We are nearing the end of a 10 year saga. At this point the mystery needs to be minimized. I'm ready for answers to questions.

I do miss the early days of Destiny where there was a lot of mystery and a key theme was exploration. The game has a teaches a point plot wise where it’s toned down but that’s expected at this point in a story. While I would like more mystery, I would want more conclusions to set up from years ago - the Vex, retaking Torobatl, Xivu Arath and so on.

D1 had such an air of mystery. Every time I stepped into a patrol space (notably Cosmodrome and dreadnaught), I always imagined how vast the story of the game was and could’ve been.

Big points of mystery (in my eyes) 1. The Aphelion 2. Vex homeworld 3. The other big areas of earth (ie. Manhatten nuclear zone, etc.) And some others i forget

I definitely think there are still questions to be answered. But at this point, save that for another saga. It’s time for answers and I don’t want confusion or questions in a saga finale. This is not LOST.

Gotta admit I loved when savathun was this big mysterious villain causing havoc to the Sol system with strikes and other entities under her command

You did miss a few imo: • Who is that unnamed disciple that questioned what the final shape is? • What has Lysander been up to? (We know he sent us gifts recently, but we have no clue to what he's been doing in his absence) • What is the extent of Clovis Bray's reach? ("They know" is the last thing we heard from Clovis, but having been inside of Rasputin is it possible that he retained information on how to make himself another body to inhabit?) • There's that bit of Soteria in Neomuna that we still haven't contacted fully • Are there any precursors who survived that held a different position than the witness? (I forget the names atm but you talked about the three different views in your precursor video recently). •Egregor (or however you spell it) still hasn't been fully explored, Eris and Drifter have been studying it secretly still if I'm not mistaken •Riven posing as Mara to crow is gonna have future implications, was that a last move or was she lying about her last wish? •There's that Stasis planet the drifter visted, and the floating thing in his tank that have unanswered questions. tl;dr Destiny still has a lot of mystery, there's a lot of implications that we don't know the answers to

Questions like this are exactly why I absolutely PRAY that the Episodes present more questions than they do answers. I want to head into a possible Destiny 3 someday knowing that there’s still something of a threat to head towards. There’s a lot of large cosmic questions that still need to be answered - and killing the Witness won’t suffice.

i feel like nezarec should have been saved for after final shape, or shouldnt have been a disciple altogether as turned into something else

It honestly wouldn’t surprise me if during the episodes we get some small subtle teases to something we only hear at thst moment I don’t see this as we’re running out I see it as possibility for more mysteries

I think it’s okay for mysteries to be solved. We lived with them for 10 years. We experienced them. They don’t have to last forever. Forever doesn’t make something beautiful. I will say that I think they should have already been front loading a few more mysteries for whatever comes next. Right now we really only have the vex and the 9 left. They have a huge opportunity to introduce new aliens as well (which would have been nice to do a long ass time ago, or at least add new enemy types) I don’t want to fight only hive, fallen, vex, and cabal for 10 more years. Not happening. It would also be nice to leave sol sometime. Perhaps we could visit that horrific cold world that drifter came to. The one that probably lobotomized his ghost and had these creatures of darkness in. One idea I’ve had is a being that survived one of the witnesses genocides against its species. And it spent the last millennia pursuing it and only coming across the graves of other civilizations, absorbing whatever was left into its whole to amass their collective rage. Idk, could be a cool idea, could be a dumb idea.

I think at this point in the saga, questions need to be answered and answered properly.

Byf, a major plotline is about to end. I think putting a hold on mysteries until we get some context relative answers would be pretty great, and a better thing overall

I agree with everyone in the comments saying this but: we literally need the exact opposite. We have so, so many dangling threads, things only confirmed or hinted at in real-world collector's edition lore books from recent years, or singular weapon tabs that keep a mystery alive. It is good that they have worked to try and wrap some of them up in recent months/the past year or two, like the whole TAOX = OXA Machine situation (even THIS isn't 100% certain or clear on information), but there are just so many more.

To me, the main story needs answers like the conclusion to Return of the Jedi. It's the main story and it has a decisive conclusion. But mysteries in Destiny are more akin to background stories in Star Wars like Rogue One or Andor. That's how I see how mystery can fit into D2.

Dataminers. That is where the mystery went.

The nine & the aphelion need to be explained further.

