Dr Euan McTurk, A deep-dive into emerging EV battery technologies

Dr Euan McTurk, A deep-dive into emerging EV battery technologies | The Stop Burning Stuff Podcast

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Күн бұрын

EV Battery Boom?
Join Quentin Willson and Dr. Euan McTurk as they explore the latest in electric vehicles battery advancements. As a consultant battery electrochemist who has been working on - and driving - EVs since 2009, Euan is one of the UK’s leading experts on EV batteries, and most definitely has his finger on the pulse when it comes to emerging battery technology.
During this enlightening discussion, Euan shares the real story on EV battery fires and talks about some of the new battery technologies to watch out for, including solid-state batteries with their impressive range and safety credentials. Could these go mainstream sooner than we think? Quentin and Euan also share views on the battery industry as a whole, and what governments and energy suppliers can do to help the transition to these cleaner technologies.
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Пікірлер: 326

@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 2 ай бұрын

This podcast should be compulsory listening for mainstream media motoring journalists. Thanks a lot!

@StewartMidwinter 2 ай бұрын

I have so much faith in LFP batteries not catching fire that I have installed them in my power wheelchair. As I'm living with quadriplegia, I can't exactly jump out if I ever had a problem. I'm literally trusting my life to them with full confidence. But, I made sure to choose a reputable brand from an established manufacture with an impeccable warranty. ♿️🇨🇦

@christophersmith5303 Ай бұрын

LFP are less of a fire concern than other chemistries, but they can still fail. However, if you take care to not overcharge them and have them checked frequently for swelling or abnormal heat, they should be safe. These things CANNOT be placed on aircraft though. LFP produces far more gas if they fail internally than other chemistries and its highly toxic and consists of large amounts of H so the explosion risks are real. Best of luck Stewart and I hope they improve your mobility.

@garydmercer Ай бұрын

When I was in college years ago, I was the homecare assistant for nice fellow who also was living with Quadriplegia, level 4. Back then, he had to use marine batteries and I remember having to get a bunch of students to push him back to this dorm room when the chair ran out of power. The chart was so heavy from the lead acid batteries! I can see that LFP batteries could really be a game changer for those using wheel chairs etc. Glad to hear you are able to use the newer lighter batteries with much extended life cycles.

@garydmercer Ай бұрын

@@christophersmith5303 LFP batteries do not have the energy density of other lithium formulas, so are not suitable for use in aircraft.

@t1n4444 24 күн бұрын

Now, the problem you might have is that the information you're relying on is a bit out of date. It now appears that LiFePo4 cells can ignite depending on the state of charge (SOC). Info online. Personally I would have gone for lead acid gel batteries. They can't leak even with a hole in them. Cheaper than any lithium type. Just make sure you get a smart charger with an option to choose between gel, flooded cell and AGM type lead acid batteries. If you're dead set against lead acid science it may be that this sodium ion battery tech might be an option, presuming a manufacturer build the cells you need in the dimensions to fit in the battery tray, with suitable voltage and adequate capacity.

@Pottery4Life 2 ай бұрын

Make this guy a regular!! Thank you very much for this pod cast. Great show!!

@samwilson2300 2 ай бұрын

Omg. Bring this guy back again soon.

@bigbadthesailor5173 2 ай бұрын

he has some cracking episodes on his now slightly dormant channel PlugLifeTelevision.

@chrisdsouza8685 2 ай бұрын

@@bigbadthesailor5173Thanks.

@chrisdsouza8685 2 ай бұрын

@@bigbadthesailor5173Thanks.

@jeromeandre4915 2 ай бұрын

Excellent 👌 stuff Rob, Quentin and Euan! Excellent source of info.

@Jaw0lf 2 ай бұрын

I loved how Euan McTurk has a massive knowledge of batteries and can explain this in a simple manor. An amazing guest.

@stephenclay6852 2 ай бұрын

What a brilliant pod cast.

@maxtorque2277 2 ай бұрын

Great episode guys! I'm typing this on a PC that is powered by the sun that fell on my roof earlier today, and that energy has been stored in some cells that originally drove a Gen! Leaf around for a few years until the owner carelessely wrote it off in a crash! That leaf was worth as much as the battery as it was as a working car.....

