Modern jets and AA systems seems too fast to deal with drones but propeller planes appear to have the speed profile to fill this niche.

Shooting was reported to have been done by a rifleman in the second seat

The US military buying 75 Sky warden planes makes total sense

The day-glo parachute is for recovery, Orlans are recon drones that fly back for reuse, helps the operator see where it falls.

Players in war thunder killing KA-52s and Eurocopter Tigers in their Yak-9s and P-63s

It's not a bad idea. There is a company ("Red Star" I think?) that rebuilt dozens of Yak-52s in Ukraine for export in the 2000s so there wouldn't be any shortage of them. Even the older ones are their basic military trainer. If you get the chance to ride in or fly one take it, lots of fun.

12:08 I believe the french navy published a video where they shot down a huthi drone with a helicopter in the red sea

Great discussion. A yak 52 cost per hour (without weapons RADAR etc) is $200USD (approx). The cost per hour of a blackhawk is $1300-1400 USD (approx). The cost of a Shadeq drone is $20,000 USD (approx). It will get down to best value for cost option IMHO. Cost estimates via wikipedia.

The parachute is part of the drones emergency landing process, most drones of its size class do similar things with some relying solely on the parachute for landing normally.

DCS has a Yak-52 for your information.

Great chat guys! Although I'm a little disappointed that close range directed energy weapons were not mentioned for anti-drone.

Would the rotor wash from any helo knock the drones down? I know the rotor wash from a Chinook is pretty intense.

It's what Snoopy would do. It works

big stadiums in the US have defenses for drones...radar/FLIR detectors and kinetic energy counter-drones are the next-gen

I would imagine that when weapons developers where developing offensive weapons they also where working on defensive weapons for them. It would make sense to figure out how the enemy might defend against the offensive weapons and figure out how to defend against them if they are used against us. My thinking in a swarm attack would be a flak style weapon that might take out a large number of them and then the lesser numbers of them would be easier to handle. A very early warning and action would be required for enough time for a good effect.

War, war never changes

I heard T-Bear has 7 drone kills in his Air Tractor. It was online, so it must be true.

The war carrier pigeon is the grandfather of the fpv drone today

Fokker D-7s would be the perfect aircraft for anti-drone patrol. Or maybe Hawker Hurricanes.

I've wondered about training hawks to take down drones.

We are still in the creative experimental phase of counter drone measures. It is going to take some time for trial and error and measure countermeasure before we settle on the most practical solutions.

Drone swarms countered by drone swarms? BFM\ACM from less than 10 meters? Tiny AIM 120's?

This is so war thunder

An IDF soldier was talking about how they have some sort of auto fire built into their guns. It somehow locks the target and only shoots when the vector of the bullet will intercept the drone, basically hold the trigger down and scope your target, as soon as the target crosses the crosshairs the mechanism fires the bullet. Could be BS, but it doesnt seem too far out there, its essentially IA recognizing and object and controlling the trigger pull.

I think the solution is a "Barrage Balloon Hyprid", where a network of these balloons protect likely corridors of drone attack and are equipped with simple and inexpensive civilian marine radar systems that can detect incoming drones, or even passive sensors, that can be used to train some kind of ballistic weapon on target. Depending on the density of balloon deplotment it can be either automated small arms/shotgun fire or these ballons could be manned with a crew. I think we are going to be using a lot more primitive weapon ideas in the future to save costs, and there is a weird irony in that.

Does the USMC still fly the Cobra?

Long time fan, first time caller lol, Gonky, what's the gatling gun system with the white dome on the carriers that could track and shoot down incoming missiles? That solution would work from a ground-based vehicle or mounted on a large enough aircraft.

The Mojave drone has been tested with 2 mime guns and with a 25 hour flight time it can stay on station .

Would the A-10s be good for this?

I think a wing mounted pod based on the mean R2 tech that is designed to take out drones would be a pretty cool thing to see on one of those Sky Wardens (crop dusters with guns plane) ... But the part of this conversation that you guys didn't touch on is ... that was over a civilian area. Do you really want a minigun blasting a thousand rounds at a drone, directly down into a civilian area? ... do you think when some sort of anti-drone pod is made it will have a solution for this (rubber bullets?) to provide limitation on the damage being thrown around by these defensive missions on their own civilian area?

As long as the airspace is secure why not? Besides it isn't exactly the most efficient way, but def easier than in a jet. Just flying at close to stall speeds that low while trying to hit one of those would be super sketchy. Lol

South Korea tried something similar to deal with North Korean recon drones with their KT-1 trainers and it crashed, unfortunately.

