I used to do realism sketches of my friends for practice when we'd hang out sometimes. I stopped when I realized that my attempts to draw people as they naturally were--bodyfat, wrinkles, scars, imperfections and all--was making them unhappy with the results. Some of it may have been the result of my lack of skill at the time, but It felt like all they saw in my art were the worst things they disliked about themselves and I felt awful for creating something that made them see themselves as anything other than the cool, beautiful people I thought they were. The sad thing is that I completely relate because one of the major reasons I started my channel using one of my characters instead of a persona as an avatar was because I didn't like drawing myself. I just wish I could have made something that didn't make someone else feel like that. Art really be like that. We can use it to make ourselves look however we want, but we might also exacerbate the self esteem issues that led to that choice in the first place.

I am vietnamese with a flat nose bridge, roundish button nose tip, something I disliked about my face growing up. I had an OC for a story I was writing and just for variety's sake, I drew him my nose. Ever since, I've learnt to dislike my nose less and less. Then I started doing it with other features as well for various characters, my less than ideal height, my wide hips, thick lips..... And years after... I think I feel pretty good about myself nowadays. I now have a character I have given all my features to and he is one of my favourite fictional sons!

A wise man once told me that if you make your sona a disgusting caricature of yourself people won't be dissapointed when they see the real you

I love that you created an image of a character with blemishes/freckles/imperfections. I feel like artists should make more of an effort to embrace the diversity of beauty. Flawless skin, perfect proportions and symmetrical features are unrealistic expectations for actual human beings.

to me personally, it does help me with my own body image a lot. i smack my own features i dont like on my sonas and aboom, suddenly i dont hate myself anymore B)

my friend asked me to draw her, and as both of us are fat, i was all too aware of how she might have felt if i drew her too realistically if that wasnt what she wanted. I went for it anyways, and she was so thrilled that it looked just like her, and i think its really convinced me that i dont ever want to portray people without one of their "flaws". Every single part of our body, perfect or not, deserves the same love. I really hope that more people can see themselves the way my friend does one day, and i hope that by trying my best to include features beyond conventionally attractive ones in my work that i can be a part of that change

I might get eaten alive in the comments for giving my opinion here, but I personally think that the situation is a lot more nuanced, in that it would vary from person to person. I personally draw my sona the way I see my end goal on my journey to better health. I have a lot of health issues caused by my weight and my diet/way I eat, I'm working to change those things, and while I do not hate how i look now, I use my sona design as motivation to reach my goal. My sona isnt super thin, she isn't a supermodel, she looks average/normal and still has a little pudge. And in the past I've drawn someone's sona reference as a commission, and the customer asked me for revisions multiple times asking me to make her thinner. I didnt judge or ask questions, but she ended up explaining to me how important it was to her with apologies for asking me so many times to change it, saying that she had traumatic experience with a binge eating disorder, and she had finally reached a point in her life where she is healthy and fit. (Also she made clear to say that wasnt to say a heavy person couldn't be healthy, but that she personally was not and did not feel healthy at that point in her life, while she does now.) And she just wanted to see her Sona reflect her achievement, her current healthy self. So basically just because someone asks to have their character drawn thin or thinner than they actually are, doesn't automatically mean that they have body image issues or hate themselves or are insecure, all people are different and we cant assume or make judgements without knowing their whole story, and it isn't always a bad thing for someone to not draw their sona the way they actually look IRL.

“A half cat half angel pro at marshal arts, I want to see that now” Gacha community: WE GOT WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR!

For a long time I've noticed a deep insecurity whenever I do draw myself or even random characters. I have a gap tooth, and whenever I try to draw myself or any other character with one I cringe on the inside and erase it. I never knew how insecure I was about it till I was drawing myself in my style, so I never really drew it. When I was watching a Lavendertown Video when she was drawing Pennywise, she kept the gap tooth and said something like "I just love people who have gap tooths, its just an adorable trait" and when she said that I started crying. I wish I could see that trait as adorable like she does, especially since I have it 😔

Honestly I would love to see more body diversity in shows and movies so it's not always the same if that makes sense? I would love to see ppl with more uncommon traits you will see in media like, not the same button nose, same flat belly, smooth skin and more unique features it would add more variety in character design.

My frustration recently has been that while there’s a lot of discussion of body diversity in art, no one ever cares about facial diversity. I feel like the latter has become more and more prevalent since most of the online content we see is made from the bust up, and most of the nasty comments I’ll see on people’s posts are about their face, not their body. I remember when Encanto was popular, I got a TON of crap for drawing Luisa “skinny” (I just accidentally drew her head too big), but I never saw anyone get called out for drawing Bruno with a tiny button nose because “that’s their style”. In fact, everyone in the comments was like “omg he looks so hot in your style!!” It just feels wrong to see people take away characters’ ethnic features in order to make them “fit their art style,” like even though they’re keeping their skin tone, they’re still making them “look more appealing”, to themselves by making them look like a northern European person with a tan. I’m personally someone who believes that everyone should be able to draw what they want within reason (I’ll never excuse whitewashing). If all you wanna draw is skinny moe girls, go for it. But if we’re going to talk about and encourage body diversity, I 100% think that facial diversity should be equally as big of a part of that conversation. Naoki Urasawa is a good example of someone with a classic “manga” style who still draws a wide variety of body types and faces, so I always recommend him as a source to copy from & learn how to draw different features. Tl;dr: If we talk about needing more body diversity, varied facial features need to be part of that, especially in an age of facetune and posting ourselves online. (Edited to add the tl;dr)

i was just talking about this subject the other day! I’m noticing it the older and less attractive i get it’s effecting me more. When i see everyone draw what society says is beautiful it makes me feel like they think you’re only worth any effort if you look a certain way 🥺