@homerbeer943 2 ай бұрын

Dr McTurk is a fantastic communicator on a very technical topic.

@freeheeler09 2 ай бұрын

Hey guys, great talk! My take on batteries is that we really, really, really need affordable, home storage batteries. To cover my winter energy needs and go off grid, I need 40 kWh of storage The price that would disrupt our existing, corrupt electricity utility cartels would be $10,000 for that 40 kWh battery

@rogerstarkey5390 2 ай бұрын

Or.... Someone needs to place a container sized battery locally to act as a "community buffer". Why? One complaint has been the installation cost/ complexity of connecting homes, especially regarding the connection/ sale of excess to the grid, and those homes sending energy when the grid is shut down for repair. . Solution (?) Connect 200(or whatever?) homes, each with rooftop solar, to a single "big battery". . Instead of "200" connections requiring switching to/ from the grid, you have 1. . Solar in excess of the individual building needs can go straight to the battery. . If the A I controller (yes, it will be) determines that the collective output will exceed needs for the coming period, that controller will request access to the grid. . The grid will control the *outward* access by the battery. That energy will be sold only when the controller, (which is "working" for the home and battery owners!) calculates there's a maximum potential profit. . IF there's insufficient solar, or the Controller believes there will be over the coming period, it will buy energy at the cheapest possible price from the grid *before* it's needed. (It may even negotiate "purchase" or "loan" of energy from "the battery in the next town", owned by the same company, at low, or zero rate?) . When one or more homes need extra energy, it's fed back from the battery at zero cost, up to the point where the battery requires outside supply. .

@SteelCityRider Ай бұрын

So refreshing to listen to someone who has a deep understanding of the subject matter and can clearly articulate the facts!

@ramblerandy2397 2 ай бұрын

Euan McTurk is brilliant. One can truly rely on his knowledge.

@t1n4444 2 ай бұрын

Nobody is suggesting this recent guest can't bang on like an expert he is purported to be but unless you have a decent education you wouldn't necessarily understand the half what he tells us. Or, as earlier, care. Some might just bite on the utter greenyness of not burning fossil fuels, yet are happy not to question too closely the means of electricity production, or the less than green methods of building batteries and consequent production of CO2. There may be other equally qualified experts out there in reality land who may have slightly different views and opinions, or perhaps radically different views. Robert et al are renowned for conjuring up experts who are happy to perform the confirmation bias thing to support their narrative. Quentin is not bad at all at asking the questions and steering the responses to support the intended thrust of the program. Recently a disturbing trend can be seen when some poster questions Robert and then gets labelled as a troll if their view differs from Robert's sermonising. No Robert, Quentin and Dan, they aren't trolls as you insist but merely responding with an alternative point of view. As before and to repeat, if you set out your stall you must expect your merchandise to be scrutinised minutely. If said merchandise is not quite up to scratch then you must expect the customer to "complain". Similarly if you set up your stall so as to "mythbust" what you don't agree with then you will find your mythbusting to be debunked as arrant nonsense in itself. I note too that recently there appears to be a diminishing of the comments. One might decide you're losing your online audience. Time to reflect on the name and aim of your channels perhaps?

@ramblerandy2397 2 ай бұрын

@@t1n4444 I do see what you're saying here, but do remember that Robert et al only have this arm of their show to counter the overwhelming twaddle that is spoken against clean energy technology. And it is accepted the new technology isn't perfect. But there most certainly is an agenda to maintain the old status quo. There's far too much money to be lost for the old die-hards to walk away. And videos like this are made to set the record straight. If it seems a bit pulpit like, well that's the style that has evolved over years. There are other shows that offer the information in a different style.

@t1n4444 2 ай бұрын

Hmm ... but the twaddle extends to the contents of Robert's platform too . Robert scoffs at the idea of lithium ion battery packs, as used in battery EVs, self igniting. It may be he has his own agenda with batteries but it's known that lithium ion batteries do self ignite. A few weeks ago he had a guest, Arun(?) banging on about lithium batteries which could maintain 100% charge capacity with just a 15 minute recharge using water cooled cells. And yes this Arun was correct ... provided you recharged them several times a day. Intrigued by this Arun's nonsense I researched what other stuff he had been involved with. Imagine my surprise when a clip emerged on him advising another interviewer on how to reduce the many lithium ion battery fires occurring in India. His response was that these batteries had probably suffered physical damage with no mention of any electrical issues. If Robert wants to use such cowboys as a guest then perhaps Robert should have researched the absolute twaddle this bloke was capable of coming out with first.

