EXACTLY

Yes. Totally agree. They're just snakes slithering around the corners, staying out of sight.

I just realized I always find your comment in Dr Ramani video! I'll check your channel

Hiding what they do.

To adjust this statement to the research that Dr. Ramani just explained, a vulnerable narcissist would have both overt and covert expressions of that narcissism that can present as either grandiose and/or vulnerable... if I'm understanding correctly.

You should save your empathy for the narcissist, they suffer the most. We should stop labelling others and focus on our similarities not our differences. I feel bad for anyone who can’t see past these differences.

@@beermilkshake I hear you, but it's ok to have empathy for the doc. Also, I agree that it is important to have empathy for the narcissist, but it's important to know that you can't help them if they don't want to help themselves, so you need to be able to spot this fact so that you can walk away from them and rid yourself of the unnecessary drama. Ramani helps people to understand this so that people accept this and stop trying to help people that clearly don't want it.

@@Leoo117 Thanks Leo, I agree with you, however I do want to draw attention that there are many narcissists that do want to change and they feel very marginalised by the slew of experts that are against them. Just read the comments in this video, people are seething with resentment. The content that Ramini puts out there educates and validates the victims but doesn’t do much in creating wisdom and compassion for for this troubled condition from the Narcissists perspective. I think the truth is that both people in these kind of relationships are victims. Just once I’d like to see a person like Ramini attempt to make contact with the other side and actually help the narcissist.

@@beermilkshake I understand. That's a good perspective. There is a woman on KZfaq that not only admits to herself to being a narcissist, but understands her own narcissistic tendencies. She helps people to understand her issues, along with talking about the trials she faces when working on herself. She is very honest about her bad habits, and knows they are not appropriate, but still works to help herself. Many people relate to her. It's basically the type of channel that you are talking about. She is not an enabler, but instead she just shares her own problems, and the reasons for them and how she tries to do better. She is genuine. I can't remember her name, but if I find her channel again, I'll post it here for you. Edit: The woman I was referring to posted a video enabling and promoting cruelty in the workplace. This one video makes her channel not worth watching, because it is awful advice that leads to misery. Sorry, I didn't realize she held such awful beliefs until she posted that video.

@@Leoo117 yes please do! I would like to see that

Get well soon!! Thank you for this Video...I am a lot interested in the vulnerable narcisists,IT IS so difficult to understand this type of people...it took me almost thirty years to understand what was going on in my relation, thanks to your Videos iam more educated now ❤️

I feel you on this. I genuinely didn't understand passive-aggressive behavior until a bunch of deep studying. I always felt like the a-hole after exchanges with a vulnerable/covert narc relative, but could never make sense of how or why that person got upset by my comment. But as you said, they're impossible to reason with - they won't just come out & communicate what they are actually upset by. That's the passive-aggressive game. "You should know what you did already!" The amount of attention & energy they're able to suck out a perceived slight is mind-boggling to me.

@@princesskileyrae well said. It's amazing to me that every single passive aggressive covert narc I've come across wants you to read their mind and know what the problem is. If you do somehow figure what the problem is, they'll deny that's that it AND expect you to go along with the denied problem without question. There's no reasoning or compromise. Either you submit or they back off. It gets so frustrating to the point where you (I) explode and they blame you because you can't take their head games. Now, thanks to Dr. Ramani, as soon as I detect a covert narc, or any narc for that matter, I become the one who discards and walks away.

Exactly. I’m dealing with such boss right now. It’s making me feel crazy, unsecure, despondent.

@@mariannami8049 better get get out as fast as you can. Things won't change with this person as they have power and control.

Hey great, I like your verses, keep up the good work! (i am not a native english speaker either, but i love to express myself in as many languages as possible)

😔

Well-written 💯❤️

@Amber maillet good one

Whoa, that's really good. :)

Howd you find out they were the vulnerable type

@@megalightsfan4948There's a label on the inside of everyone's underwear

@amamdasoares1798. Same here. I couldn't figure out what was wrong & why. He seemed so nice. I'm so thankful to have learned about this now.