I feel like things that are often perceived as flaws, actually add personality and charm. Nothing wrong with being a bit quirky and unique. Perfection in general, can be kind of predictable and unachievable, whereas being a bit different can make things more memorable.

for most of my childhood and adolescence, my fursona worked as a visual metaphor for how i felt outcast and isolated from my peers (due to bullying, mental illness and being trans), but it's only been the past year or two that i've put in effort to make him actually look like me. him and my human self portraits were pretty much always too thin and pointy, because i felt like i wasn't "allowed" to draw fat people, because that's /supposedly/ offensive and ugly (in addition to having bad body image). i feel making my fursona's weight visually more in-line with my IRL self has helped massively with my body image, and drawing him in outfits i like has done wonders to my confidence with clothes that aren't hoodies as for external media, fat people more often than not being evil, or made fun of, or bullied, or disgusting in fiction definitely did not help with this. as i mentioned earlier, i felt scared to draw anything other than a perfect ideal body for a long time, because if i drew anything realistic, people would be offended. i'm still in the process of unlearning this and putting more diverse body types in my work i will say though, in kid's media at least, seeing an uptick in fat characters whose weight is irrelevant or a minor background detail (like in steven universe and dead end paranormal park) is very nice, and having movies like dumplin' where they readily acknowledge a character's weight but don't use it as a constant indicator of something wrong with the character has also been awesome

As a fan of candy gore I've never seen it as a form of vent and when I do it's rare. I usually see it as a enjoyment of gorey art. For me it's fun to see what would it look like if your blood was sugary pink or if your bones where peppermint. It's fun to draw all the colors. I can't speak for all artists but it's not that serious or deep for me.

Interesting video. I find it to be very thoughtful to consider these questions, especially for artists that do character designs. While diversity and respecting the reference are important, what I find very meaningful is the storytelling behind the representations of different ethnic groups and body types. Some of the best character artists today use this diversity to maximize the personality and context of their characters. I'm making my own webcomic and a lot of characters that I'm drawing for my story have very different body types and live in different cultures to my own, the biggest lesson I've had to learn is: "what is the intention of the design?" One of my characters has quite a few scars over her face and body, which while not attractive to many people, signify that there are lots of hostile elements to the environment she lives (FYI she is a secluded hermit in a wild mountain range). Context is important and character designs need to make that intention and context clear.

I've personally never understood why people keep themselves from experimenting with varied faces. So many people just draw the same perfect faces over and over again and it can really hinder your art's development. Although my style is pretty simple and shapely, I love drawing characters with different 'quirks'. Characters with scars, unkempt hair, crooked/big noses, missing teeth, gross fingernails, body hair... the list goes on. I guess I just really enjoy giving characters some wear and tear from simply living. Everyone will have something about their bodies that others might not.

As a nonbinary person, having a sona was a good way to feel comfortable with my femininity (I was assigned female at birth, that doesn't bother me), cuz I still liked feminine things. Putting all that on a cool fantasy sona was a way to explore what I liked. It helped me feel like I can have all these feminine traits and still appear exactly how I want people to see me, at least to the extent of social media (let's be real, no one will see me as the king of crows stuck in the body of a catboy irl). My sona is a performance of what I want to be seen as, but it is not me. They're an entertainer, and I am not. And that's okay. My sona is a tool to provide me comfort.

the girl you drew for this video looks just like i did back when i had longer hair. while i don't like to associate my past self with who i am today, i can really see myself in that girl. when i was little i always used to get so excited to see a character in the main cast who looked like me on tv, because i noticed people of color were often background characters. i guess what i'm trying to say is that i often forget how important representation is, because i never expect the person i see in the mirror everyday to get the spotlight in media and be depicted so beautifully. awesome video

I've always been very focused on my online "persona" being very accurate to who I am in real life-- I'm not sure what it is. I think part of it is the fear of feeling inferior to the fake "me" I make to portray myself. When I draw myself, I try to draw me for me -- I used to have a front tooth that was pretty badly chipped and one thing that surprisingly helped my self image was including that in drawings of myself; at that point, it no longer felt like a huge insecurity and instead just a part of me. When I draw myself, I almost only draw myself in clothes I own because otherwise, I get kind of down that my wardrobe isn't as nice in real life as it is in my head. My main fursona I use to depict myself is also pretty "realistic" all things considered (standard cat, standard colors, etc) though I've finally allowed myself to again have a bright vibrant and fun alternate sona/mascot character like I did when I was a kid and the insecurities started.

You should always draw a person, in whatever style, as unantagonistically as possible, but for me, keeping in a person’s distinct features does them a lot more good than just making a perfect body, because perfect bodies don’t exist.

Oof. Actually growing up I always thought of personas being a self-esteem thing, maybe with a hint of body image I guess. I mean come on… why do cartoon characters look more appealing than irl sometimes. I can’t be just me. I wish I were a cartoon sometimes! 😂

I'm trying to develop methods of drawing non-standard facial features in stylish ways, such as a broad nose, noticeable scars, or asymetrical features, I just think it'd be easier for young artists to draw these things if they see they can look cool too.

