Chani to me did not read as a jealous, shunned lover. To me, her scenes suggested that she was grieving the loss of the man she loves in real time. As Paul comes up to the Emperor, defeats Feyd and announces his rise to the throne with Irulan as his wife, Paul the man she loves is gone, replaced by the Lisan al Gaib now Emperor of the Imperium. "You will never lose me, Paul Atreides. Not as long as you stay who you are." That's what she said to him. And yet now he's gone. Seemingly lost to her. I think we can allow her to feel that loss and grieve it. Paul does say "She'll come around." because she loves him. That's the contrast this film Chani will have. She loves Paul and yet she despises what's been done to her people through him. I think that makes her choice to still be with him all the more compelling, rather than "oh it's fine the Fremen practice polygamy."

I just wanted to say, if it wasn't for Quinn I wouldn't be nearly as familiar of Dune as I am. He is a fantastic communicator and ambassador of the world. (Honestly I think he deserved to be invited to the movie premieres and be some sort of Dune expert, because I guaranty I'm not the only person who was chaperoned into Dune by Quinn)

I didn't have a problem with angry Chani because what most people seem to be missing is the most important point about why she leaves: She promised to love him as long as he remained who he was. All that went out the window when he took the Water of Life and *changed*.

This is like the Avengers of Dune channels, love it!

The scene when the Emperor's ship flies over Arrakeen and the city is reflected in its hull... God, that was cool... I thought about that for like 4 hours afterward. What a wild shot.

This is glorious. My favorite Dune specialists. Danika and Quinn together was what we needed.

I just saw Dune Part 2 and I came home to a house where no one wanted to talk about Dune. I was about to scream for the lack of having a place to vent, discuss, and celebrate. This stream with this amazing cast made my night!

Love how Quinn always gives Danika her flowers, shes humble about it, but Danika really inspired a lot of people on youtube and in real life, from her popular game of thrones videos back in the day, to her esoteric chaos Magick vids, she is the goat if this niche space.

Villeneuve's secret: he wants to wait 15-20 years before he does 'Children, then keep the same lead actor as Paul but organically grown up; it will carry a special kind of gravitas.

I get that Walken could be distracting for some people, but he worked for me. He seemed out of touch and impatient. Like a guy accustomed to having things his way. But also tired and weak. It wasn't exactly how I imagined the emperor, but it makes sense to me. Also I think they're being intentional with some of the accents, so I imagine his distinctive accent fits his distinctive background and role in the story, much like Stilgar's.

When Paul kills the Baron, he gets him on the left side of the neck and says “you died like an animal”. Is this a reference to the gom jabbar of the Baron in the book? Being that it’s a test of human/animal, and that it’s in the same spot the gom jabbar is held?

I think Chani moved the blue thing to her arm just as a form of battle dress, she was going to wear a helmet and such so she tied it around her arm where people could still see it.

Paul’s a passive character in the first movie. He’s a passive character in the book - until he’s in the desert. I use Dune in my screenwriting classes to talk about passive vs. active characters. Also about how books and movies are different things. (I loved both part 1 and part 2.)

Walken as the Empire in vacuum was pretty good IMO. He's the contemplative weak/scared emperor from the books I think. The problem is Walken himself is such an iconic cultural figure that we can't get past it. I couldn't get past it, "That's not the Emperor, it's fucking Christopher Walken." I think that's a casting choice that will be better for future audiences who haven't grown up watching him in a million movies.

To add to the discussion of Chani’s blue armband, in the first book Fremen wear it as a sign of mourning. After Chani finds out her father passed away, she wears a blue scarf tied around her arm. I think in the movie it’s a visual representation of her grieving Usul and their past relationship while Paul changes and assumes his new role. This is also driven home by her saying in the movie that she’ll love him as long as he is himself.

the Emperor should have been Mads Mikelson, and i really stand by that.

I know everyone is excited about Dune right now because of the deserved success of the film, but I do think we should be more cautious in demanding and expecting more 'content' in this franchise. I feel like Dune is only succeeding right now because it is reminding people of the power and value of a grand cinematic experience. The overextension into tv series, animated shows, and other media is what has degraded and maybe even doomed Star Wars and Marvel. I would rather get big budget, tent pole, important films every 2-3 years than some half backed tv show on Max. Anyway what a great panel! Quinn and Danika are my favorite Dune creators 🥰 I'm secondhand very happy for Quinn for this collaboration because he's talked up Danika's Dune Club throughout the years!