Same here. I always felt my relationship was somewhat "off key" but couldn't put my finger on what was wrong. I am more and more convinced I was dealing with a vulnerable narcissist

@@legeneralalexander6618 oh my god COMPLETELY agree… I couldn’t quite put my finger on what the problem was.. but something was so wrong and I was so so drained…. He was shy and had very low self esteem but was somewhat entitled and wanted attention from people who didn’t know him. He wanted to look cool. I never thought he was a narcissist, but he was typical vulnerable narcissist.

10:58 Ramani agrees

Well observed about scientists always trying to categorize in the little boxes they make up. Sometimes it's like they try to digitally input the time in a analogue wind up wristwatch.

Agrees with my field notes

A lot of us who also observe these creatures in the wild do agree.

100% and even us recovering codependents, so called “toxic empaths” can sometimes engage in these ego defense mechanisms if sufficiently triggered and/or if that codependent is lacking in healthy boundaries in order to get their attachment needs met. Tricky stuff indeed. Great content as usually, Dr. Ramani.

Always they are very stealth 🥷 & dangerous always a complainer victim so you try to help and Your caught 👹🤬

@@lovewhitey2027 You end up feeling duty bound and obliged. At least I learned, though, it could have been a relationship rather than a friendship, which would have been harder to experience. I now know more about what to look out for.

Omg. Same! Then I set her up with a guy friend (before I knew) She ran the game on him for years. They’ve broken up (she cut us both off) but his coddling and refusal to hold her accountable has damaged our friendship.

@@mojadah10all of this is the story I’m living right now. It feels so surreal.

Same here - just went through 2 years of confusion and frustration. I am learning that I was trauma bonded to this person who treated me like shit - nice to put a label on them "vulnerable" narcissist - as I didn't think she was to the traits of the common/overt ones?!

This channel, Dr Ramani and the comments are incredibly enlightening , we can’t undo the past but dissecting, Understanding the past is a road to healing. We all need each other🦋

I hear you and know what you mean. This knowledge 40 years ago might have helped my life too.

I have only just realised recently that my alcoholic, abusive Dad was a covert narc. He died when I was 14, now I’m 42. I wish I could tell my empath Mum all about this, all the things I had learnt about narcs and empaths the past few years, but unfortunately, she passed away 13 years ago. He destroyed our lives!

Hm sounds like me until God changed my heart but then I went back to my old ways again. The passive aggressiveness is quite annoying

Gosh I know this very feeling so well. It's the whole problem. Wblame ourselves because they say its us but we also blame ourselves because we don't know what it is and that all along we were the healthier ones

Dr Ramani Pls take care of that cold Have a cup of tea with honey and lemon Hit the sack with a few aspirins Socks 🧦 on your feet Get well greetings from Stockholm 😀 🇸🇪

Yes, neglectful, invalidating and indifferent

I disagree ...I think ur describing just a person who doesn't enjoy socializing... Vulnerable narcissism is a lot more serious problem...u can not have one friend and prefer to be silent and not be a narcissist

And they run the other way when run into!

Yep, my dad has since ghosted me since I started developing an awareness of the true nature of our one-sided relationship. They can sense when their cover is blown and will never accept responsibility for their part or are even open to honest dialogue. They either want the relationship to go back the way it was or to have no relationship.

Agreed

Is it that the Covert feels sorry for themselves?

Yes! Totally agree with this comment

Better late than never. God bless KZfaq.

Mental health issues are exploding in our world today. Television, internet, society, family court laws, feminism, porn.... it's all driving people to avoid bonding as a family. It's causing narcissistic values in both male and females to increase. Hate to see what dating will be like in 20 years. Marriage will cease to exist.

It's the covert that really gets you. The overt you can surmise from the behavior and some how manage to keep it in check. The covert gets your trust and love first and then starts the work of tearing you apart. I have a covert narc in my family. She is of the vulnerable kind... until it turned to child abuse, which she conveniently forgot now that I bring it to her attention. In the wilderness she can go from covert vulnerable to grandiose in a nano second. I take responsibility for my life, the only thing I regret is not putting up boundaries sooner.