I created my persona 2 years ago because I saw many of my mutuals had it and well I wanted to take part in group activites. I’m in Pokémon fandom, so she’s a Pokémon trainer (gym leader). I’m pretty thin and my chest is almost flat and I like it so I only made my sona a little taller. It was fun to translate my sick pale skin and permanent eyebags as „well she can talk to ghosts so that’s why” and not: well I’m actually geneticaly sick.

18:17 ngl- I can see this stuff in fanfics too. Like there’s always an idealised mc charcater that’s like pale skinny and beauty standards pretty. It’s always frustrating cus- ik I’m not skinny. So seeing the whole skinny stuff doesn’t really help with my mental health.

After my surgery, I definitely wanted my sona to match my body which is why I gave her more of my wide body shape, clothing that I enjoy and that proudly shows off my scars.

every time i hear scars being referred to as "unappealing" or "unattractive" I get genuinely confused cuz I forget that people find those "unappealing" and "unattractive" ( I grew up where having those things for cool and natural)

I wouldnt say when ppl draw their characters with s/h scars that are stylized to look more aesthetically pleasing they're portraying it as some sort of new beauty standard, I think this is just a way to protray that scars and skin flaws are and have always been something that can bee seen as ugly or beautiful and that a person's worth shouldnt be defined by their past or by their looks. As someone in a server where lots of people are recovering s/h behaviours and someone who used to do it there is a lot of stigma against openly displaying self made injuries, which actually lead me to doing it in a method where I now have very serious mental health issues due to concussions caused in large part by me choosing that method of s/h specifically to avoid scars. I legitimately think now I would have been better off if that stigma wasn't around because then I wouldnt have to see a neurologist!

18:02 That made me feel horrible ngl. Like I never took part of the trend for that reason ngl. I also did that because I don’t want my face to be associated with my art brand. But ye- it made me feel bad because there were artists that look like models, and while obviously they might’ve filtered some of it, it doesn’t take away the anxiety I have from being called fat constantly irl. Which tbh is ironic because I know people who are bigger than me. And while that’s not a bad thing, I’ve always been self conscious due to my weight.

1st question: Interesting story about my avatar: my original avatar was a self-insert made to look just like me (in my style of course), I did like it compared to my other OC I had at the time which was pretty much a step away from being a stick figure, but it was always harder and more time consuming to draw my self-insert. Later-on I learned how to draw different anatomies, and eventually learned how toon anatomy worked. I drew this little bunny character for fun, but I started growing more attached to him because he was easy to draw, doodle, and experiment with style wise. What's funny is when I started developing his personality (which is based off of my younger impatient, easily misguided, and adventurous self) I started "relating" to him way more...even though I already have an OC that's basically just me. tl;dr: Current avatar has zero connections with my IRL self, but I guess the whimsical personality and how easy it is to draw is what attaches me to this avatar more than the one that was tailor made to be me 2nd question: For me I like drawing things for the challenge. I have no problem drawing things like fat or scars and whatnot, but if I don't have an interest in it then I won't draw it often. At most I might do it as vent-art, or as an experiment 3rd question: Diversity is always cool to see in media, and it's a bit sad that it's still not a common thing in media. Though, for me I'm a little shy about implementing it into my own works simply because my rule of "Don't draw what you don't know". I'm always a little afraid of accidentally offending people with a drawing just because I didn't study hard enough about their way of life (doesn't help that I'm a lonely bastard), so I like to keep it to just things/characters I understand well enough that I can confidently do justice drawing them Hope this little "essay" isn't too long to read. I tend to do that a lot on accident.

I agree a lot with Celestia on the third question of the questionnaire (around 29:54). Body positivity should include ALL bodies, both the over and underweight and whatever else is under the sun. I'm not chronically ill in any shape or form, but have always been on the small side of the spectrum and basically am basically bust and curve-less. Seeing characters like myself means a great deal to me as someone who leans primarily toward animated media- the only character that immediately pops to mind that looks even remotely like me in terms of body type would be Arcane's Jinx. But, this also shouldn't come at the expense of showing off bigger characters, either. There's room for everyone after all, not just the ones who are the most conventionally attractive, with large hips and booba. As for the main question- I would argue to an extent, it can, by enforcing societal beauty standards- like this is what you're SUPPOSED to want to be, but not so much so it's debilitating. Though I feel like that might be the most malicious take, because it's just as easy to be unaffected and understand that there's a reason it'd be what's being enforced- society at large has told us that nowadays certain bodies are acceptable and us, being members of it, absorb that as a fact of sorts.

As someone who creates or draw other ppl persona, I always make sure to ask certain body types into the fray or if i notice something on their persona, i highlight that feature with permission of course. The reason I started doing this was because of my baby sister. When she asked me to draw her Gatcha characters, (she was literally 4 at the time so this was 3 to 4 years ago) I've noticed her always making characters who are fair skin and basically just white in general. When I ask what's that about she told me that she basically like their skin better and that she "hated dark skin". Yall, she herself is a beautiful dark skinned BABY!!! I was as dark as her when i was a baby! After that, I only had dark or tan skinned characters, and only drew them and will continue to draw them. I've always noticed how people will always make their persona to hide something they hate about themselves, or want to be proud of. And as someone who has a persona themselves, I will always use mine to help remind myself that online stays online, and reality stays in reality. And for that I will always draw myself the complete opposite. And as artists, if they ask us to do something, we should do it (as long as it safe, and respectful to both the person and the artist), and to start showing other amazing examples of people who are unique in every way. DIVERSITY IS IMPORTANT

I have some lovely art pieces of my fursona/OC looking sexy and alluring, but honestly prefer being depicted as nerdy and/or more down-to-earth. Being portrayed as *too* "Hollywood hot" just feels unnatural and inauthentic. I would say that some of the art I've gotten has helped with my body image, in fact, and that includes some of the pieces that haven't necessarily depicted me as fit ultra-hottie.

