CYC Photon vs TOSEVEN DM02 Mid-drive Ebike Motors which is the best so far

Рет қаралды 3,907

High Voltage DIY Electric Bikes and Vehicles

Күн бұрын

This is a look at the differences between the CYC Photon and the TOSEVEN DM02. The video will go over where I feel one motor has an advantage over the other. You can hopefully then use this information to make a more informed choice if you are looking for an ebike motor of this style. If you have questions please post them in the comments or on our Discord. As always these are my opinions. Feel free to disagree but please explain your reasoning.
Feel free to join our Discord Community where there is a section for both the CYC Photon and the DM02 motors. / discord
Timestamps
0:00 - Introduction
01:09 - Price (Cost vs Value)
02:01 - Size and Fitting
03:15 - Looks
03:32 - Q Factor
04:03 - Installation
05:12 - Performance
07:11 - Torque Sensor
08:17 - Peripherals
08:59 - Firmware
09:31 - Adjusting Settings
13:03 - Reliability
14:08 - Warranty
14:28 - Ease of Repair
15:31 - Future Potential
18:38 - That's all folks!

Пікірлер: 56

@mikebryson8710 Ай бұрын

Been running a DM02 on my Catrike 700, have about 1300 miles on it, much improved torque response with firmware update, have a Tongshang on my Catrike Expedition with over 8000 miles on it, not quite as much power as the DM02 but has very good torque response, the big problem with it are the weak main gears, I go thru one approx every 2000 miles, I do run a throttle on both but mainly downhill and do use my gearing as not to stress the motors, running 52 tooth chain rings on both and 52v 20ah batteries on both, like the DM02 better, planning on trying out the DM01 in the future think it might stand up better, and trike and rider weight is 310-320 lbs fully loaded with 2-3 batteries and spare parts as I frequently do 100 mile rides, look forward to see the durability of the DM02 when I can get a few thousand miles on it over the next year.

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Great feedback Mike hopefully hear more from your adventures in the future. I will give the new firmware to have a try later in the summer.

@garywozniak7742 15 күн бұрын

My DM02 from California Ebikes is supposed to arrive today. It is for a TerraTrike Rogue recumbent trike. The Rogue has an Enviolo City Hub that is rated for 50nm continuous and 75nm maximum torque. It, the Rogue, comes with a 42t drive ring. I struggled with what drive ring to order for the motor with, and I went with the 42t to match what's on it as a starting point. I don't want to over torque that hub. Do you have any thoughts on the best drive ring size for this application ?. I will probably start the installation process tomorrow and check back in after I can get a ride in.

@lukewalker1051 Ай бұрын

Thanks for your hard work putting together this excellent comparison. Ride safe.

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Will do. Cheers Luke. Appreciate it!

@charlesblithfield6182 Ай бұрын

What an excellent comparison review. Given your analysis I favour the DM02. The need to dealer service the Photon is indeed a dealbreaker for me plus the DM02 seems better value for the money. I do not stress my eBike motors batteries and controllers and if anything prefer a system that allows just 50 or so watts with bursts of 250 for steep hills as more than 50 watts for me and my riding conditions means I can’t get my heart rate up enough.

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Thanks. Sounds like the DM02 will do what you are looking for. Cheers

@user-nk2zc2hg3i Ай бұрын

Excellent video as usual. You really do have a good "radio voice" , calm, clear, easy to understand, and you have laid out the comparisons well. The back ground sound on parts of the video did make it a bit hard for me to hear your voice in some places. I'm on the fence between the two motors, and your fair and balanced comparison, hasn't made it any easier, but that is a good thing. It seems to me that if I was going to up date the firmware on the DM02, I'd have to spend $1000 to buy a windows computer, which negates any cost advantage. Anyway, thanks again, keep up the good work.

