This has been my understanding. Technically THAT'S what we should see the Cerritos and other "workhorse" or "followup" crews doing.

Also makes sense when viewing the Federation as a UN like organization where the function of Starfleet is closer to coast guard than navy.

"They're prims, better they should die as innocent noble savages, than be--" "Captain, data indicates they're survivors of the USS MakShitUp." "Quickly, let's save 'em!" "But they're on the Cardassian border.." "Screw 'em, they made their choice."

@@ts757arse But there are colonists in the outer Atlantic rim consisted of 13 planets who are unsatisfied with new taxes of the Terran Empire, they are even throwing Tarkalean tea from Space Dock "Boston".

@@stevangucu522 No space taxation without space representation! We will not be taxed to pay for your foreign Wars!

When Terrans fiiiiiirst at Heaven's command

And then in a act of self sabotage, Terra succeeds from the rest of the Empire in a TREXIT.

I think the federation is just the Terran Empire that has developed the Rule of Plausible deniability to a ART FORM. It is a Terran Empire that is not honest with itself or you.

Actually, I was thinking of the Genesis plot as very much in keeping with the Prime Directive, at least as far as the Federation Science Council was concerned, the way they insisted on absolutely zero life. They had at least that ethical constraint, if not a legal one. We also might consider that Federation colonization efforts are at least *intended* not to mess the places up for other potential intelligent life, wherever you draw any lines. (Also, there's the simple fact that fertile planets won't *stay* un-interefered with if just the Federation avoids it. There needs to be a presence out there in order to protect *anything* from anyone else that might be less considerate.

Starfleet, not Star Fleet...

@@OllamhDrab Any colonization efforts will mess it up for some later intelligence. For one, they aren't going to leave as long as the world is viable. And the easily gathered resources would likely be used up, leaving no path of advancement for a new race.

@@icecold9511 Actually it's highly unlikely Federation colonists would mine out all the copper and flint and stuff from the surface, .... they don't need to, say. they have replicators, not smelters. The easily acccessible stuff is on the *way* to civilization, and early on, not something tranplanting these advanced technologies on need or would even find efficient to use. Federation tech means they can be a lot less intrusive or exploitive. Also bear in mind that inmany cases, what's habitable for humanoids 'now' may well not stay that way for billions more years unless someone *keeps* it that way, depending on stellar type, geology, space hazards, etc. A lot of the colonies we see out there are indeed ludicrously small and low-impact for there to be a whole planet left otherwise uninhabited....

@@OllamhDrab They clearly still need mined resources. And I've always seen replicator as to magical as presented. Creating matter from energy requires insane amount of energy. 1 gram = 50 Megaton bomb. So I see it more as taking matter and changing it. But even with magical technology, the colonists would still be blocking any development

Star trek did a decent job of it by before they decided to milk nostalgia with the Kelvin timeline and discovery. Honestly it makes sense for a policy like the prime directive to change over the decades. Doctor who is more limited because it is always partially set in modern times.

@@jonnnney Yeah but with the continuity of the Doctor always being the same person but a different body, they suddenly retconned that the Doctor was always a woman in a man's body. The level of bullshit they crammed into that series over 3 series is hilarious. Doctor Who is worse than Star Trek because the timeline is over decades not centuries

@@Excalibur01 My understanding with Dr. Who, is like the Trill symbiont. The Human/Trill body is just the vessel, the spirit/soul/symbiont is the actual 'person'. So, the Doctor, is probably doesn't have a gender itself, but takes on the gender of the host.

@@Locutus That's a recent interpretation.

@@Excalibur01 Nothing was retconned to make the Doctor a "woman in a man's body". They built on a decades-old idea that Time Lords do change between incarnations, the show makes a point that Time Lords sometimes see their many lives as being different people. All the new series did was introduce the idea that their sex can change too, and thus the already fluid identity of the Doctor can include ideas of gender fluidity. Basically, the Doctor has always had a very complicated, nuanced, and fluid identity. It's just now sometimes they can change sex, too.

For the Emperor! Charge Guardsmen! Fire those lasguns, and defend the Imperial Worlds from the forces of the Heretic, the Xenos, and the forces of Chaos! Well said.