Not really surprising as it's not like physics has changed in the last few thousand years. When the cost / benefit analysis says to use a Yak52 and unguided weapons (bullets), well that's what you do. One big problem with something like a Yak52 is it's lower top speed compared to a fastjet means it takes longer to move to a different AO in response to active threats. I suspect for the Uke's it's more a case of "Well we've got THIS thing to try.." rather than the result of analysis. Drones however are only going to get faster, tougher, smarter, and cheaper. Swarms might see the return of airborne laser and Metal Storm, but on-station cost and reaction time are always going to be a problem with these kinds of time-sensitive targets. It may be cheaper (though less politically correct) to just pay for improved disaster response than "Iron Dome mk 2". The really scary version is drone swarms with bioweapons in them, though there are even easier ways to deploy if that's the scenario.

Gotta love FaceTime hand gesture emotes.

Were hornets also going after drones because its an intercept and they have the range and speed? They can get out there and maintain more of a perimeter than a seahawk? Maybe they need a secondary mission for the CODspreys.

airborne laser could deal with saturation attacks ? or someone develop a small, gliding submunition with pop out wings and seeker head made from OTS components, deployed via rotary launcher from an underwing pod ? No warhead, no propulsion, it just gets dropped at medium alt and airspeed, and rams the drone...

I always knew, world war 3 will also be fought on propellers. My uncle is a mig pilot in IAF bac in the 90s, he would always say how fuel inefficent modern jets are compared to the birds of the world war 2.

What about the laser guided 70mm rockets from Apaches?

a few old hueys with M60 door gunners wokka wokka wokka

They need to invent the flak cannon from Unreal Tournament.

Andrul has developed a drone that will crash into another drone to take it out. I can definitely see future drones have a modified AR15 or p90 framework down the center of the airframe. Then either poke the gun through the nose cone of the prop or run a rear prop. Andrul already has drones that vertically take off with the tri stand config spaceX uses, so the same thing could be used for the drone gunships.

I don't think a single thing about this war is real except the tragic and senseless loss of young men...

Um... anybody got any spare Sopwith Camels?

The naval aviation museum in Pensacola has a Fokker DVII rigged for carrier landings......DR1s anyone? And let's not forget Bristol Gladiators.

Figure out a net 🥅 I think we need to possibly look at camera companies who're developing recognition software/ai. Nikon, Olympus, Canon, and Sony all have advanced subject recognition software. If radar isn't advanced enough to discern between a drone and a bird we're going to need something of a hybrid system that can do multiple things at once. A miniature A-WAX 😅 We might need the model plane guys flying sorties.

At this point I wonder if Ukraine should perhaps learn from what the Russians did, and dig in with multiple defensive layers and lay mines. It's sad but I think this might be what it's come to.

Would drone patrol be a fun mission, or would you be too worried about friendly ADA?

1:35 definitely an AK-74 firing at ground level

I've been saying for awhile, the whole battle space is going to revert to a WW1/WW2 style of fight. As an Army guy for nearly 20 years, It makes no sense to use Guchi ADA (like Patriot) to take down $50 drones that are swarming your position. We'll end up hunkering down in trenches and bunkers, using our own $20 anti-drone drones to clear the airspace, and then push towards our objective. Same for airpower. I mean, who wants to lose a billion dollar aircraft to a few $100 drones? That's completely unsat, and will require us to use fighter drones with guns to take down the "bomber" drones lugging grenades. Which then leads to the enemies "fighter" drones running aircover for the "bomber" drones... aaannndddd we're back to early 20th century fighting. What's truly interesting, is that will all be going on along side billion dollar jets flying deep strike missions against hardened targets (about the only thing a drone can't do, due to payload limitations).

Okay... Guess KZfaq is just deleting comments willy nilly now.

...and this is why multipurpose/CAS/assault VTOLs vs drones vs prop planes vs VTOLs is our inevitable future. Thank you for coming to my noncredible defense talk.

There are various stol planes around, but I don't know if they're mass produced anywhete. There's a Serbian company that's solely dedicated to producing a stol based on the Fieseler Storch. It stalls at something like 22 knots. It's cheap and easy to fly for a noob. Someone could buy a couple of stol planes and test the idea out. How safe is it to slowly putput near a combat zone, that's another thing. But behind lines it could work.

One plane can take out several of these drones given that the drones are deployed from the same area. Either start from the back to front or from front to back. These drones aren’t really meant to maneuver.

