Folding Ideas - End of Evangelion and the Audience Author Membrane

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Folding Ideas

Folding Ideas

8 жыл бұрын

Originally uploaded to Blip.TV February 26, 2013
In retrospect making this video was a big turning point for me as a writer. Earlier drafts of the script leaned much more on performative shock at the weirdness and general inscrutability of the movie, but the more I worked on it, the more times I sat through the movie looking for clips and things to talk about, the more I started to see End of Evangelion not just as an extension of a show that I enjoyed, but as the legitimately brilliant and impacting film that it is.

Пікірлер: 739
@brreelu5005
@brreelu5005 8 жыл бұрын
"Well I guess he does at least have one climax" I DIED
@aturchomicz821
@aturchomicz821 2 жыл бұрын
God-💀
@kumatorahaltmanndreemurr
@kumatorahaltmanndreemurr Жыл бұрын
So did Asuka :/
@---rm8do
@---rm8do 3 жыл бұрын
Hey, 5 years late. Aum Shinrikyo, the group that did the sarin gas attacks, recruited heavily from the otaku base as well, which may have affected Anno.
@aturchomicz821
@aturchomicz821 2 жыл бұрын
bruh😬
@jinxed7915
@jinxed7915 2 жыл бұрын
Makes sense, but yikes
@Worthless1010
@Worthless1010 Жыл бұрын
Literally identical tactics to recruiting gamers to the alt right
@virionspiral
@virionspiral 5 күн бұрын
​@@Worthless1010 lonely isolated young males. It's a common demographic to try and pull from
@skeletonwizard708
@skeletonwizard708 6 жыл бұрын
Just wanted to say, your bit about Self Acceptance and Self Worth in this video actually spurred me to seek help for my depression. Thank you for your work.
@paulworkswellwithothers9735
@paulworkswellwithothers9735 5 жыл бұрын
hey how are you doing now
@rozalindachesebro
@rozalindachesebro 4 жыл бұрын
@caitilinploof214
@caitilinploof214 3 жыл бұрын
Hey it’s been three years, I hope that you’re still doing well and that things have improved for you.
@alexm7627
@alexm7627 3 жыл бұрын
You can't love others as God intends if you dont love yourself, im glad you went to get help bro
@robmar1014
@robmar1014 8 жыл бұрын
The most telling scene from the film is the theater with all the guys waiting for the film. Intercut with text asking "Are you happy?" (if I remember correctly). Then it cuts to an empty theater.
@drakemarsaly6644
@drakemarsaly6644 3 жыл бұрын
Jesus, I literally remember looking this up and everyone just said it was some commentary on consumer culture or whatever, can't believe I missed this!
@mosquitopyjamas9048
@mosquitopyjamas9048 2 жыл бұрын
One of the guys flips the bird at the camera too. Layers!
@AspelShuyin
@AspelShuyin 8 жыл бұрын
I feel that the whole "Anno is a troll" is kind of surface level. I mean, it's not "trolling", it's being incredibly critical of the fans. Anno isn't like Miyazaki, where the relationship with otaku culture is one of animosity. He self-describes himself as an otaku. He wants to please the fans while still chiding them. He's not a troll, standing naked atop a mountain dick flapping, middle fingers raised. He's the guy saying "Isn't it kinda fucked up how we masturbate to girls in comas?" I mean, Shinji isn't just the fan surrogate, he's also the *author* surrogate.
@ThePatrick9a
@ThePatrick9a 8 жыл бұрын
I think you might have gotten the names mixed up. Anno was the one who treated otaku culture with animosity. That was the very reason he made NGE in the first place. NGE was a critique on otaku culture while exploring other topics.
@AspelShuyin
@AspelShuyin 8 жыл бұрын
Miyazaki hates otaku culture. Anno doesn't. Anno has mixed feelings, but doesn't outright hate otaku. Being critical of it doesn't mean having animosity towards it. Eva wasn't even meant to be critical of otaku culture, just a deconstruction of robot anime.
@tvsonicserbia5140
@tvsonicserbia5140 7 жыл бұрын
to fair though, miyazaki is an otaku in denial
@yadbor
@yadbor 7 жыл бұрын
Probably fairer to say a recovered otaku.
@Micho55
@Micho55 7 жыл бұрын
Rory Walker Except for the fact that the main theme of EoE (and a lot of the show) is a critique of escapism that is inherent in otaku culture. Anno even went as far as to compare otakus to Aum Shinrikyo cultists at one point, so I wouldn't say he's so indifferent on the topic.
@TheAdammast
@TheAdammast 7 жыл бұрын
I want to point out two things that go directly against some of the things you said about The End of Evangelion. 1. The preview of the next episode at the end of episode 24 director's cut explicitly show that the ending that we got in The End of Evangelion was their intended ending to the series. I for one love the shows ending, but to say that it was their first choice for an ending is not truthful. We only got the shows ending because of time and budget restraints that forced them to cut their original ending. 2. The translations in The End of Evangelion are notorious for being misleading in crucial points. One such point is where Shinji decides to reject instrumentality. You argue that it was because he wanted others to feel pain again. This is due to the bad translation and I don't blame you coming to that conclusion. A more truthful reason is that he realized that a world without others (which is what he thought he wanted) was basically a world of nothing, where even his own existence meant nothing. And so he rejects instrumentality to allow others to live again because as he put it, "At the time, I know my feelings were real." He accepts the fact that others may hurt him, but he'd rather have a world with others than without.
@pulpodesigner
@pulpodesigner 7 жыл бұрын
I really agree with you, nice point of view. I guess I'll rewatch Evangelion for the fifth time, after all.
@dirt420
@dirt420 7 жыл бұрын
👌👌👌
@Guadeloop
@Guadeloop 7 жыл бұрын
There's nothing unclear about the second part of your comment in the movie. Shinji almost literally says "a world without others was basically a world of nothing", I don't know how you can miss that really.
@Dougurasufilm
@Dougurasufilm 7 жыл бұрын
You have been watching the remastered versions of these episodes. Try and find the original non-director's cut episodes and watch the preview then. No images of End of Eva are shown there. End of Evangelion was not storyboarded or written as it ended up being at the moment episode 24 went to air. What IS interesting is that some elements in episode 25 and 26 (which btw didn't receive a director's cut) have a few shots of Ritsuko and Misato having died which match End of Evangelion. The question is, though, were those shots made because they were already planning EoE or was End of Evangelion written in such a way to incorporate those images?
@dontusemynameasshole
@dontusemynameasshole 7 жыл бұрын
Just wanted to let you know that point 1 is factually incorrect; the remastered, rereleased version of ETV have EoE cuts edited into the next episode previews. The originals, unmastered, which aired in Japan do not have cuts to EoE. That said, E-TV does have quick flash image cuts of IIRC Misato and Ritsiko both in their final resting places at the end of episode 25. So, there is SOME evidence that Anno had some inkling to his mind-cannon, but Anno himself has stated EoE only entered development after the ending of the show was met with critical HATE
@jessica2575
@jessica2575 8 жыл бұрын
When Shinji rejects instrumentality he does so in spite of fear because he learns that individuality, love, and growth are worth it.
@cestroke4899
@cestroke4899 4 жыл бұрын
and so the end of the TV show is an excerpt of what happens during instrumentality and they didn't bother showing it in its entirety again in the movie. how could this guy have missed this lol
4 жыл бұрын
@@cestroke4899 Like some others have pointed out in this coment section, it could have been a problem of translation.
@franciscofarias6385
@franciscofarias6385 3 жыл бұрын
@@athenemcqueen2545 i think you are the one being naive. There's no happily ever after. Finding out you are your own person is the easy part, now you have to live with this everyday. When Shinji came out of the Instrumentaluzation (I think that was the name) and Asuka was there he felt a visceral reaction because she had seen the deepest of his soul and she was there to eternally judge him. But now he had to live with it, with her knowing he masturbated over her comatose body
@alexscriabin
@alexscriabin 3 жыл бұрын
@@cestroke4899 did you watch EoE? Shinji ••••••••••s to completion over Asuka's comatose body in the film and not the show.
@alexm7627
@alexm7627 3 жыл бұрын
Loving yourself is important, you can't really love others if you don't love yourself, but, the answer to shinji's problems which i related to, are found simply in Jesus, because he gave me new life and a new perspective and saved me from myself, he is the hope that evangelion doesn't point to but at the same time, the show unknowingly points to Jesus in a way since evangelion means "good news" basically its a reference to the news about Christ, even though the christian symbols in the series are there because "they look cool"
@valsauramaa5817
@valsauramaa5817 7 жыл бұрын
My opinion of Eva changes depending on whether or not I'm in the middle of a depressive episode, so I watch an episode now & again as a sort of barometer of my mental health. If it makes me laugh, I'm fine. If I think it's a work of art that ties religious ecstasy to madness using the themes of adolescence, trauma, & isolation, can't stop talking about during my increasingly rare social outings, & begin to work again on my dissertation on depictions of PTSD in media, it's time to up the dosage.
