My father was a grandiose narc and my mother a covert narc. Darren's description is spot on. They manipulated and gaslit the crap out of each other and me, presenting a perfect appearance in public, but a horror show in private. I was a pawn and a tool, nothing more. I left home to join the Army at 17 and never returned. The environment in the Army was wonderful compared to home life. One thing I'd like to add is that my mother very adeptly used my father's grandiosity to play the poor, abused, unappreciated victim. She got TONS of attention that way and we didn't even realize she was a narc. She out lived my father by 25 years, and when my father died, she needed a new bad guy against whom to play the victim. That became me and I finally realized what a selfish, nasty and cruel person she was. She became nastier with every year until I finally cut her off several years before she died. Her predictable slander campaign turned the entire extended family against me. All of them are still against me ever after her death. That hurt at first, but after reflecting on it for several years, I came to see the greater disfunction within the entire family and am glad not to be a part of it anymore.

You just perfectly described my new upstairs neighbors who have been pure hell for 4 months now. They're in their 60's and just moved here from Las Vegas (mostly retired). I run a business from home and they set up shop right over my office and began with loud knocking noises. I was super cool with them when we all first met, offered any help, and eventually had to ask about the really loud knocks. I gave them a way out that maybe it's something their cats are doing. I was very light and kind with them even if it was making me crazy. Each one of them played stupid with me on separate occasions and then they escalated it. And all I could think, is who would move in like this, above someone who has already been here 2 years (and with no issues) and just try to destroy them with constant harassment? This isn't a 100 unit apartment building. It's a standalone building with only me and them and it's in a nice downtown mountain neighborhood. Basically, I began studying what the hell might be happening here and NPD is ringing every single bell across the board for both of them. And I feel like they've just made it their daily mission to slowly destroy me and my business day by day and bit by bit. I've never experienced anything like this. The whole experience has stolen so much of my time that it just feels evil.

Well I'll say this, at least there's some justice in this world. Narcissists deserve each other.

Thank you Darren. This helps me understand my parents' awful relationship.

You are spot on! I lived this for 2 1/2 years with my narc grandiose brother and his covert narc wife. They would both gang up on me until they realized they didn't like my grey rock! They stopped trying to bait me into arguments because the sting of me not feeding in was too much for them. Eventually, they stopped trying. I got away from them a little over 2 years ago.I don't know what they said to their 12 year old son after school one day. I watched that kid have a silent rage when his parents were out of eyesight. He went through the motions of slamming cabinets, the pantry door, and refrigerator door all with out make a sound. I was quite a display to see a full on rage. By this time, his mother had turned him against me. I tried talking to him but he wouldn't talk. It was very troubling to see him like this especially since i am a retired special needs teacher who worked with emotionally disturbed and behavior disordered children. Saw him and my brother recently at a family reunion. My brother looked tiny and sickley. My nephew looked heathy.

My husband's brother is a grandiose narc who married a covert narc. This video describes them perfectly. Would you believe we put up with them for over a decade, always wondering if we could do better, rationalizing their behavior, and trying to be empathetic? We finally cut them out of our lives over the course of 2 years. We expect them to "punish" us using all their social resources and manipulation tactics, but we feel so much peace now. If anyone out there is struggling, know that your feelings are worthwhile and remember that time is all you truly own. Move on, send unconditional love, and focus on all the wonderful things you are, not the shadow of the person they want you to be. It's the only way to heal. You can't change someone else, but no one can control you unless you let them.

I see this in my husband's now divorced parents. They also cheated on each other extensively. The result is my husband is emotionally immature because he never had support, validation or a good example in his own life. He always has to protect his mother even though he doesn't trust her. I find this odd sometimes. I'm grateful for your teaching and information. It made me see that some people, like my husband, grew up in horribly abusive homes, can't admit it and need a lot of healing. He comes off as a narcissist at times and has some behaviors but only because they are learned and he didn't know any other way until recently. He's still a work in progress and will be for many years. I find it frustrating but then you come along and give me more insight that I am so grateful for. It helps me to find more grace and patience in my heart for him. Thank you.

Absolutely spot on Darren. They can't live or live without each other. Soul destroying to see and so abusive to be around.