Yeah, my boss too…

I can feel for you. I removed covert narcissists in my life and realized all self doubt and confusion are from them. That is crazy.

@@bakpoassylzhan Wow, that's powerful! Thank you for sharing. I'm doing that but that's extra motivation to stay on track

Right i tho this thing the samee

Yes of course there is. The point about pathological narcissists is that they take it too far. Everyone can be selfish sometimes. Everyone can be angry or upset. The narcissist is like that all the time and they have no empathy for others when they hurt them. Their personality is SO narcissistic that they become abusive to those around them. Normal people, even quite narcissistic normal people, aren't like that and will try to change. Narcissists cannot.

If you are emotionally mature enough to see that narcissistic traits can appear in anyone and are able to own your own narcissistic traits, chances are high that you are not a narcissist.

There is a level of narcissism in everyone but the difference is what you do with it. Do you go about loving yourself a little extra or do you use it to manipulate and deceive someone to give harm because you are an unhealed demon!

Narcissism is for survival. Everyone has it! Balance is key. It’s when the maladaptive behaviors come into play

Could you share some of your covert-grandiose narc observations, please?

My daughter in law is grandiose covert. Very difficult to handle.

My girl is this same way, very covert but grandiose as well. Hiding certain things, or jumping back n forth between grandiosity and covertness. It's crazy, I'm about to go no contact again. Wish me luck! 🎉

Well of course they exist. Most of us are really really scarred from these assholes

This right hear, is a great example of how narcissism is basically a gateway mental illness to many more mental illnesses. A point that needs to made more imo. What your describing is the stepping stones to multiple personality disorder.

@Cooper Young, hi. Narcs are master manipulators. It may superficially resemble dissociative personality disorder/multiple identities, but it usually isn't. It's acting, faking, manipulation and the narc is aware of it all. They switch tactics, styles, and personas with ease and it's all under the control of one personality. They're always holding up a false image in order to get what they want (attention, power, influence) so they get really good at reading a room and slipping quickly from one false face to another.

@Wellness Path For Me it's terrible how abusers work. They carefully cultivate a nice public image. They do it to lull their victims into a false sense of security. They also do it to escape blame and public scrutiny, and to continue their abuse behind closed doors. "Oh, no, your parent/sibling/spouse could never hurt you. S/he's such a nice person!" It leaves the people closest to them, their victims, isolated and cut off from outside aid and support.

Dr. Ramani spoke about getting out before you get entangled but that seems impossible when you’re dealing with master manipulators! They have to entangle you in order to feed off of you.

@@richellelee1086 Well, that's just it... you can see the "surface-level personality," and only that personality, going on for at least 5 years. I *know* this, but I'm not gonna say how I know it. The switch didn't flip until the person thought they had the leverage to flip it. If course, narcissism isn't taught to the plebs, perhaps because it is being engineered in us on purpose! Iron overload toxicity, bio-copper deficiency, and magnesium deficiency all basically run together in the vast majority of cases. Those three things together appear to produce a hyper-active sympathetic nervous system and excess iron definitely triggers the NLRP3 "fear sensor" protein in the cells. Fe-ar, get it? Fe -- iron. Hidden in plain site. Here a couple links that I think are key, just note that "copper toxicity" is really a deficiency of bio-copper (hence an excess of the non-bio-copper form), and refers to iron overload, bio-copper deficiency, and magnesium deficiency. If you really want to delve into the depths of the "rabbit hole," there is a Biblical prophecy aspect to all of this, too. Let me know if you want to hear it. Morley Robbins - My Theory Of Everything (Iron Overload) -- kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f9dpZ7WAp5vVdac.html Understanding Copper Toxicity (same as iron overload): kzfaq.info/get/bejne/h9-GZ7eYvamrc2Q.html Iron Homeostasis and the Inflammatory Response -- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3108097/ INORGANIC Metallic Iron Filings in Cereal Video -- kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fq2Sqqml0rCzmWg.html Alert For Parents - Heavy Metals In Gerber's Cereal - Can't Verify, But You Can -- kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p92Prayk3Lq4dWQ.html Note -- NO, this iron is not the same as iron in a bean or spinach. Anyone that says it is needs to pull metallic iron filings out of beans and spinach. They can't. You can also search out the effects of "copper toxicity" and "calcium shell," but those are both basically iron overload, bio-copper deficiency, and magnesium deficiency (they all tend to run together due to the biochemical nature of the body). Narcissists benefit the system in a number of ways. Some are so toxic and entitled that they create a tremendous drain on society (which is leveraged into government front power grabs). Others are very motivated by money because that temporarily fills their vacuum, so they will do ANYTHING for cash, effectively become the minions of those who control the global money systems. They don't ask why. And they drain families... and the Money Power Families view every other family on the planet as a threat to their "most fit" status, so the less powerful every other family is, the better.