@kevinscales
@kevinscales 5 жыл бұрын
I think if you laugh you have gone too far the other way and may be in the manic stage
@TeknoSquirrel
@TeknoSquirrel 4 жыл бұрын
@@kevinscales When the congratulation scene hit I started laughing out loud uncontrollably.
@obscure.reference
@obscure.reference 3 жыл бұрын
compulsive jaywalker nice scene
@MarilynMalkovich
@MarilynMalkovich Жыл бұрын
That sounds like an awful way to live.
@cjboyo
@cjboyo Жыл бұрын
Sorry this is old, but this is fucking hilarious. I will say the ending of Eva is basically a depiction of how EMDR feels to me. Lol sorry, I meant the final episode of NGE, not the movie
@emilmullerv3519
@emilmullerv3519 3 жыл бұрын
I think a message was greatly changed in the version you got, the translation I watched didn’t implied that shinji rejected Evangelion because he wanted people to suffer but because he wanted other people EVEN if it meant that he and others could be hurt by that otterness
@TheGangsterousG
@TheGangsterousG 2 жыл бұрын
Exactly! The key calculation he makes is whether having boundaries between people - and thus individuality - is worth the pain and trauma it necessarily creates. He ultimately decides that it is. That final scene with Auska and strangulation, her affection in return, and then her calling him disgusting, is the perfect encapsulation of the the key struggle of the show. *chef's kiss*.
@aturchomicz821
@aturchomicz821 2 жыл бұрын
ok zoomer /s
@CrimsionVision
@CrimsionVision 2 жыл бұрын
Late to ask this but which sub implied he wanted others to suffer?
@emilmullerv3519
@emilmullerv3519 2 жыл бұрын
@@CrimsionVision the one referenced in the video
@zumabbar
@zumabbar Жыл бұрын
since Dan's watching with English sub, did you also watch it with English sub (so maybe different wordings from different translators) or another language?
@Netherfly
@Netherfly 7 жыл бұрын
Gotta disagree about the first 10 episodes. Even with just the first episode it was apparent that EVA was like nothing else before. The construction of the scenes, the dialog, the pacing... was all very alien to the medium. And I'd argue it still feels very alien. From the very beginning the focus of EVA was very much on Shinji's psychology. Other aspects of the show may have changed over time, but that focus was unwavering.
@timothymclean
@timothymclean 4 жыл бұрын
"More generic" != generic. The first half of Evangelion was closer to traditional mecha anime than the second half.
@tomemeornottomeme1864
@tomemeornottomeme1864 2 жыл бұрын
@@timothymclean Oh of course, Evangelion does sort of trick you into a false sense of familiarity, but I’d argue that the MIDDLE does that, not the beginning. The first moments of Evangelion are very disconcerting - the ghostly visage of Rei, the oddly realistic apocalyptic setting, the incredibly cinematic cinematography/directing/editing. Every comedic, typically-anime moment gives way to self-reflective monologues or offputting psychological montages. The first battle isn’t Shinji learning to find his inner warrior or something, it’s a monstrous biomechanical being going feral and ripping its opponent apart, psychologically scarring Shinji. The middle, or the Action Arc, downplays a lot of these more disconcerting elements as the show feels like it’s falling into a very episodic slice of life mecha and nothing is- HOLY SHIT SHINJI JUST DIED? NO HE’S ALIVE? WAIT? WHAT’S HAPPENING? HIS MOM’S IN 01? IS REI HIS MOM? WAIT- and then it all comes tumbling down after that, pun not intended.
@Googaliemoogalie
@Googaliemoogalie 2 жыл бұрын
Especially that the first episode featured a fight you didn't even see until the 2nd episode flashback that was traumatizing to the main character
@ZedAmadeus
@ZedAmadeus Жыл бұрын
I mean, maybe the first few episodes, but after the combat arc starts, the show only sprinkles interesting things on top of some pretty boring non-stop mecha fighting.
@Whippersnapper310
@Whippersnapper310 8 жыл бұрын
I agree with pretty much your assessment of the original television series except for your dismissal of the first half as the series as that of a more generic mecha show. While it's undoubtedly true that the real meat of Evangelion occurs in the latter half, I think there's quite a lot of interesting details to pick out from the first half of the series. First off there's an abundance of foreshadowing that occurs in the first few episodes that would suggest that much more of the plot seems to have remained intact from the development changes than you inferred in your argument. Secondly there's the masterful cinematography in directing that the show employs to great effect in terms of world and character building, as well as plot development to some extent. Even despite budget issues, the care and subtlety that went into the development of the show puts it far above the majority of its peers, even when considering the early episodes alone. As for your interpretation of the End of Evangelion movie, I disagree much more strongly. Anno certainly puts more of himself into his work than most other authors and while his own views on the anime industry and otaku culture make its way into the show and the movie, I don't believe that his criticisms become the driving force behind it entirely. After all, Anno more than anyone could empathize with the otaku fan base, having similar interests and passions himself. He didn't hate his fans, just some of their attitudes and actions, and the messages in EoE are ones that he was hoping fans would take home and use to improve themselves. It's definitely an element of the movie, but it's not the overarching message. The overall message and themes change very little between the television show and the movie. The presentation is vastly different, and the End of Evangelion does leave a more bleak conclusion on the surface. However, just like in the show, the final message is one of hope. Those that exist within the Sea of LCL are able to exist in their own perfect existence, but one devoid of any individuality or sense of self. At the same time Rei/Lillith has allowed all souls to return should they choose, to brave the struggles of human interaction despite the pain it may cause. This, as the overall message of the series dictates, is the 'right' thing to do and Shinji and Asuka are the first two individuals to return. Shinji strangles Asuka because he is simply not in a sane frame of mind and by strangling her, like he did in instrumentality, he is able to affirm his sense of reality. But it also shows that he's changed. A strong, decisive, malicious physical act is not something that Shinji would have done by his own free will earlier. Similarly, Asuka caressing his cheek is not a response she would have had earlier in the series either. From these actions it's as if their characters have been reversed, but to each other it shows that they have finally developed a gegree of understanding for each other. It's this that causes Shinji to break down and cry. Humanity has some unfavorable elements ("how disgusting") but life is worth living regardless. Despite everything that's happened there are two humans left that have a new understanding of each other and are, most importantly, alive. Therefore EoE as a conclusion, while darker, is still somewhat hopeful. "Anywhere can be paradise, as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy. As long as the Sun, the Moon, and the Earth exist, everything will be alright." Overall though, a really thoughtful analysis. Liked and subscribed.
@zeon_zaku
@zeon_zaku 5 жыл бұрын
I agree with your thoughts. In my opinion End of Evangelion seems, like the "real" side of the show's ending. The show's ending is more in Shinji's mind. And I processed them simultaneous events.
@abdullahbahabri7077
@abdullahbahabri7077 5 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for sharing your insightful thoughts.
@mymo82
@mymo82 4 жыл бұрын
I completely agree with your observations.
@timothymclean
@timothymclean 4 жыл бұрын
"More generic" != generic. The first half of Evangelion was closer to traditional mecha anime than the second half. I'm not familiar enough with Evangelion to comment on your other statements.
@deltoroperdedor3166
@deltoroperdedor3166 4 жыл бұрын
Maybe I didn't pay enough attention to it, but Asuka seemed lifeless at the beginning of the last scene and begins to move her hand and eyes during the strangulation, which, in my opinion, seemed to be imply that Shinji was "rewinding" back to the moment that made started the merge of consciousness. But then, what should the "disgusting" retort signify?
@maxwhitworth9178
@maxwhitworth9178 7 жыл бұрын
I was always under the impression that 25/26 took place during the beginning of Instrumentality (Namely, when Shinji is stuck in the Lance), except instead of being an objective view of the world, it was what Shinji was experiencing in that moment. Yeah? Am I wrong?
@MarrowChiller
@MarrowChiller 7 жыл бұрын
I would say you're on the mark. The movie overtly references the numbers and names of the final two episodes over the course of the film, and the anime episodes are prefaced with a message saying that it was an examination of Shinji's personal experience with Instrumentality.
@evandyck3839
@evandyck3839 3 жыл бұрын
yeah i honestly believe both endings go hand and hand and both are the intended endings! they compliment each other beautifully. Things like shinji jacking off and him later choking asuka are much more complex of moments for his character than simply “it’s revenge to the fans.”
@IDontLikePplPlayinOnMyPhone
@IDontLikePplPlayinOnMyPhone Жыл бұрын
That’s how I always understood it
@mandarinduck
@mandarinduck 3 жыл бұрын
1. Gundam always gets brought up as an example of the generic mecha anime that Eva is upending but it's really not the case. Gundam created the whole subgenre of "real robot," mecha that are treated as military vehicles/weapons as opposed to essentially tools for superheroes who fight monsters every week, which was the "super robot" genre. Incidentally that's the genre that Eva deconstructs. 2. I think the TV ending wraps up Shinji's character journey well, but it left literally else hanging and that's why it felt unsatisfying, especially on first watch. It's like telling a fable but instead of the ending, you just state the theme. "So the wolf arrives at the third pig's house, which was made out of bricks, and that's why hardwork and dedication are important."