My parents fit this description. They both put on a good public image but in private my grandiose dad just destroyed my mother emotionally. He wouldn't allow her to do anything much, put her down as not pretty enough, and controlled the finances. Ironically, it was her money from her family, her inheritanc3 that she allowed him to control. There would horrible argumento and threats when she bought a picnic table while he would go out and buy himself a small airplane!!

This is WONDERFUL! I have just witnessed several NP’s going at each other during a custody battle over a child that 1 NP tried to take away from his mother. She failed miserably in court while trying to mislead the judge by LYING about the mother. 5 of the so called ‘witnesses’ (absolute miserable people) failed miserably as well. The judge ultimately ruled in favor of the innocent mother and terminated the ‘permanent guardianship’ that the NP’s thought were etched in stone for life. It was a huge day of victory for the mother AND families from 3 generations whose lives were incredibly shattered by the NP’s over the past 25 years. God is so good… ALWAYS!

Omggg my parents saga 😱

I suppose they deserve each other but imagine being the kid.

I lived this, father dearest was a grandiose wack job and mummy dearest was a covert wack job.

I saw this at a work place. They were very codependent. One deeply admired the other and was a flying monkey. Like in The Office with Dwight and the Michael Scott.

I think what the video generally captures is two types of narcissists who can't agree as to who is 'in charge'. However, if the grandiose is the agreed dominant and the covert the willing subordinate within that relationship it can be stable provided the subordinate doesn't rock the boat - the idealization (referred to in the video) can't end because it is viewed as absolutely vital to sustain the relationship by both the grandiose and the covert. There may be a stated demand (unstated to 'outsiders' who are ignored at leisure) that the subordinate narc has to sacrifice family associations and friendships to accommodate the total attention demands of the grandiose narc.

This is where I ran into trouble. In the early days of learning about narcissists, I had no idea that there were different types until I started meeting them. There is always more we can learn in order to protect ourselves. Thank you, Darren! Excellent topic to address.

I would love to know what a perfectly normal human is. Most of this stuff describes everyone to varying degrees.

My father was grandiose and my mother was covert. Both of my long-term relationships were with covert narcissists.

🌱🌏💚 KiaOra Darren & community. Looking forward to this topic. Malignant NPD father, covert NPD/BPD mother. When NPD's collide: 👹 + 👺 = 💣💥☠️

Thank you for So much more clarity around these complicated dynamics! ❤

Thanks Darren, you explain the relation between my father and my mother.

This was fascinating, Darren! I am sad that due to working 15 hour days, six days a week, I am very far behind on watching your videos. Please know that you are every bit as appreciated even though I have extremely little time to keep up. Thank you for sharing your knowledge- God bless you!

I know how this works intimately. Though I can always learn more. I’m excited to watch this video. Thank you 🙏🏻

Just me over here noticing that my wife who is a covert narcissist is working with a professor who is a grandiose narcissist. The wife and I are ending things, because I finally saw through it all after 11 years of mental and emotional abuse and manipulation. Now I am just here in a weird fascination to see if they eat each other alive or if they collude in some way. Something tells me Karma is coming sooner than later. Already saw one cycle of narcissism against my wife when that professor talked in a disparaging manner about her. Mainly, because she didn't see use in her on the project anymore. Then right after our separation the bonded over looming divorces at a conference. I wonder how long this goes for.

I hope you do more on these "combo" relationships, as there is very little to be found on the subject. Specifically, I'd be interested in the OCD with narc. traits and a malignant narc./histrionic.

What about extramarital affairs? A relationship like that certainly has a lot of mutual cheating, each partner blaming the other for their own behavior, while at the same time getting the thrills of deceiving the other.

Omg! Described my in-laws to a T. Wish I had this info some 18 years ago 😓🙏

My 2 sisters are, 1 , overt , 2 , covert ..I actually find the covert sister much worse..She constantly corrects everything l say and do Don't say that, stop doing that etc etc. Some years ago I nearly died from severe bilateral pneumonia. When I left hospital after some weeks I went to stay with covert. On the first night I got up to go to the toilet and she came flying out of her bedroom What are you doing! Get to bed , get to bed! I only stayed for 3 dsys . For the remaining 2 nights I had to take 2 pint glasses to my bedroom and piss in the glasses. Yep ( Obviously I never told her) I dread being anywhere near her. I will soon move to a new home and I am planning to escape both of ny sisters and their brainwashed children. I am broken 💔. But I will now RUN

Some of what you say sounds like me when I feel cornered or threatened. Hoping I'm not 'a narcissist', makes me ask is there a bit of narcissist in most of us that needs to be fought so it doesn't get to take over. The last point you mentioned about having or exercising genuine empathy seems to be a significant part of that fight (or cure).