I think my biggest upset in recent history regarding the lack of mysteries was lightfall. We all we just stumbled across a pre Golden Age city. That should have an unbelievable wealth of knowledge of the history of Earth before the collapse and it doesn't seem like we got very much of that at all. Of course I know that we already have a good amount of history, for example the Bray tech facilities, But I'm talking more about dates of things and actual recorded history rather than just things that continue to spill over posts collapse.

more mystery seems like a weird thing to ask for at the finale. this is supposed to be when we finally learn everything. there are plenty of small things there won't be enough time to get around to, and if Destiny actually has any life left in it that stuff can come up in the episodes, as well as introducing new stuff.

My friends are happy about into the light, because there's another friend who hasn't played since vanilla d2 and he's coming back for into the light and the final shape. I already made up my mind that the final shape is my last dlc for destiny, been buying the year content edition since beyond light and this year I'll just buy the base dlc.

I… don’t know if I agree fully. Destiny is really at its end right now as far as we know. There are lot of questions they still need to answer but I think you even said it best in a previous video “now is not the time to be posing more questions, but answering the ones we already have.” The game is nearing its closing chapters, the time for mystery was everything before this. It’s sad, but I think this is exactly what they should be doing. Maybe I’m not fully understanding the concerns being brought up, but I think… this is where we are now. It really, really sucks, but maybe there is no one after The Witness. Maybe this is it?

the biggest question i want answered is what is the traveller its that simple we are going inside the traveller WHAT IS IT is it a person controlling it is it an AI is there more than one traveller what is its purpose and what will it do once we have vanquished the witness if that is answered i will be happy also i want to know how Elsie fits into all of this why did the traveller choose her

Just because the game is in a "good place" doesn't mean that it can't get better. Constructive criticism should always be welcome if people want to continue to grow and learn

Why make more mysteries immediately when there are still so so many that are unexplored and unanswered right now? ESPECIALLY after Lightfall repeated D1 Vanillas Cardinal Sin in explaining absolutely nothing! Nah I’d rather say *More Answers Please!* There’s endless mystery in Destiny. What it really needs is telling an even slightly semi cohesive story with a proper beginning, middle and end. This really isn’t an issue if Destiny is, and will continue after The Final Shape…. I don’t even really know why this video was even made? Honestly this feels like preemptive criticism for something that may or may not actually become a real problem far down the line. Plus, the perception that “D1 was so much more mysterious and interesting” isn’t necessarily true, even to a detrimental degree. The reason why D1 felt much more mysterious is simply because barely anything was explained or explored. This was a condition of the Staten Cht lore being removed and a new story and Lore being scrapped together very quickly. Basically, D1 relied on mystery boxes with no pre-planned explanation like JJ Abrams. If new mysteries are made any time soon, they need to have its answers planned out in a satisfying way ahead of time. Not everything needs to be definitively explained but empty mysteries with no exploration or plans are unsatisfying to me.

One mystery I’m curious about is the origin of the Traveler, where did it come from originally? And given that it was referred to as a machine, who or what created it?

Personally, I think the mystery of it all is over. The only mystery that we have left to solve is the Vex Homeworld. We, as guardians, are nearing the end of our journey. So it does make sense that we are nearing the end of our journey. Though I would like to see the Manhattan Nuclear Zone. As well as other parts of the US.

RIP to all the strong guardians we lost on the way to confronting the Witness🙏🏽

I love whenever we get to see Byf's D1 warlock. Looks sick.

I’m still here because of the story. Your videos have kept me up to date on what is going on and I absolutely adore your content. It’s such a wild thing to sit back and say wow you have been a constant in all of our lives for nearly 10 years…wild. It’s been so wonderful.

I'm on board with byf on most of the talk... but to me what makes me feel unexciting is that the witness somehow somewhere during the last year started to lose that feeling "intimidating" I feel that we are a little bit rushing in too fast to finish the story of this amazing journey... which makes me sad

I miss the mystery we had back in the D1 days so bad. I miss your old style videos too like your original books of sorrow videos. To this day those videos for me are your best work. That and your whopping Complete Story of Destiny video. Dynasty was really good too.

I think the biggest thing for me is answering 10yr long questions with TFS but raising new, separate but important questions at the same time. I am happy to be getting answers but I agree with Byf with the “where do we go from here” question. I have always loved mystery in Destiny. The first time I landed on Venus and the first time I entered The Archive were INCREDIBLE moments of wonder for me that stick with me to this day. I understand that that level of mystery is much harder to attain in a universe that’s been present for a decade rather than at its inception but I would absolutely adore lore that leads to that sort of moment again.