@SnakebitSTI
@SnakebitSTI 4 жыл бұрын
I think your interpretation of the end of End of Evangelion is very interesting. It certainly isn’t one I’ve heard before. But I think that might be due to misinterpretation. Yes, EoE is very negative towards Shinji. But I always interpreted the ending as Shinji rejecting instrumentality not out of spite but out of recognition that interpersonal relationships are worthwhile despite the pain and uncertainty that can result from them. In other words, Shinji winds up in the same place at the end of both the show and the movie, albeit from different directions. There are many interpretations of the final scene, and I don’t think it’s possible to actually nail it down to one specific meaning or message, but my favorite interpretation is that Shinji attacks Asuka again, then stops, because the climax of his character growth was only an inflection point. He is not fixed; he simply started the process of improving himself. Overall I think this is a fantastic video on Evangelion. I just have the one major point of disagreement.
@hugoontiveros3181
@hugoontiveros3181 2 жыл бұрын
This is exactly what I think. True is End of Evangelion's interpretation varies greatly depending on the translation. The English translation shown here, specially in the Asuka/Rei/Misato, and when he chooses to separate everyone again (when Rei is on top of him) really gives a perspective of Shinji like the one proposed in this video utter selfishness and. I've seen more translations, in English and other languages, which differ in the word choice, being an equally valid translation (don't know if Japanese is always this ambiguous, or if it was purposely scripted with this level of ambiguity) seem Shinji more in line with the broadcast ending: he's discovering what reality is and how he can't accept it, embarking himself on the road to being a real person. Also applies to Asuka (I believe the Komm, süsser Tod play to be Asuka's equivalent to Shenji ep 25 and 26 reflection). Anno himself says he wanted a sort of open end, with each one own interpretation. I find it somewhat funny how much translations affects the open-endness of the film. I also always found the last scene to be quite funny, interpretating it from the perspective Yuko Miyamura (BS AnimeYAWA) interview about Anno's proposed masturbation scenario ("Shinji's don't mind if I do" over Asuka's face and breast vs Asuka feeling Shinji's teardrops over her face and chest), funny and clever is indeed, as it stitches the opening and ending of the film together.
@peterf9006
@peterf9006 2 жыл бұрын
It's too bad that at the end he doesn't jerk off on Asuka's comatose body. Oh wait he already did that? Ok, carry on.
@Underqualified_Gunman
@Underqualified_Gunman 2 жыл бұрын
An important note for the end of evangelion as well is that mangle entertainment(ADV too but to a lesser extent) screwed around with the some of the films audio design (both inside and outside instrumentality) theres fantastic video from goat jesus called the "mistranslations of evangelion" it goes over most the big ones like misato's EP2 line getting changed from "i wonder if he realizes it was all an act?" while she's alone in the kitchen. in both the EOE and EOTV EP 26 there is a poor word that can confuse the viewer into thinking shinji chose to embrace instrumentality instead of rejecting it. In the EOE the poor word choice implies that shinji wants to inflict pain upon everyone by rejecting instrumentality. it can sabotage the intended message about how human connections are valuable enough to risk the chance of rejection and the pain that can bring. overall the ADV/Mangle dubs are decent enough and i prefer them over the netflix version as the ADV/Mangle versions usually have far better dialogue flow.
@mclainadams4811
@mclainadams4811 2 жыл бұрын
I think your interpretation of the end of End of Evangelion is very interesting. It certainly isn’t one I’ve heard before. But I think that might be due to misinterpretation. Yes, EoE is very negative towards Shinji. But I always interpreted the ending as Shinji rejecting instrumentality not out of spite but out of recognition that interpersonal relationships are worthwhile despite the pain and uncertainty that can result from them. In other words, Shinji winds up in the same place at the end of both the show and the movie, albeit from different directions. There are many interpretations of the final scene, and I don’t think it’s possible to actually nail it down to one specific meaning or message, but my favorite interpretation is that Shinji attacks Asuka again, then stops, because the climax of his character growth was only an inflection point. He is not fixed; he simply started the process of improving himself. Overall I think this is a fantastic video on Evangelion. I just have the one major point of disagreement. lol
@ekki1993
@ekki1993 Жыл бұрын
Taking everything seriously and as part of deeper meaning and leaving Shinji trying to choke Asuka as "he still has things to work through" feels like a cop out. I don't particularly buy Dan's interpretation of irredeemable disdain for otaku, but it's an explanation that fits the final product. I do agree on the TV ending and EoE being the same situation viewed from different angles, not because I buy into "both happen at the same time" but because they are artistic continuations of the same plot, done by the same director. Even if it was a plan for it to go like that, there's bound to be differences because the original ending was clearly rushed and Anno's opinion of otaku was most likely not the same after it aired.
@TwigTheThird
@TwigTheThird Жыл бұрын
In these old videos Dan is inside an entry plug, piloting the puppet.
@JasonDowney
@JasonDowney 7 жыл бұрын
God. I've loved this show for 15 years, and you still taught me a lot about it. Thank you.
@kingspeget
@kingspeget 7 жыл бұрын
This was amazing. I really connected with this series when I was young, and I didn't truly realize how it made me confront my issues until now. Thank you
@loorthedarkelf8353
@loorthedarkelf8353 Жыл бұрын
I never saw Eva when I was a teen, and listening to people discuss the different endings ( and different translations there of ) is endlessly facinating to me.
@crossthelineredefine
@crossthelineredefine 5 жыл бұрын
Amazing analysis that brings new things to the table. Thank you for uploading.
@buckwade3874
@buckwade3874 7 жыл бұрын
My interpretation, is that the final 2 eps take place during the short time when human instrumentality begins in the movie. Having reformed himself, Shinji (as stated) decides to bring back humanity.
@DavidDagninoV
@DavidDagninoV 7 жыл бұрын
Buck Wade this would be great if the first thing he does after his epiphany was not to try to kill Asuka. In his fantasy Asuka was one of the people that were happy for him and whom he wanted to live.
@buckwade3874
@buckwade3874 7 жыл бұрын
David Dagnino I've heard of a theory that at the moment, Shinji thought he was still in Instrumentality, and I don't think that's too far from the possibility.
@juliocabrejos9353
@juliocabrejos9353 7 жыл бұрын
At 14:00 you mention shinji wants other to feel fear, saw a video by goatjesus explaining it was a mistranslation, and it sucks because it changes the meaning of the film
@richardblack3385
@richardblack3385 4 жыл бұрын
This video deserves an ocean more if likes and views. Incredible and alarming shocked but I cant look away. Dude make more content 🙏👍👍👍
@mikharryman
@mikharryman 2 жыл бұрын
8 years later (only a few days before the final rebuild film) and this still speaks VOLUMES.
@leonardorestrepo5196
@leonardorestrepo5196 4 ай бұрын
A decade out, its kind of wild how much End of Evangelion kinda anticipated both the metastasis of misogyny and fandom into a continuous cultural force and inceldom as a political force. The sheer contempt Shinji has for the women in his life is nothing short of incelish behavior, and its absolutely insane that this video predates the transformation of inceldom into a political entity in two countries (Trump becomes a political force in 2014 and Abe in 2012).
@leonardorestrepo5196
@leonardorestrepo5196 4 ай бұрын
Like, this video originally aired in 2013, a full year before gamergate. It's genuinely prescient in its accurate representation of the film's thesis on misogyny, fandom, and the limits of pulp media as a platform for artistic creativity.
@MistahPaul
@MistahPaul 3 ай бұрын
So watching this as a teen, i really dug eastern viewpoints on society, even though i disnt fully understand everything going on. But i did remember watching the series and enjoying the end. Then i realized there was a movie, and was excited to see it, and then being unbelievably confused as to what i was watching. There was such a giant disconnect. Now I'm 40 and I get it.
@famuel2604
@famuel2604 6 жыл бұрын
And then Anno Directed a Cutey Honey movie
@Sasscat58
@Sasscat58 8 жыл бұрын
I really appreciate the thought put into this and the views expressed, but you ignored some really key points within the movie so that you could prove your points. 1. Shinji doesn't simply want people to feel pain, he understands that pain is a part of having a separate existence from other people. He believes, with the help of his mother, that everything will be okay even if there is pain. One scene you failed to mention was where Rei is naked atop Shinji's torso with her hands buried inside his chest. He pulls her out of him in an act demonstrating the importance of not losing yourself in another person. And then, as separate entities, the sit on the ground with Shinji resting his head on her lap. Shinji does learn from is his experiences in EoE, he learns the importance of being separate but together. He learns that it's okay to not understand everything about someone else, and that rejection is inevitable, but not the end. 2. Asuka at the end stroking Shinji's face before saying "How disgusting", or "I feel sick" depending on the translation. Asuka illustrates the importance of having someone who loves you and can also be critical of you. Shine begins to strangle half-dead Asuka partially because he thinks they are still in metaphysical world/or dead; that's why he looks so dreadful when she reaches up to his face. Shinji sees Asuka as just another person to reject him, but fears being alone so he stops strangling her. 3. Both EoE and the last episodes of NGE present similar lessons on both the importance of other people in your life to help you figure out who you are, and the importance of not completely relying on others to make your whole. The EoE ending works as a more appropriate ending to the anime because there is no crowd of validating peers telling Shinji good job on realizing who you are. Instead it follows it's own messages following up to that point by feeling much emptier, demonstrating the importance of having someone at your side, and illustrating the permanence of judgment of rejection in a world where people are separate.