My persona is a pretty accurate version of myself, just with dragon ears and tail. Though it originally wasn't. I have gotten more comfortable with having my general "image" out there. I am pretty squishy, so I try to show that not only on myself but on my characters too. I feel that having characters with real features makes them unique. Not only that, doing so takes the stigma out of features that most people deem "ugly". And I think that's important. I feel that a LOT of artists fall into the Same-Face-Syndrome because they are so unwilling to draw things that they aren't comfortable with.

When I was little, if I had a bad dream I’d draw it as scribbles then burn the drawing…. Also, as a disabled person who refuses to let her disability define her, I try to find hope in my scars, physical or emotional, so A LOT of my OC’s have scars or disabilities, but they also try to find hope in their scars and they don’t let their disabilities define them… it’s a journey for them as it is for me, but it’s a journey worth taking!

I think that the under representation of things like love handles, or body fat in general, has added to the stigma around people perceiving themselves as “fat” or “ugly”. Personally, I have love handles which-for the longest time-I thought was me being “fat” and I was incredibly insecure until I figured out that they are love handles. I’m still not 100% about it, but I’m certainly a lot more comfortable about it

Tw for eating disorder When we were like 12 years old my friend asked me to draw her and so did I. She was dealing with an eating disorder and she was very very skinny, so I drew her that way, using a picture for reference. When I showed her the picture she said "do I really look like that?" and I just didn't know how to answer because she asked it in a surprised yet quite angry. I still don't know what to think about that, it just happened

This channel makes me feel very safe, never attacking anything on personal biases and always leaving room for many other opinions is something that should be appreciated more. Thank you

I draw myself with my tummy and double chin I learned that if I implement my flaws into my artwork and characters then I would appreciate myself more Due to this I’ve grown to appreciate the gap in my teeth and now I see it as something that makes me me I do still have body self esteem problems but it’s healing slowly

My persona has my body type but w like. Fantasy stuff of course (im not actually a satyr made of candy corn guys BIG SUPRISE!!!) So hes a short little twig of a man. And I was probably gonna start drawing him w freckles like I have lol. Id love to start working out more and get closer to the body type id actually like to have, but for the moment I'm just focusing on getting a better relationship with food. 👍💥 but when I do, id probably update his design to reflect that.

13:00 I’m so happy you were able to get in touch with Duchess Celestia! I really love her stuff, and I love how puts forth her opinions!

When Cringey mentioned that she has chub that no one has drawn I felt a bit of a sting because I'm guilty of that. From my perspective, the reason why i draw people a little slimmer than they are is because I'm deeply afraid of offending them. What if they don't like that they're a little heavy? Maybe they don't want to be reminded of this extra weight. What if the fanart/commission becomes tainted because they're unhappy with how they look in it? Heck, maybe they even have an ED and if I depict them as their actual weight they get upset and see themselves as hideous and partake in self harm. I'd rather just go with the safe route and quietly erase five-ten pounds off of whomever I'm drawing. I imagine most people won't get offended if you drew them a little slimmer, but most people will get very offended if you draw them heavier, and the way they see their body might not always match their photo reference.

whenever i make a self insert/oc i always make it resemble me. i always d a specific hairstyle and body type that is close enough to mine. i have body hair on my arms and legs which i used to be insecure about and i never drew them on on my older characters, but now i always draw them with body hair. but how people would view me was having the body type. ive always wanted to have more chub but im not able to due to a fast metabolism. so i want to start making my characters a bit more chunky. im not good with body types because im still experimenting. but one day ill be able to draw more body types than just a rectangular body

This is a great video, also I can hear a little meow in the background occasionally haha

I’m small trans man that has some chub. My main sona character is my Sonic OC. I used to draw him skinny. Even when I drew myself I would draw myself skinny. In the more recent years I started liking my chbbiness drawing it in more of my characters and especially when I draw myself.

"Could you draw me, but make me prettier?" "So, you dont want me to draw... YOU?"

very important topic to tackle, thanks for doing what you do. really appreciate your content and effort.

This reminds me a lot of the "Inclusive Character Creator" project presented for SIGGRAPH 2022, which aimed to create stylised characters with inclusive features. In my opinion, they did a good job and I believe it should be used as an example for how to create stylised characters with such features.

I was working on a fursona a while back but halted progress due to life things I had to attend to, during that time away from my WIP character I decided to work on losing weight since even my doctors all said I should shed the extra pounds. When I was first working on my fursona I would take note of my own features to include into her design, the fact that I have a cowlick on the right side of my head would show up as cowlicks on my the right side of my fursona's coat, she has glasses-like eye markings to match that I wear glasses and I couldn't get the glasses to look good on her face because of the position of her ears, and yes, I didn't shy away from making her chubby. The extra roundness from the pudge actually worked well with the overall round shape language I wanted for her! Gonna have to slim her redesign down now but I ended up finding new things on myself that I hadn't noticed before to include as new features!

This is a really meaningful video to me, and as an artist that struggles with drawing body fat, and not being that skinny myself, it nice to know that others struggle with this as well and I’m not alone.

