"Jax isn't a sad boy with a rough shell, he literally hates you" that's basically what his character is about

Michael doesn't deserve to be harassed just because people are angry at this character. I hope toxic fans just leave him alone.

I already knew Jax is a jerk from the pilot and i don't understand why people simp for him, but you know who else is a big Tumblr sexy man before Jax? It was William Afton the child murderer from five nights at Freddy's. Yeah for some reason the fandom simps for evil purple men in rabbit suits.

I just find it really funny how people thought Jax was gonna be a sarcastic jerk and that he had a heart and actually cared for some of the other circus members while in actuality he's just a deplorable little shit that allowed a monster to destroy an entire kingdom because he was feeling silly and when he didn't get to kill anyone himself he was so incredibly disappointed. I hope Gooseworx makes him commit an actual war crime on screen and it's not played for laughs or jokes and it makes everyone go "what the hell is wrong with you" when they see him do it !! As someone who spends a lot of time in fandom spaces, I get it, I sometimes latch to my headcanons and forget they aren't canon, but it's mostly just for their appearances and actions, like J from Murder Drones, I headcanon her as being Chubby since I saw fanart where she was so my brain just defaulted to that so whenever I see Canon and see she isn't Chubby I go "Why aren't you fat... Oh yeah I forgot"

I compare a lot of discourse of someone going to a place that makes burgers and gets mad they don’t sell tacos

It feels like Digital Circus is a commentary on gaming in general in which case Jax seems to be to be a commentary and reflection of the general gamer who just wants the violence and does not care about the effect it has on others.

They thought they would get Sans, a lovable, jokey nihilist with an existential crisis, who's secretly protective. Instead they got Flowey, a sociopathic jerk who's willing and excited to hurt others and cause chaos because he's perpetually bored and knows he can get away with it because nothing he does 'really' matters.

bruh im bi and saying that just because a character that happens to be bi is also a cult leader is "demonizing bisexuality" is so stupid im sorry

As someone who only just recently watched TADC for the first time, I find it extremely funny that episode 2 was the point where a lot of people started disliking Jax, because to me, that was the point were he became my favorite character (for now anyways). I guess I kinda saw episode 2 as a DnD campaign and from that perspective, Jax is basically that one chaotic evil murder hobo who just wants to wreck everything in sight, DM's plans be damned. Yeah, he'd probably be absolutely insufferable to actually be around or play with, but I'll be damned if I don't think it's funny.

As someone who’s been a Jax hater from the start, this has been an interesting experience for me. I hated him because of how he treated Gangle, plain and simple. When the second episode was released I actually appreciated his character for being an unlikable asshole instead of a “he’s just misunderstood” (which I would have screamed into a pillow if that was the reason) Something I was shocked about was the people that turned on Jax, were his simps. For a good minute I thought “Oh good, people aren’t simping for him anymore and seeing his red flags” only to be slapped in the face with how this is apparently character assassination?!

Sometimes I wonder if people get upset about an asshole just being an asshole because A) you’d have to explain to yourself why you liked a character that was an asshole, which may require introspection that they aren’t willing to spare, B) they see an asshole and think “there’s gotta be a reason, some depth that makes him somewhat understandable”, cause in their heads, they rationalize that people don’t just start out as an asshole, and/or C) they’re just really into the “asshole that secretly has goodness in their hearts” trope, so they’re disappointed that an asshole is just an asshole. I think more than anything, looking at the roots of inspiration, “I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream”, it may help clarify why certain things are the way they are. Circumstances are unfair, characters are assholes just cause they’re assholes, NO ONE is really happy in this world, and that’s purposeful. There’s not really meant to be a silver lining in every character. Plus… genuine thing: what’s more realistic, an asshole that’s secretly nice when you pry hard enough and you’re somehow lucky enough to see it, and somehow you’re able to build a better bond after that, or a guy is just a dick and a bit of a sadist, and you don’t really get to find that “better part”, because it just ain’t there, or it isn’t what you expected. Also, isn’t a character that’s just an asshole just as interesting? Like, you can wonder “why the fuck are they like this” without having to rationalize bad behavior, and you can enjoy an asshole character without trying to pardon them. Sometime’s an asshole is just an asshole, and you don’t have to condone a character’s bad behavior to enjoy it.

Fandoms are about meeting people with a common interest. You just shouldn't expect to be friends with everyone and it also doesn't mean the safety rules of the real world don't apply!