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Thanks bill appreciate the kind words. Best of luck with your decision! Cheers

@ianbourne4084 Ай бұрын

Don't see how you need a $1000 computer to run a few files... Sure a slow laptop with fagged battery from the sidewalk would do fine if you had the charging chord

@billweaver3867 Ай бұрын

Thanks for this much awaited comparison. You promised it some while back and have now delivered in spades! Your comprehensive coverage of the pros and cons of each motor speaks volumes re the depth of your knowledge and experience of them in terms of, fitting, using, adjusting and upgrading software. To me it all comes down to budget and whether the extra $700 for the photon's superior sophistication is value for money. My feeling is that it is not! I also think that if Toseven got their act together and fixed the weaknesses of the DM02, which you have identified, then they could kick the photon into touch yet still undercut cyc by $450. I hope the "average Joe" appreciates what they are getting from the expertise behind and the hard work put into your videos. Good on you Cap!

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Cheers. They have an opportunity. Apparently The very latest firmware is a further improvement so I will try that later this year.

@SkyGizmmo Ай бұрын

Perfect as usual in covering pluses and minuses. Still very Leary of CYC initial QC issues just means it was not baked in the design and specs. Upside and ease of diy maintenance takes my vote.

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Cheers mate. You are too kind

@dougl6160 25 күн бұрын

That was very useful. I use the Photon at 52v like a Corolla, reliable vehicle for shopping and around town. It's necessary for enthusiasts like you to push the limits to improve the motors.

@HighVoltageKits 23 күн бұрын

Yeah it should be good for that fingers crossed. Mine broke again. I will hopefully get chance to troubleshoot it soon.

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Timestamps 0:00 - Introduction 01:09 - Price (Cost vs Value) 02:01 - Size and Fitting 03:15 - Looks 03:32 - Q Factor 04:03 - Installation 05:12 - Performance 07:11 - Torque Sensor 08:17 - Peripherals 08:59 - Firmware 09:31 - Adjusting Settings 13:03 - Reliability 14:08 - Warranty 14:28 - Ease of Repair 15:31 - Future Potential 18:38 - Thats all folks!

@dmitri360logcutting3 Ай бұрын

My question is does your photon still over heat or cyc has fix that problem I'm looking to buy one of the cyc motor's and I really like the photon because it's has just the one chain the x 1 gen 4 or nice and powerful but I just don't like the setup of 2 chains so I'm more leaning towards the photon or the bafang to be honest

@HighVoltageKits 14 күн бұрын

@@dmitri360logcutting3 by its nature it gets hot fast when using any kind of power with it.

@nervart Ай бұрын

Excellent comparison. I see a comment here indicating the DM02 is louder than the Photon. That would be another point to the Photon. A big chunk of the DIY crowd doesn't care about noise, but those of us that do care, really care. I would love for someone to make make a noise comparison. I have a Photon, but no access to either Toseven motor. But I would consider the Photon much louder than my BBSHD, and kind of at the peak of what is tolerable to me.

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

I modified my dmo2. So it’s not really representative. I don’t think either motor are that noticeable when riding. It’s not louder than a bbshd. When I get my Photon fixed I might try and get a decibel meter.

@lennymiller7336 Ай бұрын

Excellent video and narration as always! Always informative. Only question I have is, what is this discord you talk about and how do I access it?

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Thanks Lenny. It’s a chat app with forum style rooms dedicated to light electric vehicles. The join link is in the description.

@kalef1234 Ай бұрын

Good to know I can use a hammer on the Toseven crank tool, my DM01 came loose and dented my frame, been having trouble keeping it still. I'll torque it with some hammer taps next time

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Hit the shaft tho not the tool head

@kalef1234 Ай бұрын

@@HighVoltageKits got it, thank you!

@MHH3180 Ай бұрын

Photon is dramatically quieter. I think though a better comparison would be The DM01. It would win on power. For me and my customers, the value is in The DM02. Rare is my customer that can, much less will, take advantage of the differences.