@zitalee2
@zitalee2 8 жыл бұрын
Also the fact that shinji's granted people the ability to choose whether they want to come back into the world out of the lcl.
@Sasscat58
@Sasscat58 8 жыл бұрын
Yep! Although he didn't know that would happen as a result of his decision, until his mom told him.
@salvatoresalgari9751
@salvatoresalgari9751 3 жыл бұрын
@@andersonbastos1110 intersting inside and outside shinji very simple indid
@Nagoragama
@Nagoragama 8 жыл бұрын
Good to see this review again.
@hoagie911
@hoagie911 2 жыл бұрын
I know this a very old video and no one will see this comment, but your video provoked something in me that needs expressing. I could say so many positive things about the show, but your video made me think about a central issue: is Shinji a sympathetic or unsympathetic character? You contend that he is unsympathetic, at least in EoE. And I think you're right that this reading jives well with the messaging and fourth wall breaks, which feel almost angry with the audience. But I can't get over the fact that Shinji is still a child, who's mother died, who's father abandoned him and then later recruited and abused him both emotionally and physically, who has no stable friends for support (which is not the fault of his would-be friends, but is still true), who's new maternal figure fails to act as a good parent in almost every way (displaying awful behaviour, exploiting and physically abusing him; the best support she gives is coming on to him in a twisted act of making him feel better), who's taken out of nurturing education, who has pain and responsibilities far beyond what he should be given thrust upon him, etc. Asuka and Rei are also subject to the crushing failings of the adults in their lives. Through this lens, the show becomes a tale of childhoods destroyed and the devastating consequences for both the children themselves and the world. In this reading the TV ending feels very much out of place, as Shinji miraculously overcomes his trauma incredibly quickly, with all of the failings of the adults being wiped away. EoE makes much more sense as a conclusion (if one overlooks things like the fourth wall breaks), as Shinji continues to be failed by everyone and everything around him, and he thusly sinks lower and lower into himself. Because I am drawn to the sympathetic reading, I sometimes get frustrated with the fact that the show never properly acknowledges the injustice the children are subjected to. Then again, maybe doing so would have fundamentally changed the show so as to be unrecognisable, and maybe less impactful. I don't know.
@zharth
@zharth 7 ай бұрын
My own internal monologue while watching this video was, "you're being awfully harsh on someone with mental illness." I know a sob story doesn't excuse shitty behavior, but this is fiction, released at a time when it really wasn't common for our entertainment to go into depth about what it's like to be fundamentally broken inside (nowadays we have mainstream shows like BoJack Horseman). That's why it resonated with me, somebody who never really experienced before, that external sense of somebody saying, "I know what it's like." I think it's okay to relate to these characters, and sympathize with them and their struggles, without it making you a shitty human being. (I'm a little traumatized from being bullied by a Cowboy Bebop fan of all things, who thought he was the shit and I was just shit - it's the reason I finally deleted my Reddit account). BTW I always loved and preferred the TV ending since the first time I watched it, because it gave me the psychological catharsis I needed. If most of the audience didn't get it because they just wanted more giant robot action, well that's their loss.
@hoagie911
@hoagie911 7 ай бұрын
@@zharth I enjoyed the TV ending too, though I think it didn't make as much thematic sense. I don't understand anyone who thought it needed more mecha action; did they not watch the show? Because the mecha action is the least important part of it, and actually gets not much runtime.
@celesteboom4156
@celesteboom4156 4 жыл бұрын
This is one of my favorite videos on the internet
@snowmystique2308
@snowmystique2308 8 жыл бұрын
I don't who I feel more sorry for: The fans for being upset by a spiritually uplifting ending of the anime or Anno for putting up with his fans' shit because of that uplifting ending. I think NGE has shown that people would rather be miserable than happy, but are upset when they're given the misery they ask for (hence why End of Evangelion exists).
@AdaptiveReasoning
@AdaptiveReasoning 8 жыл бұрын
Snow Mystique I think it was more that it was too obtuse. Many people were watching not for the internal struggle solely, and so the anime ending didn't fulfill their desires to see an external conclusion. Heck, if it wasn't for the movie somewhat filling me in on what's going on in the outside world I wouldn't be able to appreciate the anime as much as I do. I would have said: "Huh. That happened." And I might have tried to figure stuff out, but too much was left out for me personally and I would have lost interest.
@user-fy2tl2tf2z
@user-fy2tl2tf2z 8 жыл бұрын
+Snow Mystique I think this is a misconception. The End of Eva IS a spiritually uplifting conclusion that develops the same ending from the show. People just misinterpret the Asuke scene, and assume it's bad. The point of the scene is that they both choose not to hurt one another.
@christesterman
@christesterman 8 жыл бұрын
+Snow Mystique Anno showed them there programing and why it's wrong...people rebel ageist that sort of thing. But I agree it's sad you tell the truth then people get pissed because it's not what they want to hear....but it happens all the time.
@user-fy2tl2tf2z
@user-fy2tl2tf2z 8 жыл бұрын
Anthony Johnson Or maybe, you know, you lack the cognitive ability to understand it? The events of EoE were plotted from the very beginning. We know this, because they were foreshadowing it from the first few episodes. They were setting up plot lines that were brought up in the movie. He didn't throw a temper tantrum, he was simply expressing his views. Views which I doubt you understood, since you seem to think he was attacking fans. He wasn't, he primarily criticizing himself. The idea that he was attacking his fanbase is largely overblown. Such as the claim that the notes in EoE were all death threats from fans. Maybe one of them was, the rest were just different peoples views on the show. You don't have to like the series, it has flaws, but I would ask that you know what your talking about before advancing misinformation.
@user-fy2tl2tf2z
@user-fy2tl2tf2z 8 жыл бұрын
Anthony Johnson I don't know anything about the notes being forged or not. I find it doubtful, since they included grafiti on the side of the buildings. Even if they were, most of them weren't death threats. Maybe one was a threat. I don't really care if they were forged or not, though, since it doesn't change the meaning of the letters in the film. They served a purpose. As for foreshadowing and thematic plotting, there was tons. For instance, the episode where Shinji wanders the countryside matches up with Rei's monologue in episode 14, drawing a connection between the two characters. Characters talk about the massed produced Eva's early in the show, well before they appear on End of Eva. We see one of God Rei's avatars in episode one, which matches up with the final movie. When Shinji meets his father in episode one, Eva Unit 1 sits between them, forming a kind of sick family reunion. They foreshadow the Eva's having human souls. They foreshadow Ritsuko's relationship with Gendo. They foreshadow Rei's status as an angel early on, when they show her AT field. They foreshadow everything. It's like a massive puzzle, and you have to put the pieces together. It's like reading James Joyce. It's weird and complex when you first try to figure it out, but once your put the pieces together it's brilliant. Anno didn't just randomly switch gears. He was building up to everything very slowly, very deliberately, and very carefully. It's one of the most carefully constructed pieces of fiction I've ever seen in any medium.
@smileyp4535
@smileyp4535 Жыл бұрын
I come back to this video every year or two since I found it, I'm not sure why and I've never even finished Eva or seen EoE in it's entirety, but I like this video a lot
@jamiecell
@jamiecell 4 жыл бұрын
This video has been interesting and valuable to me for a long time. It's what originally brought me to this channel, and I've been here since. I really appreciate all the work and perspective you and your team bring, Dan. Thank you.
@victorobregon1176
@victorobregon1176 6 жыл бұрын
I never thought about it like that. I love how you put it so clearly, thanks-
@madProgenitorDeity
@madProgenitorDeity 7 жыл бұрын
13:25 Saying shinji "rejected love" in EoE isn't really true.. he only rejected that physical union with adam and lilith and everyone else, which would effectively be a state of non-being for everyone involved (except maybe the two progenitors...). Undoing third impact was an action made out of hope and self-realization rather than self-hate, congruent with the TV ending. As for the asuka choking thing--some secondary materials (a card set I think) mentioned that that was his trying to affirm that their forms were separate again. but maybe he did really just want to choke a bitch But it's pretty accepted that the EoE ending was what was intended for the series, they just didn't have the time / money Finally I don't think Shinji represents the least common denominator otaku any more or less than it represents Anno himself.
@alexfriedrichs6240
@alexfriedrichs6240 5 жыл бұрын
"But it's pretty accepted... " if you say so
@NeroStrasse
@NeroStrasse 2 жыл бұрын
I have an ex friend who HATED Eva. His reason for it was because he thought the ending was "a slap in the face and the retconned endings didn't help either." Such a shallow reading of the work, even without the knowledge of the tumultuous production. And I wouldn't have even remembered this point if it wasn't for the fact that he decided to insert his opinion any time I DARED sing this show's praises. It was genuinely irritating. As if he wanted praise for having such a Big Boy Brain for not liking the Popular Thing. One of the reasons we are no longer friends is because he spends so much of his time playing the victim. Nothing is ever his fault. It's always everyone else's fault. He spent all of his time being unemployed and looking at foot porn. Upon reflection, I realized he didn't like the ending or the movies was because it held up a mirror to him, and he didn't like it.
