CRC Synod 2024: Balancing Local and Synodical Authority to Ride Through This Confessional Crisis

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22 күн бұрын

‪@crcna‬ Monday Afternoon - June 17 - Synod 2024 kzfaq.infoc73UgAf4...
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Пікірлер: 126

@chrishoward8473 19 күн бұрын

The fun of the CRC videos is that you so obviously love the people, the history, the challenges.

@lancecleaver227 19 күн бұрын

I would like for it to be officially be known I never post it the CRC chats. 😂 Jacob however got banned yesterday. I told him today I would have banned him too. 😎

@Freerilian 19 күн бұрын

I second this.

@PaulVanderKlay 19 күн бұрын

Why am I not surprised Jacob got banned... :)

@sandybassie1220 19 күн бұрын

I have to like this just because 😂

@Pseudo_Boethius 18 күн бұрын

It's because of Jacob's behavior that we can't have nice things.

@j.g.4942 17 күн бұрын

@@Pseudo_BoethiusIt's because of his words the chaff is cut

@Freerilian 19 күн бұрын

If there is a split between those who wish to invite ducks to the table and those who have a humans only rule communion, a group will emerge which seeks for both opinions to be welcome under the one umbrella of the CRC: “Better ToFeather.”

@lancecleaver227 19 күн бұрын

You dad joke game has been on elite level lately … it’s a tell you have young kids in your house. Optimal training to keep your game sharp.

@matthewkilbride1669 19 күн бұрын

I’m getting too deep into the CRC. I was quite sympathetic to “Rita’s Cry”, but then KZfaq suggested the Independent CRC Canada (that’s not the name) talk and I watched it and recognized her, and she was so flippantly and stereotypically anti-American that I lost most of my sympathy. Starting to recognize characters in the story is an odd thing.

@Pseudo_Boethius 18 күн бұрын

Bingo. With people like Rita, emotional manipulation is a tactic, not something sincerely felt.

@JamesRHenry523 19 күн бұрын

Thanks for yesterday’s video’s orientation and historical clarity of the CRC’s demographic narrative of assimilation through the seeker movement ecclesiology and ‘Resonate’s formation from Navajo Home Missions and Nigerian World Missions. It was inspiring today to see the pole and plastic churches of South Sudan!

@Phlebas9202 19 күн бұрын

Highlights today for me was the greetings from the three African churches. Really inspiring stuff and absolute class. Pray for Sudan. A hard contrast to the preachy RCA representative who mentioned sharing office with CRC staff since the denominational building was sold? Well that's worrying. She also couldn't control her face while delegates were discussing ecumenical relations.

@Freerilian 19 күн бұрын

Need more Phlebus thoughts. The very consistent messaging from literally almost delegate or guest who isn’t white is an elephant in the room for me which the progressives seem to refuse to even see.

@PaulVanderKlay 19 күн бұрын

I spent 2 hours in the bank today. Really frustrated me. Then had cluster meeting. I missed a lot. It's hard to keep up.

@chrishoward8473 19 күн бұрын

So... Are they actually addressing issues which are bound to come up related to SSM, like whether non-sexual marriage will be somehow reclassified, or all SSM encouraged to break up or ?? Maybe that stuff is in the HSR?

@chrishoward8473 19 күн бұрын

@@PaulVanderKlayI chuckled thinking of you entering multilayered digressions in your stick-em-up note

@tylerhelfers7693 19 күн бұрын

I knew Laura from my time in campus ministry in the US. I appreciate her work with international students in Michigan. However, last night, I told my wife that in light of our experience ministering here in South Africa, and hearing the testimonies of the African delegates to Synod, I found that her comments rang hollow. And knowing the decisions already made and the questions being asked of the RCA, I felt she missed an opportunity to truly speak to the delegates of synod. Instead, it felt like a canned speech that spoke to the establishment who--for better or worse, depending on who you are--isn't the reality of who the CRC is now.

@faturechi 19 күн бұрын

1) I had nothing to do with the livestream chat being shut down. They banned me from the channel on Monday. 2) Women who cry at Synod should be immediately ejected from the CRC.