Saying Zendaya was "around that" when she straight up grew up on Disney channel.. I'm.. like.... Rue was what solidified her as a legitimate actor because it's so far removed from her character. *I'm not gunna say it bruh* 💀

Chani's "problem" with Paul becoming Emperor is so explicitly spelled out for the viewer I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone could miss it. The film literally has her tell Paul she doesn't want him to lust for power. And then he does exactly that. Seemingly flaunting it. She feels betrayed because he's so fully embraced the fanatics to serve his own ends. Like there's an entire scene where they discuss it. Top center guy gets it.

Christopher Walken is not just “being Christopher Walken” in this film. (BTW, he and Javier Bardem are the only Oscar winners for acting in this film.) His performance is subdued, not exaggerated-no mustache twirling and no “Walkenisms”. He portrays the Emperor as a weakened ruler, past his prime. With some melancholy. Walken is a deserved Oscar-awarded actor, a pro, and a legend. Within limited screen time, he graces “Dune 2” as a good member of an ensemble team-with stardom, class, and dignity. A cinema king playing a king. Also recall back in the day Walken’s dance in Fatboy Slim’s “Weapon Choice”. The song says, “walk without rhythm and it won't attract the worm”-pretty much predicting his future association with “Dune 2”!!!

As someone who hasn’t read the book, Walken’s casting and appearance made me understand why he felt threatened by Leto. Maybe that’s what Denis was going for

As a Dune daddy its great to see you kids giving it so much love.

they do say that spice extends life in the first movie, its near the beginning of the movie while paul is studying filmbooks about arrakkis just before duke letos ceremony starts

No adaptation of Dune is ever going to be the movie you create in your head when you read the book, and for that reason alone there will never be a film/tv version that pleases everyone. This is Denis Villeneuve's interpretation of Dune, not mine or any other fan, and while you agree or desagree with his choices you have to respect the integrity of the work he puts on screen. I loved it because, although I missed some things and disagreed with others, overall I feel this is faithful to the essence of the book. Having a director that is also a fan and understands the source material is the important thing. I haven't felt this happy and excited about a beloved book adaptation since The Lord of the Rings trilogy.

I didn’t even know this collab was even possible?!! My favorite KZfaqrs together, some spice dreams do come true!

Quinn and Danika, you are both responsible for getting me into Dune, I read the books back in 2019 and we are so lucky to be getting this film series now!

Shoutout to Abu for keeping it real.

Guy centre of the top row was the MVP of this. Enjoyable discussion.

The Zendaya take is wild lol. I couldnt disagree more and i think most people would.

You guys seem to be blaming Zendaya for a problem that Denis created. All the characters are flat all the time. That's why the romance was a little flat. Everything is flat. I don't get why that was laid on her and not the actor or director. That's obviously the biggest critique of the whole movie is there wasn't emotion in it. So I don't get how that can be laid on her. It's not like the rest of the movie was filled with emotions and feeling and only her scenes aren't. Its the whole movie has no heart moments, it's all eyes and head.