Believe it or not, ww2 turboprop planes are actually the best counter to modern jets. Modern jets seemingly can't lock onto shit like that, simply because it wasn't designed to. In terms of dogfighting, a yak wins over non air maneuverability focused jets. Irony, at its finest. We've gotten so advanced that we've somehow wrapped back around.

Resurrection of the Turret Fighter?

you know.. oddly it makes sense that you'd counter a cheap drone with a prop driven plane. just when it comes to a cost perspective. i mean small arms fire from the ground makes sense too what makes more sense still is fighter drones which have the sole duty of traveling with ground elements and intercepting incoming drones. If you get it to the same ammunition as your main battle rifle all the better as you simplify supply. but yeah in the interim why not use yak-52s to escort ground elements. it's a lot cheaper in the short term than loosing felon interceptors who can't really operate near ground forces effectively... or near nato aircraft... or in the same air theater as a bumble bee... dear god i don't even want to know what would happen if a spider got into the cockpit. Actually that reminds me of why you shouldn't use yaks to escort ground elements... because they're piloted and maintained by the Russian military.. how can i forget.

I wonder if flechettes might help counter slower drones?

Quadcopters are good for surveillance, but ordinance should be delivered by higher speed winged craft aka cruise missles. Germany was launching dozens of V-1s per day 80 years ago. 400mph and 1800lb of explosive. Ukraine's converted ultralight planes are sad in comparison.

The F-22 Raptor. Looks great at airshows, lethal against balloons.

Drones to counter drones

I wonder if they are designing drones to hunt and kill drones.

the navy needs multiple FPV operators aboard to defend against sea baby drones at a stand off distance.

R.I.P UKR airforce

I'll be damned....I commented a few days ago on an other of their video asking about using ww2 style fighters to take down drones. The channel replied "what sensors would they use?". Turns out they used their eyes... But seriously. I was on to something, it turns out. Plus, aren't helicopters more expensive ? They use them in Ukraine to shove dumb rockets. Why not slow planes for close air support too ?

Engaging these over civilian ground seems like a bad idea…

There are claims of it being a Ukranian OJ 22 or something drone

whatever works 🤷‍♂

Do these drones go defensive?

It's not a drone. It's a fixed wing UAV. and yes, many of them have recovery chutes, which may be deployed by the autopilot in a failsafe event. So not surprising. Gonky seems confused as to why a "drone" would have a BR chute. but they use them instead of landing them on a runway... Do not need GPS, because you can just use compass data. it's called dead reckoning mode in arduplane. a temporary jamming of gps will not hinder missions. and yes they are autonomous. dont' need inertial navigation or AI to accomplish these things.

I believe that lasers and radar guns are the answer to low to medium altitude drones and until there is a less expensive option, then missiles are probably the answer to the high altitude drones and the Patriot is likely the only answer to ballistic missile threats and hypersonic threats with a predictable trajectory. I don't think there is a counter to maneuvering hypersonic missiles. The US is probably working on it, but that is a really, really, hard targeting problem. I think something like the Israeli Iron Beam technology could possibly address the drone / missile swarm. However, Israeli Iron Dome and anti-missile technologies combined with allied jets and Naval anti-aircraft / ballistic missile technologies did achieve a 99% success rate in intercepting different kinds of incoming threats. A tip of the hat to all involved. But the cost to defend against those threats in all likelihood costs far more that the threat. We (the allies) were sending multi-million dollar missiles to intercept a hundred thousand dollar missile. Although it seems very hard for Russia to lean lessons in combat, they did learn that with the help of Iran they can now out produce Russian drones. against Ukraine. And while in my opinion Ukraine still has a superior advantage in trained drone operators and drone innovation, Iran's drone technologies are being transferred to Russia and Russia's drone capability is beginning to equal or potentially leap frog that of Ukraine. I guess the nest technological step are stealth drones. I'm wondering if the Defense Department has actually grasped the importance of overwhelming Russian, Chinese, and North Korean artillery. NK has over 25,000 artillery pieces. SK has something like 6,000. My point is that the US, NATO, Japan, Philippines, etc. have to find ways to overcome the overwhelming numerical advantage our potential enemies had in just about everything. I can have a machine gun, but the my enemy is conducting an attack with thousands of soldiers all willing to die, my superior machinegun technology isn't going to stop them. I would need technology that would prevent them for overwhelming our defenses. I think Iran took notice that their strategy of overwhelming offensive technologies against Israel's technology defenses combined with allied technology defenses failed completely. So did Russia, China, and NK. For every effective defense there is another more effective offense and vise versa. And so it will always be. Until fairly recently, the US has always lagged behind in reacting to unexpected enemy capabilities and then scrambling for a solution. This is most often, in my opinion, to Congress and the Pentagon's short sightedness in looking to the future. The F-22 program was cancelled because the pentagon and congress thought we would be fighting asymmetric wars forever with no need for stealth fighters that could gain air superiority in a near peer conflict. Have not or military leaders and our politicians learned anything from history? Every war we've fought in the 20th and 21st Century has caught us at a disadvantage militarily or more importantly politically because we are always looking to fight our last war instead of looking to fight our future wars and Congress is always looking to ways to constrain the military with the "Peace Dividend" that diverts funds from the military to be prepared for future wars so that Congress can fund political social programs to get reelected. The cycle hasn't yet been broken. The military is still preparing to fight the last wars and Congress is still trying to get reelected by defunding the military. Trump broke that cycle for 4 years, but then Biden has reversed it once again. Military preparedness is still at the mercy of Congressional reelection campaigns to use the "Peace Dividend" to fund social programs that have no measure of success and so there is just pouring more good money into bad social programs or at least where there is no measure of success with which to evaluate those programs.