@quercus_opuntia
@quercus_opuntia 8 ай бұрын
This my new favorite video on yt. Cant believe I didnt know it existed until recently. Thanks Dan.
@ShootingStar489
@ShootingStar489 5 жыл бұрын
It took me years to find this again. A hunt spurred on by your voice, faded and half there, saying that shinji completed on a comatose character. That has been BURNED into my brain for years and is the first thing I think of when somebody mentions evangelion.
@stkbayfield
@stkbayfield 4 жыл бұрын
The real kicker behind the 25/26 vs End of Eva dichotomy to me is the visual motif of Shinji looking at his hand. In the first episode it is when he looks at his hand covered in Rei's blood that he finds the strength to get into EVA-01 and fight to protect. Shinji looks at his hand a lot in the show. It's a symbol for his self-worth, his ability to perform actions with his hands and make an impact on the world. In the TV finale when Shinji states that he could love himself and do good things his hand opens and closes a number of times before he accepts others in to his life. In End of Eva the shot of his hand mirrors that of the first episode. Once covered in blood and as a sign of his ability to protect and the drive to be better than his fears. In the movie he masturbates to completion over Asuka's comatose body and it is a symbol of his lowest moment, his absolute devastating bottom. It is the moment he surrenders his ability to do anything.
@stupidnonmovingcartoon3662
@stupidnonmovingcartoon3662 8 жыл бұрын
Actually, the scene where Rei says to Shinji "is it okay for others to feel pain again" is actually a mistranslation. What Rei actually said to Shinji was "is it okay for you to feel pain again". I think this one of the reasons people hate Shinji, including the jack off scene and English dub Shinji, is because due to the mistranslation people believe Shinji wants people to suffer and to feel pain, when actually he's okay with him feeling pain and doesn't want people to suffer. I think this basically throws your argument out the window. I actually really don't believe in your interpretation EOE was a F-You to the fans or Shinji being the audience's surrogate (although I see some meta in live action sequence); I don't believe Anno's that cynical. I think EOE is just an expansion to Eva series with some meta elements added in, but then again that's my interpretation of it. You should watch Goat Jesus analysis of Shinji he explains it much better than me: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pZqFhNGlspq-mqs.html
@marin0the0magus
@marin0the0magus 7 жыл бұрын
Goat jesus' stuff is great
@Dastankbeets9486
@Dastankbeets9486 3 жыл бұрын
I love how every time you mention the thing it’s both hilarious and horrific in the way you deliver it
@Laaaaaaaaaura
@Laaaaaaaaaura 7 жыл бұрын
"Conversation between author and audience". Loved it.
@zianitori1565
@zianitori1565 7 жыл бұрын
he doesn't want people to feel fear again, that's a mistranslation. otherwise, great video!
@Ericpol3
@Ericpol3 3 жыл бұрын
Yo I’ve been looking for this video for a while yes thank you
@sebaba001
@sebaba001 7 жыл бұрын
25/26 is almost the same as EoE except it's mostly happening in Shinji's head.. they are not different endings, it's the same ending. Shinji rejected instrumentality. In 25/26 we don't see the world, what happens to it, how it got to that point or how it started, in EoE we do. Also, they didn't "change" the ending. Watch EP24 and the preview for next episodes, you will see the Asuka fight vs Eva series was planned for the TV show, they just couldn't finish it in time. EoE is the ending as planned, with full time and budget.
@siggi4426
@siggi4426 11 ай бұрын
the last couple of episodes in neon genesis evangelion are to me what turns a good anime into a masterpiece. it's unfathomable to me that original fans of the show hated what was being said at the end i was in a kind of dark place myself when i watched the show and it really worked as a revelation to me i say kind of, because saying that i was depressed would take away from people who are actually depressed and not in the silly "i don't know who i really am" time that i was in. but the point still stands. i felt a kind of happiness and relief that is hard to put into words when i finished the show. it felt like i was living alongside shinji with all his doubts and fears and the ending was like a boulder being lifted of my chest as i watched him finally accept himself and be happy
@ragmondead
@ragmondead 7 жыл бұрын
You did a 10 minute breakdown of Shinjis sexuality and not once even off-handedly mentioned the whole gay thing.
@gabriellarena2256
@gabriellarena2256 7 жыл бұрын
In my opinion, that wasn't some "gay thing", it's more like shinji dealing with someone that loved him unconditionally, and the fear of been loved, shinji never saw the angel as a sex figure, instead, he always referred to him as friend
@AstralBelt
@AstralBelt 5 жыл бұрын
EoE and the TV ending are not different outcomes. the television ending occurs in Instrumentality, and then EoE wraps it up It does not end bleakly, it ends on a very optimistic and bittersweet note
@haldir108
@haldir108 6 жыл бұрын
There are so many times where i'm pausing the video and exclaim at the screen: "No! That's not what happened" EoE Shinji doesn't end instrumentality because of a desire to hurt others. The early parts of the show do not make shinji an audience surrogate to be liked. Maybe pitied and emphatised with, but not sympathised with. When i reject these premises, it no longer follows that anno hates his audiences.
@Otokogoroshi
@Otokogoroshi 3 жыл бұрын
This remains a fantastic episode.
@Micho55
@Micho55 6 жыл бұрын
I cringe everytime somebody reduces this film to a middle finger towards evangelion fanboys. Yes, that intention is clear in some respects, but it is so much more than this unfunny joke. Criticism of otaku culture is the underlying message, not Anno being mad at one or two letters.
@ImSoLament
@ImSoLament 4 жыл бұрын
This did so much more than I could have even imagined to explain why I preferred the broadcast ending than the film.
@theMoporter
@theMoporter 7 жыл бұрын
End of Eva is not the opposite of 25/26! Shinji rejects instrumentality because he was willing to live. He chokes Asuka to confirm that she won't just let him. Ffs this is just the tip of the iceberg.
@neosoontoretro
@neosoontoretro 7 жыл бұрын
I agree. That's what I got from it.
@javiermercado4518
@javiermercado4518 7 жыл бұрын
Let´s not forget the fact that Shinji was given the oportunity to choose wether or not save humanity or stop, (when he was in the tree of life), and he chose destruction
@neosoontoretro
@neosoontoretro 7 жыл бұрын
But wasn't humanity the final angel and isn't the whole purpose of piloting an Eva is killing angel. You can make the argument that by destroying humanity Shiniji was just doing want he was supposed to do. Also, in the end Shiniji save humanity anyway by rejecting instrumentality. So in a way he both destroys and saves humanity.
@theMoporter
@theMoporter 7 жыл бұрын
Javier Mercado Let's not forget that he hates himself for all of 25 and a lot of 26.
@night1952
@night1952 7 жыл бұрын
It can't be the opposite since 25/26 happens during EoE
@MrHoeBow
@MrHoeBow 5 жыл бұрын
Shinji rejected instrumentality because it's not living. Sure, assimilation takes away all the pain that comes with existence, with human interaction, with life, but no one there actually exists in that bizarre stream of human conciousness. Here's this exchange, shortly following the Third Impact during instrumentality (with a shitty translation): Shinji: Ayanami... where are we? Rei: This is the sea of LCL. That is the sea of the origin of life. This is the world without AT Fields, and therefore, without your own shape. You can't tell the difference between one person or another. An ambiguous world. Everything is yourself, and also, everything is not yourself. A dead world. Shinji: I died? Rei: No, everything has just combined into one. This is the world you have been hoping for. It is like this. Shinji: But... this is not it. I don't believe this is it... Rei: If you hope that other people exist again, your heart will seperate everyone once more. But you will be frightened of other people, again. Shinji: It doesn't matter. Thank you. Essentially, Shinji accepts the harshness of reality. People will hurt each other. But that pain is worth it, because "at the time, I know what I felt was real". This is Shinji's defining character moment as he rejects the confirming non-existence of Human Instrumentality to embrace the cold and suffering of life. End of Evangelion is just overall incredibly optimistic towards the end. Yui's statement that "Anywhere can be paradise as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy. As long as the Sun, the Moon, and the Earth exist, everything will be all right." is always my go to for the movie's hopefullness. Of course, this comes with Shinji's doubts, for he remains unsure of whether the world will be happy or not, but the point is, whether the world is currently of misery or joy, it *can* get better.