@ramblerandy2397 2 ай бұрын

@@t1n4444 I think you'll find that Robert actually accepts the idea that Lithium Ion based batteries can self ignite, if heavily provoked. But what counters with is the incidence level. Mainstream media would have anyone clutching at the keys to their petrol/diesel cars, when independent data shows us that the incidence level of ICEVs catching fire is way higher. It's just not reported. Therefore this show offers to counter with the truth. Robert often talks of himself as the old duffer who knows little. That's not totally true, but sometimes it happens. I don't view everything that TFCS outputs, but generally it is very informative and well intentioned. If you spot inconsistencies, then great. Hopefully, TFCS will learn from it.

@t1n4444 2 ай бұрын

@@ramblerandy2397 😂😂😂😂 Ref your last comment, "you'd hope so ..."

@chriss4949 2 ай бұрын

IGNORE then MOCK then FEAR then ATTACK then ACCEPT then COPY……the stages that have to be gone through. Different legacy manufacturers are at different stages Powerful Fossil Fuel industry has an active policy of sticking between 3&4 and is funding the slow-down of the transition between the phases

@frankcoffey 2 ай бұрын

Most of the people who are expecting their EV battery to last 200,000 miles have never kept a gas car to that many miles. If you really do drive it that much you have already got your money's worth out of it and saved a LOT of money on maintenance, gas, and oil. So even if the car is not cost effective to repair you should just replace the entire car and your next EV will be cheaper and better because the technology is advancing faster than you replace your car.

@patreekotime4578 2 ай бұрын

Yeah, the whole conversation about battery life has gone so ridiculous. Any car from the 80s or 90s with 200,000 miles on it that I ever saw looked like it had been through a hurricane and barely survived. Cars built in the 70s rarely survived half that. Cars from the 2010s seem to last a bit longer... but seats and upholstry and headliner and suspension all start to go bad eventually. Its like the range argument... cars from the 90s rarely got more than 350 miles to the tank... it wasnt until the hybrid and performance deisel revolutions of the 2000s that people suddenly had more range... but now they absolutely have to have 600 miles out of an EV... its just insanity.

@NeilHarper2001 2 ай бұрын

I've kept most of my ICEs for over 150k miles ...... they still go fine but I can vouch that the experience is extremely degraded.... maybe the mpgs don't drop (too) much the smoke, smell, noise and reliability are definitely less than 80% of the original... looking forward to my first EV....

@chrishar110 2 ай бұрын

The last 25 years I bought 6 cars with over 100k miles each, for £300-2000, as much money I make in one month. I kept all these cars for 3-4 years just doing the minimum maintainance (personally or at the shop) to be safe and not break down. I never had a car that I would smile at the moment I opened the door. It was just a tool to use to do what it suppose to do. To move me from place A to place B. When the cost was over a month's wage to fix them, I scraped them and was ready for the next one. Two years ago I bought a used EV 4 yo with very low mileage, 16k, for what I make in 6 months and I think that I will keep it till it dies. I am 56, so I don't have too many years to drive. That car doesn't rust (aluminium body, carbon fiber chassis, and plastic panels) so one of the reasons that I scraped the other cars is off. I don't make more than 10k miles every year, so I can use that car for at least 10-15 years. At this moment, a new motor, a new gearbox or a used battery cost almost what I make in 2-3 months, so I think that as long I can find these parts, new or used, I can replace them (not me personally) and I can have this car till I stop driving. At least, now I have a car that I smile when I drive it, I can say I love to drive it. Easy to drive, nippy, quiet, with all the bells and whistles and safety features that I want. By the way, I am HGV driver doing 3-500 miles every day.