"If you like Undertale, play Deltarune!" -Duke Nukem

fandoms can be a double edge sword. For any community. They can be the most sweetest and supportive group. Or most vile and miserable group. I get some people can be very supportive towards something but it can develop into something possessive. Thats what I think is happening for these characters. I agree these people had high standards of these characters and when their are different from their headcannons, blood is gonna be spill. Some people can’t accept something be just silly headcannon. Ugh don’t get be started on the shipping. People can go too far. As a shipper myself, it’s embarrassing.

I feel like people are too impatient with these sort of things

I found the hatred for episode 2 Jax to be stupid. When I saw him in the pilot I could tell he was meant to be a jerkass Bugs Bunny. So, when I saw him in episode 2, I laughed at how much of an asshole he was!

tbh i actively want jax to get worse as a person. i just like the narrative of The Worst Guy Of All Time being subjected to computer-generated horrors beyond his comprehension

It will never stop being funny to me that people were so down bad over a pair of floating glasses that they were downright betrayed and hurt when Hotel Transylvania revealed he wasn't this drop dead prettyboy they tricked themselves into believing he was.

Wonderful video as always Apollo. I didn't know people were upset about Jax, especially when it's pretty consistent with episode one. Him leaving Pomni and Ragatha behind, constantly trying to annoy or get under someone's skin. In general, I feel like yeah, it's only episode 2, the character hasn't deviated or shown us anything different from the previous episode, and the main MC even seems to dislike him. All in all that's just how the character is. Sometimes you're meant to dislike someone in shows, I feel like there's a bit of viewer entitlement going on of wanting everything the same, which doesn't make for entertaining media.

I really enjoy engaging in fandom, fan created works is how I've been introduced to some of my favorite pieces of media. I believe that engaging in fandom is about keeping a careful balance in who you interact with.

Even though Jax is a menace, I still love him. Not because he’s a good person (because he really isn’t) but because he is kinda silly

the Jax controversy feels exactly like the Stella controversy. I'll give you the skinny. in Helluva Boss, there's a character named Stella. she's the arranged wife of Stolas. after his affair with Blitz, she's been beyond pissed at him. in season 1, we only ever saw her angry at Stolas for what he did, but she never said she was mad because he slept with someone other than her. I'll get back to that in a minute. when season 1 drew to a close, fans started developing a headcanon for Stella, depicting her as the victim in the situation. however, Season 2 confirmed that her and Stolas's marriage never had any love at all, and him cheating on her felt like an act of triumph. yet now the fans were pissy because Stella isn't the way she was in their headcanons. and now something very similar is happening with Jax.

I have been in fandom spaces for many years and I have seen my fair share of chronically online people going out of their way harassing people for shipping, policing people over fan art, and making unnecessary callout post on random users just for following someone that they don't like. I wish there is a rule online where if you're in a fandom don't make it as a personality to the point it will hurt other people. I have see people leaving fandom because of these chronically online people and it make me sad. Fandom is meant to be fun and a small escape.

11:45 What you say in this part also reminds me of the TOH community when Hunter was introduced, and a lot of people started shipping him with Edric, Amity's brother, for the mere fact that 1: they thought it was cute and 2: they both ware the same age, but then they were pissed off with the revelation that Hunter and Willow would be endgame, hating the ship for whatever reason like the age difference(two years, which isn't a big deal), the fact that it was "forced" (at the time they had only two to three episodes together) or that the it was "homophobic" because many headcanons have him as gay without even a confirmation from Dana (same thing with Willow, I literally saw people saying she was a lesbian but there was never any confirmation of that!)! and now it is confirmed that Hunter is bi and Willow is pan. Seriously, I thought Hunter x Edric was cute, but at the same time they NEVER interacted, so it wasn't a very likely ship.

New fandom theory: your cat is so charming that she becomes a cult leader

From my personal experiences, fandoms have never been fun. Just enjoy the shows, movies, and games you love without engaging with terminally online people. You'll be much happier.

Probably the saddest part of the fandom's reaction is that Gooseworx actually anticipated this with their video "POMNI WAKE UP TIME TO GO ON AN ADVENTURE" when Cain mentioned the "violent shipping wars that we'll be powerless to do anything about!"

The Fandom and Jax reminds me a lot of how the cricket was to Jack Horner in Puss in Boots the Last Wish. Cricket was acting as Jack's conscious and tried to see any good in him. Meanwhile Jack was this despicable monster who didn't care for anyone. Not his employees, not animals, not the cricket, etc. His "tragic backstory" was he grew up with "useless crap" like having a good family and a thriving business. Also he was willing to sh00t a puppy (Yeah, in the face! Why?) Then when Cricket found out he's an irredeemable monster, Jack's like "Oh oh, what took you so long, idiot!!" Yeah that's what this reminds me of. The fandom WANTS to see good in Jax and meanwhile Jax would be the type to tell his fans "What took you so long?"