@teestrypzSOG 19 күн бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂

@hankkruse4660 19 күн бұрын

Number 2 is ontological truth

@JohnnyMUTube 19 күн бұрын

How then shall they virtue signal?

@Pseudo_Boethius 18 күн бұрын

1) Sorry I blamed you unfairly. No doubt policing the comments was too much of a burden. 2) Do you remember that scene from Monty Python's "Holy Grail" when the French used a catapult to launch farm animals at King Arthur and his men? In regards to crying women at Synod, I can think of a new use for that catapult....

@Phlebas9202 19 күн бұрын

A shout-out from the floor today PVK!

@PaulVanderKlay 19 күн бұрын

I heard David and his "Confessional Conversation" speech. It was tremendous. Wish it had passed.

@Phlebas9202 19 күн бұрын

@PaulVanderKlay yes. I'm a big fan of David Salverda although I didn't completely understand the avenue he was promoting.

@CHIEFBIGFAITH4Christ 19 күн бұрын

My late grandfather was a CRC church planter in Hemet CA

@lancecleaver227 19 күн бұрын

“Synod kind of staggers around like a drunken man” perfect! lol … the lack of setting time limits for deliberation and to act are mind boggling for us who have actually run effective governance. The droning and repeating is exhausting in the CRC.

@stevevos1765 19 күн бұрын

We all grumble about it too, but that's the unique parts. We recognize our own depravity, and lean on grace for our redemption. Some folks need a little more sanctification. 😊

@lancecleaver227 19 күн бұрын

@@stevevos1765 lol love that response

@PaulVanderKlay 19 күн бұрын

It can be maddening to sit on the floor and see Rev. X and Elder Y stand up to address EVERY topic while the clock ticks by. I have to really watch myself because I can get punchy and then unwelcome snarky practical jokes come out sideways...

@WongTag 19 күн бұрын

To an extent I can’t explain, probably because I’m not a political scientist, I’d say this level of bureaucracy is why the CRC is able to navigate differently than the UMC. The CRC may be the first Protestant denomination to not “split right”.

@tylerhelfers7693 19 күн бұрын

I am hopeful for the ways synod's decisions may spur on richer, more robust, whole-life catechesis and discipleship. I think the distinctions between the expectations for members compared to officebearers is good and helpful. The effort made to balance authority/ministry/mission between the local church and higher assemblies expresses a desire for unity, consistency, and trust, while also giving some flexibility and room for creativity in ministry and mission with the bounds of our shared confessions. (Though, I don't know if everyone sees it this way)

@mirandaderooy5416 18 күн бұрын

I haven't watched all of the synod videos but I think we sometimes forget how community oriented some of the local churches are and that they need to be able to shape their ministry to the needs locally (while still abiding by the confessions, etc). This coming from a Canadian who has seen how different ministry can be between churches and also across borders.

@jimluebke3869 19 күн бұрын

Uh-oh. Is the CRC going to split over how to pronounce "gravamina"?

@Pseudo_Boethius 18 күн бұрын

It's "gravamens" you heretic! Don't make me file an overture.....

@Phlebas9202 19 күн бұрын

From what I've seen the RCA, PCA, and now URC never allowed comments so I say good on the CRC for trying 😂

@lancecleaver227 19 күн бұрын

Totally. I would never have comments open for that type of thing,

@Freerilian 19 күн бұрын

A TLC livestream is about as obscure a thing as there it and even that brings in 50% haters.

@stevevos1765 19 күн бұрын

Paul's right. It's y'all. 😂

@lancecleaver227 19 күн бұрын

@@stevevos1765 I’d be curious, other than Jacob, most of us recognize this is a CRC thing and don’t really interfere on those chats. I’ll check the live chat out because I don’t even have those on while watching.

@Phlebas9202 19 күн бұрын

@@lancecleaver227I wasn't watching chat at the time but plenty of CRC people were arguing throughout Synod. There actually were very few TLC people commenting. I did one comment the entire Synod because it's not really my place and those people baptized me! An old classmate of mine was even speaking today.