@ruperttodd8639 2 ай бұрын

Most cars aren’t owned by one person there whole life, a normal car is usually scrapped at around 500,000 miles, many over that as it’s not a bell curve

@st-ex8506 2 ай бұрын

@@ruperttodd8639 I don't know on what planet you live for cars to "usually" last 500'000 miles! Here in France, The average gasoline car will not do more than 100'000 miles, and 150'000 miles for the average diesel. Sure, pampered ones will last longer. Sure, you can change the engine or the transmission... and everything for that matter... but is it economically worth it? I have kept some cars to their end (around 200'000 miles for a petrol BMW)... and it wasn't because they couldn't be driven anymore, but because it would have been way too expensive to fix them to the level necessary to pass our regular technical inspections!

@TheSpacek1d 2 ай бұрын

Absolutely right with what they have been saying, I have a 24kw leaf and have done 150,000 miles and the battery has lost 1 bar off the battery display in the car, have done anything special and used the car as a car day in day out, and I do believe the battery pack will last longer than the car will, best move I could have made from an ICE car that died at 100,000 miles, a great podcast.

@ronfarnsworth7074 2 ай бұрын

44min full of info. Worth every second. Awesome!

@HarmLessSolutionsNZ Ай бұрын

What a brilliant presenter and presentation. This video is such a valuable resource to be able to counter the EV FUD commenters, and even some NZ centric info to take away for us EVers in the antipodes. Thank you 👍

@skydronewanderer2052 2 ай бұрын

A Brilliant Podcast I hope you bring Dr Euan Mc Turk back again for updates on battery technology in the future but one question I have on Electric vehicles is when trading in your car is depreciation how much Electric cars depreciate compared to a petrol or diesel car

@t1n4444 2 ай бұрын

😂😂😂😂 Don't be so idle! Get on the vehicle resale price websites and see for yourself. Get an approximate price for free, or subscribe and furnish more details as invited get a more "exact" price. You should know the figure you get is merely a "guide" and no dealer is obliged to do any more than view this figure as anything other than a "guide".

@puntuated7647 2 ай бұрын

This podcast is full of really sensible information and should be applauded. Perhaps all those relevant journalists in the media be sent a copy inside an easter egg!

@julianskidmore293 2 ай бұрын

Investing in battery tech startups (33:47): why don't they launch them as cooperatives? I've been part of 2 Wind Farm cooperatives and there's always over-commitment from the public. I would be pretty sure that if they tried to CoopStart battery tech startups, you'd get £millions from EV owners and people who can't yet afford an EV, but want one. Go down the Cooperative route?

@davidpacholok8935 Ай бұрын

Dr. EUAN Thanks for a great podcast! I must, as a retired EE who has consulted on EV onboard level 2 chargers for Bosch Automotive America, take exception with two points: 1. Yes if done correctly module replacement to repair an EV battery is done correctly no safety issue should arise. Ideally the bad module should be replaced by one with the Same cell type in the same somewhat degraded state as in the remaining battery. And in the same state of charge. Why? Module voltage equalatization has its limits, and these vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. This is not always possible due to used module supplies, and indeed matching the condition is at best an educated guess even when swept frequency Z measurements, etc suggest module equality in condition. 2. Your suggestion that worn EV batteries should be used for private in home energy storage systems i fraught with Danger. A distressing number of these home made systems have led to fires and off gas explosion. It might be fine if ALL of the BMS systems including Thermal Management ie liquid cooling, pumps, heat exchangers are removed from the same or like model from which the old battery came. Unfortunately a quick search of eBay will reveal that All the support systems designed in by the ev manufacturer is seldom included with the battery, especially the Critical Cooling System. This can turn a safe EV battery into lithium time bomb. Please see StacheD Training for examples of these sad events. Respectfuly, David Pacholok CEC LLC cecinduction@gmail.com

@RWBHere Ай бұрын

Thanks @Everything Electric Show. This conversation is Gold. Assuming that I have your permission to share this with other people, I'll make good use of it. (Not re-posting, but sharing the link with contacts.) 🙂👍.

@crm114. 2 ай бұрын

Excellent podcast. Thanks.

@mspalmboy 2 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for this excellent podcast. I've just subscribed to Euan's KZfaq channel.

