We already live in that dystopian world. That was a brilliant way to put it.

I think the bible is an awesome book. It presents such a compelling argument for Atheism that I am tempted to believe it was written by Atheists.

“Good morning! How’d you sleep?” “Like god during the holocaust!”

great video....free from religion for 3 months...after 43 years

When I was a child around 10 years of age, another child in our church got cancer and died. It was horrible. While the child was still alive but very, very sick, a group of people from church visited his mother to inform her that the reason god was killing her son was because her husband was an alcoholic. I began doubting then. I wasn't a full-on atheist until I was 14.

My thoughts were closer to home, and how our predecessors slaughtered millions of Native Americans in cold blood. It seems that the dystopian world you described is real.

When I was a child around 4-5 I took pride in my name being Joshua. When I read the stories of Joshua in the Bible I was devastated. Now a days when ever a little old lady compliments me for my name being from the Bible I say something along the lines of, “Isn’t it great to be named after a genicidal murderer? It’s like an ancient version of Hitler.” They always either look at me in confusion because they don’t get it, or they go into a rage that I would disrespect the Bible in such a way. Worst part is when I asked my family if they would respect me enough to call me by a new name if I legally changed it, they told me no, despite knowing my reason for wanting to change it.

"The wall of Jericho fell down flat, The walls of Jericho fell down flat, as the children of god were praising the Lord, the walls of Jericho fell down flat" Sunday school song.. only recently did I realize I had been taught to happily sing about genocide as a child.

Its not just in Christianity, but look at American history. Part of the American mythology involves ignoring or even justifying the genocide of the American Indians. Maybe that's one of the reasons why Christian Fundamentalism and the belief in American Exceptionalism go so well together.

I was going to say something in defense of theists until I realized I didnt want to play the role of devils advocate.

I need to watch this 5 more times so that I can know and memorize every nook and cranny of this argument. Thank you!

Holy crap, nonstampcollector, . . . . . . that was an amazingly thought out and constructed argument. WELL done, sir!

Damn dude, that was stunning. Mircophone-drop, slow-clap worthy.

Reading the Bible, and seriously thinking about what was going on in the story, I came across the story of Joshua. I came to the realization that if the God of the Bible is real I could not give such a being my worship or respect. The realization of the points you stated so eloquently in this video is the reason I'm an Athiest. Well spoken.

Bolo1465 : open your account to receive replies to your comment. When I can't reply, I delete.

oh my god this destroys this argument so thoroughly I was wincing throughout the entire video...

"Oh, but that was all OLD Testament." Okay, show me where in the New one they said that the Old is invalid. Also, isn't it the same God that condoned these atrocities in the Old that magifucked a virgin Jew and had a half-mortal baby, that was also himself incarnate, that then went around and did all that revered New Testament stuff? Did Yahweh change his mind (which would mean he's not perfect, or at least not omniscient), or had he simply done enough genocide and condoned enough horror (which would make him malevolent)?

We have a pretty good idea of why what we call morals would evolve. Altruism and cooperation can actually be the dominant strategy rather than selfishness. The idea that we need a belief in a deity to keep us in line is untrue. Millions of atheists who have no desire to kill or steal are demonstrations of this. Most social animals also exhibit some level of morality and sense of fairness without a belief in the Christian God.

I've been watching these for days straight in quarantine and I have to say you are so well spoken and always address every bit of the argument without seeming pedantic.Its absoloutely awesome.We really need a person like you to debunk Kent hovind today and those flat earthers.I love your content.I hope your doing well during these times

I still have trouble deciding if this, or "The Thing That Made the Things for Which there is No Known Maker" is your best work.

I already liked your videos before, but THIS, this absolutely nails it. How you demolished the argument and turned it around to point out the ridiculous hypocrisy, just brilliant. The last time I have heard such a sophisticated and yet straightforward broadside on Christian apologetics was Chris Hitchens, and that's saying something!

