Now that we've seen collabs like Jam Republic with Hybe artists, is there another combo that you would love to see?

There’s another aspect which SNSD Hyoyeon mentioned on her appearance in Gabee’s KZfaq talk show. She said back when she was younger she had stronger leg muscles to execute dance moves, but because people criticised her appearance she worked hard to get rid of these muscles (dieting). Now it’s so hard for her to do the same moves cuz she doesn’t have the muscles for it. Of course there are naturally slim yet strong dancers like Lisa, but if you’ve been told to diet because your natural body is not fit to kpop standards I doubt you will have the same energy and power to execute moves…😢

In my mind, it was pretty clear what was the differencies between idols and dancers but you highligthed these differencies really well ! As always, I learn a lot on this channel, thank you very much ! ❤

I feel like a lot of people don’t realise that idol dancing is a completely different genre of dancing and this video is so helpful and informative! The top example that comes to mind for me is always when Lee Chaeyeon competed on that show, Street Woman Fighter. There was a scene where she and a hip hop dancer did the same choreography and there were some really clear differences between the two’s styles.

Really goes to show how much goes into K-pop releases. Music production, choreography, concept, visuals, filming, and then performing. It all requires so much time and thought.

yes! this reminds me of when ian eastwood was on steezy and him and clay were talking about how idols learn a lot of choreography so they can execute it (ofc prioritising cleanness, synchronicity, fast pick up) but they don't have the same access to proper technique in their training e.g. clay was saying most pops aren't pops in kpop but just chest drops because they don't get taught the proper technique but also a lot of the time the choreographer isn't the one teaching them the choreography (jinwoo + steezy) and able to show them the details. plus not ignoring time constraints preparing for comebacks and adaptations for live singing. though i guess the smoke challenge revealed that for a lot of people the difference between pro dancers and idol dancers. unrelated side note: but i've been thinking about warm up/stretching cool down/alignment/ technique in relation to injury prevention. common injuries in kpop idols i think that would be an interesting topic

omg i used to love boy groups but noticed the trend of being really powerful, sharp but STIFF. the sharp movements just don't have groove! groove is my favourite part of dance! its why i absolutely love groups like newjeans, billlie, xg cos they add GROOVE to their more hip-hop songs my favourite song for this type of stuff is crush + jhope's collab it was just so good and carefree

Idols almost add an "effortless" essence to their performance while professional dancers tend to dance more full out to accentuate the fullness of the moves 😄

That's why I simply adore Sung Hanbin's dancing so much. He's an incredibly versatile dancer who is capable of showcasing the elegance of idol choreographies while backing it up with grounded skills that he's earned through over 10 years of dancing.

I feel like Seventeen is one example that easily shows that idols sometimes purposely change the way they execute dance moves, because when they do other videos and dances they go all out and when they do their choreo they execution is more controlled!!!

When I watched swf 1 first time I was mad at how Chaeyeon was treated but after I saw her freestyle I kinda understood where they came from she was doing well in her survival show freestyle.. Like there's even a huge difference between choreographers and battlers leave alone idol dancers

okay but why do i feel like the teams and dancers on swf this year are much stronger this year than the first year? even the dance battles felt like they were much more serious displays of technique and styler and were of higher quality than season 1

Great video! I personally love the idol style of dancing, but I also love seeing the professional dancers versions as well. I think a comparison that really highlights the difference is watching both key's and kasper's version of the Killer choreo.

I think a good example to see the difference between idol dancers and professional dancers is comparing Aespa's Girls drafts (especially Rie Hata's one) with the final version. The difference in both technique and style is highlighted when they're put side by side imo

Here's how I think of it: if being a pro dancer is a sport event then being an idol is like competing in a triathlon. The people who complete in triathlons have to be at least decent at swimming, running, and cycling, kind of like Idols having to be able to sing, dance, act, etc. For a triathlete, the individual sometimes are better at particular events than the other, so for example, an triathlete may be incredibly good at running and may often place first in that portion of the triathlon, but put them against an actual marathon runners, they struggle to place. So an idol who is main dancer and is great compared to other idols may not be on top when compared to professional dancers. That's not to say idols are bad dancers, it just come down to training and their focus. Professional dancers dance for a living so their training and energy is focused completely on the dance, while idols have to also think about the singing, variety, act, modeling, etc.

