Especially if they start to require registration and tax etc

@@hw.lds08😂😂😂 shhhhh

Yeah I been looking at second hand surrons that are like 4 years old they seem too have lots of parts replaced already I wonder about the lifespan of these things

exactly, insurance ,registration will put people of getting an e bike imo

Registration and insurance should be required. Insurance should be compulsory for ALL road users. Push bikes and e-bikes are quite capable of causing significant damage to another vehicle or person safely how would you pay for that if it happened. Also, registration would put paid to much of the bad behaviour of cyclists who think they can’t be identified so can’t be held responsible for their behaviour ( jumping red lights, riding on pavement, general rudeness to other road users and total lack of consideration for other road users etc) Not all cyclists are like this I admit but there are enough to give you all a bad name.

panniers is absolute gold 🤣🤣🤣

@@2009MazdaRX8 the law is there to try and stop the idiots but if you ride responsibly no one is going to question you. But if you are ever in an RTC you may be found liable even if it is not your fault because your vehicle is illegal. ie if a car knock you off and causes damage to your bike and cause injury to you and then you try and claim against the drivers insurance the likelihood is they wont pay out

@Asparagus777-hw5ft That doesn't worry me at all. I don't live in the UK.

Alot of Uber delivery guys on bikes have a 700w back wheel

yeah but sensible bikers want to use their muscles still and not end up like a cabbage in later life

🤣

Yes!

really ? i have a visual impairment condition and this leaves me unable to obtain my license, which means i cannot get my provisional for a cbt to ride the likes of a surron. i’ve ridden dh mountain bikes and have been into mtb as a sport in general from a young age and im used to controlling a bike in fast situations but also feel as though im safe, Im aware of my limits of my eye condition and generally that’s in low light , id like to be able to travel at the same speed as general town traffic (30mph, on a flat surface i can achieve this anyway, feels much safer travelling at the same speed as cars rather than sticking to one side and having tonnes of cars overtake ). I already have insurance on my mountainbike which is both in case of theft but also public liability and personal accident, it only costs £7 a month most bloody people should have it as it can help one day ! my issue is id absolutely love a surron but being unable to register one is what holds me back. i feel plenty competent to handle a bike like this having had prior experience on some mates ones along with mx bikes. feels very restrictive, e bikes are great and there will obviously be people that will abuse them but that can’t be said for everyone

why would you of even surrender ill be suprised if they give it you back

@@dilz6998just go get a surron and ride it

Not been up steep enough hills, where 250w will really struggle, certainly won't reach 15mph. If they're going to have a speed limit in place then it doesn't need a motor limit (eg car engine size) so you could allow 500 or 1000w motors at 15mph, but seriously should be 20mph

@@hasan_z I used to live in Sheffield and believe me most hills there are 10% plus everywhere. Modifing my old commuter bike to a legal 250w pedal assist ebike transformed my daily journey to work. It showed an extra 440w input on the climbs just as long as I was putting some effort in. This changed me commute from a horrible sweaty breathless workout to an absolute breeze. 8 years later I am retired now and living somewhere much flatter but still using the same bike, the battery is dieing but it still has just enough juice to get me to the shops and back with ease. As long as you don't expect 250w ebike to behave like a 50cc motorcycle they are brilliant.

@@tommaguzzi1723 that's the loophole currently you can have 250w continuous power but a much higher peak power to kick in when needed

@@hasan_zpedal assist works for me. The peak power loop hole makes a 250w fine for riding 10% hills at 9 mph as long as I am prepared to pedal. Mine has a thumb throttle which is probably illegal since it powers the bike upto 15.5 mph ( on slight downhills) before it shuts off, but the bike could not climb a 10% hill unassisted at more than 4 mph even when the battery was new. The problem is once E bikes become so powerful they can motor at 30mph plus unassisted they will be treated as such by the law and subjected to all the statutory requirements of a motorcycle including, mots, lights, insurance, compulsory motorcycle helmets, not able to use cycle paths and shared pavements. So the real loophole here is pedal assist making a 250w ebike still being classed as a bicycle by the dvla.