My opinion about colonization and the Federation is as follows. It makes me wonder why they have not perfected the Genesis wave. Then they would just have to go to those planets that are Barren and make them plush and ready for colonization. What are your thoughts about the Federation perfecting The Genesis Project and using that what do you think that??

@@mikeshriver4282 Full implementation of Genesis would spark one helluva arms race with the Klingon Empire and Romulan Star Empire. Genesis will not be seen as a tool for colonization but a weapon of war. The Klingons were a few steps away from acquiring Genesis in Search for Spock. What's a few more attempts between the Klingons and of course, the intelligence services of the Romulans. Genesis would undoubtedly make the Federation very powerful militarily. Powerful enough that it may get the Klingons and Romulans to ally against the far larger threat of the Federation.

Your information in this video is incorrect especially when dealing with the noninterference policy of the prime directive the reason that a prime directive exists and we do have one similar in our Navy is because the USS Enterprise which stands for United spaceship is literally an extension of the government for which they represent which will be vastly different from a Starship which is considered a private entity in have no contact a relation with a government or governing body get it

tbf existing lifeforms would have contaminated the experiment since protomatter would mutate that life instead, as seen by ST3's fast growing kirk

Overall well said. However I will point out that the microbe thing in st2 was because of the parameters of the Genesis experiment, not the prime directive. To prove the effectiveness they needed a fully sterile environment.

Starfleet, not Star Fleet.

Carol Marcus had problems with there being so much as a microbe on the spatial body on which the Genesis device was to be tested (much to the frustration of the Reliant crew).

Also, it is easy to a dead rock with a few microbes will never develop sentient life or even complex organisms.

I think I always understood this on a subconscious level but just couldn’t articulate it properly.

I don’t disagree.. I did an analysis of the various interpretations a long time ago

@@LoreReloaded "They're prims, better they should die as innocent noble savages, than be--" "Captain, data indicates they're survivors of the USS MakShitUp." "Quickly, let's save 'em!" "But they're on the Cardassian border.." "Screw 'em, they made their choice."

Yesn't - there are instances shown on screen where not following the prime directive have resulted in destruction on a planetary scale; usually involving giving less advanced civilizations technology they don't fully understand (such as antimatter) and accidents happening.

It is a very Utilitarian way of thinking, isn't it?

I have so many problems with the prime directive

Yeah. I can understand not interfering with internal politics and societal decisions. Simply letting an asteroid hit a planet or something is completely different. Saving them from that isn't taking their self determination.

"Join the dark side, we have cookies"

Also, the Börğ are a dark reflection of The Federation.

My understanding was that it was a detention facility _in_ New Zealand, not that the whole nation was a penal colony.

Jacinda Ardern has been uploaded into a computer mainframe, where she continues to rule...

You don't have to be overt and fly into the upper atmosphere in the largest ship possible announcing _"We come in peace"._ There was clandestine monitoring of near warp civilisations, such as that time Riker (not a long term trained specialist!!) was undercover and got discovered when he was taken to a hospital [did that nurse who had sex with Riker get pregnant? That'll mess up that civilisation, unless long term male birth control is available and Riker is prudent]. Having close monitoring of the culture, and encouraging a more desirable nature can be justified. It's not advisable staying hands off as Hitler wins and Earth becomes a cross between the Man in the High Castle and the Bat Aliens from the future alliance with the Nazis in the alternative timeline after the Xindi war. Because that means at some point in the future you will have to fight Nazis from Earth. Who knows? In the Mirror Universe perhaps the Vulcans watched Earth's very nasty tolitarian tenancies and did nothing *… how did that end up for the Vulcans?* As for Earth, making sure the Nazis don't win seems not only ethical, but smart from a self interest perspective. A little bit of transporter fun could accomplish that without evidence. And imagine is the Augments had won WW3? If the species is destroying it's ecosystem, a few undercover agents could give clues to (or be) scientist who invent clean energy or some other biosphere saving technology that's plausible for that tech level but beats out the current problematic polluting technology. And as for agents, recruiting a few locals, even taking them from childhood if they were otherwise going to die in a natural disaster (transporters are great) and raising them as "guardians" of their species is a viable option. Imagine if pre contact Earth was about to conduct a scientific experiment that could destroy the planet [the LHC was capable of creating a black hole, like the conspiracy nutters thought], time to clandestinely stop that. Really there should be a full outpost and a security fleet for any pre warp system, if only to protect them from a rogue Ferengi trader moving in. And having a permanent presence also means that once that civilisation reaches warp capability, you can invite them into your sphere of influence, instead of _a rival power_ adding them to their Empire. Especially if that species is formidable.

