Yep classic Golden Child(ren) and Scapegoat dynamic going on

Good point!!!👌😎

Why?

@@DBSG1976 well, i believe it's a natural extension of human behavior. People have favorites, even favorite children - it's natural and, under normal circumstances, nothing to be ashamed of. With a Golden Child situation, that favoritism is simply taken to to such an extreme that it becomes abusive and toxic. It could also simply be a scapegoating situation - it's far easier to focus blame for problems at a single source, justified or not. If a child already exists at or near the bottom of an abusive parents totem pole, they'd be the natural target for such scapegoating.

The infamous "DaddyOFive" KZfaq channel regularly targeted one of the children for their sadistic "pranks," even encouraging the other kids to join in when they were clearly uncomfortable doing so.

Not alienating, alarming

Spoon Clank I do think Joan was mentally ill. Of course, that’s not an excuse, but it might explain why she inexplicably beat Christina with a wire hanger. Joan Crawford was also a neat freak and germaphobe, so she could have had an undiagnosed case of OCD.

@@beethovensfidelio wire hangers being common way of home abortions and abortion being the suspected reason for her infertility might have something to do with it as well.

Believe me, you're NOT the only one who knows Dunaway's performance isn't necessarily over the top!

She needed a checkup from the neck up. - Buggs Bunny

Internet, bring me the 🪓. JK, Completely agreed

How was that funny? That's what I asked while watching the review.

I never got that, either. I mean, isn't she the one buying the kid's clothes? If wire hangers will send her into a near homicidal rage, then why doesn't she buy other hangers? The poor girl just used what was in her closet.

@@origamipein18 I agree. My own mom did something similar to me over putting clothes on wire hangers. All I remember from the rant is that it warps the clothes or some shit. My only thought as a kid was, "Why do we have wire hangers in the house to begin with?"

Reminds me of Roger Ebert's review of Jenny McCarthy's performance in DIRTY LOVE: he admitted it was a very bad performance, yet admired its sheer fearlessness!

Agree with Brad Jones--I thought she was Oscar-worthy in this!

I love the Cinema snob. I actually ran into him when I went to go see war for the planet of the apes in Springfield where he used to live. I had watched him for years and legit didn't know he lived in Springfield until I ran into him 😆😆😆. It's funny because I looked back and he mentioned where he lived in his videos several times.

@@jerraldwest2935 I thought he still lived there...........has he moved since then?

@@davidl570 he moved to Chicago to be closer to his friend Doug Walker so they can do more crossovers. He now records most episodes of the Cinema snob in the channel awesome studio building.

I myself became very explosive as a child, because I had learned early on that if I could either hurt my mother's feelings enough to upset her, she'd leave me alone. Consequently, if I could enrage her enough, I'd get screamed at, _a lot,_ but that would be all. As a result I was very sullen, argumentative, and quick to anger. I'm 35 now and I'm still unpacking all of that trying to change those patterns.

@@WobblesandBean oof. I am so sorry you went through that. Healing from childhood trauma is a long and hard path, and I hope you find support and healing.

@@Discworld-Edge-Witch Thanks hun, that means a lot. That book sounds interesting, I think I'll check it out.

Yep. My dad’s a teacher who works with emotionally troubled teenagers and a lot of them are pretty emotionally unstable because they were abused/are being abused. He’s been screamed at countless times, punched, kicked, even *bitten* by his students, and he has never once even raised a hand towards them in response because he knows that hitting these kids is the worst possible thing he could do (not to mention, he’s a huge guy-over six feet tall and upwards of 200lb, and he used to play rugby). Kids like that, kids like Christina, don’t need to be hit. They’re the way they are because they were hit. They need counselling.

@@leow3696 I'm a therapist who used to work with kids in child protective services. While I was never physically injured by any of my clients , I have my share of psychic battle scars. Your dad is doing Yeoman's work (the secular equivalent of doing God's work.)