Im sorry, but getting angry about something that was REMOVED before release or about something not fitting in with ones headcannon is just too much for me. The thing was removed/didnt even make it to fruition. It doesnt exist. Its finished already. Its not even beating a dead horse, its digging for bones. Then beating up the bones because the bones once stood next to a person who would eventually turn into a criminal. It just doesnt make sense unless you dont care whether it makes sense or not.

And you didn't even mention WD Gaster, the Undertale character whose only canon existence is being a super rare easter egg that instantly vanishes when you try to talk to him (and the entity that does that isn't even 100% confirmed to be him), meanwhile the fandom has gone wild with this guy making him into his own brand of Tumblr Sexyman/Troubled Scientist. Frankly I hope Toby Fox never had any plans for him, because it's guaranteed that they won't meet the fandom's expectations of him. Personally I hope he ends up with more of a funky creachur aura

People can't ever be mad because that show is not ever over yet like there are only two episodes.

This is why I like Madness Combat. The creator (Krinkels) frequently interacts with the fan community by hosting Twitch streams.

5:38 genuinely got psychic damage from mettatons face

I remember watching TADC, and taking a what character are you quiz, and getting Jax, and honestly being shocked by it. Cannon vs Fannon was something I think I clued in on for the series very early on, even if I didn't realize it

This is why it's risky to do the thing that Goose and Vivziepop did: Put a pilot out for the internet, and then let it sit there like a rotting lemon. By the time you actually get to release ANYTHING else related to the series, the internet will already have stolen your show from you and you can either play into their expectations or face the wrath of an angry mob who didn't get what they were expecting. And the longer you make them wait, the more intense the reactions will be when something doesn't look like they wanted it to

One of the worst elements of modern fandom is the weird sense of ownership over the work to the point that they feel entitled to demand that the creators bend to their whims, and if/when they don't, they resort to all kinds of nastiness. I didn't think it'd ever get worse or more petty than the old "90% of the pros came from fandom & all have beef with each other" scene in comic books, but at least they weren't doxxing each other & threatening death as a default reaction. It's honestly something that makes someone (i.e. me) not want to share any creative work, since that kind of fan conduct just kinda feel inevitable.

It's a bit weird to hear that people think episode 2 Jax is different from episode 1. So far the character has been pretty consistent.

3:55 I do find it a bit funny that people view/viewed Sans as sexy, since he never came across to me like romance was something he cared about (though that is also my own headcanon, of course)

I remember how this happened with the RWBY trailers it was insane to watch as people created a whole fandom cannon from a poster with silhouettes and music and slowly this fan made fandom grew upset as more information was parsed out with a large chunk of people feeling betrayed when the first episode was released cause they made this echo chamber and convinced themselves that this is what the show was going to be.

I, for one, LOVE where the crew is taking Jax. It's been so long since we've gotten an asshole character. Not these fake-out, sad-boy, i-can-fix-him types we've had recently. Jax so far is an asshole with his whole chest and I am LIVING for it.

If people can’t accept Jax for who he is, they don’t deserve him. It’s the “I can fix him” mentality at it again. Next up we should talk about how rude male characters are treated better than rude female characters.

Honestly Jax being a total asshole (and later on becoming a clear antagonist) is only putting his chances of him becomeing the next massive tumblr sexy man higher and higher (as appose of what I heard people say for some reasons), like even if tumblr sexy men where all these uwu ideal and cute man who is just a good person/boyfriend inside or something, which is defitely not the case, many of those who are the depicted this way by the fandom are actually the worst person in the source material; Examples: William Afton, Bill Cipher, Blackhat, literally any villian who becomes a sexy man (the cases of these characters are all not cases either but you get the point is a common one), my point is, what ends up turning some of these characters "atractive" is in fact that in a creative aspect is a really funny challenge trying to come with how a version of this character who is "irredeemable" in their source material could be like if they were "not that bad", and I think beyond the trope "I can fix him" but more towards a creative challenge kinda way where considering as many posibilities and stick with the one that appeals the most to each individual, that or people also just like villains to the point they want to date them because they are villians. Jax could fall in any of these cases if his character keeps going to that direction and as you said it "stays as a fan favorite" instead of all the other way around, which I dont get why I have seen people say that, but who knows, as you keept reappeating in the video the series has only 2 episodes so far and the final direction it might take is complitely unknown at this point

Jax: acts like a jackass since the first episode Fans: how could they character assassinate my favorite purple rebbat!