Your videos are so interesting, especially since I am not a dancer, and I think you explain very well!

Bada lee and san’s dancing to smoke was so satisfying to me the dance style suits them so much

One idol who I knew who switched from being a professional dancer to idol dancer is lee know. He still has his techniques intact like how he is relaxed, core strength and balance. I'm not even surprised cuz he is with bada lee, vata, redy shin before all in the same crew with just jerk young jae as their mentor before. I'm just amazed that lee know is still one of those idols who are originally professional dancers

I think this just goes to show that as a form of art there are different interpretations to dance. I find it puzzling that people in the kpop sphere always want to judge some styles to be worse when it is really just a question of preference. So when groups dance in a fashion that is farther away from the usual ”open style” it does not mean they are worse at dancing. It just shows that there is a certain preference about what kind of choreo would fit a specific song, concept or group.

It’s kinda of funny how similar bada and Kai are dance wise even though they just started dancing together in the last 2 years

I think having XG's "move #1 or #3" would have been a good reference because these girls work like a "dance crew" it's just that, as you already mentioned, they have to lower the intensity of the dance to include the singing,

but something that irks me is that the reason idols turns down the intensity of the dance is so that they could sing, but everyone uses a backtrack now and just lipsyncs so what's the point of turning it down. tho i do understand that they still have to fit the running image of an idol in every performance, even when compromising some of the quality, it's not easy being an idol.

Lovely video (and yay my vata/Kai suggestion made it in!) I think I especially appreciated the ITZY/XG call out because you get to really see how the execution aesthetics differ between fairly high level dancing in idols vs pro dancers. I think when I am viewing kpop dancing from the mode of a holistic performance (live performances, MVs etc) the kpop style makes perfect sense to me (and frankly dancing like the pro dancers would not). But I do take a step back during dance practices to think about what I feel about the executions just in themselves as dance. And I generally prefer the pro aesthetics, not really so much for the obvious ‘they’re better dancers’ reason. But more because of the whole more restrained space use and expressiveness sort of thing. I guess I just always enjoy the feeling of a dancer being able to let loose and enjoy their movement - which is not typically a kpop priority (again not wrong, just my preference). But I completely agree with you on the 2 particular choices you had for preferring the idol execution of the choreo (I think I might have a few more that come to mind as well)

the thing ive noticed in the smoke challenge is a lot of the idols are literally dancing at 200% and super tense. most of the challenges for me at least were very off putting.

The biggest difference is that, Dancers are just dancers and that’s all they exceed at, K-pop stars are pop stars that also sing dance,model, do variety shows, act, tours, singing while live,recording music,doing cameos,diets etc…. They aren’t dancers maybe only the main dancer of the K-pop MUSIC group

A lot of changes is on the idol, but most are on the choreographer. A lot of choreographers change the style the idol dances it to come as as more clean and refined. They also often lower the energy to be more conducive for performance and singing

And bitter kpop stand saying... dance pratice now are useless because they look stage while it literally better quality to see the dance movement in details

Idols who can dance well in the commercial scene. those who were professional dancers before becoming idols 😅 jhope, shotaro, harry june, dino, ni-ki

I loved that you used XG as an example. While I would love to watch Sienna and crew do more of the choreography, "New Dance" is one of the very few idol girl group dance performances that I could watch on repeat! XG's version uses the subtle refined girl group style, but they also have excellent flow (and dare I say even a bit of groove).

Late but I love your videos so much, your examples/explanations are so clear AND I appreciate how you always make the point that there are reasons why idol dancing is what it is - actually the tension and balance between the sometimes competing aspects of a great performance (dynamic choreo, stable vocals, well-expressed concept, and so on) is one of the things I find the most interesting about kpop!