I remember reading a reddit thread about this, and someone said something I'll never forget: "if you didn't grow up in an abusive household, you can't understand the concept of someone angrily folding a sock at you." It sounds absurd at face value, but for those of us who have lived it, we get it, and it is _fucking terrifying._

Amen. Nothing in Mommie Dearest looked unfamiliar to me. That's why I don't doubt Christina's story.

@@WobblesandBean That is so accurate. My mother never had the hysterics, just cold, malevolent anger and something like angrily folding a sock is wince inducing.

I thought HE was implying that her over-the-top acting suggested things weren't really all THAT bad. I missed the part where apparently the movie was being marketed as a quasi-comedy ... WTF ...

The abuse is real. I know, as my biological grandfather beat the crud out of me for wetting the bed. His wife would then read the book of Proverbs over me, telling me that I was evil and wicked and deserved it. it's taken me decades to get over this. It caused my aversion to religion and anything having to do with God. I no one to turn to as Mom was always either in nursing school or stoned; my hyper religious father refused to condemn him because someone who loved Jesus couldn't be all bad. I don't find this movie funny one bit. In fact I find it hard to watch, because I know what its like; just add the religious component to it.

Brian Sparrow To be fair, Joan was born poor, so it’s obvious that she wanted Christina to not suffer the ill effects of poverty she dealt with.

@@beethovensfidelio More likely, she did not want anyone to know she had been poor, and didn't want to be associated with poverty, either directly or indirectly. My mother only let us wear clothes that actually fit when we were going to be on "display".

I agree - It's so freaking uncomfortable when you watch the scene in its entirety

Hewy Toonmore It is uncomfortable to watch I agree with you.

He mentioned that his laughter was in sarcasm because even he was wondering why so many critics referred to the scene (among others) as "funny" . . . by accident or otherwise.

I think that many people have ONLY seen the 10 seconds or so where she's screaming about the coat hanger, and I can see why they'd find that part of it funny because of Dunaway's hamminess. But yeah if you watch the ENTIRE scene in full, it's freaking disturbing and messed up.

I’m sure Christina Crawford shit her pants when her adopted mother acted that way, too.

4 Wheels & 1 Hat this makes so much sense! Watched this movie so many times as a child.

😮😮😮 i thought it was about creases in clothes but this theory is better.

Crawford's hatred of wire hangers stemmed from her parents forcing her to twist them into shape as a kid. they owned a dry cleaner's and if you ordered bundles of hangers in the 1900's they didn't come pre-formed.

Interesting notion, though Christina had her own guess as to Joan's drunken tirade in the book and subsequent interviews.

Maybe, but the incident is lifted directly from the book. And according to Christina, it wasn't the first or only time Crawford got pissed about the presence of wire hangers. She apparently just really, really, really fucking hated wire hangers.

Yeah just because something was normal at a certain time period doesn’t mean it was a good practice.

@@grizzly_manbanimation8436 Yeah. People would probably try to defend it today by saying that it was thought to be okay back then. To that I say: slavery was thought to be okay once. Witch burning was thought to be okay once. Locking Jews in ghettos was thought to be okay once. The fact that people thought the horrible things they did were okay does not make those things any less horrible.

@@1987MartinT exactly.

I would say both. Because there is no good or smart reason to defend slavery

I didn't remember her saying the performance was understated, but I do remember her saying that Joan's proclivities were way more strange than anything in this movie. Or in any movie, from the sound of it. She said that her mother would get chased through the house naked into the wee hours of the night.

OH HELL YES

I read your comment in the Kool Aid man’s voice

My own mom can and does blow up at the slightest provocation. And I do mean slightest. There were times when I was a teenager where we’d be talking and I’d accidentally say something with the wrong inflection in my voice and she would fly off the handle.