@BlueScarabGuy
@BlueScarabGuy 6 жыл бұрын
I think this analysis pretty much spot-on right up until you state that Shinji rejects instrumentality out of spite ("because he wants others to feel pain"). I DO think that the intended reason he does is because he DID realize that individuality and the duality of pain and joy is what gives existence meaning, and Shinji chokes Asuka to confirm that they're in reality and it's possible for her to reject him, because the fact that she could have a choice is what gives it meaning. It's the same core message at the end, just delivered in a way that's more easily interpreted VISUALLY but isn't quite as on-the-nose in its positivity as the shows "congratulations!". That said, yeah, the rest of this is spot on, and I don't think that Shinji coming to the same eventual conclusion about individuality and self worth invalidates everything else that he stands for as a surrogate to and condemnation of certain factions of the audience, all the stuff that you've pointed out in this analysis. I just think that your defeatist read on the ending isn't necessarily the case. That said, it DOES make me appreciate the original ending of the show more, I liked it before but in my mind End of Eva was better. But now I'd say they're probably equal.
@Brascofarian
@Brascofarian 3 жыл бұрын
I just went through and watched the whole of Evangelion for the second time, hearing that there was a different ending. I watched it the first time over a decade ago and watched it with the original ending. I'd heard that the end of the show had been rushed and wasn't what was originally intended so I assumed that End of Evangelion was going back and redoing it the way it was intended. Boy did I get it wrong. I found it pretty much unwatchable, and was absolutely baffled why they would want it to finish like that. I'm so glad that I found this video, it's really cleared things up.
@KOTEBANAROT
@KOTEBANAROT 6 жыл бұрын
good video, but i disagree completely about EOE being the opposite of Eva. what i saw was the same thing. what shinji rejected wasnt a true happiness and love - it was its surrogate. look at this - he pulls out reis limbs out of him, giving back her self and identity, and then reaches out and holds her hand. what happened was that he finally accepted other peoples agency and needs as well as his own and still chose to reach out to them. *EOE ultimately is a happy story and a good ending*. sure it felt scary and lonely for some at the end, but it merely showed us that just because you reach an epithany doesnt mean the journey is over.
@tvsonicserbia5140
@tvsonicserbia5140 7 жыл бұрын
I understand your ideas in the vaguest of sense, but I think you wildly misinterpreted Eva, Eva never was a cynical work, and you seem to believe that all Eva ever was is about otakus. You say that the last two episodes rexontextualize it, but they real add context, not change it, that's the point, that's why it's a deconstruction. Also you seem to forget the fact the fact that Eva was always a psychological mecha anime, fourth episode is literally called Hedgehog's dillema, Shinji literally feels sexual feelings about the clone of his mother, that was not there for the otakus. Also what about the directors cut episodes, and parts of tv ending that show parts from EoE, I believe that EoE does everything the old series did, PLUS MORE, with more, like you said, metacommentary.
@tvsonicserbia5140
@tvsonicserbia5140 7 жыл бұрын
In your follow up, you say that the meta is more interesting, but I always find that hard to agree with, evangelion has a good story, good characters, it's not just a postmodern mess.
@dirt420
@dirt420 7 жыл бұрын
this
@neosoontoretro
@neosoontoretro 7 жыл бұрын
I completely agree, Shiniji dilemma may be a meta commentary on the Otaku culture but only partly. I don't think it is want Eva is ultimately about. Shiniji's arc is an allegory of existential angst and how we as human beings attempt to resolve existential crisis. By Shiniji accepting that pain is a part of life he rejects instrumentality (i.e. Pseudo-paradise) because a life free of pain isn't living at all.
@phylwx
@phylwx 7 жыл бұрын
The manga was quite cynical, the most cynical of all of the Eva body of work, and quite in the way that is pointed out in this video, it was very obviously a shameless, cynical cash grab aimed at the disgruntled otaku wanting more giant robots and formulaic, safe narrative that´s so common in anime, not unlike sailor moon or ranma. Perhaps you would preffer Bennet the sage review of evangelion?
@tvsonicserbia5140
@tvsonicserbia5140 7 жыл бұрын
it wasn't cynical, it was compassionate, it was made by anime fans coming from the same place, who wanted to make the industry better by making best possible version of what they love, and audience more accepting of that betterness by criticizing their acceptance of certain lame aspects of the otaku culture, while still being proudly otaku
@jackmarketos90
@jackmarketos90 3 жыл бұрын
Yet again I find myself watching folding ideas end of evangelion video again, without ever watching evangelion.
@flimpeenflarmpoon1353
@flimpeenflarmpoon1353 2 жыл бұрын
Just watch it lol
@jajssblue
@jajssblue 5 жыл бұрын
I really like coming back to this video when I inevitably start pondering EVA again as I'm prone to do. I only wish you could have expanded on your point made at 13:45 about how Shinji only chose individuality out of shared misery. Because when I first watched I got the idea that it was the other interpretation you mention of individuality leading to good and bad experiences that are ultimately worth it. That made me view the choking scene as Shinji briefly regretting the choice. I'd love to have a clearer picture of what led you to the other conclusion.
@CloneHat
@CloneHat 5 жыл бұрын
This guy really doesn’t like Shinji huh
@changwufei5
@changwufei5 8 жыл бұрын
God this was such a good video
@brouhajoe
@brouhajoe 7 жыл бұрын
I've just discovered this channel, and I have to say I very much enjoy your analysis, even when you fundamentally misinterpret a story event...like you do here ;)
@TheMusicalInquiry
@TheMusicalInquiry 7 жыл бұрын
What I think is interesting is that you refer to Shinji as the audience surrogate while I've always envisioned him as the Anno surrogate. As a creator of fictional works who's worked with and spoke with many creators of fiction, I believe there is almost always a character with whom the creator identifies and uses to tell their own story or work through their own issues.
@rayysvideos
@rayysvideos 4 жыл бұрын
This seems a bit unrelated, but I just discovered this video, and the way you discuss this is so wonderful. I don't know if you are into manga, but the analysis of the movie (i actually havent watched evangelion yet, so I don't have much to stand on other then some stuff I saw and this) really reminds me of oyasumi punpun, which I always interperted similarly to the way you describe shinjis arc in the end of evangelion. The main characters struggle is about self hatred, and developing a horrible obsession with a purified image of someone he thinks he loves, when in reality he just objectifies and wishfully believes can save him from his mistakes. If you do enjoy this stuff, I recommend oyasumi punpun highly! ^^
@madProgenitorDeity
@madProgenitorDeity 7 жыл бұрын
Anno said they had to change the plot of an eva episode after the Aum Shinrikyo due to some similarity, but he never expounded on what it was (i.e. whether it was a terrorist attack, angel made of poison gas, etc.)
@McDudes
@McDudes 8 жыл бұрын
EOE the best anime movie! I love how depressing, psychological mindful it is and how sureall the visuals are.
@andrewrivera1054
@andrewrivera1054 2 жыл бұрын
Great analysis
@NannerMan
@NannerMan 7 жыл бұрын
making any analysis video on Eva and presenting it as fact is kinda pointless. the show was meant to spur conversation, and was intentionally left ambiguous, confusing, and open ended so that each viewer could come to their own conclusions. for example, based on how other people view the choking scene and based on my own thoughts and observations, I personally think that Shinji chokes Asuka to have validation, to confirm that he exists because he can impact the world and other people around him. because he can hurt, and be hurt, he knows he is an individual again, instead of a small part of a sea of LCL. earlier in the film (or in the final two episodes, I don't remember) Shinji is told that if humanity is separate again, they will fill pain, and Shinji says that he doesn't mind. i don't believe Shinji is vengeful, this is just him coming to the conclusion that life is both joy and pain.
@Aki-ll3jg
@Aki-ll3jg 8 жыл бұрын
Wow wait up. When Rei and Kaworu tell Shinji that they are the hope for understanding and the force of love, Shinji says that it SOUNDS like a pretense, like some kind of prayer, but that he wants to keep on living because he "knows his feelings are real." The clip at 13:17 is ridiculously misleading. I feel like you cherry pick other moments, too.
@ProlificPianist
@ProlificPianist 5 жыл бұрын
He did cherrypick his stuff. While his idea that EoE was an "F U" to his fanbase, was most definitely still on track to how it was supposed to be. I respect different tastes in stories and interpretations, but he also obsessivizes and fixates on a number of unmoving, obvious details as if it's something we "missed". While his point was very clear and fair, he ironically fell victim to much of what he accuses in the series and essentially pulls the rug out from underneath his points.
@bluehypothermicreality6759
@bluehypothermicreality6759 5 жыл бұрын
Every time you say that I’m surprised all over again
@tetsujin_144
@tetsujin_144 6 жыл бұрын
The final TV episodes may be a fitting end to the story and to Shinji's character arc as you contend, but I think there are significant problems that seriously undercut the effectiveness of that ending: First, this development in Shinji isn't really justified in preceding events in the show. Nothing really _leads_ to that point where he will confront his feelings of fear and isolation and accept himself. The narrative just sort of screeches to a halt with little explanation, and then this revelation happens. Second, the preceding episodes hinged around an action-oriented resolution to the story. Whether or not you think that's the best way to end the series, that is the direction they were headed - and then suddenly that bit of storytelling ended and things went in a completely other direction. Finally, the episodes in question looked cheap. Combined with the abrupt change in direction and the reframing of the conclusion around this one issue of Shinji's character (which is then neatly wrapped up by Instrumentality-fueled mind-melding of the characters) it's hard to take it seriously. Whether there were unfortunate circumstances that necessitated hurriedly wrapping up the story's conclusion, or whatever else, in my opinion is a bit irrelevant. Whatever the reason, we got the ending we got. You make a good case for why it's thematically a good ending for the series, but in terms of execution, it's a disaster. End of Evangelion didn't always make sense but its events progressed out of the events of the preceding episodes. It fit the part of the story to which it was attached. Just from that distinction alone it functions much better as an ending to the story.