Mine goes 32kmh at 500watt with a good thumb throttle it's perfectly safe and effective transport

Yes and I am 72 years old and load my Raleigh with 2 panniers of heavy shopping and encounter a steep hill on the way back . Bike is fine going up hill with pedal assist . Also my bike is 8 speed hub gear.

You’re old, every thing is fast compared to you

@@MuffinHunter69bro allow them

I live in the North East, I don’t know what the hills are like there but there’s no way at all I’m getting up the hill I live on with 250w

Hello to you, I also have heart failure and COPD and would love an eBike. Can you tell me what power and other numbers I should be looking out for, if anyone can help I'd be truly Grateful. Thanks then. Quentin

😂😂

Anything more complicated than socks will baffle the fu---rs.

I've heard they are well versed in pigs though (the true "Swine" version)

Ok class warrior :D:D:D

@@synkuk Some people stand up for themselves, others thank their abusers.

Regardless if the 250W power is pointless or not I guess most of us agree that double the power its decent and safe enough. After all ,accidents happen even with the push bikes, even when we’re walking, that doesn’t mean we should ban vehicles specially now with so much technology they put in pretty much everything. European union leaders are ruining all the fun in life because they care so much about our safety. Its all about how to reap more money from our pockets and I think is obvious. Same damn thing they do with drones and other good things in our lives.

The only benefit to a 250w motor is that its helps maintain your speed when you're tired.

@@zahaidrahman2052 Not at all. Its a massive benefit

Throttles will be dangerous. Many people just won’t bother pedalling. There’s a certain connection and responsibility with the need to pedal.

@@MisterAshbrook I live in an area surrounded by steep hills. I have a responsibility to my neck, back and joints when I'm trying to make it home struggling up a steep incline with sweat dripping down my face and a bag full of shopping on my back snagging on my shoulders. Most average car drivers can't even be bothered to walk to the shop 5-10 mins down the road let alone climb these hills and there's those who physically are unable to peddle like my dad who lost half his leg in a car accident when he was young. Plus there are days when I wanna get out for my own mental health without it having to feel like a workout or the fact a lot of jobs are on the other side of the city and I don't fancy peddling like a maniac to get to work for an hour each way and yet people are whizzing around on e-scooters which you could argue are even more dangerous. I can't afford one anyway. I can barely afford to maintain my pushbike which is currently a bit of a death trap and while I personally enjoy riding a bike for exercise and leisure I can immediately see the benefits having one of these would have for my mental health since I don't own a car and can't afford to get one plus it would literally increase my chances of finding work and expanding the radius in which I could travel. Also these e-bikes hit like 15.5mph. I can do 20-30mph+ easily on a regular bike whizzing downhill but if I'm focusing all my attention on peddling getting out of breath with wind and rain blowing in my face then the e-bike rider is gonna be a lot safer and react a lot faster to any potential hazards coming their way not to mention they often have thicker tires with better tread/traction where as one wrong move with my thin presta tyres and I could end up sliding under the tires of an oncoming vehicle. I've always rode safe though. I respect both pedestrians and the laws of the road but I can't say the same for a large percentage of car drivers who think it's ok to cut me off by turning in front of me or tryng to overtake on the opposite side of the road when the reason I'm in the middle of the road is cos I'm about to turn right and if I didn't naturally ride on the defensive and assume everyone's an asshole I would've been dead many times over by now. If people got out on their bikes more often this would all be common sense not to mention free up the burden on the NHS since everyone should be getting a minimum of 150mins cardio every week in order to reduce their risk of things like stroke/heart disease. Also just to note I'm not a skinny ass lycra wearing ''cyclist'' I'm just a guy who happens to ride a bike from time to time or at least I did before I broke it and then both my mental/physical health took a signifficant downturn cos I was unble to get out and about as much. Besides IF I wanted to break the law I could just as easily go get my hands on a stolen overpowered e-bike/motorbike/ped/car where as all I want is a simple legal route that doesn't involve jumping through lots of hoops or costing a fortune. When I hear about all these stupid rules and regulations it just makes me wanna go out and break the law all the more even though I try my best to be a good law abiding citizen most of the time, or at least do no harm cause no foul. There will always be those who go out and break the law but guess what? They're already out there doing it and they will mow you down all the same lol