My mom has done every one of these things besides the attempted murder

I agree, my dad didn't do any drugs or alcohol when we were being raised but his behavior is a cut out of this movie. Maybe if you said something the wrong way... or ESPECIALLY if you answered back. If I ever heard one of my sisters answer back to him I would leave the room because I knew what was coming next. Dad was just as terrifying if not more terrifying than this "caricature" as this reviewer says. It's one of the reasons why I never want to have kids, I'm just afraid I may inflict some trauma or damage on my child that would take years of recovery, because I haven't recovered. I never felt safe in my house with him walking around. I would hate hearing his footsteps near my room. Every time he traveled away I was at my happiest and I felt like I was on vacation. I hate talking about this... all I wanted to say is what you see in this film HAPPENS and if not worse to anyone around the world. You may think "oh she's overacting" "Oh this is soooo over the top" yes but...it's true. I once pulled a Christina to my dad "I'm not one of your fans" scene when I was 16. I failed my english and math during midterm and I could've still pulled through. However his method... we were sitting on the couch and he (he's a very strong guy, big, intimidating) was basically calm then I saw the rage kick in, and it comes from out of the blue too- he starts punching the couch very near me, "DO YOU WANT ME TO BEAT YOU!? DO YOU WANT ME TO BEAT YOU!?" so then I clicked and I stopped crying and I said "then do it". Big mistake. He picked me up, gave me the biggest slap across my face my ear was ringing, and then gave me a really big punch right in my chest where I flew back to the ground. He felt really bad about that and wanted to apologize but he justified his actions by saying I started it. The abuse didn't stop but I somehow managed to steer clear and get less of it so it never got physical again. At 19 I moved out and and settled into a different country, very far from him. I miss my other family members. In the 9 years I've been away I only went back once for 2 months.

But but but...bad movies don't win Oscars...oh wait WORST HEROES EVER

Too bad it had the misfortune of being released in the same year as "An American Werewolf In London." :P

Christmas Hake : Absolutely. There is no way to compete with that. Its an utter masterpiece.

Why? Faye didn't look like Joan at all, precisely, they made the worst Joan caricature ever

@@AutumnButterfly it's not!!!! Faye looks ridiculous and not even close to Joan!!!!

Also, metal wire hangers could rust, rubbing rust stains off onto clothes right about where everyone would not fail to notice them, and rust stains... aren't indelible, but require special stain treatment to say the least, if they are to have any hope of being washed out.

I always thought it was a reference to abortion.

Leileya Night How did the wire hanger even get there in the first place? If they had a maid, then Joan should've got at her instead of poor little Tina.

I always wondered why the little girl got blamed for the wire hanger. Blame the maid, or something, but how would the little girl attain a wire hanger anyway? Why would she want to?

@@jenneacoleman-cubero2365 Yes! That was so annoying.

That knighthood opens a lot of doors!

Phillip Terry was a very good actor. See him in The Lost Weekend as Ray Milland's brother.

True. Btw, what's a Joe Jackson Argument?

Fermin Tenave Even before his death, people suddenly saw Joseph as this strict but good daddy who kept his kids off the streets and make Michael the iconic star he is today. That Michael, himself, "exaggerated" the abuse thanks to his sensitivity. YET, what they keep forgetting it that Joe would do extremely messed up things. Even for the time period.

Okay, I don't know much about the Jackson 5.

Fermin Tenava A lot of people don't.

so much for "good old days"

That's the thing about abusers, ESPECIALLY alcoholics: nothing is ever their fault.

@@WobblesandBean... Exactly!!

A lot of people live a sheltered life. They don't know until that one guy or that one girl they know opens up. They can never empathize because they never experienced it or sympathize because they don't understand it. For the people who are abused, many of them do not acknowledge that they were. It seems like only society can judge if it is abuse. We are taught to look for other people who are abused, but how about ourselves? When do you know you are being abused by your parents, a spouse, a coworker, a friend? "Can my situation be called abuse?" they think to themselves, and many times they refuse to believe it is. We find other words. This person is toxic, lets move away from this person. And after gaining capital and such, they move as far away as possible and try to forget the past. And its never the parents fault. If something goes wrong, its never their fault, its someone else's. This is just a form of scapegoating and not owning up to your mistakes. And the way they act when they are angry...its just like a spoiled brat at a supermarket complaining about not getting candy. They yell, they scream, they throw a tamper tantrum. Except way worse, because there is no way a child can check their mother by slapping her across the face and screaming "ARE YOU A WOMAN OR A CHILD? IF YOU ARE WOMAN, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR NOT GETTING RID OF THE COAT HANGER AND CLEAN UP THE MESS YOU MADE! IF YOU ARE CHILD, YOU ARE GROUNDED! CLEAN UP THIS MESS AND GO TO YOUR ROOM! FATHER WILL BE SPEAKING WITH YOU ABOUT YOUR BEHAVIOR!"