There are some smaller stories that I want to see more of. How are The Last City and it's people doing and how are they feeling about all of this? Are we going to learn more about Encelidus from Cayde's last words? How have the Factions faired in the wilds now that they aren't part of the City anymore? Whats going on with Vance, if hes still alive? The big mysteries are still plenty for me but I'm also super curious when it comes to the small stuff.

Not only are we reaching the part of the narrative that I’d liken to ‘the bumping crunch’ ie. where things come to a close and loose ends get tied, but also there’s SO much existing lore in the game it could sustain me for ages. The same way a new season may not seem like much content to an active player, someone who is less so may have the expansion’s campaign, former seasons, exotic missions, dungeons and raids to catch up to. I am so far only fully read up on the central narrative. I’ve never read Inspiral, Marasenna, Truth to Power. I’ve never seen the books of sorrow This is where the lore is condensed. I haven’t even begun to really consolidate the various lore found in exotics, guns and their flavour text, geographical details and so on. It’s so much sometimes I rediscover things like the Sunbreaker Titan order, the relationship between Eriana and Wei Ning, stuff about city factions (just look at the skimmer. So many people won’t even know the importance of the concordat) So for most people, there’s plenty to sustain us. Keep in mind you’ve been helping us explore lore since the very beginning. It is GOING to feel like there’s no more mystery because every story, bit of evidence, and even speculative thought has been examined by you and your peers on the most massive figurative caulk board I will ever dream of. You know what links to what, when, why, and how. And the only things that aren’t on the board are the frayed ends of a rope that connects a current story that has an open end to a story yet to be written as it’s still being devised by the devs as they decide how to drop everyone the next big puzzle piece or segment of said story.

Sometimes I feel there's no real pleasing the lore community. This last year, we've been (justifiably) upset that bungie was just refusing to dispell mysteries, refusing to answer big, important questions as we approach the end of the light vs dark story. Bungie seemed to have heard, and started to scramble to answer those questions. Even if some of those answers were somewhat unsatisfying, they've been answered. The stage is complete, it is set for the finale that is coming in lightfall. Why are we now looking for new questions to being asked? Wasnt that one of the biggest complaints about lightfall, that it was a campaign of nothing but questions in the penultimate expansion of the saga? Personally, I do not think this is the time in the slightest to introduce more mysteries. Now is the time to play out the final act to the story we have nearly all the supporting answers to. We know what the witness is, what it wants, how it intends to achive it, its history, what it's goal means for us, and that we need to stop it. That's enough, and the question of what happens next is so broad and open-ended that it could work to serve as a knowledge level reset for the destiny lore as a whole.

I agree that it feels like we haven't really had any groundwork laid for future mysteries in the same way that D1 would set up stuff like the Hive Triumvirate / the Iron Lords / etcetera. But while I think part of that is just the nature of the game paying off that build-up going into Final Shape, it's also due to a shift in how the world is presented to us? D1 lore was obsessed with dropping Capital-Letter-Proper-Nouns with little to no expansion on what the concept and characters being introduced meant. Over time, D2 shifted away from that to giving us more context on the individual lives of characters. Hawthorne needling Zavala about letting her join the Titans for Guardian Games, Niik building a relationship with Amanda and coping with losing her by saving her story in House Light's Servitor, Saint and Osiris' relationship before and after Savathun. It's become a much more character-oriented style of writing, as opposed to the foundational myth building that was so much of D1's bread and butter. Your mileage may vary on which you prefer, but honestly, I think building out lore through the lens of the characters we interact with and have come to know over the past ten years makes for a much more satisfying form of storytelling... but that said, I do agree that it would be nice to have some more foundational lore set for future plots as we go into Final Shape and the episodes. Though there are still plenty of mysteries within existing lore to answer and build out as well. Eramis returning to Riis to find Athrys and her clutch, what the Bray family's up to and what their dynamic with Clovis looks like in a post-Rasputin world, whether we're setting up for a Hive civil war between a Light-empowered Savathun and a severely weakened Xivu Arath, all of the loose threads left over from Warlord's Ruin for Fikrul and the Scorn... it still feels like there's stories to be told within the lore we already have on hand, so I'm not terribly worried about Bungie's ability to deliver answers (and further questions) as we come to the end of one saga and the start of another. For real, though, we just left Clovis in that Big Head on Europa after he tried to replace the Traveler? Bro? What are you doing in there even???

I completely agree with this! One of the biggest allures of the original Destiny to me was the mystery of everything. I spent hours just roaming around on Venus and wondering about the vex, Ishtar collective, the old colonies, etc. Sometimes it's nice to have stuff that isn't fully flushed out. It's one of the reasons why I wish they had never introduced the witness.

