The four of you should do this once a month; seriously!

I agree with Mel. I remember reading Next Gen magazine which marketed itself as the more intelligent & sophisticated publication with its lengthy interviews and thoughtful articles. But then I remember thinking to myself, "why are the writers being so hard on Sega? why do they seem to be bashing the development of Saturn Daytona and Virtua Fighter?" It just didn't seem to be fair.... Anyways gentlemen, thank-you again for the conversation, It really takes me back in time to 1995/96.......

39:10 - Virtua Fighter was amazing. My friends and I played that more than VF2. We loved unlocking Dural, and both games had some great for their time environments. -Later- Daytona USA - I still own both of my copies. My Aunt and Uncle bought me a copy. I didn't even have the heart to tell them I already had one, as it came as a present from my parents. Alongside a triple-pack-in W VF2 and VC, and VC2. My parents bought me VF along side that console for my birthday in '97. I was probably the only kid nearby that had one, and to also get Panzer Dragoon II Zwei fairly shortly after that. Just needed a new Sonic the Hedgehog game to complete the early portion of the collection.

The Saturn Homebrew scene fills me with a ton of excitement, from seeing what devs can squeeze out of the 32x with things like what's been done to Doom, I feel we'll be seeing the Saturn get pushed to ways we hoped to have seen more of back in the day. Fun listen guys.

So many great points! Something I think about is how Japanese view of gaming was so much different than in the west. Going back to the video game crash of 1983. After that point the older generation had a negative look on the video game world and when the NES came to America it was marketed towards kids. Sega of America took advantage of that and targeted kids that were growing up. Sony of america took it a step further by targeting all the adults that viewed the others as for kids bringing in a much greater audience and in turn had a much more commercial approach However in Japan video games never had a negative stereotype and were very much excepted socially. So Japanese games were made for a wider audience. Adults and children in mind. Add to the fact that Japanese have undeniably been the kings of quality games through the 90s and beyond, it leads you to consider the Saturn to be one of the most high quality consoles ever made

I'm listening to your podcast now, you guys are absolutely correct, 100%!!!! I'm in Canada and I've always been a fan of Sega arcade games and I was blown away from day #1 when I first saw and heard VF1 and Daytona running on Saturn. I saw the flickering in VF1 and the draw distance in Daytona but I could not care less. It was that special Sega arcade experience at home and that's what mattered the most!!!!! My jaw dropped as I listened to "Roooolling Staaaaaaart" and heard that powerful Gallop car engine noise, I was simply amazed!! And thinking back to the Genesis vs Super Nintendo, even when Sega was doing well and putting out excellent games in the 16 bit era, the gaming press (especially EGM reviewers) I think always had a bias towards Nintendo. I think it was a natural progression to keep bashing Sega when Sony entered the picture.

So glad that Saturn heavyweights are coming together.

....Thanks, I also totally agree with Dan re. when Sega rolled out Sega Rally, VF2, Virtua Cop, the gaming press would seem to 'grudgingly' acknowledge Sega's developers. It always seemed to be a backhanded compliment. It was frustrating to see this treatment of Sega in the Western gaming press.

I went with PS1 back when I was a kid and my parents asked me which system I wanted. I didn't actually discover the Saturn Library until i learned about emulation. I haver become a huge fan of it's all original library. Stuff that you cannot find anywhere else including Steam. Dragon Force II and Shining the Holy Ark are some of my all time favorite games now.

The old 2D vs 3D problem is core to its issues. I understand it’s tricky for you guys, as you’re fully aware of Saturns 3D abilities, yet a chunk of your audience wants to see/hear that ‘2D experience’. Now I’ll be first to direct SNK/Capcom fans to Saturn, superior software for sure in the one on one fighting game arena. This 2D myth mostly comes from here, despite use of additional hardware that gets lost in the communication. When it comes to 2D games in general, is the Saturn superior? Do games like Abes Odyssey, Rapid Reload, Strider 2 and many PS1 exclusives not offer at the very least an equal amount (I would argue greater) of 2D games? 2D ability, stemming from its architecture, is a separate aspect. The Saturn does have greater 2D abilities, VDP2 the classic example. What is ironic is that these infinite planes are mostly used in 3D games, John Lineman is spot on to suggest it’s Saturn’s ace card. It is pseudo 3D, but no less more pseudo then the flat trees in Gran Turismo or the sprites in Mario Kart 64. VDP1- quads, sprites, polygons!?!You see what you see. Could the many sprites in Dragon Force be recreated on PS1? I think there would be a good chance. Are distorted sprites not true 3D- I don’t care when I’m running around the caverns of Tomb Raider or the terrain of Irreal. So Saturn is a 2D powerhouse and shit at 3D, so says the media. As I write a ‘new’ homebrew 2D Sonic game is said to have ‘Saturn vibes’ However, in summary, Saturns 2D games library is not so amazing compared to PS1s. Additional hardware is required to enhance or even play some 2D titles. Despite have 2D centric VDPs, these are used to create 3D worlds as good as any in that generation. If you agree with that summary then I’m sure you would agree that over excitement and long discussion on the ‘2D powerhouse’, or 2D prowress’ or ‘2D jewel’ just fuels the problem further? I’m not suggesting we don’t celebrate 2D’ness, but Instead of having these excitable conversations about 2D on Saturn, should we not tone this down or at least have a caveat to equally talk about in relation to 3D. I feel this needs to happen in order to help educate the wider retro community. You fellas are all at the top end of Saturn media, and I’m enjoying. Keep up the good work

You guys are so right!