Ooh Can you talk about Taemin's advice era where people were complaining about the un-snyc backup dancers

Honestly, as someone who has been watching dancers/choreographers like Kyle Hanagami, Haley Fitzgerald, Bailey Sok, Sean Lew etc., I was never a big fan of "IDOL DANCE". They are okay, but it just doesn't give me that satisfaction. But then I discovered TEN and it sparked my interest to look around for impressive kpop idol dancers. That guy needs to be seriously promoted while he is still fit to dance hard! His technique, artistry, style and versatility in different genres are just 🤯🤯🤯 There are still many idols who are also really great dancers such as B.I, Taeyang, J-hope, Mark, who don't feel generic and have their own colors but TEN is a just another level. I hope many kpop fans get to see his body of work with fresh and unbiased eyes.

i always love your videos, they are always so fun and informative

i would LOVE to see more videos about SWF from you❤

You should see the difference in girls by aespa ( bada, redlic, bengal, one more whose name I don’t remember) and the final version

I really enjoyed watching Park Jisung from NCT dancing. He has been doing popping since a very young age. His musicality is really beyond average that he can catch all kinds of beats.

I always enjoy your videos since you break things down in ways that are clear and easy to understand even for those of us who don’t dance, so thank you ^-^

I'm gonna talk about ones I watch and enjoy mostly Are NCT dancers idk about their battles and freestyle abilities to be honest but in general iltheir body control and flexibility are amazing.. Ten is for me a very one of a kind beside others like shotaro and taeyong... Kai also is a great Dancer but I still believe even great idols are a bit behind dancers as they're trained to perform a song as a whole not just a dance so they split their focus in different areas

I think with Kai and Vata, it's more of a stylistic choice. They both execute the choreo however they felt like based on how they hear the music. They're feeling the song. For me, no matter who I look at, I always prefer Kai. His timing, execution, and interpretation always matches the music the best. It's how he dances plus the song. I noticed for other dancers, they might be really good but they're execution doesn't always the match song they're dancing to. Always knowing how to dance that matches song is pure talent and not something that can be taught. I feel like D.O has that same talent but isn't as polished and advanced.

Always love how you illustrate your examples, the differences are so clear! I became more interested in dancing in kpop because of a former professional (Stray Kids' Lee Know, whose background is absolutely nuts. I really hope he gets to reunite with Bada to do some challenges next comeback but God knows Div1 were allergic to acknowledging his long relationship with Vata and all we got for Saebbing was behind the scenes footage. Anyway, that's getting off-topic lol.) What makes Lee Know so interesting as a dancer and what might be interesting topics for you to explore more generally are (1) His group's dance style can be at odds with his own. Not always (see "Easy", which you showed in your video on groove!), but frequently enough that people talk about SKZ getting different choreographers. I'd be interested in an exploration of how concepts are portrayed through dance and what happens when idols in the same group have different dance styles! Cohesion and synchronization are so prized in kpop, so I find how that question is approached really interesting. (And think SKZ are an example of a group whose main dancers are all completely different in terms of style.) (2) He purposefully takes a more "background" role. (Though contrary to a lot of the discourse on his facial expressions, he's more than capable of stepping up, as seen during Kingdom.) It might be because he comes from a crew background, but it would be cool to see a video where you explore different idol dancers' backgrounds with dance and how it translates to their performance tendencies! Sorry for the thought dump, you just inspired me!

Thank you for this video, I got it in my recommend and I find it informational!

Very informative, I love your videos.

There are very few idols that are actual dancers so videos like this makes me happy.

to answer the question at the end :) Dino of svt truly amazes me he could def work as a dancer

I love sm this kinda of videos

I want to see Lee Know dance with Bada again

very interesting topic to tackle!

as someone who doesn't really know anything about dance this video is super interesting! I could tell there was some differences in the examples pointed out in the beginning (IVE/BP compared to the others) but wasn't able to place what the difference was exactly but once it was pointed out, it felt very obvious

Can you make a video where you analyse and rank stray kids members dance?