THANK YOU!!!! I've been saying/ wondering that for years!

According to the book, Christina said that the dress in question had come back from either the laundry or the dry cleaner on a wire hanger, and Christina hadn't changed to a padded hanger as soon as the garment was returned to the closet.

Okoboji It's enjoyable because it's so campy and over the top. (But at the same time, it IS pretty unpleasant to watch--I agree with that).

Because they're sadists? 🤷🏿‍♀️

It’s just plain uncomfortable. Dunaway’s weirdly sing-song read on ‘NOOOOOOOOO WIIIIIIRRE HANGERS EVERRRRRRRR!!!!’ is worth an awkward smile but it’s mitigated by the sight of a small child crying and cowering in terror of her own mother.

@@leow3696 To both of you, it is only "over the top" to outsiders. To those of us who suffered as Christina did, it's real. I wish the wire hangers scene had been overacted. Violent histrionics is normal in narcisstic mothers.

That's the great thing about ol' Smeggie, when he commits to a joke, he fucking _commits._

I agree, for the most part she was excellently cast. Though I do still agree with the comments saying that the director could have pulled her back in some scenes, and modulated her performance throughout the movie. But overall she had the look, voice, and mannerisms down perfectly

Eh, Superman IV's a guilty pleasure for me. Yes, it's pretty campy and cheesy, but it's also entertaining!

Child abuse trumps them all

Could it be she was thinking, "Forget about a comeback, I'll just take what I can get."

@@nylrob Also "What the hell, I gotta pay some bills."

She could beat Gokus ass with a wire hanger though!

the fatimagic They have something to gain in books sales, fame etc.

@@WhaleManMan No they do not. Many people just want to tell their story as a way to cope. Very few will go the mile to publicize their abuse and even then, they don't do for money, its again telling your story. It's like making a movie about your murder, because that is what abuse does to you. It murders a part of what you could have been and reduce you to nothing at the end. There are also some who fear turning into an abuser in the future because abuse is not something that leaves easily.

@@WhaleManMan I am genuinely glad that you are ignorant enough to make such a comment. Because knowing otherwise would mean that you suffered at the hands of one these monsters yourself, and that is something no child should have to go through. Personally, it would be too traumatizing for me to re-live all that shit enough to write a book about it, much less actually make it through an interview without having panic attacks. One does not invent scenes such as the wire hangers; that sort of crazymaking is beyond the imagine of normal people. For me, it was Tuesday. And Thursday or Friday could very well have been FAR WORSE. If you believe in a god, then just say "thank you" to them every day and count yourself fortunate. We victims never deserve the abuse these monsters inflict...which is kind of the point of it in the first place.

@Domino She likely was and histrionic. My mom is histrionic and an alcoholic and she gets the same way . Trust me,it`s not as funny when you`re going through it as when you`re watching a movie about it.

I have bipolar disorder and hacking up rosebushes in the middle of the night definitely sounds like something I would do while manic, albeit a lot less spastically.

Watching this film, I KNOW she is

@@zombieedrea *hopes and prays zombiedrea doesn't have rosebushes*

Likely several things going on here, many of which can come under the umbrella of BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER.

I agree about Mommie Dearest not being the Worst Picture of the year, but my money goes to Endless Love on that one. At least Tarzan wasn't based on anything so highly regarded at the time

“I should have known you’d know where to find the boys *AND* the booze!” 🍸 🥃

Same here. Richard Harris in Tarzan the Ape Man makes Faye Dunaway look like Neil Breen (and he's pretty much the only saving grace of this movie).