I think Sega was very successful in developing hardware with software for the Saturn. Out of the 5th generation, I’m fairly certain Saturn was the first console with a 3D light gun game and had that light gun accessory to market before Sony. I’m also sure Sega was the first to commercially have a steering wheel available for that 5th generation consumer market, while the rest of that generation wouldn’t deliver their alternative until later or never. I think this is a testament to the R&D devisions at Sega

I'm from the UK and was around 11 or 12 when the Saturn landed in the UK. I remember all my friends at school saying the Saturn was rubbish way before it was even released. They got that opinion from game magazines or other places. So I fully understand and agree with what you are saying here.

The Saturn is about to have its life, buckle up fellas.

Excellent episode guys!

@22:56 Magazine companies haven't changed much. Bad games get at least a 7/10 if they are in-league with a particular console company.

The guy that said Sega was the darling one moment and not the next hit the nail on the head. I was in 7th grade when Saturn came out and I don’t think the Saturn was the issue per se, it was the damage done to the brand by the 32x and SegaCd. I loved Sega and read all the mags and even i was confused at the time at what the difference was between the 32x and Saturn and I remember people talking major trash about Sega because of those two failures and people questioning whether Sega would give proper support to the Saturn in the long term support. To win back customer sentiment they would have need blockbuster games and/or blockbuster hardware and the Saturn upon release had neither and thus was easy to dismiss. I love Sega but at the time they of the Saturn they kind of deserved the hate. The 32x/segacd burned and confused a lot of people. The Dreamcast a phenomenal mea culpa and even though it wasn’t a huge success it did change the negative opinion of Sega in the US Imo

Great chat lads. The big takeaway from me were Dan's comments on community. The challenges I've taken part in or run myself have given me such a great new love for some games. Anyone who knows me will know I didn't like Outrun as a kid. But the community showing it off made me retry it recently and I've been able to get better and complete it and now it's one of my favourite racers of all time. Community really is key! Totally use passwords and cheats to zip about to record game footage sometimes 😂 Never to pass off as me being good though!

Again, as explicitly stated, the psychology of sales by retailers was at play big time. Playstation had a lower price, don't have to work as hard to get one. The consumer had the false idea of more for less, more software to get folks back into the stores so maybe they buy more things later on, eye level. ETC. It's like why AMD and NVIDIA make so many different chips and graphics cards and fixed price points. They know which ones that are gonna be targeted.

SLX in the house!

Interesting chat lads (I haven't quite made it all the way to the end yet). I must admit, I was a real graphics whore back in the day and as much as I loved Daytona USA in the arcade, I just couldn't see past the disappointing visuals on the Saturn version (especially as the Saturn was prohibitively expensive over here in the UK when it first released). I know there's an argument to be made about the fact that if you look past the 20fps (actually 17fps for us in PAL regions & letterboxed to boot) and pop-in, you've got a very decent representation of the arcade version underneath. What frustrates me _so much_ though is the fact that arcade racing ports just a short while later (most notably Sega Rally and the later Daytona USA Championship Edition) proved the Saturn _could_ do excellent 30fps graphics which much less pop-in. I can't help but wonder, if Sega had just left OG Daytona in the oven for a bit longer to develop, instead of rush releasing it for the Saturn's launch, whether we could've got a game with all the excellent gameplay features of the OG Saturn Daytona, but with a 30fps refresh rate and less pop-in (and a 2 player split-screen mode).

So True you hit the nail on the head lads 😁

💯!

Hey, because all of these allegations that the Saturn failed, I was probably able to get mine for ~100 USD (late '90s money, tbf) over the counter along with a question whether I was sure I didn't really want a Dreamcast instead. Bruh! 'Eck no, I'd just found about that Shining Force III existed! Saturn me the F up! (I think I got it together with Bubble Bobble. At some point I also had (have? haven't checked) Die Hard Trilogy and Myst. Not sure where I got Shining Force III from, but I remember - *vividly* - that it came in the mail with the read side caked over with strawberry jam.)

nice guests !

Sega Lord X is right about the AVGN. Some years ago he did a two-part video of SNES Vs. Genesis and those videos are full of misinformation (good misinformation about the SNES and bad misinformation about the Genesis, of course) and they are 100% biased towards the SNES, it's one of the few AVGN videos from back in the day that I really disliked

the media went after the Dreamcast as well, early doors against the ps2 before the ps2 had even launched, then from the inside Microsoft looked to nudge the system over the cliff and take its place. I often wonder if Saturn looks different with better documentation fro third parties, 4 mb ram cartridge and mpeg card become mainstream expansions. Sony scam for ps2 did the same trick with the bouncer as was done with battle arena. what about Saturn after launch panzer dragoon 2 , last Bronx, street fighter zero 3