Never knew Kirsten in HYLT wow

Nice video, it's detailed enough that even not-informed audience like me can get the gist. Will you doing more damce analysis videos in the future? I wanted to see more about styles of Lee Know, Ni-ki, Yunho* and etc

Honorable mentions to feeldog and euijin who are both idols and professional dancers but K-pop Stan's didn't care about that. They are the only ones bridging the gap

That's a very interesting subject matter. As a followup, it would be interesting to focus on the techniques used by idols to sing and dance similtaneously, because I think this is one of the main reason for the differences in dance training. I dont know if you're as knowledgable in singing as you are in dancing, but I sure hope you'll touch upon this subject !

Amazing video as always! I love how you make things so easy for all of your viewers to understand and I appreciate your insights and research so much. Can we expect to see an Ateez ranking in the future please?

Idk if you are gonna read this comment or not but I just want to say that I freaking love your videos so much. I am learning so much from you and honestly you and sung hanbin has made me go back into dancing after 10 yrs leaving it. I lack a lot but I want to learn so much and have fun dancing again like I used to. Love you and your content. It's is insightful. It should especially be watched by those particular kpop stans who jump at any opportunity to bully idols and their skills. Through out the careers idols do end up developing their own personal style bc they have to dance so much in their career and different styles as well. It doesn't matter they were a good dancer or a bad one. And it's so interesting to watch these idols growing love for dancing along their original skill like singing or rapping etc. For example, taerae is developing love for dance and I have seen so many senior idols becoming great dancers.

That one video thread of idols doing the smoke challenge was really interesting to see where it didnt work for sone idols at all

I really believe that Momo from Twice could easily be considered a pro dancer based on the points that you made in this video.

this was a very gooe thought! butnI really think the difference between Dancers ans Kpop idols is that, Idols have images to portray - which often makes idols do moves in a lighter way ( movements are not fully done/ extended ) along this, power and technique is really not the idols strength as their focus is more on keeping their image and vocals ( tho they lipsync 😂 ) And most of the time, when idols do good, they tend to regress as more times comes as they tend to be one with their group which makes them do moves not in their full potential also becoming a hobby. The technique and power surely is the main things that are not found in kpop groups.

Great video as always, it was such a relaxing and straight forward watch and to answer your question I think some idols that could work in the commercial scene are Shotaro, Woonbin, Cocona, Jurin, J Hope of the top of my head! Oh and i forgot HARRY JUNE OF course!!

Thank you for another clear and interesting video! I know it must take you considerable time to find the clips and get everything so clearly laid out. Your work is truly appreciated

i think it depends on the music if you need to take up space or not like bada's dance i like how kirsten took up space but for wannabe i think they should have used space especially with moves that make them seem bigger if that makes sense

Love your vids! I was wondering what do you think of kard’s cake choreo? It’s one of my favourite dance practices to watch everrr

hello, can you please do a dance ranking/analysis of the boyz and oneus?

ah I love your content! im happy you're doing such comparative videos focusing only on dance. I hope that you can do a video about how boy groups that are known to be always in sync (seventeen, infinite, as examples). and please please I wanna see an analysis on stray kids hyunjinl his dance style is so epic and I do think he's underrated :(

Can you do male 4th gen dance ranking?

Can you talk more about the groups that debuted this year, boynextdoor, riize, zb1 and others that I don't remember the name of. And by the way, can you check out Riwoo from bnd's dance? Wow, I saw videos of him dancing and he is VERY good I would like to see an analysis of him

Love your videos 🫶🏼 Btw what do u think of JK smoke challenge? I find it quite interesting

Tbh I don't understand people who compare professional dancers to idol dancers. I might sound harsh but there's no comparison, even the best idol dancers can't compare to professionals. There are some idol dancers that have the talent to be on some professional dancers' level (maybe not the top of the top) but the difference is the training and focus. Idols have other things to focus on like singing/rapping, recording or promoting and also a different training (except the ones who specifically trained a lot before becoming a trainee) so you can't expect them to be on Kristen Dodgen's level (just an example). But I don't mean one can't prefer an idol/idol group execution, that's preference based on style and personal taste. 2 questions: 1) what's the dancer you like the most amongst the ones participating in SWF2? Mine's gotta be Audrey, even before the show. 2) there are idols that had professional experiences before debut, as you said in this video. One of them is Lee Know of Stray Kids. What do you think about him and the fact that stays say he's a professional dancer who became an idol? I'm a HUGE stay (my fave group) and I love Lee Know in general and as a dancer, and yeah he had that experience and it shows but... I see stays saying in his crew there were dancers like Bada Lee and Vata (which is true) and they automatically put him on their same level because of that... but as much as I love him I think it's too much. Edit: maybe I was too harsh

Can you do a Vcha dance ranking?, please uwu

This was pretty helpful for people like me who aren't dancers but can see a huge difference otherwise

Now that you pointed out, Veta does have a better hips movement than Kai. Kai dance kind of looks stiff.