@ChadTheAlcoholic 19 күн бұрын

Man this all ducks matter section is very good

@kelseytrombley1211 19 күн бұрын

It’s kinda interesting watching clips of synod as someone who used to be CRC and is now Orthodox. I have memory once volunteering in the children’s ministry when I was a teenager at the church and I was speaking to the adult in church for some reason we got on the topic of the 5 points of Calvinism. The woman said she disagreed with about half of them. I responded like “don’t you have to agree with those to be a member?” And she responded “probably, but it goes against my conscience.” So to say that not all members of the CRC agree with the CRC would be accurate! (And this was in the GR area!) (I commented this earlier and had some spelling errors, they’ve since been fixed!)

@teestrypzSOG 19 күн бұрын

OG PVK viewers know after a messy video comes a classic video. The duck eats bread illustration was near Orwellian, playful and useful. we need animators in the corner to start working on it.

@CHIEFBIGFAITH4Christ 19 күн бұрын

Muggy to say the least . Record heat 🔥

@williambranch4283 19 күн бұрын

My denomination is UMJC. We aren't very confessional but are more theological than ethnic. The local rabbi is boss, and we count on him to make elders and to mind the denominational business.

@Freerilian 19 күн бұрын

Have been curious to hear your thoughts. Or rather, to read between the lines of what you’re saying to hear your thoughts lol.

@stevevos1765 19 күн бұрын

I think at times you might have more than archetypes noodling in the head Paul! 😆 Seems like some literal voices might be living rent free! I mean this as as compliment. I also dislike the dichotomy that's often presented. But the more that we fail to understand 'the other', the more straw men we build against them. I might be a fairly conservative fellow, but that doesn't make up my identity. Pretty tough to lump the labels on many of these folks, but one thing is proving to be true: the majority present seem to understand what they would like to see out of the CRC. There are lines we'd prefer not to cross. Here's how we will imperfectly try to draw it.

@nonymousse4107 18 күн бұрын

My goodness, that duck-but had me laughing hard^^

@nonymousse4107 18 күн бұрын

Bit, not but

@clintd3476 19 күн бұрын

It walks like a duck, talks like a duck, BUT does it weigh as much as a duck???

@Neal_Daedalus 19 күн бұрын

20:00 Duck Duck C.W.!!!!!

@moecrazy 19 күн бұрын

If it makes you feel better, I have also received messages asking if I was the reason the comments section got shut down

@samuelewing8935 19 күн бұрын

Oh no! Did Tgrog get into the synod live stream?

@Freerilian 19 күн бұрын

“Seems like delegates can’t agree on what Christianity is… must mean Christianity isn’t real!!!”

@jimluebke3869 19 күн бұрын

"None of these rules mean anything unless they're loved and seen as useful" What would you think of a church that didn't love and see the Ten Commandment as useful? Would you think that there was something not quite right about it? Would it ... need reform?

@Pseudo_Boethius 18 күн бұрын

PVK is correct on this point: rules are only used and enforced if they are seen as useful. As for the Ten Commandments....it seems they are mostly hated by the urban monoculture, and yes, there is certainly something not quite right about it.

@gregsmy 19 күн бұрын

Is the course created by your colleague on the four Ps of truth for church publicly available?

@Phlebas9202 19 күн бұрын

Unless I'm mistaken I think they lost the first part of Tuesday afternoon because of how they took down the livestream. This is a real shame that they can hopefully fix.

@Phlebas9202 19 күн бұрын

I think they just fixed it. The stream momentarily came through as a premiere.

@ryanschreiber9183 19 күн бұрын

“Our polity is holding up.” You could say that the RCA is falling victim to its constitutional nature. You could say the CRC is falling victim to its lack of a constitutional nature aka mob rule.

@jimluebke3869 18 күн бұрын

RCA seems to be falling victim to chaining itself to the Spirit of the Age.

@shovas 19 күн бұрын

Do you ever have second thoughts about large institutional church?

@PaulVanderKlay 19 күн бұрын

No, the levels need each other and are usually present despite different ecclesiologies.

@shovas 19 күн бұрын

@@PaulVanderKlay Didn't think you would :) Just all the inside baseball is really just cementing for me the balance of positive and negative that Babel-like large structures bring.