In my anecdotal experience it usually ends in an affair.

So, I am hoping to let others on here who have been victimized by narcissistic parents, this dynamic describes my huband and me, almost to a T. I'm very sorry about what you guys have been through. It's been a tough pill to swallow to admit that I'm narcissistic and self-centered. But once I accepted that realization, I have been working hard on making changes in my behavior. I will say that my husband (soon to be ex) and I don't lack empathy. I just want people to know that some narcissists are willing to address their faults and the mistakes they've made, and do want to work to be better people in the future, by taking responsibility for their previous actions and learning from them to move forward and rebuild relationships. ❤

Oh, I knew both of my parents are narcisistic but now it's absolutely clear: he grandiose, she covert. Thanks a lot! ❤❤

Thank you! This perfectly describes my in-laws. How does a child (my husband) grow, learn and make changes after growing up in this environment?

This answers my question/s. I was convinced that my current covert narc spouse used to be married to a grandiose narc (the ex) and that's why I had such a hard time with both of them and their dynamics for 25 years, but didn't have a name or understanding of it at that time. The covert would back and cover-up for the grandiose and I would be the blamed one, always. I have much less contact with the ex now, but am enduring extreme behavior from my covert narc spouse to the point where I may have to finally depart.

The way they carry on one would think they were from a royal family , " roman, or greek, but not limited to those." It seems they prefer a slow drain, then a quick out by some belladonna slipped into a drink. This explanation was a very different take on it, i thought they couldn't co-exist because of the disorder. toxic feeding on toxic feeding on toxic and so on. It is bonkers.

I dated a guy whose parents who were covert & grandiose narcs. He married & followed his parents' example. The marriages endured & kept up a facade of the perfect family with tons of closet drama & manipulation. I dodged a bullet.

I think that, due to cultural reasons, more often men come out at overt and women as covert.

Thank you.

🌻

Should be interesting...

My father has signs of both asd and narcissism and is more overt, my mother vulnerable covert narcissist. A rotten environment but with all the bells and whistles of looking good. They should never have had kids!

Hi Darren, could you please talk about 2 covert narcissists relationship. I've been watching this couple, both of them meet the descriptions of vulnerable narcissistic wife and husband. Their life is full of dramas and lies and threats, to each other and to other people... I could never understand the dynamic in that relationship. So it would be great if you can give us some insights about that kind of relationship. Thank you.

My brother is a narcissist and is married to a woman with borderline personality disorder. They’re very concerned with their public image but behind closed doors, are ruthless with each other. Any thoughts on this?

This was the abusive parents that raised me. 💯

My mom and dad to a T

this video was really weird to watch, Doc, do you happen to know my parents by any chance?

Can the couple switch off who is grandiose and covert?

My ex new supply will be his karma she may turn out to be a narcissist. Both chaos. Good riddance to bad rubbish

Like my fine trait is not sufficient to be incoherent. I am not incoherent now. It requires other factors. Then to just guess that a person is not being abused, or was not abused is horrific. What about justice, and wellbeing? That matters. It thinks there is a handout for insulting people. Furthermore my trait can only exist in cases where there was rather extreme abuse. Ot doesn’t care about reality what so ever, it is an abomination. Aslong as it can bask in the glory and splendor in its delusions of being superior and admireable. It doesn't care what so ever about what it causes. Extreme misery or errors. It may blame someone else for everything wrong. There just is no sense of cause and effect. Just bask in the glory of have fooled useful idiots that it is rightly in its little throne of power, that ot ought to be admired. Like there is nothing admireable about it.

Harry and Meghan is this you???

Sounds like Harry and Meghan.

I often wonder what would have happened if Trump had won reelection and declared himself president for life; how would he have gotten along with Putin over time? A scary thought, but one we need to consider in this age of populism and autocratic rulers...

Its all theory, isn't? Sounds bit unrealistic.

Very helpful content