If we all go see it again this weekend we’re definitely getting Dune Messiah 😄🔥

45:54 Carl Jung. He's canon because Earth's history is canon in DUNE. 😉❤️ 46:30 oh and it's a subtle distinction. But Paul doesn't say "She'll come around." He actually said "She'll come to understand. I've seen it." The funny thing about this line is, all of us superfans heard it as "She'll come around" the first time. Because she'd have to for Messiah to happen like the book. But "come to understand" might really be indicative of Chani spending most of part 3 fighting against Paul. And having some moment of closure at the end. His delivery of that line is actually on the bitter side. He does not like what he sees. But he accepts it as the way it has to be. Paul did have a vision of Chani stabbing him in part 1. I think we're in for some big suprises with Chani's arc. And I personally believe it's not leading towards the twins. I think there is a decent chance Chani is actually pregnant with baby Leto. Who, because of this new arc, will survive. Which means that if Chani fights against Paul in part 3... her son will be the same age Paul's sister. If so, Paul would have seen it. But if Chani doesn't tell her son that their #1 enemy is his father... that could lead to some kind of emotional reconciliation for Paul and Chani. And on the off chance Lady Margot's child of Feyd is a character in part 3 (like CBG19 alluded to)... we might have three kids who are the same age in this final chapter from Denis. My theory on all this as a possibility is that Paul's fragmented prescient visions allowed him choose a different path from the books. Where he was influenced by Jamis, and his fear of Chani dying, to drink the water of life two years earlier than the path in the books. Keep in mind the two key visions just before traveling south for the water were Chani dying by fire. And Jamis, even though his timeline has been long sealed off by his death. Which means that THIS Paul can glimpse, not only into possible futures... but also into alternate paths he can no longer live in. Very different from the books. So Paul is more afraid to lose Chani. He touches the spice with his bare hand on top of the sand. And calls to Jamis. Directly asking him to show him the way. The Bene voice blends into a vision of Jamis teaching Paul to hunt. "He needs to see... as far as he can see. You need to see!" Paul has other visions we do not see ourselves. He is already certain Chani will stop loving him if he takes the water now. Rather than spending two more years in the desert together. Having a baby. Allowing their love to fully form to the point that she no longer doubts him as the Prophet. Which would cost their child's life. And eventually lead to Chani dying in childbirth. So Paul has possibly avoided the death of Chani and their first son if she is indeed pregnant. At the cost of turning her against Paul. A choice she will eventually "come to understand." Which makes lots of sense if she finds out what he did to save them both. This theory is also based on the idea that Denis doesn't want to make Children of Dune. And will complete Paul's arc in 3 parts with a far more conclusive ending than is written in Dune Messiah. Though I imagine he would leave some loose strands for others to work with down the line. Great stream guys!❤

Dune 2 reminded me how nice the theatre/cinematic experience is💜

I liked him as the emperor. He was like i imagined him in the books. Not intimidating, or a force of power. He's in power because of the sardaukar and because the bene gesserit want it. Loved Stilgar though.

After all these years, this is the first time i've seen the Gom Jabbar dudes. You 2 made me the lore nerd i've become. Thank you.

This was fantastic. Thank you all for getting together for this discussion!

The comments on Zendaya in this episode are so out of line. She has so much range. She is Hollywood's biggest actress right now. I think the short hair lady is really not an informed person. They admitted they aren't in touch themselves.

Kyle McLaughlin should have been the Emperor

This was my favorite stream about Dune 2 so far and I’ve been enjoying a lot of them out there. Great conversation and panel.

All my favorite Dunetubers in one place!!! you guys are the sole reason for my appreciation for these books... Started with watching this silly campy movie from the 1980's i stumbled on youtube back in 2019, then i watched all of your guy's videos to make sense of it all and that's where the rabbit hole began as i fell in-llove with Herbert's Worldbuilding. I read the books then saw Dune Part 1 and the rest is history! ;) and yes Nerd Cookies, RELEASE THE EXTENDED CUT!!!!!!!

I have not heard the Gom Jabbar podcast guys before, but I really appreciated their insightful takes here. I'm going to have to hear more of them.

I am just happy this series I’ve always liked is now this massive event being seen by so many different people. If even 1% decide to try reading the books, it’s a huge success to me. :)

This was so much fun to see all my favorite Dune Content Creators in one place, so Good.

I'm currently reading Dune: Messiah. Let this be my motivation that as soon as I'm done with the six core book series, I will come back to this video to finish it! Love the fact Quinn, that you have the freaking Gom Jabbar podcast dudes in your discussion! My thoughts on Dune: Part Two is that it was amazing! I do agree the empoper was propably the weakest performance.. I also liked the changes they did with Chani, she's more believable then in the book personally. I love how the film visually illustrated how the water of life is extracted, great visual storytelling! Hans Zimmer's music was much more robust and had more character then the first one. Only I Will Remain is a beautiful piece that I will come back to listen to multiple times. Given Dune Part Two a solid 9.0/10. Loved it with some minor gripes! Good time to be a Dune fan!

So awesome to see all my favorite Dune people together!