@stevevos1765 19 күн бұрын

Hope you heard your shout-out today on the floor Paul- "Mr Vanderploeg goes to Synod" It's 10 PM, but I think I have 45 minutes in me for this.

@PaulVanderKlay 19 күн бұрын

I didn't. I'll have to check the transcript.

@PaulVanderKlay 19 күн бұрын

If anyone has a timestamp or a rough idea where it is I'd like to hear it.

@stevevos1765 19 күн бұрын

@@PaulVanderKlay This evening, 1:44 ish. Kris Vos, no immediate relation 🙂, on the work of Classis SE with multi-site churches.

@stevevos1765 19 күн бұрын

Sorry, 1:44:00 on that timestamp.

@Phlebas9202 19 күн бұрын

@@PaulVanderKlaySpeaker at 1:45:00 where we find out Scott is actually a Bishop.

@Pseudo_Boethius 18 күн бұрын

Finally an idea I can fully support: inviting ducks to the Lord's Supper, because, as we all know, ducks love bread. After all, love is love. Call me duck affirming. But you are correct, there are lines that should not be crossed, and allowing Canada geese would be an abomination of the highest order. Let's keep this to ducks only, and not other species.

@jimluebke3869 18 күн бұрын

"I love my duck!" - Larry the Cucumber, as King David Amazing how VeggieTales was able to make the story of David and Bathsheba G-rated, just changing a single letter.

@Pseudo_Boethius 17 күн бұрын

@@jimluebke3869 -- I must admit, VeggieTales was a stunning achievement in it's day. It was probably a better apologetic for Christianity than anything any intellectual ever came up with.

@simonson6880 19 күн бұрын

It appears some people assume having your role as an office-bearer in the church be limited due to confessional difficulties is the first step in your being kicked out of the church. This is not true at all, and I'm not sure where that idea comes from.

@williambranch4283 19 күн бұрын

PVK has G-d's sense of humor. But theologically ... he is a quack ;-))

@Pseudo_Boethius 18 күн бұрын

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's probably is PVK.

@jimluebke3869 18 күн бұрын

@@Pseudo_Boethius No, he just loves bread, he really really does.

@Pseudo_Boethius 17 күн бұрын

@@jimluebke3869 -- And I love bread too, I really, really do.

@williambranch4283 19 күн бұрын

Following the CRC Synod? 21st century flagellant ;-) Lived in a village with three churches a generation ago, now dropping to two. A question, if this is how Dutch Calvinists behaved 450 years ago, how did it survive the 80 Years War?

@nathansybrandy 18 күн бұрын

This is most assuredly not how Dutch Calvinism behaved 450 years ago. 😅

@nyletterpress 19 күн бұрын

“I don’t like these labels of liberal and conservative”

@Pseudo_Boethius 18 күн бұрын

They work more often than they don't.

@jimluebke3869 18 күн бұрын

@@Pseudo_Boethius Conservatives haven't been all that great at conserving, for the last while. They're pushed to "compromise" with the arsonists time and time again, to only burn down part of the house.

@matthewkilbride1669 19 күн бұрын

Super interesting from the 12-15 minute mark. If the goal is evangelism and growing the church, how does that square with the need for theological confessionality? “Hey, come on in! Welcome! If you progress in the church and get some leadership, though, better not disagree or we’ll kick you out.” Seems like theological distinctive have to be forefronted during evangelism.

@chrishoward8473 19 күн бұрын

Do they actually kick out members individually? I'm not saying they should or shouldn't, just wondering. My old Sunday school teacher who went to prison, I actually don't know what was done about his church membership (this was not CRC).

@matthewkilbride1669 19 күн бұрын

@@chrishoward8473 I really don’t know. I’m not CRC. But it seems like there’s a double standard where, if you’re entering the church, you’re welcome, but if you develop a recognized leadership role, an orthodoxy test kicks in (or at least that’s what being discussed). I’ll give you my story. I was baptized and raised Catholic and as an adult joined an evangelical church. The then pastor wanted me to take on a formal leadership role on the condition that I get re-baptized. I refused. They didn’t kick me out, but my role in the church was limited from there on out. Seems similar to what they’re discussing in the CRC.