I disagree they should be faster than bikes but slower than cars and motorcycles. They should be safe enough to ride in bike lanes so obviously not like 70kmh but 45kmh is fine

Oh please shut up. 😹

fed

Escooters are not classed as motorbikes, so I think it's fair to reinstate throttles up to 15mph on ebikes and still remain I. The bycycle category. They are much safer and allow people with limited mobility to get some exercise and rest when needed. Just my input as someone who has used one for 15 years

​@@urbanpuma9136the kid that slammed into me on a government scooter cost Nottingham city council 2k in damages because he slammed into at full speed facing the wrong direction looking at a piece of ass 4 lanes away they are dangerous! Getting hit by a fat person at 15mph on a slab weighing almost 15kg does a lot of damage and can easily breaks bones then add in no helmets or protection and they are a disaster waiting to happen..

@@printitpaintit.2436 I think rules on usage need to be implemented. Users should be aware of all road users and ride responsibly - this should be made law. In built up areas speed should be low. All vehicles are dangerous if used incorrectly and no way am I saying .escooters should be riding at full speed, same as ebikes and cyclists

Have my phone snatched out of my hands by someone on an e bike with no licence. Huge fan of powerful e bikes being registered and not free for all.

E bikes tend to be heavier than pure pedal bikes, so more danger to pedestrians, and strong brakes become more important.

@@scotlaughlin2487 pedestrians? I'm cycling on the road. If I'm concerned about hitting pedestrians then there's more immediate issues that are nothing to do with it being an e bike.

Pedestrians don't cross the road without looking where you ride? They do here. I think some see "not a car" don't notice my speed. I own five e-bikes, from low power 500w conversions to 1400w factory bikes. They weigh anywhere from 55 lbs to 140 lbs. Most of them could use more brakes to even match a typical road bike's stopping distance. If I hit a pedestrian, it's my fault in the eyes of the law, no matter how oblivious they were. If I hit them with the 140lb bike, they're going to be hurt worse than if hit by a roady on his 15lb carbon tour de france replica. Impact energy goes up as a square of speed, so if you're going twice as fast, you do four times the damage to whatever you hit. If your e-bike is only twice as heavy as a typical leisure bike, and you're going twice as fast (a couple of mine will hit 30 mph easily ) that's eight times the impact energy. Yes, E bikes need to meet higher standards than pedal bikes. @@anythingpeteives

@@scotlaughlin2487 so should any bike ridden by a heavier person also be restricted to 15.5 mph. Or any normal heavy bike. A phat bike, for instance. I've cycled for over 20 years and have never come even close to having an accident with a pedestrian crossing in front of me because I am aware of the potential hazards and of what my bicycle is capable of, stopping wise. If I couldn't avoid hitting a pedestrian even if I was doing say 20mph on an e bike then I shouldn't be cycling at all, in my view. Btw, I'm not advocating for e bikes to be allowed to go at 30mph legally. But 15.5 is painfully slow and, if you cannot avoid pedestrians stepping out onto the road when travelling at that speed then there's an issue with your ability as a cyclist.

you can cycle as fast as you like but motor assist needs to cut out at 25km per hour and no throttle other wise you become a motor/ped and then there are different rules....speed pedelec, 45km, helmet and registration & insurance and no use of cycle paths

Yea great suggestion mate. I would agree. 👍

People on road bikes pedal far faster than that.

@@piratecrusierfl true. I can pedel as fast as 30, however the gearing on the Raleigh eBike is only 4:1 and you can’t get the gears to change it (I wanted a bigger chainring than 44). I can comfortably sustain 20 without compromising blood pressure. My son has a full race/road bike and cab make 50 as it has higher ratio range.