Regarding Chani's blue scarf around her arm: I don't recall that much from the books because it's been a while since I've read them but in the movie the scarf allowed us to recognize her in the battle sequence when the Fremen were attacking the Emperor's base.

You and Nerd Cookies are my favorite Dune lovers and nerds in general. Was so stoked to see her here along with everyone else!

Abu (hope that, that's the correct spelling) and I are on the same page on all that was talked about. Which is why I am now subscribing to your channel!

Oooooo the Landsraad meets to discuss dune 2!

Glad to see this Collab happening. Defo a big celebration for dune as a franchise and all creators like yourself who talks so much about it. Personally thanks to you I have gotten into Dune, I hope your audience grows and more people will want to get into the series too!

Great panel - loved how everyone seemed to have the space to be able to make their points

Amazing takes, guys. True fans, I could listen to you all talk for another 2 hours!

Omg the discussion I needed!

The absolute dream team I could have ever hoped for to discuss an absolutely epic movie, based on my favorite book series of all time.

Yea I didn’t see it as scorned lover so much as him saying he would tear down the system and then embracing it. So she was let down by him being a phony

Well each Dune movie can’t be 4 - 5 hours long as much as I’d love to watch a 4 hours of Dune sometimes stuff has to be left out. I like that Chani was hurt by Paul choosing to marry the Princess. I’ve seen Dune 2 three times already and the look on Chani’s face is heartbreaking. She was crushed also that he used the messiah lie to unite her people for revenge. I was ok with the Chani change.

I thought Zendaya was really good as Chani. I felt all of her emotion when Paul spoke about choosing Irulan as his wife, nonchalantly. The ability to show hurt and anger without screaming or crying has to be tough.

The Emperor was any old man walking around in a night gown.

My prediction re: Chani in Messiah is that she will be with Paul and love him, but will be the voice for the internal doubt and conflict he feels, his conscience as it were, since Villeneuve doesn’t do the internal monologue stuff that Lynch did. She will be Paul’s “anchor” so to speak. She will not be a part of any assassination attempts.

We want more full discussions with this team!!

Time to watch it for a 3rd time 🪱🪱🪱

I get why some of them are worried about the weirdness of Messiah but I feel they miss the mark on why Alia was changed. I just think it was too hard of a challenge to make a 2-3 year old reverend mother. We’re not talking about a 5-6 year old reverend mother but a literal baby who can fight talking like an old woman and killing the baron. If Christopher Walken took us out of the movie, imagine an accurate CGI heavy 2 year old Alia in this version of Dune. Or the other option was to make the time jump even longer than in the book and make a 6 year old Alia. Also the time jump would happen within the movie after the water of life which would have been clunky for the pacing. Personally, I understand the Alia change and we still get her strangeness, we get a talking fetus

It’s funny seeing how you guys really enjoy certain changes & aspects from the book but also how changes other potential scenes that you really missed or wished would happen. For example how y’all enjoyed the fetus Alia, but how also she wasn’t able to kill the Baron and its effects her eventual evil set up. We can only wait and see How Dennis plans to wrap this trilogy up and finish all of these arcs in his adaptation.

was hoping for this for while, thank you, each of you... its para-socially satisfying to see you all so happy and together 25k views in 5hours is great start & thank you for the 1000s of hours of DUNE lore between you 🌚🐀

I love dune and I love all of you. Long live the fighters!

excellently outstanding review and analysis , words cant describe the artistry of the cast, producer, writers, musical score writers and playing of music, sound, and graphic design, its like seeing STAR WARS in the 70s , just newer better equipment / tools to create such a stunning , amazing work of beauty as DUNE 1 and 2 both for the sci fi genre while adapting the novel and lore to a visual experience , Jackson achieved the same with LOTR and Hobbit for fantasy genre,,, my fav scene ? Paul asks Gurney how many nukes are in the cavern, Gurney says enough to blow up the whole damn planet, Chani spins her head to give a long dirty look at Gurney, doesnt speak, just stares, comical and humorous perhaps after Gurney notices the look/ stare and mumbles it was just a manner of speaking,, after considering the look she gives him ,her true feelings show to the audience , its her home, her people, and i think shes a perfect actress for that character , if im not mistaken she is carrying the god emperor Leto 2 at the ending, Deni will not skip anything, there will be a toddler Alia before Arya as Alia makes an appearance , might see both as flashbacks, , all sci fi movies have never had a problem designing worlds in different " sectors " of the universe where that worlds population exists, so we already seen, arrakis, geidi prime, caladan, the emperors planet, saudakar home planet, so 5 worlds when there are more to come in Messiah , hell arrakis turns into a jungle, killing the sandworms attempting to end spice production eventually by god emperor ( and thats early in the saga, maybe half way ) , how to fit millions of years of evolution into a trilogy ? cant be done,