Here's what Ronald D Moore said about the time he was in a PD episode meeting with Gene (one of the few times they met). It really puts a lot into perspective. >There was a story Hans and Ricky had that we all got really excited about. It was about the Enterprise pulling up to some planet, and it was something like they were Nazis or some genocidal thing with an alien race destroying them. There was a Prime Directive issue, but Picard decided he had to intervene and stop this genocide from happening. Gene threw the story out and literally said that if the Enterprise came to a planet where they were shoving Jews into ovens, the Enterprise would have to leave. We freaked out and we were so upset. We were, like, I don't care about the Prime Directive. At a certain point this violates the whole concept of idealism. Kirk would never do that. Kirk violated the Prime Directive all the fucking time. We couldn't believe it. But Gene was running this much harder line on stuff like that. >He just wanted the show to be more about a utopia of the future rather than a TV series, really. When it allows people to sit by and watch as whole worlds are annihilated as the so called HEROES act like they're in the right for NOT saving people the PD can go fuck itself. I think my favorite break down was in TOS when they were on that colony ship heading into a sun or whatever and they without having to really debate it very quickly decide that interference may change people but it will give them the chance to adapt to that change. Then you have shit in TNG were Picard has to be basically strong armed into saving a little girl from firey death. And don't even get me going on Enterprise.

"They're prims, better they should die as innocent noble savages, than be--" "Captain, data indicates they're survivors of the USS MakShitUp." "Quickly, let's save 'em!" "But they're on the Cardassian border.." "Screw 'em, they made their choice."

Nizing

Wouldn't they have to make sure that no intelligent life on a planet/ moon before colonizing it !

What if a non-member civilisation wants to do that and tells the Feds to fuck off and mind their own business? Then warns them any attempt at interference will be considered an act of war. How far would the Feds go to protect a pre-warp civilisation? Or what if the planet was uninhabited but had great mineral wealth that this non-member civilisation could use to build fleets of warships?

@@Makeyourselfbig If the non member Fed species have already claimed and colonized a planet with pre warp native species for a period of time , starfleet -federation would have no choice but to not interfere and comply with the non member species demands. They already contaminated the natural development of the pre warp species. The only thing the Federation would do, is maybe, trying to establish diplomatic relations with that non member world species

@@cholodelrosari0543 TOS episode of worlds that had pre firearm civilizations, but had dilithium which the Klingons made contact with and inducing muskets to the population the wage war with their neighbors. Ran a few RPG of a four way contest/ fight over a low tech world that was just entering its early iron age classical period. City states building up for their third age of empires such as the Roman Republic. Outpost boarder town found a unusually crystal mine. Two different waring cultures one being city state and the other rural fort town. Some random home made alien race/ base off of D&D Star Wars) wants the crystals for themselves and two rivals Klingon houses going for the kill, then throw in the Feds. Basic we had enough people in our gaming shop to have six different playing group running at the same time. In short the rural natives behave more like the Klingons do, but the native imperialist have a more Greek out look. Also to toss up a few thing, around 80 years ago a Klingon ship crashed there due to an ion storm and created a bunch of regional legends. " orcs/ hobgoblins." End result, the Fed player group got caught up in the other player group Klingon house politics. Due to the multiple game master/ story teller forcing events and player/ PCs choices, the Fed human Captain broke the Prime Directive one too many times and was court marshaled out of Starfleet and his whole command crew and dozens of enlisted crew left with him. His Klingon captain character witness ( PC by another player for the pass dozen games ) spoke out for him and offer him his own D5 to command/ that was more than slightly out of date. Meta plot, the game laid down some back story leading up to ST VI:UDC As for the player's 13 & 14 yo daughters, they went to play half Klingons where one stayed with the KDF and the other ran off to the Romulans. As to say omg it was a twisted Star Wars game set in the ST universe is an under statement. We normal are used to running SW campaigns of Imp vs Reb groups but this was a different level.