That is so true.

Maybe it’s trauma, PTSD ore CPTSD, when you are traumatized you feel sorry for yourself, you feel unpowered, you have victim mentality. The difference I think is that when a person is narcissist even vulnerable narcissist he feels superior. I’m the best but people don’t see it. I’m the smartest, the prettiest, etc. A traumatized person has victim mentality but feels inferior, and is in contact with this feeling.

I was a bully victim too. 6th grade year was the worst for me. Long story short..there are more details about my teenage hood but..too long to explain. Anyway...long story short..one day in 6th grade I snap. I right punch and left hand pimp slap the cowboy kid who physically bully me. I was ready to fight and lose it all. Didn't care. He backed off and tried to be like.."I'm kidding, Give me 5". I gave him 5. Another pimp hand. Right pimp hand slap. After that all the other kids stopped picking on me. The physical and verbal bully stopped. In 7th grade I was a loner. 8th grade year the cowboy kid tried to bully me again and the verbal bully kids tried to do it again but this time I got more..."physical with the cowboy kid". I and other non white kids...aka poor kids we were kind of falling into the "gang category". I sweat him out, punch him, kick him few times, called him out and push him around when he tried to pick on me...there is a ton of details about my life at home, what and others but that doesn't matter in this story. Anyway after a few "contact with the cowboy kid" that send a strong signal to the other kids who tried to verbal bully me. Yes. Some of the "verbal kids" kids tried to verbal bully me and talk smack but a few good.."pushes and sweat" put them in line. Later that year the cowboy kid and I....well I can't say friends..but..we were cool with each other. We talk shit to each other time to time but no harms done. In high school freshman year I manage to shake off the gang category and become a good boy..Kind of. Lol. Anyway...for me..the thought of using the "bully victim child hood" has never crossed my mind. All I know is that the only narc person I have to deal with is my narc ass mom.

@@anitashehu9784 A traumatized person is a victim I don't know why people use the term "victim mentality" in a pejorative way, someone who's actually a victim but is not there displaying warrior/survivor traits. Nobody needs to be a hero or act like one. I think people feel uncomfortable around people who really display the true mentality of a victim so they don't want it and decided to make it a "bad thing". The person feels bad, inferior, afraid, pity for herself (maybe no one else does) and can't go out of that state and instead of support or ignore the person gets blamed my others with resentment "oh you just have victim mentality. Just move on, I think it's time".

@@SCH292 my middle school years were bad for me, i got called f@g get alot, and got beat up like 3 times randomly, and bullied alot and few bad personal things also hallen around that time...... and i didnt turned out to be a narcissist , im 30 now, before i met and knew what a narc was, it was this year, i literally had long term relationships , feel empathy fkr some humans and especially animals... lol i didnt turned out to be narc lol

@@SCH292 oh and like 2 years ago one of the guys that bullied me badly in middle school added me in FB and we chat once in a while like adults, and we havent yet discuss why he and others treated me bad which i really dont care lol but still lol u know what i mean

Same that’s a good idea:)