When it comes to the features part something that stuck with me is when an artist lamented how a lot of fat characters especially ones we're supposed to like and relate to and treat with actual respect such as one character from shera dont really have double chins and I've def been trying to explore my style and ive started incorporating it more in my fat characters, focusing on how i draw fat especially facial fat and its really made me come to appreciate how it looks. like we see someone like jack horner and I was like wow his face looks so good and I prob wouldnt have thought that if i hadnt challenged my own biases in terms of style and pushed myself to explore more in how i show certain features. I definitely think artists need to stop trying to prettify features and focus more on portraying them as accurately as possible. remember you need to have a good understanding of fundamentals before you can properly simplify and I think its also important in how we portray fat, scars, acne, pimples, noses, really anything or any sort of features. like yeah youre not always gonna draw it looking "nice" but you need to fail before you can succeed

As a person with lots of scars on my torso after multiple operations (kidney transplant, and a few others), I actually like to include some of them in my fursona, as much as the clothing allows it in certain art. Yes, I have typically furry (though recently also started to try drawing people), more cartoonish art style, so those are heavily simplified. and given neon colour. But they are part of my history and they are there, even if not always easily visible.

”We live in a society.” (cue Joker laugh)

I don’t really have a characterisation of myself. Mainly because I don’t think I could draw one that fits me. My favourite oC, lunar, was once a characterisation but has become their own character. I make art to escape from reality and drawing myself would have the opposite effect.

This is such an interesting video that I couldn't even go into detail on it! XD Kudos to you, Apollo!

This subject is honestly really under-talked about. I'm portugese and have darker skin, when i was younger i was super into gacha life and stuff like that and i was really self conscious about my entire body (i had dark brown curly hair, acne, freckles which are all things i like about myself now) and i made my "irl" persona extremely light skinned, no blemishes or "imperfections", and made "me" have light brown straight hair. it fucked with the way i saw myself and im just now trying too draw me accurately.

"undiagnosed 'tism" really got me, but also, yeah same

Great video! I think this is a really interesting topic, and I haven't seen this sort of thing being covered or talked about! It's nice to take a look back at the way I've drawn myself, and consider it in a new light. One thing that I find interesting with myself and my most recent persona, is that I actually ended up exaggerating my dark arm and leg hair, drawing my persona as having a mostly human body, but with beastly limbs, complete with claws! I took a real life trait of mine that I once thought of as "unappealing" and gave it a ✨️ Fantastical Twist ✨️ and because of it, I actually feel better about my thick, dark hair. It's a fascinating topic for sure, and recently, instead of getting down on myself for natural traits I have, I just call myself a silly-billy! A charming beastie! A slightly-fucked up critter! La creatura! There's a goofy joy in calling myself a little freak (affectionate

Just catching up to older videos and this one I felt the need to comment on. I’m a big woman with many flaws I’d rather not mention. While I am skilled enough to draw these flaws accurately, I choose not add them to my persona because i don’t like these aspects of myself. Some people just don’t like being reminded of their less flattering qualities and I think that’s fine. Sometimes this push to make things diverse blinds people to the fact that they have flaws they’d rather not want to share. It’s cool to learn to be diverse but sometimes it’s best to let artists feel better about themselves too.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with drawing and aspiring to an idealized human anatomy. Most of the time those "unrealistic standards" come from eating right and staying fit. That said, art is stylized and the whole point is that it's not realistic. You can't actually make yourself look like anime or a cartoon, nor should you try. The characters don't have to earn their body, but we do.

I know I've certainly taken a few liberties when designing my sona tenant as to make them a bit more appealing to the art audience, but most of the actual choices were made just for me. I do have some pretty bad body image issues, and tenant can be a way I escape and see a better version of myself, if that makes sense. But I did try to make my sona look like me, too. All the changes I made were just my own, and don't make me feel bad about my own real body. Amazing art, as usual!

For me, my sonas might be stemmed from my lack of experience with body types and self esteem because my artsona being thinner is a representation of the kind of body I wish I had, although I had tapped on making my body look thicker occasionally. I just find my sonas more attractive looking that way in my style atm. I have a soft spot for people’s sonas having scars and freckles or even spots from skin conditions like vitiligo because there isn’t that many sonas with those features.

If I where to have drawing mastery I would rarely draw a photorealistic self portrait, I mean I can just take a picture, I would most of the time draw myself as I would want to be (from no chipped corner of front tooth to no asymetric eyebrows) or want to see what I would look like (like what would I look like had I red eyes). And this is how it is for the vast majority of people and is perfectly fine. The problems are for those people who not only wish to look differently, but cant accept what they actually look like and cant accept that real people such as themselves have flaws. The only case I see for drawing myself as I actually look like would be that I generally think paintings look better than pictures, its hard to explain.

The ideal body for us would be one with the mass to collapse stars and capture the light but ALL with a kind heart are wonderful in The Voids perspective. All work is seen and all is appreciated. There’s no form that The Void can’t appreciate for what it is, a full varied life with boundless potential. The Void wishes all a pleasant day and that all look upon themselves kindly next time they visit the mirror. Sincerely -The Void

This was an interesting discussion; I do have an online persona; his look has evolved as the software I use has evolved; initially it was difficult to develop characters with heavier body types; over the years that has significantly changed; currently, I think he looks a lot like me, big dad-bod and all, while at the same time being radically different in attire, for the sake of anonymity...