I remember watching Moon Bunnies' video on Jax, and that practically set up my expectations for the character. Even so, prior to knowing a thing about Jax, I knew he must've been based on abusive boyfriends just from the psychological traits he has in common with them, particularly his outward expression of psychopathy. People who use humor to deflect bad situations, particularly those like the Blue Turtle from Rise of TMNT (I think his name was Leonitalo?) know that you should not cross certain lines with certain people, but Jax has managed to cross through everyone's boundaries. Jax is not humorous. He routinely hurts multiple other members of the circus and deliberately works everyone else to an Abstractisizing level. He does not care for others. He never did, and he probably never will. Genuine Psychopathy is nothing like ADHD, OCD, or Autism, it is something that requires an incredible amount of work to get through and unfortunately, it is unlikely anyone, particularly Caine, could ever give Jax that kind of support.

Honestly, I do love being part of fandom. And I really do appreciate it (yes even the NSFW stuff). And ut makes me sad to see how purity culture is taking it over. Its getting harder and harder to just. Have fun. Play around with morally gray or even straight up evil characters. Mess around with characters like they're toys in a sand pit. Examine them closely under a microscope and pick them apart to see how they tick. Fantasise about how you or your special little OC would handle being in this world or that situation is with these characters. Working out how the story would change if this or that was different. They police ships, content and even which characters you like. They forget the principles that fansom has survived on: Ship and let ship, Don't like don't read, YKINMKATOK. And its really frustrating.

Hey, I love Jax 'cause he's an ass. Guess what guys? He stayed an ass. I can't believe it. Shocking. Horrific. Character's being in character is the most deplorable thing to ever happen.

I feel like a big part of the “bullying creators to get what they want” scenario stems from what happened with the first Sonic movie. People saw that if they barked loud enough, they could get creators to change what they want changed. They fail to realize that Sonic’s design was changed out of fear of profit loss because it was Paramount helming the distribution. This should not work with indie productions as creative freedom should lie with the creators, not the mob of fake fans

I like how Jax isn’t the tumblr sexy man 90% want and was just a mischievous little rabbit, I prefer this over whatever people thought Jax was gonna be

Personally, I don't really care about fandoms, because I know you'd find quite a few oddball characters in it. Especially when said people can potentially hinder my enjoyment out of the media in question Most recently I watched an anime called "The Quintessential Quintuplets" (call me basic, I don't care) out of boredom at first, and actually became quite invested in it, I do know that if I told people I was watching it they'd either tell me it's bad or call my tastes basic or whatever but I enjoy what I enjoy and I ain't letting nobody tell me otherwise (Even though I question some choices in that show's writing) But when it comes to Digital Circus, I also tend not to care about the fandom and instead just let the canon writers... ya know, canonically write. Bottom line, just enjoy what you enjoy, let the writers and show runners cook, and don't let people put ideas about media in your head Also welcome to the Cat Mama Club

Your animation of your OC is really smooth! Also congratulations on a new cat!

Personally, I’m very glad I checked out Goose’s Tumblr when the show first blew up. They’ve been very open about the kind of characterization they have intended from the start with characters like Jax and Gangle, basing them off of Poppy the Performer (Poppy and Kendamono, specifically.) It really helped me temper my expectations for Jax being a sadistic, seemingly heartless, ill-intentioned character, and it made watching Episode Two not be a surprise when he showed more of that sour personality off. I’m with you, I LOVE that Goose is sticking to their guns, even if I’ll always love the asshole-who’s-secretly-a-softie/has-a-heart trope. I do think it’s important to remember how YOUNG a lot of people are consuming TADC- that doesn’t excuse bratty, entitled behavior fully, of course, but I know my media literacy has only grown with my age. A lot of these kids will, with any luck and plenty of varied experiences, grow out of these narrow-minded lenses for what characters can and can’t do, or can and should be.

Do you know what this reminds me of? Stella from Helluva Boss! A LOT of people hate how she is written because it goes against what THEY wanted her to be, an innocent victim who LOVED Stolas instead of the vulgar, spoiled, cruel woman who was FORCEDLY married to him by their families! Seriously, nothing in the show indicated that she even loved Stolas, she's clearly more pissed off that he humiliated her in front of her friends and that he had an affair with an Imp (a low-class demon), not that she was " betrayed" by Stolas, because for there to be betrayal there would have to be some kind of connection between the two people, but that was never the case and to this day there are people whining about it just because she is not an innocent person that many wanted. yeah, cheating is bad, but remember, SHE IS ABUSIVE!! ABUSE AGAINST MEN EXISTS AND SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS IF IT WAS NOT A SERIOUS THING!! Honestly, I have zero sympathy for abusers and I always had the impression that she was always aggressive towards him before the betrayal because she simply attacks him and everyone acts as if this was a common occurrence. Plus the fact that she always ignores Octivia! Seriously, people have to stop acting like their headcanon about her is correct!!