Tarzan the Ape Man is so much shorter when you take out all the slow motion editing. It drags like a tortoise walking through wet cement while covered in molasses. And the dialogue is Much more cringe worthy e.i. Richard talking about his cannon or Bo calling him a bastard in every other scene.

It probably wouldn't even clock in at 90 minutes.

Part of me wants to think that Tom Green is some kind of a genius for trying to make a movie so uniquely awful that nothing like it has existed before or since in cinema.

On Tom Green’s earth, you mean.

Jake Voronkov yeah but was it worth it? Some things shouldn’t happen

Daddy would u like some sausage? Would make anyone go insane

Neal McBeal The Navy Seal #ICalledDibs : That’s the only moment in anything Tom Green has ever done that made me laugh. He is as comedically inept as Dane Cook, and dammit, that’s saying something.

Its a better time for him though

No more wire hangers. Now, BRING ME THE AXE

How is he gonna review this one? Pirate it or Stills

Rollercoaster Rider what is it?

If you go by the games, yeah she was a cunt. If you go by the anime, the worst you could say is that she was clingy and neglectful at the same time.

Red Blade Renegade I’m going by the games, I stopped watching the anime when I realized Ash was going in developmental circles.

Oh okay. Yeah, Lusamine was such a cunt that I almost wanted to keep playing just to kick her ass. Unfortunately, I got bored with the story when it felt like my character was just a third wheel to the story.

Red Blade Renegade Yeah, I feel Sun/Moon would be a much more interesting game if we played as Lillie.

Either Gladion or Lillie would've been better.

EHH246 That should be fun.

Oriental Studios Here’s the whole movie, he’ll probably review from that kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e9egprObsbreh6M.html

Always exciting to see movies made by cults.

I think there was a more ideal candidate at the time: Bob Fosse. He already made Lenny and was two years away from Star 80, both solid biopics that actually cover their subjects well

You've been around such personalities before? Read the comments.... she didn't over act. She nailed it. I wish I couldn't say that.

I am so, so sorry. You didn't deserve any of that, and it wasn't your fault. I sincerely hope your father has apologized and made things up to you.

Wobbles and Bean The night he dumped her ass.

@@MoteofLobross are you ok now

But, who should play Faye Dunaway?

@@jbvader721 Rosamund pike looks a lot like her

1997residente She'd have to dye her hair.

Ed Wood took a ton of liberties with history.

There’s a memoir written by the women who played Carolann, and it is juicy. I’d love to see it as a miniseries.

But like you said, the movie suffers from numerous problems that made Oscar talk delusional, including, the movie's source material was a controversial book that was meant to highlight the horrors of child abuse, the acting ranged from subdued to crazy, and the lead didn't know when enough was enough.

My sisters and I were very aware that if told anyone about the abuse we suffered under our mother, NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE US. And so we didn't. Not even our father knew how bad it was.

No, I agree--but the wire hanger scene is a VERY close second.

Dang, how could you turn down a plate of spaghetti? I friggin' LOVE that stuff!

@ I was a little kid and it looked like worms to me. It was irrational, but I didn't know that. I still don't eat spaghetti.

Sabrina Loizides-Merideth Well, you're missing out! But to each their own.

Brad’s a dickhole anyway, so...

TheHeroOfTomorrow How so?

Brad Who?

Daniel Terrazas The Cinema Snob

@@endlessnoise9173 Ahh, I've never actually checked out his videos. I'll need to check them out.

You know you screwed up when even Christina Crawford who wrote a book about how horrible and abusive her mother was to her says that the film is TOO HARSH on Joan!

But..................reading Christina's book, it seemed the abuse she mentions in it was just as bad as the abuse portrayed in the film (even if the wire hangers scene apparently never actually happened).

Oh boy! It's not until recently that I read about people that were present when Joan inflicted her harsh treatments on her first two children.