This is a great topic to be exploring, you executed it really well! I definitely relate to a lot of concerns around body image and it's connection to my art. It's definitely case by case, but personally, I do find that my own insecurities do actually infiltrate my creative outlets. For example, one of the biggest reasons I avoid realism and stick to drawing lil' furrys is because the separation from humans allows me to feel more comfortable drawing bodies/faces and somewhat frees me from the thought that I'm not good enough because I'm not allowing myself to compare myself to my art.

I have a persona/OC named Messa. :3 I tend to draw her with messy short hair or a shaved head, and a bigger chest with thicker thighs & petite build. She loves pastel goth/kawaii fashion, too. :D This was a very informative video! Thank you for making it. 💜

Finally someone talks about this! I was always sure that me being into art had a lot to do with my ed since i often wanted to look and dress like my characters but whenever i tried and looked into the mirror i always got extremely repulsed and disgusted because it looked nothing like the art I’m glad i found this video

Just to say, a lot of things people end up insecure over often don't even matter in reality. Often when I ask my friends why do they think they are ugly they name the exact facial features I have, that just look different in combination with their own features. I am endlessly told that I am atrractive over the exact same features my friends despise their faces for. I am generally considered rude for, well, autism reasons, I eat like a swine when I'm in public, I have visible scars on my face, especially in summer, my skin gets pretty icky and gross when I eat dairy products (like wet and crumbly kind of icky) due to a condition... And you know what? Nobody gives a damn. We are taught to be so insecure, we stop noticing any imperfections in anyone but ourselves. My mom grew up like that, and she went lengths to prevent me from the same fate. I geniunely don't think that looking attractive is about specific face or body type, it's about the attitude you have, about the confidence.

THIS!! every time someone ask me about to draw them is like eeehmmm I don’t think I can do justice to your real self, gosh, I can’t even do a proper portrait of myself 😭 I’m not that good, that’s my whole point; my drawing range is super limited & it’s frustrating

Shout-out for the Hilda love! 🤘🏻💙 When I look back at my own illustrations of myself I can see my own biases. When I draw or illustrate myself I have a more angular jaw, more defined widow's peak, an actual beard or beard stubble instead the patchwork of hair that currently resides on my face; things that definitely make me look more mascular. I know it's not something I consciously do cause I wasn't aware I was doing it until I checked myself; that's when I realized I had indeed wrecked myself. All I can say is that even though I identify with the nonbinary, growing up in a very small Catholic school being teased about my gender (I grew up alongside the It's Pat skit from SNL) and constantly hammered down and reminded of what a Midwestern-man-from-Chicago has left a real impression on me and how I portray myself in illustration. Needless to say, I think, that I grew up very closeted as well. But I'm all good now, all good. So very, very good. Super. 👍🏻

19:26 I make vent art but don't destroy it even tho i do go to therapy and i find keeping it more helpful I know not everybody feels this way but i'd like to put my opinion in as someone who makes vent art and had developed mental illnesses at a very young age. I find just keeping the vent art helps me in a way destroying it doesn't, i'll take my autism vent art for example; in the more simplistic definition I dumped what my visual interpretation of what my autism looks like onto paper but i decided to keep it just because it shows a side of me otherwise invisible and as much as i hate it it's still me and i feel like learning to accept it as something you simply have to come to terms with and can't just be destroyed. Lets say someone has depression and makes vent art about said depression, it cant just be destroyed; sure it can be cured but that takes time and effort and even when its cured it's still apart of your life that you can't just destroy I think it's important to have those memories even if its painful because it represents a part of your past life. In summery, simply destroying vent art as a symbolism of getting rid of or forgetting the initial issue isn't the same as healing you can have a scar that heals but it's still there and that's not just something to forget. This is only my opinion of course i'm no psychologist or anything and this is just based off my personal experience.

My persona is only vaguely connected to me, she's based on a very exaggerated version of my personality, in reality she's almost nothing like me, she's confident and brash. Since she isn't me and is her own character I feel like I can do more with her (she's actually a comedically horrible person and if it were supposed to represent me I don't think I'd want to do that) but she's also sort of my muse to be more confident in myself. I also do use her to try different styles without the dedication of going out and buy clothes. I think she doesn't hurt my self imagine because she isn't me as a whole, she isn't what I want to be, but she's just a part of me and a fun character I express my self through.

I didn't think I had as much to say about this as I do when I think about it but, I've always found it hard to draw people I know in real life, specifically fat ones, not because I can't draw them, but because I don't know what their mindset is on their bodies. I remember when I was younger my friend made a sim of me who was unnaturally thin compared to my body at the time and even though I was really insecure about my body then, I still hated that the sim was so thin- that being said I still understand that drawing someone fatter than they're comfortable with can be very harmful to their mental health, even if it is fatphobic, and the same can be said for drawing someone thinner. I find it easier to ask the person what kind of body shape [instead of how much fat] they want to have in the drawing so I can gage it better and I make sure to show them a sketch and ask if there are any changes they'd like so I can hopefully get it closer to what they want to see because, for me, the person's mental health and a version of them that makes them happy or inspires them to pursue the visual appearance they want is more important than portraying a hyper-realistic version of them. That being said, I do have a persona as well and I know that although I enjoy having a persona who looks similar enough to me [because I've spent so long figuring out how to like the way I look], there are distinct things I chose to keep vs change, I kept things that took me the longest to like about myself, like my nose and hair, but chose to leave out a realistic depiction of my chest because of how people treat it. For me, I focused on the kind of character I wanted to portray and merged my character with a previous version of the persona as well, but if I were to make another persona I'd make sure it represented my personality and interests more. I think personas definitely have an impact on how you see yourself, depending on your closeness with it and how much of yourself or your beauty standards you choose to include, but I also think that personas can be a vessel for learning about physicality and the traits you value and can grow to value as time goes on, for me, I always used to make characters that basically all fit the same mould of who I wanted to be but as I got older, my characters became more diverse and I find myself fawning over traits that I'd rather have died than given to my characters at 12 years old. I think that the way we've grown in supporting diverse appearances means that people can make idealised versions of themselves when they're younger, and then grow to see how both their persona and themselves can be separate entities and equally as appealing also, everyone needs some good wish fulfillment to some extent, body image specifically is just a very slippery slop and I think that awareness of bias helps people navigate it much better