I find it funny how a character called jax, which sounds a lot like jackass and has plenty of reason to think of him as a jackass in the pilot is in fact the jackass of the group... hmm, interesting

Jax is apparently also on his way to Tumblr sexy man status

What I find intriguing about expectations in fandoms is the observations I've made within the Sonic and TMNT fan communities. In the Sonic fandom, most characters have distinct personalities that fans appreciate, but some have been simplified, like Tails being portrayed as lacking self-confidence,even though he has already gone through his character arc. This and lacking purpose was the problem with Tails in the 2010s (the Meta era as fans call it). Then in Sonic Forces, Tails regressed in his character,fans got pissed and in Frontiers,Sonic reminded Tails what he did and is going through his arc again,a move appreciated by fans including myself. This shows how fan expectations can impact character evolution in a good way. Sonic himself has unique adaptations, but they were all meant to be Sonic at the time, except for the Movie Sonic and '90s cartoons. The '90s cartoons had a loose connection to the original games, but some core characteristics like Sonic's desire for freedom remained consistent. It’s funny because Sega's attempt to establish rules through Prime and IDW comics has sparked further debate among fans, with some choosing to disregard the established rules altogether. Despite complexities, having different interpretations of Sonic is not necessarily negative. As a Sonic fan, I believe there's a way to work out these interpretations. Before delving into TMNT, it's important to clarify how the universes operate. The crossover movie "Turtles Forever" was created some time ago and may no longer be considered canon, but it still holds relevance until an official remake is produced. According to the movie, Mirage Comics serves as the original universe, with all other TMNT universes existing as alternate timelines. For instance, 2012 Michelangelo differs from Mirage Mikey, but both are versions of Mike (does that make sense?): Now, transitioning to my main point: The TMNT characters are based on established archetypes, and different versions either adhere to these archetypes or deviate from them. Rise of the TMNT aims to challenge these archetypes, as seen in the portrayal of Raphael. In Rise of the TMNT, Raph is depicted as a ruff and tumble but caring leader . He now assumes the role of the older brother, with being hyper-aggressive rather than angry-aggressive. It makes you think how much a character can be changed. Another point: The relationship dynamic between characters like Mike and Rapheal in the 2012 TMNT fandom have sparked debates on whether certain behaviours are justified or not. This has caused some fans to see the relationship as abusive, while others see it as great,it gets you to think. Interpretations of traits and whatever else affect the media and the fandom,for example in the Rise movie,Donnie is shown to want to choose when he is touched but some people took this and thought he didn’t like touch at all even though the show disproves this. Last points: Since April and Casey are support characters,the way they are treated in fandom is interesting: 1. As a support for the turtles,there are other characters but I think they aren't known and/or have much of an impact as them. 2.As characters in the story,think of the Idw comics for example (or 2012 cause that's more known). This middle ground of them being a part of the turtles story but also their own can work pretty well and I like it more than them just being support characters. 3. Having their own story/being the main character: I know it's not exactly the same thing but they both take a character who while they can have their own stories and/or arcs,are now the focus,I like this too. My final point is this weird shipping thing with Casey,April and the turtles: Since April is a girl, some people annoyingly expect her to date one of the turtles,even if that April is an adult,though that is more outside of the fandom,inside April is at least a teen or is portrayed in a non-romantic way. Other people ship her with a girl,Eg Karai and some of course ship her with Casey (except Rise Casey Jr would be non romantic because Casey Jr grew up with the future April). Casey is the same when it comes to shipping except since he is a male character,he can be used as an anti-April ship or can have more importance than her (though there's fics where April is important and Casey is ignored). It's weird you can ship 2012 Casey and Donatello but not Rise Casey Jr and Donnie,anyway those are my thoughts on how expectations affect characters in fandoms I'm in.

Fans: Jax is going to like angel dust a secret sad boy Jax: I don't care about any of you I just want to see funny things happen to people

Sans appearance in Deltarune after years of fanon sans was what saved the character for me. Because it reminded me that Toby was around for Homestuck’s meta comedy and wrote him perfectly for an audience packed with expectations. He’s still the same lazybones with some good jokes, some light hints at deeper lore, and the flirtation with his own meta-awarness of what’s going on is exactly how you keep popular fan character the same when they return

People who were freaking out over Jax fall into two categories depending on if he'll ever have sweeter layers. 1) impatient baboons. It's only episode 2. We are not gonna get a look at any possible good side he has so early. 2) People who just cannot/refuse to read the room. I'm pretty sure Jax is probably just gonna be an awful jerk to everyone the whole run. It does not matter if he looks sad sometimes, when his consistant action is to be terrible to everyone instead of being a friend.