At 5:40 my eyes blew wide open in realization of the counter argument and that was crazier than any twist ending in a movie

Slightly late(!) But I don't think a nail has been hit on it's head quite so accurately than it has with this argument here! Absolutely brilliant!

I keep coming back to this and sharing it more than 5 years later.

No need to go as far back as the old testament. Americans used two atomic bombs on Japan during WW2 and it was deemed as necessary to end the war. Now atomic weapons are seen as a deterrent NEVER to be used, but at the time Truman deemed it necessary and justified, now people deem it necessary and justified and Truman is considered a hero for taking that decision. How would a president be considered NOW for dropping an atomic bomb anywhere? Even if it, for example, reduced the american presence in Iraq to only one day?

As someone with a Jewish background, I find this video touches on reality in an amazingly blunt and truthful. I plan and showing this to many of my friends.

I always hear Christians speak about morality and hold the Bible up as the standard for morality. But is the Bible the standard of morality in our modern culture here in the USA? I say NO...the Bible is not our standard of morality. The God of the Bible endorsed slavery....we do not practice slavery. The God of the Bible endorsed genocide...we do not. The God of the Bible treats women as second class citizens....we do not. The God of the Bible endorses a Monarchy....we are a Democracy. The God of the Bible endorses death for Homosexuals and Heretics....we do not. The God of the Bible is prejudiced against the handicapped....we make every effort to accommodate the needs of the handicapped. I suppose if I thought a little more I would think of more immoral practices of the God of the Bible

This was genius. Also, I find very interesting that the best morality come to us naturally IN SPITE OF religion, rather than BECAUSE OF religion. That's an strong point in favour of secular morality.

This video was one of your best.

you are brilliant NonStampCollector, i grew up in a christian home and ever since i turned my back on it ive been trying to convince my family to do the same. You helped open my eyes to the blatant rampant disgusting nature of the bible, in other words, you played a huge roll in undoing twenty years worth of brainwashing in school, church, and family life with a handful of videos, and a little bit of common sense. For that i thank you

I guess in 2024, you dont really need to imagine a hypotheical hiter scenario... Just look at all the ways people try to justify what's going on in Gaza.

Oftentimes heroes are merely villains whose deeds history half remembers.

Morality is in my opinion a very simple and easy to understand concept. Pursue your life to its fullest potential without causing harm or suffering to others. Does that not make sense?

I wish I could have articulated this to my parents when I was a kid.

All the time I was listening to this, I could only think about the genocide happening live in Gaza and how the Cristians keep on justifying it, even with the facts and even video in their faces

The winners write the history books

slam dunk NSC! epic. congrats, you've just made my playlist of the Top 20 Pro-Atheist Videos on KZfaq.

oh boy, this video aged like fine wine (timestamp: November 20th 2023)

Religion is not the solution to problems; religion IS the problem

I rarely comment, but I have to say, I am honestly compelled to say, that was brilliant. No shouting, no hyperbole, no name-calling, just a well-reasoned and beautifully articulated piece of art. Wow.

I like to go back and rewatch a lot of these old videos and think about how I felt watching them for the first time when I was still religious it's been years now and I still enjoy this

This is one of the many things that stuck with me when i was 16 and reading this. I didnt find your video until now (over 10 years later) but this very argument i had with my religious friends while at the time, still being religious myself.

Just found this channel. I hope you keep making vids. Regardless of the serious issues that I love hearing about. They actually get me laughing out loud! I appreciate it

Thank you so much for this video. You addressed a question I've been asking myself for quite some time, and that is where does this almost innate sense of morality that so many of us seem to have come from? Of course the question cannot be clearly answered, but you RIPPED Christians here and demonstrated flawlessly how it cannot possibly come from their god. You are brilliant. I'm definitely subscribing. Keep up the good work!

Funny how appalled American Christians can be about stonings by modern Muslims in Muslim countries right now, but happily justify and even embrace the same thing (and often for the same reasons) in the Bible. (While the irreligious are consistent in judging both the same way.)

Netanyahu needs to see this.