I mean, we really still have no clue what the Traveler really is. Unless we get very definitive answers in Final Shape, its origins are still suspect and I’m still not confident that the Witness is truly its karmic opposite - there is still something else out there. That and the question of the Vex.

I’d love for Bungie to Explore: -Skirra, the Watcher, that was mentioned like once at the end of Season of the Splicer -The Aphelion -The Potential Connection between the Hive and Cabal that was briefly mentioned in the Lightfall CE Lore (I Kinda see a Greece/Rome vibe) -The Cult of Nezarec

The way i see it, Destiny 1 vanilla was all mystery. All questions, no answers. And over the years, there has been more answers than additonal questions, and thats ok. We still know very little about the universe outside of the solar system, and bungie can totally tap into that to restore the feeling of overwhelming mystery.

My best gaming feat was predicting the red war back in D1. And I guess almost being world first for heroic Oryx was pretty cool too

Completely agree - I've had the same feeling and thought for a while now. In fact, I was a bit disappointed that all the guesses about Elsie Bray that we've had for years have been confirmed. Answering that was equivalent to closing a whole chapter of the notebook full of questions, and I don't think we got many other mysteries in return for that (unless I am forgetting something). Sure, there were some interesting things we learned about other timelines (e.g. Drifter's final fate - I think he turned himself into an Exo) but those were other timelines to which we have no connection and which we will likely not encounter in the future.

I'm probably one of the few lore heads who uses the environment to ask little questions, that could matter very little or have an incredibly large impact. For example while running RON or VOTD I always ask myself what inspires the witnesses architecture within the pyramids, is it some sort of represent of its abstract view on existence. I agree with you mostly though on the amount of questions being asked, but on the other side of that coin we still have so many things we don't know, and as an example of that I can pull out the Nine or rivens clutch of eggs that we recently saved. As a long time viewer, and fellow lore nerd and overall speculator, I'd love to just converse with you about all the little ideas that pop into my head when I play destiny, because as you said it inspires, and brings a sense of wonder so regardless of what's known or not I always ask questions. Thank you for your work Byf, and see you starside!

I agree with you, I want more story and mystery. I play this game for the story and triumphs, just completing every in the game really. Been at it since D1 beta. I think you covered everything from the Vex to the Nine. One thing I would like to see though is a more in depth dive into the Dregens and the dark/evil guardians. I think that can be done now , seeing how they incorporated the lucent hive, we could have a scenario where we’re doing an activity and run across a Dregen to fight. I would however like to see Bungie go down a bit of a darker path in the story and mysteries. I remember doing that mission for the drifter and at the end seeing the shadow of the guardian on the rock from being hit with a golden gun , then hearing the radio message. I thought that was so dark and awesome. Really hyped me up.

It's crazy to me that when we talk about the mystery in destiny nobody mentions the light and the darkness themselves. What actually are they? Are they some kind of sentient Gods or just forces of nature? Where did they come from? Can they be destroyed or reborn?

100% agree. The world feels empty now. I feel that the world having less questions is really obvious when you look at a lore channel’s video list. Back in the day at least 50% of the videos were something obscure that the average player didn’t know about. But know it’s hard to find a lore video that makes me even ask any questions. They all seem to give answers

It’s funny you say the lore got you to stick around. Cause YOUR what brought me back also back during D1 watching your lore vids is what made me REALLY want to play again and here I am all these years later.

This seasons story definitely laid the groundwork for post FS storylines, with the mystery of what will become of Rivens eggs? Big standout from just this seasons story alone. Plenty of things very much infront of us asking where does this go? Xivu, Clovis, the Vex are still enigmatic, etc. There's oodles of unknowns. There have been plety of decent answers, and in the case of WQ amazing ones. With FS it's different from answering just questions. They have to stick the landing, endings are hard to get right. I hope they've nailed it.

There’s still a ton of mysteries in D2 and with the understanding of the Witness’s origin there are a ton more yet to be written. We’re just point of where asking more questions would impact the pacing of the story

I really miss the mystique of vanilla D1. I've never felt like my imagination was captured in the same way since the start of D2.