@@herrtomas6729 then why limit it to only 20? I have a motor goat v3 on the way. Does over 40 with a rider my size. I bought this bike to save money going to work and maybe a little door dash or bike trails on the weekends. On my commute I have no choice but to ride in traffic because the road meets the ditch on both sides. In order to be safe I have to keep up. Sure I could have bought another motorcycle but that's defeating the entire purpose of getting an EV.

@@piratecrusierfl simply looking from the town/commuter viewpoint to safely cover everyone, starting from (I think it is) 14yr olds upwards from residential front door to school, work etc

lol. I’m not complaining. I’m just talking about a topic. I agree that hope tech 4’s are for mountain bikes however you cant deny that they are a performance upgrade that would out perform most stock pedal assist e-bikes. Personally I feel a lot safer on the Surron compared to my EAPC. That’s just my opinion. Another point I wish I had made is regarding people converting their standard pushbikes to e-bikes by bolting on hub motors and strapping on batteries.

I agree TECH 4s and everything that Hope produce is well above the standard parts that are fitted to most bicycles, however the Surrons are effectively electric motorbikes and need to be treated that way. On the subject of home conversions by adding a hub motor and little else, I have seen several very poor examples and cannot believe that people would actually ride them even before a motor was fitted, I also believe that these are the source of many fires which does nothing but give electric vehicles of all types a very bad name.

You cannot ride a surron legally in the uk on the roads without insurance and tax

I don't believe that is a legal version of it it does not have wall the lights you need and the paperwork and he understands that

@@SirLordCustardthe10th there is a uk legal one with number plate lights and indicators

ebiker, more often than not, the lazy cyclist

I completely agree with you mate. Congestion would be a huge factor. Great point. Thanks for your comment bro.

After a cyclist came off the pavement at high speed he ended up on my car bonnet, £420 damage to car and who had to pay yeah I DID, cyclists should at least have 3rd party insurance to be on a road.

I agree people should not be allowed to build their own ebike without registering it because the components have to be MUCH stronger! The motor and battery packs make the bike almost as heavy as a second rider so the frame, forks and rims have to be able to the extra weight and strain! Even shocks have to be ebike certified with stronger valves because of the extra weight so the home build kits that allow you to 50mph are definitely dangerous.. Not to mention most kits use cheap nasty batteries made in china that will burn your house down if given the opportunity! 🙈

Same here, herniated disc in my back and arthritis in joints. Just bought a 250w full suspension emtb so I can keep enjoying the MTB experience.

I totally agree with you mate. Hopefully this is just a step in the right direction and there is more to come.

Not everyopne can afford top spec.

Rohloff costs a grand alone

​@@johndumarney1630£1600+

I agree 250 watts can do it with some effort from the rider. At a push I would be ok if they upped it to 350 watts as I think anything beyond this is too much to feel safe, particularly around pedestrians

Yea I couldn’t agree more mate 👊

Totally agree 👊

If you are riding it on public roads in the same way as him, no that is not legal. Even if you weren't riding it in the same way (using the thumb throttle) and the motor is in excess of 250W max power output, again illegal if on public roads. Check the online listing for the retailer you purchased it from, it should say, as a disclaimer, that it is intended for use on private land. If you've been using yours on public roads you have been breaking the law and police can take it off you any time they want.

Hi, thanks for the reply - the max output is 192watts on the bike

@@andy211081 does it have it have a push button throttle and you have used that on public roads ?

Thank you 🙏

Yes.

They should be able to do 30mph just like a moped too

so 40 minutes testing in a 1.5 ton car, is not enough time to pass or fail someone to drive a 1.5 ton car. That's what you just said Dave. Remembering all the lessons that they've had driving a 1.5 ton car.

Not on the eyes of the law. You are riding with a motor way over the legal limit. That’s my argument, it would be great for the government to allow a limiter for public riding.