@chrishoward8473 19 күн бұрын

@@matthewkilbride1669 that doesn't seem too bad. To go further you would have to agree more... Organizations with a goal do that.

@matthewkilbride1669 19 күн бұрын

@@chrishoward8473 I agree in general, except that with Protestant churches, a foundation of the Reformation was a "priesthood of believers." Protestantism is full of internal contradictions but they want to cling on to them without acknowledging them. I'd prefer if they just admitted to how Catholic in practice they actually are. As JBP says, hierarchies are inevitable, so give up the "Papism" critique.

@pigetstuck 19 күн бұрын

I was probably part of the reason they shut down the comments. I mentioned that I grew up Nazarene, am ecclesially homeless, and love psalmody. I don't think that the CRC wants much outside attention. There is fairly strong "den mother" energy in the CRC.

@lancecleaver227 19 күн бұрын

My live tweets got some checks in in Twitter and Paul’s KZfaq comments … folks were ready to narc out a rogue delegate tweeter lol… guess I also sound like an insider too

@pigetstuck 19 күн бұрын

@@lancecleaver227 let's be honest... I think Jacob got us all in trouble 🙂 CRC needs to toughen up a bit.

@teestrypzSOG 19 күн бұрын

🥖🦆

@mlts9984 18 күн бұрын

Ducks and geese are baptized as chicks. I don’t see why they should be excluded from the lords supper. Those dirty pigeons on the other hand …

@AphraelPilotson 19 күн бұрын

15:20 Y'ALL CAN'T BEHAVE

@matthewkilbride1669 19 күн бұрын

This’ll sound flippant but I don’t mean it to be. When you say you need to do some Heidelberg Catechism sermons, that sounds to me like some CRC propaganda sessions. Presumably you think that’s a mischaracterization, but I’m not sure why. It’s kind of a semantic question, but any thoughts?

@moecrazy 19 күн бұрын

It certainly could be that. However, in the CRC we believe that the confessions are accurate summaries of Scripture and useful for teaching. In the best case using the Catechism can be helpful for teaching a congregation portions of Scripture. However bad actors will do what bad actors do.

@matthewkilbride1669 19 күн бұрын

@@moecrazy Thanks. I guess what I meant was that if you have a person from a non-CRC background come into the church with heterodox ideas vis-a-vis the doctrines of grace, it sounds to me like they need "correcting". You could put ominous negatives overtones to that or you could just frame it as teaching what the church historically believes to be true (innocent enough). The issue I guess arises when the person listens to the teaching and objects on Biblical grounds that they're unconvinced. What then? Are they unwelcome as a CRC member or are they just barred from any ascent in the church hierarchy? And how does that capture what the ultimate purpose (priority?) of the church is? These are kind of unfair questions, but they stick out to me.

@moecrazy 19 күн бұрын

@@matthewkilbride1669 good questions. This all has more to do with office bearers than membership. If they have heterodox ideas membership shouldn’t be a problem. It’s when there is a desire to be a deacon, elder, or minister where those things become more important

@joelslenk7690 19 күн бұрын

Ahhhh - so many tangents - stay on point

@teestrypzSOG 19 күн бұрын

Welcome to the show

@BrysonCole-rl2rj 19 күн бұрын

Bread isn’t good for ducks.

@stevevos1765 19 күн бұрын

But they sure love it. There's a parallel in that metaphor... somewhere.

@BrysonCole-rl2rj 19 күн бұрын

@@stevevos1765 Sure is. Low nutrition, fouls their environment, can harm the growth of their young and attract disease, vermin and pests. How’s that?

@stevevos1765 19 күн бұрын

@@BrysonCole-rl2rj Now do humans and (x) vice. 🙂

@BrysonCole-rl2rj 19 күн бұрын

@@stevevos1765It’s to do with what we prefer to feed ourselves within and without the church.

@Pseudo_Boethius 18 күн бұрын

Heretic!

@Phlebas9202 19 күн бұрын

Also interesting today: RCA exchanges relatively unchanged. Some ex-RCA on the floor with spicy comments. Multi-site churches, Bishop Vanderploeg. What to do? Denomination within denomination?