Honestly - when I play it's usually just "I shut off my brain and shoot the stuff" - but I'm happy to have more mystery added - as someone else also mentioned - I wanna know more about the Aphelion. All the lore I learn from your videos, so more content where you ask and/or answer questions is always good - though, it's always nice to have more of a clear view of what something is or what it does when it's sat infront of you (i.e. The Veil)

The mystery died for me post Witch Queen. I’d would to have loved to explore more on Europa, Mars, Venus, Titan. I alway loved the element of urban exploration that D1 had and some of D2. That’s where the mystic was for me. Savathun’s throne world and Neomuna always felt empty. I would have loved to really get into Rhulk’s pyramid or dive into the Veil containment area without some game ending event.

You pose an interesting point. I still am excited for into the light though. It's a nice change a pace at this critical time, but I think this Is an important discussion to have.

@6:40 And then we got Season of the Splicer, my personal favorite, where the Legendary Saint-14 and equally Legendary Mithrax were backed into a corner by a bunch of red bars only to be "saved" by Ikora's team-killing Nova Bomb.

They never even explained what's in the Deep Stone Crypt don't hold your breath (The raid was on Morning Star).

Yes I agree that there should be more mystery within the lore of destiny. I actually think a ton of that mystery resides in the written lore from items. But for me what always captured my attention was how we get to see things in cutscenes but still left with questions to push forward in finding out more. The dialogues we get now in the seasonal content are okay, but never have i felt more intrigued than the cutscenes we got in the vanilla story of both D1 and D2. They both gave a sense of mystery to the world of destiny and gave a sense of gravitas to The Guardian; us.

honestly my top wanted storyline for post final shape is the retaking of earth. the lore we got on the new skateboard made me really curious what the concordat have been up to.

Nah, the mystery is where my love for lore in D1 and how I found you and Sir Wallen then Myelin later on. Mystery makes the lore so much more appetizing.

@mynameisbyf, have you done any videos or thought of for House Stone and Chelchis the Kell of Stone during the whirlwind?

Definitely an interesting video to drop, given that when lightfall dropped, you had a huge uproar over new things being added with not enough answers lol. BUT I want assume that you are referring to bits of mystery that can be hinted at while also putting a close to the ones we have had for years, which I agree could be nice. Just don't be surprised if some devs are left scratching their heads over this change of direction from you byf lol.

I understand where you’re coming from with this. We are really zeroing in on the Witness and The Final Shape, and it might feel like they are leaving other stories on the back burner. Though at the same time, I think we’ve always l wondered what is going on with many other story threads that don’t have an answer. Story lines from seasons that end with questions and that’s it. We ask for more answers as we move to the next story. But those stories were never our objective like stopping the Witness is. Something we’ve also had so little understanding of. It’s also the feeling of a story coming to an end, one we don’t want to end. Like the Infinity Saga of the MCU. Sure, we still had some questions, but the thing we were all there for years and years was over. Complete.

Warframe is a good example of how to keep the mystery intact even when somethings explained

I need Byf to do more impressions of destiny channels because that Aztecross was staggering

Byf, you're my hero just for adding a Dune reference. Dune was star wars before their was Star Wars. Not only that, but like, space messiah, ya know? Anyways, thank you.

Gotta be honest Byf, this video felt a bit…unnecessary? This feels like some sort of pre-criticism for something that may or may not be an issue after the saga of the light and dark is wrapped up. This feels like a video that would be great if after 2 or 3 episodes it feels like there is no mystery or wonder left in the universe. At this point, at the end of this saga, as you yourself said, it’s all about answers.

I absolutely agree that mystery is paramount, I don't agree though with the insinuation that we are at a point where we are running out of it any time soon. There's still so very little we actually know in the grand scheme of everything. And a lot of answers we normally get to things are largely vague, albeit intentionally so.

Thanks for the vid byf

hey Byf when are you planning to release your full story of Destiny up to Final Shape video Video

