misfortune would strike rescue efforts at every turn.

I once climbed into a life-size reproduction of the Mercury capsule used by early astronauts. It was made of plastic, and was in a museum where people were allowed to climb into it to get an idea what it was like. But truth be told, I'm too large to be a Mercury astronaut. Once I got in and had my fill of the experience I realized it was going to be very difficult to get out. Of course, this was in a museum and I could have asked for help. It wasn't too busy that day, there weren't too many people around, but if I had yelled somebody would have come. I very quickly became panicked and had to expend some effort to regain my composure. After calming myself, I was able to climb out in a very awkward and ungainly fashion. I certainly learned a lesson about crawling into small places, and that was in a place where there wasn't any real danger. I think it gave me some tiny insight, in a very small way, how horrible it would be to be stuck in a cave, 100 ft underground. The thought chills me.

I will never ever understand WHAT is the thrill/fun that people can experience from crawling into narrow and dark spaces, sometimes to the point that they can't breathe??

Very sad outcome but it was all preventable. I feel sad for the guy, but he made some really poor choices.

I have heard this story before. Horrific way to spend your last day alive. May John rest in peace. Great analysis as always Dr. Grande

The description of his final hours makes my heart race. RIP JOHN. 🙏

Nope. I can't finish this video.

This case was horrific, but i couldn't help but bust out laughing at the thought of a few town folks gathering with pitforks and torches to get mad at a cave

After watching Mr. Ballen videos, I will never go caving or diving. Never ever!!

Dr. Grande is my favorite! The soothing voice is so relaxing, without being awkward ASMR. But the dry wit and story telling are engaging enough that I pay attention and am distracted from my anxiety. Best channel to wind down with at the end of the day.

Doesn't seem real safe, I believe closing it has saved lives.

I couldve sworn Dr G had already covered Johns horrible case? Absolutely horrifying what he went through

oh god you're doing THIS case...

I used to explore this cave a lot in the 1970s and 80s. I fully agree with Dr. Grande's analysis. Closing this cave was stupid. It was one of the safest caves in the area. We would send beginners there for their first cave experience. I took my young kids through it, and they had a great adventure. From my understanding John had been in this cave before and thought he was heading down a familiar tight passage, but he went down a different passage by mistake. This would explain why he pushed ahead and thought he could emerge into a larger passage. Caves are full of tight passages that people can't fit through, but generally claustrophobia and common sense keep people from pushing so far into such passages that they can't get out.

I've never been caving, but watch a lot of cave disaster videos. The Nutty Putty incident comes up frequently. Being LDS, sometimes I'll see John's wife interviewed in articles from the Church about dealing with tragedy and maintaining one's faith, etc. I always figured that they had to seal the cave, but now I think that, freed of time constraints, they should retrieve his body and open it back up. I don't know why people with small children and pregnant wives do this kind of thing. That is, I understand why, psychologically, but don't know why they can't get past their need for thrills. This also happens with mountain climbers (lots of disaster videos about that, too), who are bound and determined to do what they want, and to heck with the consequences for their loved ones should they meet disaster.

Oh no. From the title I am pretty sure I know which case this is. I saw another video about it and it’s the only video I can ever remember not being able to finish. It often crosses my mind and I get chills, like now. This might be the only video of yours I don’t watch, Dr. Grande.

Closing the cave was not to honor the deceased, it was to prevent additional people from using that location to join him. Once an attraction is the site of a gruesome death it has an effect of associating that attraction with death. This association would result in attracting people interested in seeking self harm or suicide methods to that specific venue in order to hurt or kill themselves. Sealing the cave prevents future intentional (or unintentional) mishaps from occurring. The state/locality the cave is located in most likely does not have the budget to either extract the body and/or deal with the future liability attached to maintaining the cave for future use.

The fact people complained about sealing up the cave is just as ridiculous as people who climb Everest and walk past people freezing to death.

I feel sorry for his wife and children. He wasn't thinking about them when he decided to take this risk. What a stupid man. I'm not saying he deserved to die, of course, or that I don't feel bad for him, but he let machismo and hubris get to him and encourage him to do something he knew that in reality was potentially dangerous when he had a family to consider.

As always, thank you for these slices of intrigue, no matter how grim they might sometimes be.

I was literally telling someone about this story yesterday… the world works in mysterious ways 😂

So tragic - particularly given how close they were to rescuing John.

Rather than close the entire cave, they should have permanently sealed off the passage he was in, and put a plaque at the entrance to the cave - leaving the rest of the cave open to others.