Oh my good fucking lord. I have been through a relationship with who put me through the exact same thing as you described at first. And I’m having such a difficult time trying to heal because of the damage I put myself through just to make it work. I’ve lost my sense of judgment. All I know now is that I didn’t deserve any of that. And I really do hope that you feel better and that you’re able to pull yourself out of it. Take care of your heart :)

@@nimzm97 I walked away in Jan 2020 and I’m realizing lately that I’m not agonizing over it. For a while I knew in my mind I did the right thing but my heart worried that he was alone and friendless while the world shut down. I just had to keep telling myself that HE TOLD ME I wasn’t important to him, even if maybe it was a lie. (Because he had also told me a year before I was the only person he talked to outside of his therapist!) It really does get better. Keep putting your focus on things you know are real and people who truly appreciate you.

@@bitchenboutique6953 Having a big heart does put you in tough spots but atleast we know we tried. I’m glad you could make the decision to walk away even though it was hard to convince your heart. And sometimes that is the most painful part. I hope for more peace for you and for people who go through similar things like us

I can relate, my current pending divorce is within a 16 year friendship and 3 year marriage to my covert narc. I can relate to the bond you thought you shared. I too, really believed that our friendship through the years meant something. But this person I didn't know, and turns out I shouldn't have tried to know. I was just a task to accomplish, get, keep isolated, abandon friends and family and to die inside lol. kidding about dying inside but I did almost allow him to continue ruining me, or me allowing him in too deeply and he taking that power to isolate our life's across country alone. I chuckled out loud when I read "Never mind that it looked like a duck and walked like a duck and quacked like a duck… if he didn’t call it a duck, I wasn’t allowed to call it a duck." haha this is the truest statement. Everything was only true when he said it was first, then the world could follow.

It is a blow! Even though deep down I knew he didn't care. But them saying you were the one who came, or was there. That's it

That's what my mother does too. It messes with you so bad..! I swing between pity and loathing with her, and often doubt my own actions with her as i question if i am just being "mean" to her when i avoid or ignore her, but if i engage with her i regret it immediately. As Dr Ramani says "You can't win!" It is such an internal struggle tho - the guilt at seeing your mother's vulnerability and not doing anything to help vs the need for self-preservation knowing how it *always* goes. I think i have more work to do on my feelings of guilt & responsibility, and my boundaries. Thanks for sharing that insight - i love Hayao Miyazaki and Gaiman's work too! I find a lot of meaning and symbolism in old fairy tales also. 🙏😊

@@user-vn9sh6hv8r You articulated this really well! Thanks for helping me understand my own experience in clearer terms :-)

Exactly 💯 I've noticed the same. especially the eye blinking and staring off.

This is spot on!! My experience, word for word, except the adoption part. My God, these people are like cookie cut outs, carbon copies of one another. They have the same playbook from China to America. It's really unsettling when you think about it.

You know my X? 😉💔👹 they act on autism scale so you are disarmed to there coldness

Omg this is my husband.

They rarely yawn either. Usually when someone yawns, it's contagious. Not so with Narcs.

Good advice

i’m the same way tho..maybe he just didn’t want to be bothered. some people really prefer their own company, introverted and have a mind of their own that forms judgements inside jokes random imagination daydreams bright ideas etc. we’re all observant and we all judge off what you say judge even if we have the conscious to be like”nah that ain’t right i shouldn’t of said that.” that person just told you what they were thinking and you’re mad bc you didn’t think that or had the slightest clue. irony is you judged that person thinking bc they were mild mannered and meak and quiet that they didn’t have a mind of their own. no one has to wear their heart on their sleeve and it’s no ones responsibility to make others comfortable with their quiet demeanor. shit at least they told you. goes to show you how aloof they were cuz if they were really intellectually manipulating you they wouldn’t have even told you in fear of putting themselves in a bad position. Point is I am that person. I case the joint everywhere I go. And I pick and choose who I want to speak toI don’t go out my way to observe. I have eye balls and I can see. I am very good at reading people but not to manipulate them I actually don’t want to be bothered tbh. Most people don’t appeal to my senses or my energy. I just have no interest in talking with people make or female period. Probably why narcissist pick me out ironically lmao. I like my own company and it’s better to be quiet about the fact that I am not a team player, I know I’m sensitive, I know I am moody as hell.. I’m self aware and I can do bad by my damn self.