Not 100% accurate. The Prime Directive, or at least the most popular general interpretation of it, in essence says that Starfleet crews must not get involved in the internal affairs or directly affect the evolution of any society, but most especially a pre-warp society. Exceptions can be made such as with the proto-Vulcans who tried to worship Picard where an accident committed by the crew while studying the race can lead to assistance in fixing the error. It isn't about the vessel, it's about the exposure.

Do you mean before it was called the CW?

China is capitalist, but doesn't have a _free market._ It practices state capitalism on a huge scale.

Especially modern day China

If you look at Trek, essentially "the final frontier" is explored, mapped, secured, patrolled, etc. by Starfleet and then, and only then, is it considered "safe" enough for Fed citizens to move in to colonize worlds, have pleasure cruises, etc. Starfleet also gets the 1st & 2nd contact rights, since they're on the frontier expanding the boundaries of the UFP. Now, you have your independent citizens, pirates, cargo haulers, merchants, and others who live on the edges of the frontier (or even inside established & patrolled UFP-claimed space) who only follow the rules when Starfleet is watching, but do their own thing otherwise to live their lives as they see fit. They wind up incurring a spanking from Starfleet, and worse from other groups in space, as the "penalty" for having their own independence. Back in the day, the FASA gaming company had a expansion to the Star Trek: RPG called "Trader Captains & Merchant Princes" that discussed this type of life, and so your players didn't have to be Starfleet officers - they could be other people in the Star Trek universe. memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Trader_Captains_and_Merchant_Princes_(1st_edition)

I think there would be exploration protocols, processes, and procedures, along with all the 1st & 2nd contact protocols. Unless we see it written/discussed on-screen though, it's all beta canon, at best.

I don’t think that disproves it.. like at all

If anything that whole wall of text shows that starfleet doesn't follow its rules because it has colonies on planets that weren't hit by a genesis device and weren't lifeless rocks. Thus with how loose Starfleet plays with sentience (were my current phone has enough power to sustain a sentient life) NO planets that possess flora, fungus, moving rocks, any multicellular organism, or particularly fuana should all immediately be quarantined upon discovery....per the prime directive. The system just doesn't make sense in a hard logic or even broad application. Unless it's a tool of control, much like how Starfleet itself at the time of TNG is a tool for controlling the elements of the Federation who have the innate ambitions which would challenge Starfleet's objectively closed and repressed system (not oppressive but certainly the people are repressed and treated more like sheep expected to obey their betters like a cultist would obey their Prophets)

The thought of traveling deep into space in a ship with no toilets in this scenario concerns me

@@WaXX69420 Oh there's a toilet, they just won't let the Tellarite use it.

You aren’t wrong

@@LoreReloaded first federation might be better

It's kind of like now, the US the big boy. A lot aren't exactly happy. But someone will be top dog. Would they rather it was China or Russia?

@@icecold9511 russia would be better for culture and long term health of the planet

@@damienchall8297 🤣

The UFP was originally an allegory for the Cold War. With the UFP America, Klingons USSR,and Romulans China. So your very likely correct more or less.

@@LanMandragon1720 that’s interesting. I wonder if the development in theKlingons and Romulans in character is due to the post Cold War. Now we actually know how they feel and we don’t fear them anymore

Season 7... when they pretty much just threw all the character development out the window. Oh, and gave everyone siblings for no reason.

I think the Prime Directive is bullshit, but this episode just proves that it gets ignored whenever it is convenient. Why bother having a rule that you aren't going to follow?

"They're prims, better they should die as innocent noble savages, than be--" "Captain, data indicates they're survivors of the USS MakShitUp." "Quickly, let's save 'em!" "But they're on the Cardassian border.." "Screw 'em, they made their choice."

It’s the same standard they had with the genesis project

@@LoreReloaded I think that was part of the experimental control, not an ethical/legal issue.

Depends on who was writing the episode.

Perhaps this planet already had established contact with alien civilizations before meeting Starfleet. Perhaps they are warp-capable and choose not to travel among the stars. Perhaps you should learn to figure out these problems yourself.

Well, they *are* sailors.

@@hellacoorinna9995 🧬🤩

Keep that canon in your head.