wonderful discussion, this should play in cinemas right after the credits end :)

This was wonderful! Thank you!

I think the Chani reunion is an easy fix: The audience is in God Mode (seeing everything, including how he sees more now that he's taken the Water of Life and what he said to Jessica, that he sees, "a narrow way" that's less horrific than all the other horrific possible paths...), Chani wasn't privy to that, so even tough she was in the huge southern council chamber where he told the one Naib about his long-dead relative, she still doesn't get the extent of what that means (i.e. The Golden Path.) All Denis has to do is begin Messiah with Chani arriving at her Worm-Ride destination, walk into the sietch, and Paul is already there waiting for her because his prescience told him where she'd be and he took a thropter to beat her there. He explains what's up with his new super-prescience, the audience gets much needed at that point refresher exposition of what happened to him when he took the Water of Life, how he can't do what he needs to do without her, and we finally get that wonderful speech to her how Irulan will be wife in name only, and how she'll never know his touch, or one moment of desire, etc, from the end of the Dune novel, and they're reconciled. Then we get the absolutely required time jump, because without that, we never get the Alia/Hayt plot line that is so integral to the story. And no way does Denis allow anyone but Chani to give birth to Ghanima and Leto II. (I think that would be a bridge too far for every book reader including him.) Giving the younger generation of Fremen skepticism and Chani strength and agency with her being a Fedaykin instead of a Sayyadina, instead of the mostly one-note Freemen in the book, is far more believable. And after being humiliated by a Paul, who at that moment seems like a stranger, at the end of Dune 2, it would be weird if she didn't walk out (At least that's what I'd do if I were writing it, which I clearly am not.) As for Chani's blue Nezhoni scarf, which is worn my Fremen women who have given birth to a son, is likely only a nod to the book readers, considering having actually given birth would require Alia to have also been born, which she clearly hasn't. Now, perhaps keeping Alia in the womb was a later decision in the production process for whatever reason (an AI toddler was too much like the ETrade Baby commercials (and creepy AF), it's still a nice nod and I think moving it to her arm was just securing it so it wouldn't fly off her head. Regarding Danika's question: "Is Paul bad?" No. All paths are horrific. He's forced to choose the least horrific path. Please do a show on everything GRRM lifted from Dune for ASOIAF.

The Zendaya shade is unwarranted. Her character was the one that was the most changed up from the book. She did an amazing job with what she was given.

This was great. Thank you friends.

This is so rad!!! Been waiting for this meetup!

The last time I was this blown away by a movie was when I was 6 years old in '77 seing Star Wars for the first time. Read the books in Jr. High in the mid 80's and loved it ever since. Hollywood take note. Effects and explosions are cool, but intelligent scripts and great acting are what moveis are about.

This may be too cheesy for some, but since Count Fenring was an older generation attempt at the Kwizatz Haderach that didn't pan out, I was secretly hoping that Count Fenring would be in this movie played by Kyle MacLachlan.

Let's go! Monetize the f out of this YT! Great dialogue! Love all your insight. Can't wait to see it again. Y'all caught some things I missed. Btw I lolled when she said put your hand "in the box." I really missed the importance of the guild, the spice and all. But it's so bonkers, the nuclear threat to spice is like milk in the tea. It's a but easier for a lot of folks to take it. Messiah can get a chance to have more guild, since Edric helps.

I was so waiting for this but so much of the discussion was about a movie that don't exist (yet) and not the movie we all saw Great listen anyway From the land of the dessert it self chile!

Danika = Lady Jessica, Quinn = Paul. Thanks for this, Dune crew!