Why do I want to shout AMEN on hearing this message?????😂❤️🌱❤️

In my church, I grew up singing about the conquest of Jerhico. It was preached as the power of god and superiority of the chosen people. When I thought more of it and read the story, I realized we were celebrating a genocide

Yeah Dude! I love the animated videos but this style also worked out beautifully. Totally win!

If this video doesn't get Christians to rethink their belief, I don't know what will!

For the Stalin example, can we just take a moment to appriciate how similar God is? Worship me, or go to Hell. Worship me, or go to Gulag.

Just watched this. Outstanding! And even more appropriate today than when it was first uploaded, sadly. P.S. This should have billions of views. The world would be a far better place...

Absolutely brilliant, NonStamp, from beginning to end. Well done.

8:36 "Reference: seriously, just read the Old Testament." That's the closest thing to the word of a god I've ever come across. Right behind, "You are not worthy." (Thor)

Is it *so* hard for *so* many theists to understand that morality is likely subjective, but *not* arbitrary? That the morality we understand is most likely specific to the *kind* of intelligent(able to make informed decisions, to know "right" from "wrong", is part of being "moral" in every definition I'm aware of)animals we are? Morality seems to me to be obviously rooted in evolutionary survival of social(but not eusocial) groups that led to modern man, it is rooted in empathy and social cohesion/functioning, and the societal/cultural codification/refinement of ethics/morality is the result of our applying our advanced reasoning abilities to those basic moral foundations we evolved with. I think this view of morality, mainly from socio-biology and the philosophy of "Natural law", is the best, most viable model we have, and will ultimate prove to be the "right" answer.

Oh wow, my mind has just been blown! Are you still producing these types of videos? I'd pay for that! This is the best argument against Judeo-Christian religiousity I have seen.

Reading Exodus is what began to destroy my faith. Being a Christian is easy until you really start to read the Bible... the more I read the harder it was to believe. What comes out of the pulpit and in Christian literature is seldom what comes out of the Bible.

Hitler said: "I will always be and remain, a Catholic."

Talk about knocking the discussion of religious morality out of the park. Home Run! Not hard to think about an immoral culture that believes genocide was good if you refer back to the Bible. The book itself is repulsive. The apologetics is even more repulsive.

I tread Godwin's law in this way: Bringing up Hitler is an appeal to discussing hitler and derailing the conversation. When a Christian apolagetic - or anyone else - first brings up Hitler, that is the end of that conversation. It's the admission of whomever brought it up "I have nothing. I want to talk about hitler now, not whatever it was we were initially talking about." It's a nothing. It's a piece of blank silence in regards to the conversation, and only retracting the idea of bringing up Hitler can let the conversation go forward.

How many years until people can grow that moustache again without people thinking of Hitler?

Beautifully done NSC! Epic video.

If you tell them about the fucked up verses or verses they don't like from the Old Testament, like animal sacrifice (Leviticus 17:1-7), they'll say that the "Ceremonial laws" were superseded by the New Covenant when Jesus died. If you ask them about the verses that aren't fucked up or verses they like, like gay people and beastiality are icky (Leviticus 18:22-3), they'll say it's proof of the absolute moral truth of the Bible, call it "Moral law," and say Jesus didn't destroy the old law (Matthew 5:17). They pick and choose which verses are ceremonial or moral, and the standard by which they do this is not based on any scripture I can name. Man, if only there could have been a prophet to come down at God's behest and clear this sort of stuff up... like if God had a son who came to preach and to deliver a NEW scripture and stuff, y'know?

Right on. Thanks for sharing.

Morality has always been subjective.

If anyone wants a perfect definition of the verb "to finesse," please watch and listen from 9.51 The term is usually used in game play (especially cards) , when you use a stratagem at a point within the game, which makes the result inevitable (in your favour) - "finessing" especially makes it impossible for an opponent to even respond in a meaningful way - let alone to compete or win - and that's exactly what you have done with your magnificent exposure of the totally flawed, unsustainable and idiotic claim of *any* objective morality within the scriptures. This is great work - and I'm glad I found it, again, on Christmas day!