Actually I try drawing my characters with scars, armpit hair, acne, bigger and humped nose bridges and etc. They still ended up turning out really nicely. :) I feel like fat and muscle has to be a learned thing though. I'm trying to ease into that more bc i really struggle with drawing buffer and chubbier bodies but I'm really working on it!

When I was a teen, I have a sona that I made that is a completely fantasical version of me. I put some certain traits I have onto her but with a bright colored hair and fit body type. As soon as I got into college, I always draw a chibi version of myself, the one where I show all my chubs and honestly, it slowly made me appreciate that I do it. My teen sona is now a part of a story I'm doing so there's that. I still dislike showing my real face. It's too tired and stress looking most of the time. Still trying to un-tire myself xD

I go with ''You are free to draw yourself however the hell you want, but it is not healthy to draw a body that is not yours, give yourself a chance by doing that you Do help others too, please just think about it and give it a try'' I personally do not like my skinny flat body; but slowly I started to accept it and actually draw my 'persona' more like it, sure with sparkles fantasy details and colored hair But the body type is closer to my real one, Also doing my best to break my own bubble and draw other types of bodies (I mean im my own main example, it had affected on the characters I created pfff- ) I love too that today beauty standard is finally starting to break♥

As a fellow trans woman (or NB, I haven't really found out where I fall in that regard) I can really relate with Doodletones when it comes to representing herself with a female avatar to help with dysphoria and portray herself how she wants to be seen. Specifically the points of wanting an idealized version to have more curves in the chest and hip areas, I'm the exact same way, as well as wishing my shoulders and facial features were softer, it's the main reason I like socializing in VRChat more than IRL. And I could be wrong but it sounds like she was using a voice modulator, and that's something else I've been thinking of for VRC or if I ever get around to starting a channel again. My voice is probably the biggest source of dysphoria for me, and it's something I've been having a lot of trouble retraining myself on because I've done so much speaking/singing while presenting as a cis male.

8:22 the cat in the background is perfect

when I saw Celestia (who I am also subbed too) I was shocked & happy to know that I could have a chance of seeing a collab vid/stream between you 2

My persona is a vent character that’s supposed to be a physical embodiment of my Intrusive Thoughts

For me my art has evolved with my mindset at the time. As a black person that grew up in a all white very racist community and school. And that developed me having a lot of internalized racism so most of the time I’d present myself as white with my self inserts and personas. Or at least been coded as white.(it was pretty bad, so bad that it resulted in depression and me not looking in the mirror for years and still can’t but that’s also a mix of other reasons )Now I make personas/fursonas with my culture,hair,and me in mind. Now they’re mostly black coded or black, but I don’t show my black human persona online due to fear of racism (they show my imperfections like my dark spots and bumps. That I have all over my skin.) I mostly use my black coded fursona instead.

I would consider my avatar a combination of exaggerated versions of my actual features and how I feel on the inside. Why am I a catboy? Because I love cats and find their general behaviour very relatable. Why do I have blue eyes? Because blue is favourite colour. Why do I have powers like Schrodinger's Cat? Because I hate it when people look at me when I'm trying to do something, it messes up my performance. Having a power that only works when no one can see me is symbolic representation of that.

I'll never live up to the unrealistic expectation of being a top hat

Ok, trigger warning: I have an Eating Disorder. It's.... kinda bad. I'm also veeeeeery short which has always been a huge insecurity of mine. So, I had this character who was really tall and skinny, and one day I decided to develop his backstory and gave him the same ED I have. Then I thought "hm... if he has an ED now, that most likely means he used to be chubbier, right?" And decided to draw him that way, just for fun and to see how he'd look. I... I can't express just how much I love his chubby design. At a time I felt so bad about my weight, looking at him and realizing he looks so much better, healthier and prettier as a pretty chubby and soft-looking dude, I guess maybe so could I. It genuinely made me feel so much better about how I look, even though I'm factually much thinner than him (despite my dismorphia telling me otherwise). This character is genuinely very important to me (indeed my 2nd favorite out of my 175 OCs) solely due to how much he helped/s me cope with my ED. A few days later on I also changed him to be somewhat short, but that one was due to a worlbuilding change (.... it's complicated lol) My 1st favorite? A small fiery guy, with my height, my weight, and 5x my teenage angst. He helped me cope a lot with my distaste for my height and general petiteness. After all that, I just wanna say this is a great video. I admit it triggered me a lot (for obvious reasons) but damn worth the watch!

I honestly think I look alright IRL for what it's worth, but then one thing I was dealing with was whether I want to draw myself super cute or whatever or to make myself look more exaggerated and stylized just so I don't come off as too self-aggrandizing. Thankfully the solution to literally everything is using an alien character (you can see in my icon) that both looks cooler and more interesting but also shows off the fact that I like more fantastical character designs anyway.