It seems like the guy in the top middle is the only one who understood the end of the movie…

I have seen soo many dune channels . But this channel is the only one I mess with

I love all these folks - but Elaines takes I always resonate the most with. This truly is the avengers of Dune Meetup and the folks way before the movies.

1:21:35 This is exactly the point I try to make to people who claim Paul is the "good guy" or the "bad guy". Both miss the point entirely. Paul is raised as a mentat, which essentially represent the superpower of the male archetype and has all the best male role models in his life who love him and guide him, he's raised in the way of Bene Gesserit by his mother, the most powerful organization in the universe and is the archetype for feminine power (both good and bad), he's born into nobility and leadership, he goes on to live among the most pragmatic and resilient people in the imperium who come to view him as their worthy leader (despite the Bene Gesserit mythology placed on the Fremen, Paul eventually earns their true allegiance), he becomes the Kwisatz Haderach - the most capable human being to ever live and is endlessly charismatic, and yet even he is unfit to wield such centralized power because no one is fit to do so. This is a book written by a man who publicly stated that Nixon was his favorite president because Nixon taught the American people to distrust presidents.

The spice must flow.

what an amazing livestream!!! I've been watching Danika for sooo long and I actually found you through her many years ago :))))) I remember when you had just started and I think you were a student, living with colleagues and were having to apologize for the noise in the background. So happy to have stuck along 😊

First, I love how Abu’s head is on top of Paul’s body, it looks trippy in the video. Second: I’d love a follow up video on Messiah adaption predictions. The first movie focused on the fall of house Atreides and Paul’s journey losing his family and finding his way to the desert. Part two focuses on Paul’s journey of building the religious arc of his story. What will part three focus on? Maybe the implications of prescience and whether seeing the future traps the seer - and how does Paul escape that Gom Jabar of prescience.

31:23 I thought it was strange they keep talking about honor when he is fighting drugged up starved prisoners with a shield on for most of that first fight.

Book ppl make me laugh so much sometimes. You guys literally want exposition dumps so bad for every adaptation.

I think the war on the great houses is an excellent opportunity to bring layer in a tv show. Have a cameo or two here or there of major characters, but have the story driven by a cast of side characters and each season sees another great house brought low by the Fremen and their allies. Fabulous world building opportunity while keeping the movies tight and agile.

Hahahaha the ‘it’s just woman 2 at that point’ line was missed and had me laughing out loud - don’t worry fella I heard it

i better hear some criticism of this movie......where did the guild go in part 2??

@47:00 there are a couple things to consider. 1. I think crying being the thing that we recognize most as grief is greatly sidelined here for all of the Fremen, 2. Maybe she would rather see Paul dead than leading a holy war against the galaxy. She is crying when Jessica forces her to comply with the prophecy. She has a lot of feelings about it. I don't think she doesn't love Paul enough in this scene, but she also loves her people and knows that Jessica is manipulating all of the southern Fremen into following Paul. And she absolutely does NOT want any part in this manipulation. It's an emotionally complicated situation.

The reason why the other houses didn't summit to Paul's will is because Vladimir Harkonen said to the houses that house Corino attacked house Harkonen out of nowhere, just like the Harkonen attacked house Atraides

They should let you guys do a feature for the BluRay collection or something. Going into the first movie, I didn't know anything about Dune except that there was an 80s movie and that everyone loved the books. I loved the movie and then immediately went on KZfaq to learn more. I watched a ton of the content by Quinn, Danika, Nerd Cookies, and others. You guys are awesome!

Paul Atreides is Erin Yeagar

This stream was so... strangley negative? Like, we obviously all agree that it's a great movie, but it feels like yall focus on every deviation from the books, and treat deviation from the books as inherently bad.

Awesome collaboration!

As far as inspiration, I tend to return to Olaf Stapledon's Last and First Men and Star Maker inspiring so much of the sf concerned with long-term future history and alterative sentient developments. I see his influence even more then the foundation series in the Dune books especially.

Channy is a mirror reflection of Paul's heart and what he's feeling

I like how Abu is lined up with the Paul photo in the background...

45:43 Christopher Walken can say “Moar!” in Sardaukar. Loved this discussion! Thank you all!

Thanks for the podcast