@howardgarde3210 2 ай бұрын

I have a 2015 nissan leaf that has done 140k miles and still fine. I did upgrade the battery from 24 - 40 kwh at 85k miles when it had degraded by 10%. New second hand battery has only been charged to 80% and is still on 12 bars.

@frejaresund3770 2 ай бұрын

I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.

@AmerBoyo Ай бұрын

Great talk chaps, long thought the money simply isn’t there in this country at the most critical stage - sure this must be deliberate. Hopefully Labour will change that if/when they get in. We’re rapidly losing out on the opportunity of a lifetime!

@patreekotime4578 2 ай бұрын

Sodium Ion really is amazing. No cobalt, no lithium, very little to no nickel, and no copper. The raw materials cost is a tiny fraction of what lithium ion cells cost. The expectation is that they will eventually reach a similar energy density to LFP cells, but with longer life, and potentially dramatically faster charging rates. They wont catch on fire, they arent bothered by cold or heat, and there is absolutely no concern about materials scarity or the ethics of sourcing them. They also have the advantage of not being as vulnerable to commodoties speculation and price manipulation as lithium-based chemistries. They are the batteries that could get us ALL to an electric future. I cant wait. Solid state appears to just be a hype train, and in some cases an investment racket. Maybe it will prove useful for airplanes, but the basic premise is packing more expensive materials into the same space to get higher energy densities. Do we really need that for cars when the average EV range is already climbing above 250 miles and they are already too darned expensive?

@rogerstarkey5390 2 ай бұрын

The idea is right, but you need more education on cell construction, energy density and chemistry.

@patreekotime4578 2 ай бұрын

@@rogerstarkey5390 Oh yeah? And what parts did I get wrong? Hmm?

@tysonn4736 2 ай бұрын

Being so inexpensive, sodium already has a clear advantage for stationary storage. We should be putting in reams and reams of stationary sodium batteries.

@nettlesoup 2 ай бұрын

@@patreekotime4578Sodium ion batteries, despite predating lithium ion tech, have never gone through the same accelerated advances as Li-ion did in the past three decades. They are about to do so, and they have a very bright future in low cost, lower mileage vehicles. However, the technological and chemistry advances are only in the early research stages by comparison. There is a long way to go, and due to the nature of the chemistry, Li-ion will always have the upper hand for certain high performance applications. Jordan from The Limiting Factor channel did an excellent interview with researcher Shirley Meng about Sodium Ion batteries a couple of days ago. Recommend looking that up here on KZfaq if you want to hear more about what the bleeding edge is in that area.

@patreekotime4578 2 ай бұрын

@@tysonn4736 I really want to see a sodium ion battery bank sitting next to every single substation. It would basically eliminate brown outs and eliminate peaker plants and make the grid more flexible to intermittant power like solar and wind. They really need to be everywhere!

@patrickmckowen2999 2 ай бұрын

Best episode I've listened to so far 👍👍

@lawrence18uk Ай бұрын

Very encouraging. On your discussion about battery-life, yes, our well-worn experience with batteries - in gerneral - colours our perception. That will take time to adjust. And another thing is, that a battery is a "MYSTERIOUS BLACK-BOX OBJECT" WHOSE INNARDS ARE NOT UNDERSTOOD, AND NOT very INSPECTABLE. SO THE QUESTION ARISES, "HOW DO i MEASURE A BATTERY'S HEALTH?" and "CAN i TRUST THIS MEASUREMENT WHEN SOMEONE SELLING A CAR is quoting a figure?". So I am sure this will be eventually standardised, but it is a genuine issue. We haven't lived with big batteries for very long, yet. 🙂 Like for instance, there may be restrictions on whether certain old cars are permitted on long-distance ferries? (Or at least the battery charge might have to be below a certain level.)

@SwiftyScootersTV 2 ай бұрын

Great podcast, thank you!

@stickleback73 2 ай бұрын

100% agree where is the uk investment in our own grown tech? Every time I see excellent uk engineering and tech end up being owned AND successful in another country drives me mad! Lost opportunities for uk industry.

@chrishar110 2 ай бұрын

Because they need some money to bring that tech in production and guess who has the money. In 30-50 years China will hold all the big companies in the world. They used to work very cheap for our products last 50 years, but we will work for them for the rest of our life.