I found this 9 years later, and wow, that dystopian world you speak of seems to be getting closer on a number of fronts :(

Imagine this reversed. A Christian in an alternate universe saying "What if Hitler lost? Letting Jews live would be seen as moral, but would it REALLY be moral?"

Now THAT was bloody brilliant!

Really thoughtful and thought provoking. Thanks, NSC.

Not even mentioning Hitler was Catholic so was his ideology rooted as well

I miss your videos, brother. You really do have a talent for this. I have watched all of your videos at least twice, and I am going thru them again. I have never done that with any of the other atheist KZfaqrs. Every thought about making a living doing creative work like this?

Brilliant video. You're hitting the nail on its head with a sledgehammer.

God dun it.

I remember a time when I was still a traditionalist Christian and I mentioned to my dad how murdering someone in order to get someone else saved would be moral if you were commanded to do so by God. His response was that "means don't justify any end even if it looks moral." It would make more sense to not have a morality that tells you the opposite, or that had means that did justify any end that logically followed.

I just cited this video for about the 100th time. In 7+ years on YT, I STILL don't think I have seen a better one!

I've heard this argument in other forms but not quite on this manner. This is a well thought out version. Nice job.

Your logic and educational points are extraordinary! I love your vids. Please keep them coming!

Spot on. This is one of the best counter arguments that I have ever read or heard, and I've read and heard a lot. Congratulations on your top-level criticism. I wish I could say it more eloquently without coming across as a creep ;-) I left the church after getting more and more angry by the hypocrisy. I wasn't brought up religious, I chose to go to church - initially because my friend went there but soon out of personal commitment. I chose to become confirmed at 13. My atheist father said nothing against my choice. But as I grew up and heard about Jesus's love, yet heard hatred for women priests then gay Christians, it was then that I opened my eyes to the wider hate that was around, and that was in the CofE! Back in 2000, we got on the internet, and I heard about fundamentalists in America in particular. It was then that I knew I was going to fight. I'd already left the church, but by then I'd realised that I'd spent about 30 years of my life unwittingly harming others, in complete contrast to the faith I'd thought I'd been brought up in. Perhaps because I had been initially a member of the Church in Wales, a disestablished church from the Church of England, I'd heard different readings. But I doubt it because on moving to England, I honestly don't remember any readings from the OT except for some Psalms (and being Welsh, I have a natural affinity for poetic writings and songs) and similar verses. The churches I attended over time, one in a small city, the other in a tiny village, were both very open and loving. It was from other sources that I heard vile words being spouted - by those who picketed the General Synod to try yet again to prevent women from being vicars, and from those inside who represented them. They quoted "Saint" Paul. I'd never had any time for him (even my RE teacher, a wonderful, devout lady, had no time for him!) but I felt distinctly uncomfortable with the way his writing was being used. They had not stopped speaking as a child, neither had they put away their childish things, yet were more than willing to stop women from being vicars and even to shut women up entirely. And some of those pickets were women! They were like sheep voting for a large mutton stew to be on the menu. Like I said, it was the anti-LGBT [name something! "People" seems too good for them!] which pushed me over the edge. Initially I went back to my heritage and, without joining any group, felt drawn to become Pagan. All people are welcome, as all are part of our Mother Earth. Maybe I still feel like that, but I usually describe myself as a lapsed Pagan if anyone asks ;-) It raises eyebrows! What I did realise was that paganism, especially looking after the Earth, made far more sense to me than a bronze-iron age book of mythology (which says we own the place!) on which to hang my beliefs. I'm 100% pro-science, I have to have things proven before I totally believe them now, hence my lack of action in paganism. I'm agnostically pagan I suppose. I do know that I want to be buried in a field in a cardboard coffin and an oak tree planted on top of me. That way I'll live, after a fashion, for centuries. This way of thinking actually took away my fear of death. No, I was never bothered about hell or whatever, it was something I can't describe which gave me nightmares. Understanding about the exchange of atoms from my body to nature brought an immense sense of relief. Silly, I know. Sorry for going so completely off-topic. I had intended to make some points in agreement, add historical facts about anti-Semitism (it affected my father-in-law's family in the 1890s), even to give Biblical references. It seems that the final part of your excellent video triggered something in me. I'm currently finding it hard to type as I'm crying my eyes out. Please keep on fighting for reason, logic and against the fundamentalists who destroy other people's lives. I'm going to carry on with my campaigning for LGBTQ+ rights, along with standing up for the vulnerable. Things are better but there's still a way to go, especially as there's been an increase in hate crimes since the EU referendum. It's as if the lid has been lifted from the previously privately bigoted. Go figure. Again I apologize for this, but I can't bring myself to delete it. Take care.