@imaginaryboy2000
@imaginaryboy2000 Жыл бұрын
First off, by the final few episodes, the Angels had all been defeated, including the Eva units. That was all he had that directly gave him purpose outside of himself. In achieving the goals set out for him by other people, he had lost that purpose, and was left with nothing of his own, leading to him having to evaluate why he even wanted to live, as nobody else would give him an answer. Second, I got the exact opposite impression when I watched. Granted, it's been a while since I last watched, but the fact that the Angels were all defeated made it clear that a Third Impact wouldn't happen. Even if there was more to come, Shinji wouldn't be involved. The fact that the movie goes right into action was extremely jarring, and it made me dislike the movie as a whole, as the tone, pace and resolution of the main show had been tossed aside for what ended up as a relatively weak action-thriller that happened tp have a complete meltdown of an ending, one that despite being the best part of the movie, still didn't really make the movie as a whole worth watching. Third, come on the whole show was cheap. There were several shots that went on for half a minute with no visual change whatsoever, if that happens more than once in a 25 episode run you know corners have been cut. There was some impressive animation in there but the fact that the last two episodes were largely clipshows didn't clash at all woth the rest of the show's visual composition. Not to say it was bad of course, my favorite part of Evangelion was just how quiet it could be despite the genre, but it was undoubtedly cheap in a lot of ways.
@chinezeFURY
@chinezeFURY 8 жыл бұрын
Great video, but I don't agree with your interpretation of EoE.
@chaosof99
@chaosof99 8 жыл бұрын
***** "There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice." - Kazuya Tsurumaki, assistant director of the TV Show and co-director of the Rebuild of Evangelion movie series, at Otakon 2001
@Xondar11223344
@Xondar11223344 8 жыл бұрын
+Soarel the Hobbit I thought it was common knowledge that they put the Christian stuff in "because it's cool" and not for any other reason.
@nicememe3598
@nicememe3598 8 жыл бұрын
+chaosof99 I thought this was common knowledge
@nfmaster4851
@nfmaster4851 7 жыл бұрын
Dan B But that's not the symbolism
@nfmaster4851
@nfmaster4851 7 жыл бұрын
***** Someone above quoted what the assistant director said about the symbolism (on a supericial level) being there to look cool. The crosses and all the other things I believe there to be to make us *think* about what they could imply. They are a hint that there may be some correlation/connection to christianity on a metaphorical level. They have no inherent meaning. If I stand infront of you, and point towards something behind you, am I the thing or did I help you identify it? I hope you get what I mean
@Beretta249
@Beretta249 6 жыл бұрын
So when I have the time to explain what/who an "Incel" is this breakdown of Eva is almost perfect.
@Mekose
@Mekose 4 жыл бұрын
​@Dan Fuchs This is actually extremely topical for recent culture because Shinji is effectively exactly an Incel and this breakdown very explicitly explains the mental layers and walls Incels utilize to justify their behavior. Shinji hinges his own self worth on the validation of others (specifically women or the objects of his sexual desire). He views women as a collective instead of individual humans and thus blames their behavior towards him as sort of a "woman conspiracy" (ambiguous attitude). When confronted by this he recedes deeper into the layers of excuses ("well if you'd just be nice to me, try to understand, help me"). He masturbates to completion on Asuka's comatose body. When finally given the object of his desire he realizes he was just idolizing a false fantasy and in reality it doesn't validate him and instead holds up a mirror towards his twisted view of women and the "satisfaction/worth" he thinks they'll provide when in reality that value and validation can only come from oneself.
@HipnosXpress
@HipnosXpress 4 жыл бұрын
This video is fucking brilliant, i'm watching it for the fourth time, goddamn
@daffodeline
@daffodeline 4 ай бұрын
This is actually a pretty interesting interpretation on the last hour of End of Evangelion, and one that is definitely not talked about as much as it should. A lot of modern critics see the film as an extension of the initial ending, and though some elements can seem that way, others that point the other direction are often forgotten. The film is, in large part, a condemnation of Shinji and the audience, but that is really hard to accept and convey as an audience member who resonated with the other themes of the film.
@matenmeplox544
@matenmeplox544 5 жыл бұрын
Kinda hurts me to see someone drift so away from the truth in a 23 Evangelion analysis
@criticalthinkingconcubus
@criticalthinkingconcubus 4 жыл бұрын
3:45 Whoever drew that deserves a trophy
@malcolmholliday9710
@malcolmholliday9710 9 ай бұрын
Lolol this came up on my feed randomly (maybe cuz I saw your recent video lol), but it's interesting seeing the comments saying End of Eva has a positive ending. I still hold that both the show and EoE are two completely different endings, I feel with the Rebuild's ending it holds even MORE so that EoE is a negative ending.
@karl-erlendmikalsen5159
@karl-erlendmikalsen5159 4 жыл бұрын
"I guess what Ano thinks of his audience." That - is a sick burn. I applaud thee sir.
@gryphonavocatio
@gryphonavocatio 4 жыл бұрын
This was great.
@lissy_love64
@lissy_love64 Жыл бұрын
I mean I think both are necessary. One is for those who get it, that its a coming of age story that in one way or another is deeply relatable, and ultimately reaches for self improvement. The ladder, a dark reflection of the kind of person this story is trying to reach. None of it is perfect, but what always stuck with me about this show was how much I related to shinji as a little boy and didn't like it. And how much this show has themes of self reflection, depression, confusion, and finding your place in a world crumbling around you. I transitioned in my early adulthood and I've had to go through a process of "growing up all over again" in a lot of ways. A lot of it is reexamining my childhood and what I've chosen to integrate into myself to define me. I think its time for another watch
@squelchedotter
@squelchedotter 5 ай бұрын
I've heard people say that the shinji profile picture is an online version of the denial beard and there seems to be some truth to it. I've always been curious why that's such a common trend
@grinningevildeath
@grinningevildeath Жыл бұрын
upon watching this video and analysis of End of Eva, it came into focus that Shinji is also a self insert for Anno himself and his own painful self discovery of similar behaviors and attitudes brought into focus through the audience reaction to the end of the Eva series. My therapist said this is when 'your bubble burst' and one is forced to confront their own distorted view of reality as events in life demand you reevaluate Everything you thought to be true in reality and reluctantly let go of your fixation on your fantasy of your beliefs of what reality is and your place with the world.
@ShadaOfAllThings
@ShadaOfAllThings 8 жыл бұрын
This... wow. This is definitely a good interpretation
@o0Avalon0o
@o0Avalon0o 5 жыл бұрын
That intro sounded like me dragging the driest slab of skin across a car window. Now that I got that out, this show is beautiful.
@ProjektBurn
@ProjektBurn 7 жыл бұрын
Brilliant, mate! And don't think some of us don't laugh at the irony of the parallels between Gainex's struggle with its fans and the responders to this video. ;) But anyways, the main reason I wanted to comment in the first place: HOLY FUCK, I never realized just how much I identified with Shinji until seeing this.
@Zorbo_the_Grandiloquent
@Zorbo_the_Grandiloquent 3 жыл бұрын
I know, i know i've let you down, I've been a fool to myself. I thought that i could live for no one else, But now, through all the hurt and pain, It's time for me to respect. The ones you love mean more than anything. So with sadness in my heart, I feel the best thing i could do, Is end it all, and leave forever. What's done is done, it feels so bad, What once was happy now is sad. I'll never love again. My world is ending. I wish that i could turn back time, 'Cause now the guilt is all mine. Can't live without the trust from those you love. I know we can't forget the past, You can't forget love and pride. Because of that, it's killing me inside. It all returns to nothing, It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down. It all returns to nothing, I just keep letting me down, letting me down, letting me down. In my heart of hearts, I know that i could never love again. I've lost everything... everything... Everything that matters to me matters in this world. It all returns to nothing, It just keeps tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down. It all returns to nothing, I just keep letting me down, letting me down, letting me down.
@Zorbo_the_Grandiloquent
@Zorbo_the_Grandiloquent 3 жыл бұрын
Shout out to the *End of Eva Theme Song*, a Gospel piece about depression, despair, regret and nihilism *Edited for clarity because context for useless information needs to be spoonfed, apparently
@vintheguy
@vintheguy 2 жыл бұрын
What's the point of this?
@Zorbo_the_Grandiloquent
@Zorbo_the_Grandiloquent 2 жыл бұрын
@@vintheguy those are the lyrics to Komm Susser Tod, a song that plays during the climax of End of Evangelion. It dances around the themes discussed in the video. Tbh I found it surprising that Folding Ideas didn't address the song, it basically serves as a thesis statement for Shinji's character at the time the song is sung, further highlighting the difference between shinji in the movie vs him in the tv show.