0:18 When you started talking about a franchise's fandom eclipsing the franchise itself, I immediately thought of Warrior Cats.

As a Star Wars fan, it gets so annoying when people have such high expectations and then get angry when what they theorize didn’t happen. Or in Ninjago’s case, when Lloyd became the Green Ninja instead of Kai. Look, I love trying to imagine and theorize what might happen, and even if what I want to happen doesn’t happen, it doesn’t change my excitement about what I’m watching. At the end of the day, it’s all fun and fiction. And sometimes the unexpected is better because it shows that the writers aren’t as predictable.

In my opinion, the main 3 characters in tadc are based on the 3 most common video game player archetypes, from what I’ve seen as a genshin player who goes online a lot. Ragatha would be the one who does as told, sticks on the path, the lawful good player. Pomni would be the new player, needing help from others and doing the weirdest shit, and getting attached to some of the npcs, and Jax would be the murder hobo imma kill everyone I see player :3

I love Jax, now hate me cuz I love chaotic characters that make me laugh.

YAYYY YOU AND DUCHESS CELESTIA POSTED TODAY! TODAY IS A GOOD DAY

I will say this, if people can like Big Jack Horner from Puss in Boots 2 for being an unapologetic jerk they can like Jax for being an unapologetic jerk

The dream daddy fandom could never handle revolutionary girl utena

I felt this in the helluva boss fandom with Stella. Fans were pissed because their fan theories about her weren’t canon. Fans felt she would have a certain emotional depth but were upset when season 2 came out and turns out she’s been horrible since childhood. Her marriage was arranged, she was awful to stolas before he cheated. She enjoyed insulting him as a husband and man. She admits she enjoyed tormenting him when asked why she hangs around the castle when they’re in the process of a divorce. She hired a hit man to kill him. Fans saying this was character assassination I don’t get cuz till season 2 we had little to go on for her character. All we knew was she was angry at Stolas for cheating, hired a hit man to kill him, and has an anger problem. That’s it. There was a long gap between season 1 and 2 enough for fans to have theories and that’s fine, it’s fun. But when your theory is wrong, it doesn’t mean the character was ruined. Sure there are times when a fan theory may be a better idea than what happens in canon, but for characters that are almost a blank slate for character development, theories are there to fill in blanks. Some are close to canon, some are way off. But it’s all in fun. I can’t blame people for being disappointed if their theories are wrong cuz I get that, but to then say ‘oh the story is bad, or the character was ruined’ is a leap. Helluva boss as well as Viv in general have genuine criticism that is valid and if her stories or characters aren’t your liking, that’s fine, but just because a character you felt would go one way instead of another, doesn’t mean the character was ruined. Especially if that character wasn’t fully developed, the creator already had an idea how that character would be.

What's funny about this to me is that I didn't like Jax from the get go. Seemed to be designed on purpose to be disliked actually, like, a character you're supposed to hate but later maybe find out they are much more complex and possibly even redeamable in some way. But like... come on, he was written as a total asshole. I never understood people who had this weird attraction to him as a character from episode one.

The nice thing about headcanons is that even if theyre not actually canon, they still get to exist. Though it is still always fun when theories become canon

Woah! I can’t believe I’m this early!

I have learned that the only "fandom" you need is a small circle of your mutuals in whatever social media you meet up in, a tissue, a penny, and a potato chip. I'm in the TADC fandom and I never heard of anyone in my circle complaining about Jax or sending harassment.

part of the problem, i feel, is the increasing tendency of building people to not want their preconceptions challenged. if this is how they react to fictional works because they're hellbent on everything being perfectly predictable and comfortable, god knows how they react to real-life situations...

Can't watch this yet, BUT, I will say just because a very vocal minority of a community is... questionable, doesn't mean the rest are like that. I'm an unapologetic member of both the Undertale and OMORI communities, so I probably know that better than most. Just because some people say one thing, doesn't mean everybody thinks it, let alone *should.* Just because some people are being a pain, that doesn't mean all of them are scum. In my experience, many of them are genuinely amazing people, even if I don't actually know them. Sorry about that, hehe, just needed to get it out of my system.