I see both sides to this. On the one hand, like you said, additional mysteries provide additional avenues of exploration. I no longer play the game and have no stake in the matter, but off the top of my head, Destiny has the following topics they could explore: Rebuilding Earth/the Last City with Sloane; Reclamation of Torobatl; Reclamation of Rees; Infiltrating and destroying the Vex network for good, not likely but they’ll always be a persistent threat and one which can be scaled; Time travel through Darkness powers to see, not alter, the Golden Age and the Collapse; The future of Clovis Bray and Braytech Industries; Savathun’s future; Some kind of event involving the Distributary and the Nine; Return of the Concordat and the other factions; etc. There are easily a hundred different story threads they can offer which could continue this story in perpetuity, none of which require adding to the mystery at this particular point in time and none of which require much mystery at all. Take the Reclamation of Rees example. We know exactly what happened, the mystery is what Rees looks like and who will take charge to reclaim it. Will it be Mithrax, Eido, or Eramis? Will the Coalition join the fight or will Caiatl head straight back to Torobatl? That’s a mystery, but one which can’t be answered prior to the end of Final Shape because it would reveal who will make it to the other side of this conflict. On the flip side of this debate, we have the obvious question of whether or not Destiny will actually continue. Other channels like Bellular are reporting the rumors that all the execs at Bungie are planning to cut and run after the DLC and the episodes drop. There seems to be very little hope in the game’s future past the saga of Light and Dark from within Bungie itself. Marathon seemed to be a massive misstep and I think they’re going to pay massively for it. And so, not having deeper mysteries prepared in the lore before the end of the saga pretty much signals that the game will end with a “neat little bow” ending where we just see or read about the Reclamations of Rees and Torobatl, the ongoing struggle of the Vex, and the future of the Vanguard and Earth. They need these future mysteries. That said, I think these mysteries do already exist and I’ll give you one perfect example of this. Unless we find out in Final Shape, there is still the question of where the Traveler came from. Is the Traveler the Light or a wielded of the Light? We know the Witness, Darkness, and the Deep are three separate entities, so why can’t the Traveler be two: the Traveler and the Light? If it is two separate entities, we won’t need the Traveler going forward and it may well die at the conclusion of Final Shape. Personally, I think we will discover that our missing Precursor is within the Traveler, perhaps the Traveler itself. Perhaps the name, Traveler, is very literal but not a description of the Orb. The Orb itself being a source of light would make sense and it being a ship would explain the machine aspect, but not who or what is controlling it. And, even if all of that is 100% true, it still doesn’t explain where the hell the Traveler came from. We know it existed before the Precursors as did the Veil. That means something came before them, something that created them as primal forces in the world, and something that could still be out there. There doesn’t need to be any other mysteries so long as that mystery persists. And if it does, if that’s the great mystery of Destiny, then all the others will only serve to get us to that point and reveal more about the universe. Unfortunately, I doubt we will get that far and I don’t even want to blame Bungie, Activision, or Sony here. I don’t think it’s their fault. It’s the fault of every other company running rampant with the live service model and choking what benefit exists in the model for the sake of a quick profit. Don’t get me wrong, Bungie and Destiny have absolutely abused the trust we put into them by removing previous content and charging full game release prices or more for a year of content, but it isn’t their fault the live service model is dying. They did it well. The model just can’t continue. It’s like Marvel. Did anyone else notice the coinciding of the end of the Infinity Saga, the launch of Disney+, and the sharp decline in Marvel’s quality? I know a lot of people did. Disney+, and most of the other streaming services, are just live service models. We all have them, and the burnout is very real. Destiny is just primed to be the latest victim

Random question Byf I know you a busy man but I have to ask: 1.) Now that we know that the Witness is more than one being combined could the Shadowkeep ending cutscene where it says, “we are not your enemy, we are not your friend, we are your salvation” be referring to itself since it is more than one being? Because back then I and possibly many others just assumed it said “we” referring to itself AND the black fleet? Something to ponder I suppose. Also, 2.) when the Witness cut those Guardians and their ships the way it did do you think that could be a “watered down” version of it making an object into its Final Shape? Only on a small scale because it has not obtained the power needed to do it on a grander scale(although it seems like it is practicing this technique inside the traveler according to the teaser trailer). Hope I aroused curiosity, I just love this game really lol

ok i have a question what happened to the Phoenix that orxy had taken is it out there or what ???

Still watching, but I do miss the mysteries we had through the grimoire cards, the world quests (in D1 AND D2), and flavor text. I feel like those things have been lost somewhere around Shadowkeep as the story began being more streamlined.

I've been feeling this same sentiment for a while, and I'm unsure if it's just that I've become so familiar with almost every portion of the lore over the years, if it's just the nature of approaching the end of the saga, if its a combination of the two or even if there's more mystery out there than we realize at the moment.

I'm glad we had a swell of questions getting answered over the last few years, but I REALLY miss the days when so much of Destiny was a mystery. When it felt like I didn't know what was around the next corner. When the Queen's Wrath (whatever that means) would show up in the Tower to offer us bounties in exchange for weapons, and some tentacle-face sold a rocket launcher with a wolf on it for that currency you get in Nightfalls. It probably won't be that good anyway..... I'm glad that Destiny got a firmer set of feet under it, and I'm glad that over the years the story has been fleshed out and we've known a lot more about the various things that used to just be mysteries. But I miss those times when I didn't know why it's consequential that a Shrine to some guy named Oryx was on the moon, and that it might be a bad thing if it called out to him.....