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

If you are basing it on the footage here I modified it. So it’s not a good comparison noise wise. Although it is a bit louder than the photon. The photon would be equally loud at 12,000 rpm. It’s a good point on the customer. Most people would be very happy with a DM02 and I think that’s what they are going for.

@MHH3180 Ай бұрын

No, I am talking stock. I've finally got several ToSeven in the field and a half dozen Photons. The Photon rivals The BBS02 for quiet. The DM02 is louder even than The TSDZ2 (sold a gross). My customer's just don't care. The DM01 is a lot quieter, but heavier, over powered and makes for a less attractive install. I do not consider The Photon a DIY'er motor. There are too many little things that can impact the quality and reliability of your install. Amazing product and perhaps The Rolls of kits, but probably not the motor one should choose for theor first install. The ToSeven motors are incredibly simple. I can now kick them out in about 2.5 hours including hiding all the wiring very well and customizing the settings. That's usually not enough time to top off their battery.

@user-vg9fc3pg4o Ай бұрын

Thanks for this informative comparison ! What about the sound/noise difference between theses motors ?

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Not much difference. The Photon a bit higher pitch maybe but in terms of loudness very similar

@nolowputts Ай бұрын

Thank you for the thorough comparison. A couple questions though: you say that the torque sensing is better with the photon, but how exactly? I've only had experience with cadence sensing so not sure what makes one torque sensor better than another. Also, the DM02 has the option to run in cadence sensing if you want, correct?

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Yes you can turn off cadence sensing. In terms of the 85% it’s the feel of natural pedaling and responsiveness to pedal input.

@ataksnajpera Ай бұрын

@@HighVoltageKits Did you test with latest firmwmare from June?

@jamesharrison7114 Ай бұрын

Do you think Lekkie cranks would help with the Q factor of the Dmo2?

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Possibly. The latest dm02s have improved cranks apparently so might not be needed. I have requested some to try out.

@T.J.Mitchell Ай бұрын

I have a noob question. Forgive me if this is not the right forum, but I'm having trouble finding reliable advice on these after-market motors. I've ridden bikes with mid-drive motors but no throttle, and bikes with hub motors that include a throttle option. So how does a throttle work with these mid-drive motors you are testing? Does the motor have an automatic clutch or something, and turns the chain independently of the crank? Or do the cranks turn when you've got the throttle open, and you have to spin your legs with your feet on the pedals but without using your own muscle power? Seems like the latter would be...a robot-fixie kind of experience.

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

There is a sprag clutch built it so the pedals only rotate when you pedal or push the bike backwards. The cranks would be pretty lethal without

@HexaPig Ай бұрын

How can I get a 72v controller for the dmo1 can't find anyone who tunes an 855 for it sadly

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

I have I think the only one so far. We don’t have the torque sensor working though unfortunately. I’ll update on it next week.

@HexaPig Ай бұрын

@@HighVoltageKits please let us know when they are available for all of us I myself wouldn't mind toying with one but I still gotta get a dmo1 hopefully will have one in a month

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

Will do. Cheers

@manickbarry 8 күн бұрын

What’s this about the larger proton version 😮 can’t seem to find anything about it.

@HighVoltageKits 7 күн бұрын

It’s supposed to still be in the works. Only ever seen a few renders though.

@manickbarry 6 күн бұрын

@@HighVoltageKits just ordered a photon I’ve been having problems with my Bafang BBS02 and I’m looking forward to the torque sensor

@ataksnajpera Ай бұрын

Photon is too expensive! If you include shipping cost + VAT + duty then it costs ~1200 euro! That's insane for chinese motor! For example german Bosch/Brose motors cost less than 1000 euro. I do not consider a photon a DIY motor if you cant easily replace faulty parts at home. You should make an updated video with latest firmware installed in DM02.

@HighVoltageKits Ай бұрын

I am looking forward to trying the new firmware. Lots of people have told me it’s much better.