I would argue you have a motor 'rated at 250w but has a peak power of 2kw" these cargo bikes make that claim too. A Bosch cargoline motor is 850w or sometimes even 1250w but they say it is 'rated at 250w' Look up the motor spec, it's clearly a cheat to make them road legal for the UK

​@@utubeape the UK have a test of how peak wattage is measured over an 30 minutes sample and that is what discates the wattage rating

@@SirLordCustardthe10th so does that mean that you can buy a 2kw motor and as you pedal along a flat road you barely ever use its capacity it can qualify as a 250w?

I have a legal 1000w that comes limited to 250w (says 250w on the hub) it can be deresticted to 1000w for use on private property via the controller (have to change some settings) so it would depend on the nature of the limiter (a switch is a no) and perhaps, it might need to be factory built.... but I'm guessing here.

I agree. I think 250 should remain for ebikes and 350 for cargo bikes

Hahaha! - The Fast and The Furious - 😂😂 Perhaps if your bike had more power you wouldn't need to pedal so furiously. 🤣🤣

Yes I’m fairly sure

Nope. get caught riding it on a public road it'll get crushed.

@@mobi1etone so it's no good for uk roads ?

@@waynefraser6808 'ATTENTION. Please be aware that this ebike model is only legal for use in private road. The throttle is unlocked when delivered and the motor is 750W.'

More people die from talking selfies than shark attacks.

I think you'll find that there are more because the stats only refer to killed out right or die within a set time from point of impact. It does not include those who die a few days after.

​@@funkycowie OK... perhaps, but I suspect that would make the car figure even higher than the bicycle one.

Any ebike over 250w and 15mph is classed as a motor vehicle. You'd need MoT etc. too ride on road legally.

The biggest problem is kids riding around on these, full balaclavas, no helmet, no license, no insurance. They have no regard for the road laws. From what I have seen, they are just dangerous. It’s a shame as these are now replacing kids on a mountain bike.

😮😮😮😮 no way!!!! That’s extortionate. It’s frustrating as the government is pushing for transport to become more green but then you are being completely shafted by insurance companies.

Definitely!! Hopefully this is just the start with better things to come!!!

They are not. They are asking the wrong questions to avoid building proper cycling infrastructure.

Fit a solid tyre...

Put slime gel in the inner tube and take another inner tube and cut the inner diameter side and use it as protection for the first one. So basically you cover the inner tube with another one. You will never have puncture again except if is cut by shard of glass. It worked for me very well. And I had 14 kg of batteries on the rear and a 8kg hub motor and I weight 90kg

Tell that to my Grandpa

I totally agree with you mate. 👊

I guess 🤷

the cars on the road are chaos.

i seen many cars go through reds, in fact i not seen a cyclist go direct through a red to the other side. and i been driving 35 years, so stop making it up.

@tonyrichardson2637 I'm not making it up about cyclists running red lights. It's epidemic in London and I've seen it with my own eyes. Yes motorists do run red lights but nowhere near the amount cyclists do. Yes, I appreciate there are many responsible cyclists around, I was one for many years but there is a certain group of cyclists that totally disregard the rules and can be a problem.

I have the same experience with fat tyre e-bike. I find it’s the look of the Surron. It does look like a moto x bike and people just jump to conclusions. 99% of people I come across love it. You know the story of the other 1% lol

@@southcoastsurron yea there are just some people that abuse the Ron that's why they have a bad name

Great point and I agree

🤣🤣🤣

in the USA they have 3 classes of E bikes, they can have 750w output, 20 mph peddle throttle. class 3 is peddle upto 28 mph, never had a problem. they are no were near mopeds or motorbikes. 750 watts is a puny 1 hp, i used ride motorbikes 90 times more powerfull. if they introduce registration, ect then kiss goodby to e bikes, or trying to get people out of cars.

😂

👍

If you passed your test before Feb 2001, you don’t need to do a CBT as far as I’m aware

@southcoastsurron that's good news, mate 👍🏾

@@southcoastsurron cheers 🍻