I wasn't ever expecting Jax to be a kind, good soul. He's a terrible guy, but in the pilot he was clever. In episode two he's just kinda violent. Since we are only on episode two, I'll just chalk it up to writing. I just hope we get to see Jax being more clever in the future.

I remember there being something with Sonic fans on twitter that had the actual creators saying “Hey stop it”.

omg, this reminds me of how the fnaf fanon bastardized william afton, they portray him as a loving father who only killed because of some made up sad backstory, while he canonically is basically a monster, a freak, a psycho and most importantly an abusive father who beat, experimented on and tried to kill his children

This is likely going straight to the bottom of the comment section, but IDK. While I will agree with your last point, in that "Creatives don't listen to their fans as much as we may think," I still can't help but consider the possibility that power dynamic may be slowly shifting. One good example of this would have to be the "Sonic Movie situation." For those unaware, Sonic was originally going to look drastically different then what we currently recieved, right up until massive fan backlash resulted in the film being delayed so they can make a more appealing design. Had Paramount and the creatives behind the film not listen to the criticism regarding the design, it's likely the film would have retained the old design; and possibly not be as big a sensation as it was. Another example of fans having some influence over the product is regarding "SVTFOE" and how Daron Nefcy began to prioritize shipping over her actual story. I feel this goes without saying, but "Star Vs" has one of the least-conclusive conclusions to a story ever written; with many of them being attributed to Nefcy's shortcomings as a writer. It's hard to say how much of the fanbase fed into these shortcomings, but if you pay attention to the rate of shipping-related episodes and plot-centric episodes appear, you can see a shift corresponding to the former appears more frequently than the ladder; likely when these shipping wars were reaching their peak. I don't want this comment to be too long, so I'll leave off with this: if these past few years have proved anything, with massive film studios like Disney or Warner Bros loosing millions, it's that fans are realizing that they have more power over the industry than they realize. With fans providing a project's main source of income, creatives will need to ride that line between their own creative vision and fan-expectations.

Honestly I was expecting (and to an extent hoping for) Jax to be an absolute war criminal, so I'm happy.

If no one is going to say it I am. The miraculous fandom writes miraculous ladybug better than the show.

I really hate to say it, but with some fandoms it gets so bad because the creators themselves act pretty childish. (Like Vivziepop vague tweeting about her anger all the time, for example... Why did she basically insinuate everyone who doesn't like dark humor and cursing as a joke is stupid or struggling mentally? Lol, ma'am you don't have to "feel sorry" for us. People are just gonna be different than you. That's life.) They should probably be more of a role model with their followings, but they don't. So the younger members of the fandom see the behavior as okay.

This is the danger of parasocial relationships. There needs to be a serious scientific study in the mentality of fandoms. Now phantoms can be great, but sometimes this kind of crap is just terrifying.

Gooseworx: "Only the strongest Jax fans will survive this series." Many people missed SERIES, and thought they only meant ep 2. Jax has been confirmed to be WORSE.

yeah but after this, stuff like theories started popping up about Jax being an NPC which is funny and dumb asf, and their proof is the merch but they forget the fact kinger has a room for himself but doesn't enter in.

the whole thing on not letting fandom perception dictate what you think of media is so real; i swore to myself that i wouldn't get into Undertale because of the things i'd heard about the fandom, but then the bone-boy himself dragged me by my hair, unfortunately, but i actually found a pretty nice side of the fandom to hunker down in, not to mention the fandom has calmed down a LOT since it's baby years. sometimes you just have to swim a little deeper into the trench to find that secret cove, ya know?

Fandoms, to me, will always be the worst part of any media. Although good-intentioned, I personally feel a lot of people in fandom spaces tend to admire to a fault. Make no mistake, It is perfectly fine to like something, even passionately ( I myself can be guilty for having strong opinions on video games like Mario Kart, for instance ), but I do think that it can be very easy to latch onto something too quickly and without making an educated judgement, only to be disappointed that they didn't meet our rushed expectations... It's why I often tend to wait a good while before I decide whether the community is right for me, especially with media that's considered the flavour of the month. I still like the media shown to me ( I like a lot of the TADC characters, namely Pomni, and Jax because I knew he was intentionally designed to be an asshole ), but I think people need to separate the fandom from the media and realise you don't need to be part of the community in order to like it, nor should we be forced to share the same mindset/opinions; Same as we do with separating the art from the artist...