The morality that condemns Hitler is the same that which condemns waterboarding and other morally indefensible acts today. We *instinctually* know that killing others for political reasons is wrong no matter how you justify it.

If the christian God was the answer".......well...IF he's really out there...he failed miserably as a "loving God ", by watching millions of people dying in wars, and NOT moving a finger to stop it.

"One simply needs to be honest with themselves." Unfortunately, theists make it their life's work to be *DISHONEST* with themselves. Most of them can have their noses directly rubbed in the truth, and they come out of it spewing their prepared script with renewed vigor. However, excellent video! If only any of them were capable of hearing it.

Very good argument Non-stamp collector. Thank you. Sadly, I just read some of the comments below and I am blown away at how many people do NOT get it. Pathetic.

First thought was ‘like... how everyone used to think slavery was okay...?’

This is a keeper! The understanding and insight given out in this video is as valuable a response to morality I have come across. No matter the context! Thank you NSC.

Non Stamp Collector, this is perfect! You and DarkMatter2525, were two of the first channels I subbed to when I finally got on 'social media', (YT) in my fifties. I'd been anti-theist for many years, just didn't have the vocabulary, or realization. You both have made me laugh, cry, and even better, think! Also of course, the 'Four Horseman'! And now many others. If I wasn't beyond broke, I be a major patron! I think our 'community', should have some super awards for truly brilliant artists like you. Love and Peace

This is probably the most compelling argument against Christianity that I've ever heard, after hearing this, you really can't justify your disgust for mass murder and genocide without turning that same hatred on to the cruel actions of your god and his chosen people.

I'm an atheist and I can tell you this is my morality. . . Hurt no one, help as many as I can, we are all we have in life and love and death, we need each other to survive, we cling to each other to grow, and we serve our fellow man in a hopes to dissolve suffering.

I think Goku and Superman are far better examples of moral integrity than any individual from the bible. They save the world and never ask anybody for praise.

There is NO HATE like Christian love!

I really enjoyed this video...you make excellent points. I am sharing it on my Pinterest religion board. A wider audience needs to hear your message.

''My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.'' -Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

I can see were this is going quite fast and I think I will like the argument after only 2 minutes.

You have a fatal flaw in your argument. They have a book so your logic can't be right. :P

Without WW2 the Beatles would never have formed. Nor would the 60's "British Invavsion" have taken place.

Great work, you have given this more tough than 1,000,000,000 Christians combined.

I've seen this video before, and it is one of the best. Really illustrated the problem with Christian morality. Morality is really simple though. Do no harm. Exceptions: defense of the helpless and self-defense from an out of control/openly hostile aggressor. It doesn't "come from" anywhere. It's an evolved understanding that we are communal, that we get more done cooperating and caring for each other.

Very eloquent, logical and well presented. Thank you for your admirable perspective and thought-provoking style. I enjoy all of your work, but this video is extraordinary. Good day to you, sir.

A Pastor at a church nearby me spoke about that Bible TV series claiming "Oh, it was a violent time back then!"

Morality is based on empathy, which arises naturally in social species like humans. "Societies" in which every person only cares for him or herself do not survive.