Do you think transitioning into idol dancing affects the overall growth in skill of an idol that has a previous proffesional background or one that has received a more "legitimate" and conventional dance training? I feel like those idols will experience an inevitable regression in skills ( unless they themselves keep wanting to improve and never stop training ) mainly due to being obligated to shift their focus into other fields such as singing, acting, etc. They also have to take the skill level of their own members into consideration, a dance/performance focused group will usually have a good and competent dance line, but for a more well rounded group where one field isn't the main focus, those idols must feel the need to tone down their abilities in order to achieve better synchronicity with their members. This might become a habit for them and lead to the regression of their abilities. It's not like with singing where the best vocalist of the group can just flex his/her range and go crazy with belting and singing high notes ( K-pop groups are first and foremost, musicians after all ), but in dance, when you're clearly one of the best/THE best in your group, the attention focuses on you and you stick out like a sore thumb. You either get accused of "overdoing/overdancing" or wanting all the attention for yourself.

What did u think of taehyungs smoke challenge? I enjoyed his the most and I think that style of dance suits him best

can u do a straykids dance ranking

6:45 Ten, Taeyong, Eunhyk came first to my mind

momo, momo could absolutely be a dancer if she wanted to. Simply by looking at her covers you can see she has such a diverse range of dancing capacities

I prefer the term "back dancers" compared to "backup dancers" because the dancers are not backup, they're a part of the choreo

Did Kristen choreograph HYLT? I thought she never participated in any of it?

While wacthing this I was wondering when would Babymonster be mentioned and then Boom !!

i have never been more frustrated by ive's group name till now cuz i keep hearing/understanding this as "i have" ---- yada yada. but great analysis anyways

can u do a dance analysis on mina n explain y shes average

Now that I saw this, i think IVE really downgraded the original choreo:(

Seventeen perf unit could defo be professional dancers!

thank you so well explained! for your question, i think of hyunjin of stray kids could be a great dancer with crazy facial movement

Lisa is just perfect

The idols whose dancing styles/techniques that stand out to me are: Taemin, Kai, Chaeryeong, Yeji, Jimin, J-Hope, Jungkook. I don’t know why but I think that they dance differently than their other group members.

Nah this made me realize how bad idol dancing is I can't unsee it

lets be honest, idols give mostly one dancing emoution - to be hot. mostly sell sexy/cool emotions for kids. you cant be really good dancer with one emotion. also they can dance only kpop style at good level. idols got way to much to work to be 10/10 dancers. buy still most of it looks fun, nice and enjoyable. dancers (even korean who dance same kpop moves) will be ahead. and we dont know how would a real pro from countrys like USA, Russia, France bang same moves. its like a day and night.

I can see difference between idol and choreographer but with Kai it’s different he is on the same level as the choreographer.

The idols whose dancing is closest to actual dancers are Seulgi, Chungha, Chaeryeong and all of SEVENTEEN

Why making obvios comparissons???? Just for hate.

There’s no difference imo. The kpop people get paid to dance don’t they, and they train too? =Professional dancers They may not be choreographers or freestylers tho, but they make a living dancing & they train for it If the groups were told to have something different, they’d train for it, but they’re told to keep it certain ways and that’s just style, still does not take away professionalism Dancer-one who dances Professional-one who gets paid to do something, or is trained in a certain area- related to their work (collins) Professional dancer-a dancer who is trained in an area to dance and may earn money

Yeah there’s a difference, most idols can’t dance lol FR FR

Ive looked better than Chika. They looked more feminine and elegant. Their dance matches their personality and song