There are a lot of directions they can go. Some examples: The Vex (origin and character expansions possibly as they have so much potential ) The nine Xivu arath and her journey to revenge on us The complete workings of darkness (as we know all forms of the light void arc and solar we still have a very patchy overview of the workings of the darkness) Where was the origin point of the traveler, veil and other paracausal artifacts More mysteries behind braytech and other golden age organisations We even have that incredibly mysterious reference of the Ishtar collective within the black garden(starcrossed) This is only a few I can think of There’s a lot of mystery and questions I still have about the lore of destiny

Hi! Any info on a video covering the whole lore up to tfs?

One cool thing that would happen ("I personally don't see it happening but") is that we could have a small faction of the hive that's like we want to help the vanguard and the guardians

It’s definitely time to start giving answers in terms of stuff for the light and dark saga. And questions will definitely need to be an asked once we start getting lore and other things for the episodes once we start playing those. We don’t need another Lightfall situation.

Ideally, The Final Shape will answer maybe not all, but at least some of the questions we’ve been holding onto for years now, as the finale of a 10-year journey, but it will also bring up some new and unexpected questions for us to think about, either potentially being answered in future stories or being left as a mystery.

I think the mystery of the earlier days of destiny 2 was really what brought me into the game. It's probably just personal preference but the reveals with the witness just arent exciting.

I think I'd put it like this, and it's weird cuz I was thinking about it the other day. Lore channels used to be a lot more about speculation. Nowadays it's more about just reading the lore books to people. Feels like we lost more of that mystery when D2 came around and then when the Witness became the primary villain. That said, we're getting to almost a decade of lore in this game. Having more answers than questions at the peak of the mountain is to be expected.

Whilst I enjoy getting answers, I loved the feeling of mystery in D1, it was one of the best parts of it in my opinion.

I'd be interested in learning more about the 9 personally. I've always kinda felt they are moving everything around from the shadows.

A new enemy faction would introduce TONS of new mysteries. The drifter's story has a shit ton of mysteries that could be explored. Also as you mentioned, the nine has so much potential

I'm with you on this one. I recognize that D2 is a vastly superior game to D1 in terms of gameplay, buildcrafting, narrative, activites, etc etc. But there's always something nostalgic about D1 because the world of Destiny was so new and we didn't know anything about it. There was a sense of mystery and wonder to exploring the game and learning more about the universe. We're 10 years into this franchise, those of us who are still around know what Destiny is at this point. For the most part when it comes to loot and activities, we know what to expect generally. The worldbuilding, the lore, and the stories are the things that can still provide us with that flavour of novelty, and I really hope Bungie leans into that post-Final Shape.

wholeheartedly agree with you, don’t get me wrong i’m very high in this franchise as a whole right now but I do really miss that air of mystery that this game used to have for me. i hope the episodes to even the conclusion of final shape open major threads that reintroduce that mystery for me. thanks always for making such incredible videos.

We are facing the SAME problem as in D1, which is lore stuck behind text instead of experience. Except now that the text can be read in-game, they can create these stories en masse and say “it’s in the game”. Then the stories talk about characters we know, and the ones we see aren’t as interesting as in the writing.

Michael Straczynski’s Babylon 5 comes to mind for me. Seasons 2-4 have some of the best story, lore, questions and eventual answers. Characters that drive the story. A mystery we are hanging on the edge of our seats to see the answer. Destiny has had questions that have lingered since D1 and have yet to be answered. Many mysteries that have yet to get answers. Honestly, the Eliksni Kell of Kell story should have been done before Final Shape or revealed leading into the finale. My fear is not if there will be mysteries left, it is whether or not there is any desire, drive, love, passion, to tell really good stories. This world has lots of potential to tell amazing and impactful stories, the question is if there is anyone left willing to go outside the box to answer our questions. I can only hope they do.

I don't disagree about the necessity of mystery, but I feel like there is plenty still there and left to explore. Just in terms of big mysteries there is plenty within the Vex, the Nine, and the Winnower. I know I would like to further explore the Cabal and others races existing within them. Would love to see more on Nezarec, especially away from the Witness influence.

i wonder what that song at the end is, it sounds quite nice

Yeah, I been kinda thinking this for a while. Ever since Witch Queen when we finally got a (mostly) full understanding of the Hive and the Pyramid ships, I've been thinking that a lot of the mystery and wonder had faded. I think they will pull through in the end, because a big mystery is just, where the fuck do we go after this, and that had infinite possibilities.