@vintheguy
@vintheguy 2 жыл бұрын
@@Zorbo_the_Grandiloquent Yeah but, why did you post this? What purpose does commenting the entire song serve?
@Zorbo_the_Grandiloquent
@Zorbo_the_Grandiloquent 2 жыл бұрын
@@vintheguy better question, why not? Do you honestly believe that everyone watching the video has seen the movie? Maybe even people who have seen the movie didn't realize the theme song reinforced the nihilistic themes Took 2 seconds to copypasta and it can enrich a person's understanding of the movie.
@erinhaury5773
@erinhaury5773 4 ай бұрын
Rewatching this in 2024 as I'm buying tickets to see this in the theater. 😂 I loved EoE back when it first came out, and I still love it now. Mainly for all the reasons listed here. To me, it actually feels like a rational ending given how far Shinji devolved over the course of the show. I like how Anno just throws shit back into the fans' faces and really drives home what a self-involved, fucked-up little prick Shinji really is. He had so much potential that either ending works for me, but I really prefer the movie ending given the general bleakness of the show.
@HiddenDragon555
@HiddenDragon555 4 жыл бұрын
My take on the ending of End is that Third Impact was a decentralized rapture, decentralized in the sense that instead of the chosen being pulled up into Heaven with the sinners left in a broken world, everyone gets pulled into Instrumentality/Unity (or as I like to call it, The Soup) and once your there and understand what it means then you can choose to reject it and get back down to earth. And also of note, despite my comparison of this to the rapture, I don't think either option is objectively good or evil anymore then a cell wall is objectively good or evil. I can easily imagine a rational argument for either position. Shinji and Asuka judged that identity is important enought to deal with pain, we don't see who else came back but I feel Rei stayed in the Soup. Shinji choking Asuka is representative of their choice to come back to a messy and unpleasant world. My basis for this is that in the original ending it says that every other person has a spiritual journey during Instrumentality when Shinji has his, and I don't see why that would change here. In broad strokes the difference between the endings is that in End the events leading up to Instrumentality are shown and Shinji makes a differing choice.
@littlebigpookie
@littlebigpookie 7 жыл бұрын
Perfect view point. 10/10 would subscribe again!
@mledesma87
@mledesma87 5 жыл бұрын
I really like this wisecrack video 👌
@cheezemonkeyeater
@cheezemonkeyeater 7 жыл бұрын
I always felt like the real intended ending was somewhere between the TV show and the movie. For one, Anno DID have some of the stuff finished in rough that was in the movie. Some of what's in the movie was meant to happen right from the beginning. But there's also no question that when it came to making the movie, Anno did let the fan-reaction influence the way he developed the movie, and that significantly changes the tone. But see, when it comes to works of art, especially in the medium of movies and television, compromise is a part of the process. There is no good work, even in the realm of books, that is TRUELY pure author intent. The best books ever written all owe a significant part of their quality to their editors, who did influence the writer, who in turn made changes to the story based on that influence. The so-called "purity" of author intent doesn't exist. As for what Anno would have made without restrictions and without the horrible reaction of his hyper-obsessive fans, I think what we would have got was something closer to the tone of the show's ending, but more of the execution of the movie's ending. But that will never exist and never could have existed, and even my own belief is nothing more then speculation based on my interpretation of limited data. Anno's "pure" vision and intent do not exist and never will. And to tell you the truth, I think on a meta-level, the existence of the two highly different versions is actually a fascinating thing, because it highlights that. In essence, both endings are legitimate endings to the show, but examine it from different perspectives as you said. Which you like more all comes down to personal tastes (I honestly prefer the movie simply because I really enjoy its balls-to-the-wall insanity and its willingness to be so utterly fucking bleak), but you cannot on any grounds objectively claim that one ending or the other can't be considered a solid ending with interesting themes brought to the discussion. But one has Shinji masturbating to completion over Asuka's comatose body.
@ChangedMyNameFinally69
@ChangedMyNameFinally69 7 жыл бұрын
cheezemonkeyeater Why would you like the bleaker ending better? It basically tells you to abandon hope. What kind of an ending is that?
@cheezemonkeyeater
@cheezemonkeyeater 7 жыл бұрын
An ending you don't see every day, that's what kind of ending it is. And it's not an ending that tells you to give up hope, it's an ending that tells you not to make the same mistakes.
@ChangedMyNameFinally69
@ChangedMyNameFinally69 7 жыл бұрын
cheezemonkeyeater Well I was going by FI's interpretation. I personally think EoE is hopeful, despite its bleak circumstances. Life may be painful, but that's just one aspect of it. There's so much good to it.
@cheezemonkeyeater
@cheezemonkeyeater 7 жыл бұрын
Your call, man. I said in my first comment, which you like comes down to personal taste.
@ChangedMyNameFinally69
@ChangedMyNameFinally69 7 жыл бұрын
cheezemonkeyeater True.
@ridleysomeliana-lauer5814
@ridleysomeliana-lauer5814 4 жыл бұрын
One day people will stop calling the Eva units robots.
@carlosangel3647
@carlosangel3647 7 жыл бұрын
Great work sir. I just started watching your videos. I didn't know your channel existed. Do you have a self-introduction video or a Q&A video where you explain your background and your history? Thanks, keep up the good work. :)
@Dell88music
@Dell88music 2 жыл бұрын
Long time fan, just saw the series and thus, this video... I also read that Shinji was Anno's stand-in character as well. That and other quotes made the end and End to be two sides of the same depressive coin for me. The series being just a complete emotional meltdown/recovery, and EoE being a compromise of sorts. That and the supposed fact that Anno shoots mostly from the hip when writing paints it a little foul for me, but the series definitely moved me emotionally. And the middle episodes are some of the best TV of all time, so...
@timetuner
@timetuner 2 жыл бұрын
Yesterday I watched the old series recap movie and End of Eva (old Eng dub) without watching the broadcast ending. It's brutal. There sure are a lot of shots of real theaters and audiences on screen when Shinji is deciding to restart humanity out of spite.
@myboy_
@myboy_ 3 жыл бұрын
This is my favorite analysis of EoE
@normis6620
@normis6620 6 жыл бұрын
I really liked this video (even though you showed the same sequence around 5 times lol, but that’s just me being petty). I do agree with you, the movie was a strong reaction from the creators towards their audience’s opinion, a big “Is this what you wanted” thrown at their faces, and “ruining” the main character in the most frustratingly way possible. Thanks a lot for sharing this analysis
@wyattthewordweaver1992
@wyattthewordweaver1992 7 жыл бұрын
Hey great analysis. I enjoyed the angle that you focused on, but I would like to acknowledge the limitations of said angle. For one I would like to refute the idea that Evangelion is a "normal" story in its first 10 episodes. The fact that the show is a subversion of the giant mech genre is apparent from episode 1 and the show is throwing around philosophical and psychological concepts as early as episode 4 (hedgehog's dilemma). Yes things do grow more depressing and extesential as the show goes on, but this is just a ramping up of tension and stakes as it nears its climax. However while again great analysis I think we must remember that you pretty much solely focused on the character of Shinji, and to discount all of the other intricate and detailed character arcs is a mistake if you wish to get to the message of the show (which to be clear I myself am not sure of). The movie End of Evangelion concludes most of the character arcs in satisfying ways that if not redeem and complete the character, at least bring their story to a end in a place where we as the audience has a better understanding of them as people. Now back to Shinji. I would like to acknowledge that while Shinji is a TERRIBLE person with horrible views towards women, it should be noted that the three women that Shinji interacts with the most are often abusive, unstable, obtuse, nasty, and vague. Finally I would like to point out that while Shinji is an audience surrogate he has plenty of personality on his own which the meat of the show is spent developing. Also it's worth noting that Anno is also a massive otaku and any criticism of his audience is most likely also criticism of himself. But again nice analysis. This is a work with many angles and I think that only by looking at it from all of them can you begin to get something out of it. Thank you for helping me to understand it deeper.
@mclainadams4811
@mclainadams4811 2 жыл бұрын
I think your interpretation of the end of End of Evangelion is very interesting. It certainly isn’t one I’ve heard before. But I think that might be due to misinterpretation. Yes, EoE is very negative towards Shinji. But I always interpreted the ending as Shinji rejecting instrumentality not out of spite but out of recognition that interpersonal relationships are worthwhile despite the pain and uncertainty that can result from them. In other words, Shinji winds up in the same place at the end of both the show and the movie, albeit from different directions. There are many interpretations of the final scene, and I don’t think it’s possible to actually nail it down to one specific meaning or message, but my favorite interpretation is that Shinji attacks Asuka again, then stops, because the climax of his character growth was only an inflection point. He is not fixed; he simply started the process of improving himself. Overall I think this is a fantastic video on Evangelion. I just have the one major point of disagreement.
@RandallStephens397
@RandallStephens397 7 жыл бұрын
I always loved the broadcast ending way more than End of Eva and now I know why.
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