Did the pilot use a pistol to shoot it down?

Apparently, YT doesn't want me sharing my idea for an anti-drone drone in comments here, since it just removes it. Oh well...

not necessarily saying it would be good against swarms unless you had your own swarm.. but companies are working on anti-drone countermeasures atleast. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/idh3eLF2vdXHeok.html (only first couple minutes of this is worth watching for reference) (its a Mark Rober vid for anti-drone stuff)

Just miniaturize WW1 to WW2 full air warfare evolution in autonomous version with ground targets replacing cities, factories, and military targets...

the marines and army are using microwave jammers to fry drones

12ga shotgun with #6 steel shot... People have been shooting geese, ducks and doves out of the sky with those for more than a century. Most FPV/COTS drones are about the same size. We are, typically, over thinking/over engineering the solution.

Should we send P-51s instead of F-16s?

What in the flying horse and buggy am I watching

I think a smaller scale rc plane with a gun could do this job too, or make it big enough to fire a 40 mm proximity round speaking of ww2 tech!

Alternatively, the drone had already deployed it's chute and they just shot at it. That's why they didn't show the initial engagement.

Unsupportable business model due to insufficient kickback cushion for US politicians.

No proof that yak shot down the drone

A better financial analysis is to look at the value of the target that is protected.

DCS has the Yak 52 it can carry rocket pods also.

spitfires used to tip the wings of german missiles, bumping them out of the sky...... the drone is on a direct flightpath

Haha I literally just watched Cap and the Grim Reapers (DCS) take out drones with WW2 warbirds

👽👽👽👽🌎👽👽👽👽

I was thinking about the Super Tucano back in June of last year, when folks were talking about F-16. My remaining question is whether the cheap air-to-air missiles that thing can carry could be a threat to cruise missiles

battlefield 2042

wait so Iron Eagle 3 confirmed?

With the consumer drones you don't even need a gun, a bucket of water will bring them down, and probably the downdraft from a chopper since most are limited to sub 30mph winds for flight. With the bigger ones a weighed net or even long rope with weights and/or grappling hooks could be dropped on them and wouldn't even need to hit the propulsion device if its heavy enough to throw off the COB or exceed the max weight.

I don't think this is real. What kind of rifle? I have never seen Russian drone with a parachute. There was no news of a mass attack, drones come in droves.

Algorithmic engagement comment.

GG uts its true to Canada ll dismissed 39 planes as L 39

Its a fake! I wonder how he aims his machineguns ? With what sights? Especially when he has to lead the target...

DCS World. You guys got faked.

Russia FTW

I don't think any modern heat seeking or active radar guided missile should count as an air to air kill, especially if the target is non-manuevering. It's not like the days of old where you had to get the target in your sights, hold him there while doing controlled bursts, and stay aware of enemies trying to shoot you. The pilot doesn't do shit, the computer finds the target, the pilot hits a button, and the missile does all the work to make it to the target, and the pilot never had to maneuver once. Otherwise, all SAM operators who get 5 shoot downs should be aces too. I think only gun kills and Semi-active missile kills against maneuvering targets should count. No slow drones or balloons.

No!!!!! Nobody shoots down a drone in Ukraine…..NOBODY!!!!!

Purely a propaganda video. Imagine if it flew over ANY modern gun system. It's like those Video's of pretty girls carrying guns making people thing loads of women are joining up.. Fact is 2 million of them fled, never to return, Like they ALWAYS have throughout history. If anything using planes like this (IF they actually are witch i seriously doubt) just shows how desperate they are, like using old Maxim MG's or Mosin rifles.