I like to think that maybe after the Witness has been dealt with, we are given reason to chase after any remaining disciples of the Witness hiding out among the universe, in which the path that we take on that journey leads to new mysteries and new story beats that can sprout into perhaps the next saga, or just a bunch of ready 'buds' that can be expanded on later (in a way, almost like 'restocking' the unknown lore shelf, so to speak)

Your comment on players sticking around for the wonder, ideas, and basically the story is why I kept an active World of Warcraft subscription for as long as I have. And as the wonder has gone down, even as gameplay improvements happened, the active subscriptions continued to decline. I know its not the sole reason, its way more complext than that, but can't say it isnt a contributing factor.

something my friends who've quit Destiny like to complain about is that it really has lost it's mystique, and it's general touch. They loved the game because of how it felt like they were truly scrounging through the ruins of civilization, and that the Last City was an anomalous beacon of hope to the fraction of humanity that thrives within it. And i really felt that- i LOVE D! mars, and the Helas Basin, and the ruins of the Arcology on Titan. I LOVED the alien wilderness of Io, and to an extent, Nessus, even if i've grown resentful that it still exists with nothing to do there as an epitome of wasted beauty. i feel like the narrative has, climactically, stopped painting in those finer strokes and focuses a little too much for my tastes on the broad strokes. Neomuna really just... doesn't hit it for me. the content there is forgettable, sure, but the atmopshere is just a little much.

Personally I agree, Destiny definitely is at its best when it has questions looming within itself and it’s outer stories that are not focused on in the game. For example my favorite lore is regarding the Iron Lords and how they died. When I finally got my answer several years later in the Season of the Seraph, I was happy (mad at Rasputin definitely) but also disappointed that the mystery was over. Now my current curiosity is the Dark Age, so places like Warlord’s Ruin or just places on Earth that we get to visit, it’s the level designs that basically encourage me to ask questions that keep me hooked. Of course, I’m well aware that we may not focus much on Earth’s ruins because they don’t move the actual story along. But if they do need something to next focus on, I’d suggest the Nine or the Vex, cuz they really raised attention by showing us the Ishtar Collective logo in that secret chamber…

Thanks for addressing the doom and gloom as of late in the beginning sir. I am a long time follower of yours and I understand that the sentiment around the near future for D2 isn't good atm, but hearing about it so much recently has impacted my desire to keep playing, maybe that's my fault. Thanks for always trying to provide ideas to make everything the best it can be, and thanks for all the awesome work you and yours put in for all of our enjoyment. o7

I agree on the release of more lore, particularity with the Units, Vehicles, bosses and NPC weapons of D2, and with the return of Grimoires in ITL update I hope there are those pertained to that.

God, thank you Whilst yeah, a lot of questions should be answered and wrapped up, there should be so much more mystery introduced, some things left either unanswered or if explained, leading to more questions. I get a lot of people who plan on quitting post-final shape just want everything answered so they can get that closure of everything, but both for an ongoing narrative as well as keeping a mythos engaging to look back on, we need mystery. We still have mystery such as the enterity of the Aphelion, what exactly did the black armoury families encounter during the collapse? What was weilding the Winterbite? Hell, we still know little to nothing about the traveller and the veil themselves, only that they seemingly utilise or are the source of the light and the darkness respectively.

My thought process, or somewhat of a theory I've made based on videos watched from you...is that we will die in the Final Shape and be resurrected at the very beginning or sometime in the future. You made a video about the "Corridor of Time" and us Guardians possibly dying at the end of Final Shape. Hopefully to be revived by 'The Gardener'. I've been thinking about how the story will progress after the Final Shape and if it will continue in Destiny 2 or be within a new Destiny 3. I came to my own conclusion upon watching your videos that we will be resurrected, but into a different time. It could be during the Golden Age, where it came to an end and the Traveler first appeared with the Ghosts. We all finally learn and experience what the beginning of the Last City was like. Or possibly, sometime into the future, which I haven't given enough thought too. Either way I believe this is a fun idea to get behind.

I think i can agree with most people in this comment section. We are at the end of a saga. We know it is the end and would like some final answers on things. I think mystery has its point and time, but the community has made it clear that sometimes that mystery is more frustrating than not (hence more answers). Idk just my two cents especially following your other videos criticizing the fact that they do not highlight enough information from time to time.