so many typos but you get my point

Well they have a real fear of rejection. So if YOU goto them, they know you won't really reject them then. You're approaching them. If they goto YOU and you give them this dirty @ss look like "uh why are you here?" this will make them sustain a narcissist injury badly. And to take one of those while on the clock and NEW at a job.. Isn't good for them. If they have a real disdain for EVERYONE, this could be an actual psychopath. No fuel required hence why they don't need anyone. They fuel themselves. Always goal oriented.

@@daviedood2503 It’s not as black & white as that. This particular colleague hardly interacted with anyone else but in comparison showed lots of interest in me in the beginning .. I guess it was because of my very obvious empathetic approach to people around me. That was how I got to see the private side of him as we had interactions outside of work. But even that, he was still very secretive about his own private life… Although he did very very diligently put up all his sport achievements on his social platforms and interact very actively with his followers.. Gradually I found that the so called friendship was never reciprocal and I was the only one who was always there for him when he was in need but never the other way around. And that he was also always lying by omission. And that he was never empathetic towards people around him. (He would be literally sitting in front of his desk, focusing on his own work while the entire office is helping each other moving furniture around or unpacking boxes).. So I tried many times wanting to distant him, but every time he just kept on saying “I don’t have many friends and I want us to be friends, and I’ll be better.” … But nothing was ever better. It almost felt like you’re running a loop again and again. Nothing ever changed. It was so emotionally draining. Like being with a very needy and immature baby… Until one day he made a mistake at work and got criticised by his supervisor. He told me about it so I stayed behind after work trying to find a way to help him. But when I was only laying down the facts(of him making the mistake), he lost it and called me being unsupportive( his actual words were much harsher than this)… That was when I had my epiphany that I didn’t deserve to be treated like this and I had to stay away from such a person. I didn’t know anything about narcissism back then. But thanks to him now I do. Consider it as a valuable lesson learnt.

It's very to get out in a relationship...tbh..

Know that Jesus loves you. I am sure it must feel very dark but Jesus can bring light even to the darkest places and heal the deepest most painful Wounds so I pray that you find Him and see it for yourself. God bless you

The fact that you're willing to admit and repent is huge. Truly God bless you and I will be praying for you. Yes, God loves you and sent his son for you who was perfect but took on your sin so you could be free from sin. While there are still consequences for harmful actions where we harm self or others. There is then no condemnation to them that are "in" Christ Jesus. That's from Romans. Along with wise therapy that understands healing is out there to be had keep humbly praying and reading scripture asking God to show you the truth and set you free through the power of what Christ did on the cross.

You teach so clearly Dr.Ramani. thank you🥰

Story of my life

Right there with you

Please, what are ADA's?

@@lulumoon6942 Thank you so much because that was a typo and because you voiced in I was able to correct it. Oopse! What I should have written was (Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACA)/Dysfunctional Families)

@@musicman4life gotcha, thanks, as a fellow ACA (thank goodness for the literature on this, big tools in my emotional healing!)

@@lulumoon6942 She's the best! I wish I was able to attend her workshop today. I have a side thing I do as a life passion to educate, support and empower us abuse survivors where I create and curate content. I regularly post Dr. Ramani's videos and make my own inspirational memes. It's fairly new and small but it's a sweet, growing group if you'd like to check it out. Facebook.com/thenarcninja @thenarcninja. God bless and may we all continue to be restored through healing.

Hear that kinda in some ways ye for some reason

Notice how narcissists keep moving the tree's around

@@LSMH528Hz they are constantly felling and re-planting :)

Doctor Ramini is very pretty!! Beautiful inside + out!!