This is super interesting so far - I always want to draw art more diverse than I end up with, and I'm working on getting through that Eta-: the "candy gore" idea is super intriguing - to me there is an inherent connection between beauty and consumption and desire for a thing leading to the destruction of that thing. It hits the same uncomfy chord as describing femme (esp. biopic femme) people like food does. Very vampy.

I know, no one really cares enough about my opinion but, I find that little blemishes on someone’s skin or the little imperfections are what make them unique. Not always though. Like I said, no one cares but now that opinion is out there.

My persona is based of just whatever gave me the most gender envy. Days I'm feeling dysphoric I have to not look at them or it makes me sad, especially since it'd be nearly impossible But other than those few days, the fact they are what I want to be makes me feel happy that some people see me as that, even my irls who follow me there.

My persona isn’t even human. It’s a pony since I’m big into MLP.

this is a really nice video, thank u for making it

i havent watched the video yet but from what i think currently, i think personas are best used when they accentuate our features and make us feel better about our real selves, instead of replace or hide them. they can be a way to help us realize our physical insecurities can be very beautiful and aren’t something to be ashamed of.

I can hear your cat between 8:20 and 8:30, it's adorable that's all

I've always designed my characters/sonas to be more of a visual representation of my personality, or the personality of the character (most are usually pieces of my own being combined with other non-me traits). In a way, they are an idealized self. Oftentimes I have to adopt a personality to navigate public spaces, such as work, that more closely match my appearance for the sake of making it easier to communicate and work with others. While I wouldn't say that its not the real me, its not the full picture and I use my characters to vicariously explore and experience aspects of my personality that I'm either too anxious to or unable to do with my physical body. I'm fairly indifferent to my actual appearance, and I've made peace with the fact that that I'll never look ideal. I'll do the best I can to keep up appearances with my family and out in public, and indulge in the ideals through fantasy, and that's good enough for me. Also in case anyone is wondering, my profile picture is a drawing of me by a buddy of mine, unrelated to my characters and closer to my actual appearance.

This discussion is actually really interesting, and I wanted to add my own perspective to it, as I honestly feel like I have a very strange relationship with all of my personas. I have 3 that can be considered my persona. The girl in my pfp, a robot character and myself, how I'd draw myself. For the longest time I'd always draw myself when it came to my persona. At the time, I was pretty happy with myself and my appearance. When I started being active online, my persona changed from myself to the one in my pfp. I didn't feel fully comfortable using myself as a persona online, so I just made up a character based off of my username. I just made her to be appealing and fun for me to draw. In 2021, gender dysphoria kicked my ass, and I distanced myself from the girl in my pfp. I now use her as a mascot for my social media. I made up the robot, using traits that I liked in characters, but also keeping some similarities to me. He has my height, my hips and my childish face, but his torso is more masculine to reflect how I'd want to be, and so I can draw a form of myself without feeling dysphoric. But honestly, as long as people are happy drawing their personas, I don't think there's any harm in having a persona that's not like them. I'm only 12 minutes in I should probably go back to finishing the video

I'm so sad they didn't bring up darker skin tones in the cosplay section in more detail because it's such a major issue if not one of the biggest in the cosplay beauty standard community. we're constantly told we don't look enough like the character because of our hair or our skin so we should only cosplay dark skinned characters of which BARELY anyone looks like us. It's just so demoralizing. we can't have anything. none of our real issues are talked about by anyone other than us because everyone just focuses on the quintessential surface level black issues. there's more. more than you could ever conceive. no wonder some people think black people are no longer oppressed

I'm not a good artist so my persona art tends to be very simple and doesn't really show much of my real self yet, but I always try to avoid removing my """flaws""" from the designs, and I say this as someone who once suffered from severe self-image issues in the past. I was pretty much raised on manga FILLED with jokes about skinny girls dieting because they gained 1 pound or flat-chested girls holding violent grudges against big-chested girls, and for the longest time I genuinely believed that these were normal expectations to have. The "flaws" that artists choose to remove from themselves or their characters will always, to a certain extent, consciously or subconsciously inform the viewers what is "normal" to feel about themselves. Of course not everyone can be held responsible for the self-image of all the strangers around them, but as with any artistic/stylistic decisions it's important to examine the reasons why you're choosing to avoid depicting the things that you omit. I personally strive to be able to portray my truest most honest self to show that I'm not ashamed of the way I look, and that nobody who looks the way I do should be ashamed, either. Especially to the trans girlies out there: we come in all shapes and sizes, so you're still so very much still valid as a woman even if you're not a skinny-waisted busty anime babe!!!!

I always make my persona look like me but also have features of my ocs

From my own experience they types of people I paint largely has to do with the models available. When I was in school I painted a larger range of body types because the models themselves were those different body types. Now, I can't really afford to pay someone $15 and hour to stand for me and it can be hard to find groups to join that pool expenses for live models. So that leaves stock images online to practice from, which are all models that fit the standard beauty image of that industry, especially if you are looking for a specific pose. I have since gotten friends to model but you have to get lucky and have someone with the time and skill to be an effective model.

22:26 Quite literally, this is why all my characters and designs have similar body types. I'm not good at going outside of what I already know, and I already have a hard time getting drawings done. I'm working hard to learn and get better, but its not easy to break the cycle. I'm scared to go out my comfort zone because almost everytime I have, I got bullied for "doing it wrong"