Gosh this is reminding me of the Portal fandom’s obsession with turning all the robots human. It got to the point where people saw the humanized characters, decided to play the game, and were confused and disappointed when the characters were robots. I remember one post where a person talked about how they thought that SURELY there must be a plot twist later on where it turns out these robots were actually controlled by humans the whole time, and were disappointed when that didn’t happen. (It also got exhausting being in the fandom when the humanizations were so expected that people wouldn’t even tell you if they were writing human AUs-you would start reading a fic and suddenly Wheatley references having two eyes, or hands, and then you realize “ah, this is an AU.” For a while, I had to specify that my own fics did NOT feature humanizations because people just… expected you to make the characters human. It was wild.)

When I heard people were mad abt Jax I was so confused, like he’s BEEN an a-hole where have you been?

A fandom would always be a classic fandom no matter what property become immediately popular! Also, very pretty cat! (17:20) 🐈

People forget that fiction is fiction sometimes. I remember this one post on Reddit asking about whether or not the child of a human and half-giant would be mechanically human. You’re writing the story! You get to decide how it works.

I love Jax so much and my brain was so worried they would tone him down, but they didn’t and I love him even more❤

i never heard of that dream daddy controversy. All i knew was what the gaming youtubes were playing (mainly the craig route before moving on) and thats it

(stares off into space as I look back on the Helluva Boss fandom post-The Circus) Yeah, I can relate.

What I got out of Jax that he has that same chaotic energy that Max from Sam and Max has.

I love that people hate Jax in this case because he killed a bunch of NPCs who, in the same episode, have been established to not matter and their existence past what the crew sees isnt even proven to exist. Gummigoo has no mom, the majority of the candy people are just mannequins, and theres a literal dev room with all the available models in the level assets, im fairly certain that when they leave the world either resets or goes into stasis. The entire point of the episode is that Pomni is the only one who doesnt know trying to help these things is fruitless and dumb, Jax is just the other end of the spectrum having fun messing with and brutalizing things that have no real soul. Its like a kid figuring out the goofiest way to kill/torture a minecraft villager or a GTA cop lol

Letting fandom and fanon influence my perception of a show before I've gotten a chance to see it is something I feared would happen with Hazbin Hotel. So instead of fully diving into everything the fandom had to offer during the years of waiting I did my best to keep my interactions with the fandom to what I considered enough for me. I stayed away from HuskerDust. At first I didn't care for it but after a while I saw the potential and appeal for the ship but I never let myself get invested because I realized if I did I would've let the fanon throw my expectations out of whack and set me up for failure once the show premiered. I think it's great fans can keep their enthusiasm while they wait for indie projects to come out but I think it's also the people who never give themselves a break from the fandom that set these expectations too high or end up skewing their perception of what the actual show and characters are because they've been creating fanon in their minds for so long.

People thought Jax was nice or misunderstood? He was a jerk and not even a jerk with a heart of gold.

I believe that sometimes it’s due to the fanbase being so vocal about a way they want to see a character in a certain way that people actually start to believe it to be cannon

My observations of Fandom Culture at large leads me to feel like this particular type of case is about less what did happen and was undone but more like what "seemed" to be happening but didn’t. Fandom loves the hypothetical. The theories, the speculation. A lot of it is very personalized even when fans come together to pitch their own takes. As such, there’s a personal investment factor in these malleable concepts that’s distinct from engaging in the hardwared canon. It’s a sandbox where the material you’re working with can be molded into what suits you. Canon can be too often, “Here it is: take it or leave it.” Fanon is more accomadating to those who might want to change things. Bare in mind, I’m not trying to advocate for one or the other here. Fanon depends on canon, warts and all, and a Fandom can’t flourish without it period. But sometimes we mistake Fanon for what should happen and ignore the innate placeholder status they have. Thus Canon is seen as an intrusion when, well, it’s just the show itself.

*Cough, cough* Steven Universe

Bro I LITTRALLY NEVER EVEN NOTICED A CHANGE IN JAX IT WAS WHAT I EXPECTED AND I STILL LOVE HIM HE'S A LOVABLE ASSHOLE WHO ISN'T BEJNG VERY REDEEMABLE RIGHT NOW AND I STILL THINK THIS IS A VERY COOL CHARACTER LIKE GUYS LOOK CAN PEOPLE NOT SEE THIS WORK OF ART HE'S HORRIBLE IN A BEAUTIFUL WAY

I like to casually ship characters together but I can acknowledge when it's separate from the original work. I won't get disappointed by a ship not being canon or a character not being originally who I thought they were( I knew Jax was a jerk from beginning that was no surprise to me.) There is no reason to get up in arms or harass a creator because it's not going exactly the way you want it. People need to try instead of harassing a creator why not create a different media that is based off of that original idea but it goes the way you want it to, just an idea.