I love it that she is growing out her hair. I find that it's empowering to see a strong intelligent woman being a normal woman and not the let's all look 25 again .. to be valued! Hate how women are seen for looks and not intelligence 😊😊

@@bereal6590 so so true! I love how she's helping me embrace myself inside and outside! Let's shatter the barriers to being our best selves together! 💜🙏🏽

Cognitive dissonance, split perceptions, duality, dilemma, confusion, gaslighting, doubt, lying, mind-games and deception. All tactics of the covert N. to keep the person unstable, confused, second-guessing, discombobulated and disorientated. A pendulum of doubt and conviction is what we swing on as we try to make sense of our experience. Potentially, one day the scales finally tip and conviction is reached, you have come to the conclusion that your entire family is under a toxic spell, you are the lowly scapegoat, and your mother / father is the wicked leader at the head of the cult. There has been an orchestrated campaign of death by a thousand cuts against you, for decades and counting... The way you are noticing being treated by people outside of family is real, but there is cognitive dissonance and a disconnect from natural intuition because you have been gaslight and manipulated so much within the toxic family, this is why total no contact is necessary to heal from the dissonance by never experiencing it again in your life, no where near mentally ill people who are hell bent on manipulating you / destroying you.

What were the clear signs they were a vulnerable narcissist

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/orN2ostm0p3IoX0.html

You can watch Kanika Bakra(?) youtube she has npd and aspd. In her case she says in the beginning she feels really excited about this new person, because she feels emotionally flat almost all the time, so during this hormonal rush she puts the person on this really high pedastal of impossibility. After the feeling of novelty wears out (remember they see people as objects for a use) they start to feel bored and looking for flaws, that could be the most superficial stuff ever like they suddenly notice you have an accent, or a habit that was cute at first now it's odd, you don't like exactly the same things. At this time you are already an old phone model and they start to idealize a new one and desperately want to get rid of you, first they will act like you are trash but if they wanna avoid confrontation they'll stay stuff "you are imagining things. everythings fine" (especially if they haven't granted a new source yet), if you still stick around the abuse will escalate because they want you to leave but you leaving still messes up a bit with their ego, so they'll probably make you leave first play with your mind a bit and then discard you with extra cruelty for you even daring to leave them (even if that's exactly what they wanted) because they always have to win. If they run off of supply, they don't have no on to idealize, and they are feeling low, then they get to hoover. At this time they don't idealize you at all, you already lost all value, but they are so low on supply that they need sth so they lovebomb again with pure manipulation intent, they don't want you back,they just wanna use you temporarily to restore their ego and while they look for other sources of supply. Here's the resume. If you want another example you can check Kev Higs youtube channel. He's a relationship coach but has some good material. He has a video about "users" and he uses a car analogy and then even illustrates with one more example about the program survivor and mangoes. (I can't remember the name). If this is a narcissist issue then majority of people I came across are narcissists, they all fall into the category of "users" and "selfish". Being this such a common human behavior, I don't think it should even classify as mental disorder because that's the norm. Objects have become disposable so did people, let's just call it evolution. kids will break their old playstation on purpose so they can get the new one...there's a new phone model coming out less than every year, with basically not much difference from the previous one (one more camera, more memory) but people run like crazy dogs to pay a fortune an expose on social media that they have the NEW MODEL, the other gets forgotten inside a drawer or broken for a funny tiktok video. I'm not a psychologist or did any research...I just observe.

@@Sarablueunicorn Thank you very much for your contribution. I am observing exactly the same thing. (It seems that people abandon human qualities such as compassion or kindness as soon as the external incentives (nowadays especially financial validation) are removed. In the past, the incentives came from institutions, such as the religious or secular ones. I always have to think of the French Revolution in this context, that the conditions that prevailed then still prevail today, with no prospect of restoration: the decay and rottenness of the all-devouring monarchy that no one needed anymore, and on the other hand, the blind murderousness of the revolutionaries. It seems that what is needed now is a kind of philosophy that creates the inner incentives for a peaceful, sustainable and appreciative coexistence of all people living in this world). In dealing with narcissists, probably only one thing helps: consistent turning away.

💯Exactly!

Oh yes... same here. Vuln narcs will throw you under the bus if their shame is activated