@1964mcqueen 2 ай бұрын

My 2014 Nissan Leaf, with the poorest battery management on the road, is still going strong as a daily driver. I expect the battery to meet my needs for another 5 years, at which time it will be used for stationary storage of solar electricity. The rest of the car, drive train especially, is still like new. If I decide to upgrade to a higher capacity battery after 15 years, that will be the only major service the car will have had. If not, this car will have given me more years of service, with far fewer issues, and substantially less costs than any ICE vehicle I have ever had.

@The18107j 2 ай бұрын

My 2011 Leaf still has more than triple the range it needs for my use case. I don't see the battery getting replaced before the rest of the car fails.

@julianskidmore293 2 ай бұрын

So, I'm still using a 22kWh Renault Zoe 2016 with about 62K miles on the clock. I bought it with 693 miles on the clock in early Feb 2017. The state of health, back in August (I think) 2022 was 98%; so it's probably a bit lower than that now, but not much. I tend to drive like a grandad - going no faster than 56mph (except in rare circumstances). At 12:00 power needed to travel, I normally see about 11kW - 12kW being used to travel at 56mph on a flat road with no wind.

@AJames-jr8kw 2 ай бұрын

"I normally see about 11kW - 12kW being used to travel at 56mph on a flat road with no wind." Good to know. I often thought an estate version of the Zoe would be a slippery car. Seems the actual version is not bad at 90kmh.

@urbanstrencan Ай бұрын

Great podcasts keep up with great work spreading knowledge in EV sector 😊❤

@barrymurton8988 2 ай бұрын

We should also be installing wind farms and solar on old PS sites. The advantage here is that those locations already have a connection to the Grid!

@donfraser9027 2 ай бұрын

What a great pod cast to provide, thank you!!! We own an 2016 BMW i3 60 AH, what would the best charging advice - always be charging, 20/80 range charging or only fully charging when we have 10-20 KM?

@davidhancock91 18 күн бұрын

Can you please do a show on the materials that go into these batteries, how they are mined, and how they are going to be effectively recycled? Thanks

@rogerstarkey5390 2 ай бұрын

UK generation. Just to note that at 11:46am on a cloudy Friday (in London) UK Grid generation stands at. Renewables 25.2 GW. Fossil Fuel 2.7 GW Nuclear 4.0 GW. . (I make that 79% Renewable?) . No brainer?

@caterthun4853 Ай бұрын

Euan is a fantastic comunicator.

@danielmadar9938 Ай бұрын

Thanks

@azsqa6286 Ай бұрын

Great video. Thanks

@scottcompany4040 2 ай бұрын

Great content and Euan McTurk is excellent contributor who described quite technical information in a way a numpty like me can understand easily. This has given me loads of comebacks for the dino-juice users in the local pub who spout about how ALL EVs catch fire and destroy the earth.

@grantcurrin4934 Ай бұрын

I've been a fan of electric cars since I saw our local power supplier advertise one way back in 1982... it did not take, but my dream of one day having one did. It is painful to see how polarized the factions are. I've come to the conclusion that a intrum 30 year window should have hybrid vehicals especially in the developing areas of Plant Earth, to enforce ridgid ev requirements are only slowing down the whole conversion. I'm 100% ev fan. And 100% for common sense. Like a compost heap, a slow burn is beneficial. 🎉

@jondavies5885 2 ай бұрын

3 secs in and assume Quentin's phone going off again. Someone tell him how to put it on silent. Quite loud in headphones. Happened a few times in previous casts.

@nettlesoup 2 ай бұрын

Agreed. It only takes five minutes to write a Formula 1 style checklist of things to prep before starting the interview. Phone to silent should be on the list... and keep that list to hand before every interview!

@JBean_COCR 2 ай бұрын

great stuff!

@driftlessheights6177 2 ай бұрын

This is great info. Thanks. Do you have any idea when I can see less expensive, more durable batteries for my power tools? (Chain saw, drill, leaf blower, etc.) The current crop is expensive and doesn't last.

@chilllytube 2 ай бұрын

That could be simply built-in obsolescence - they want you to buy a new battery. On the other hand, Power tool batteries live a really tough life. They have to deliver very heavy current yet they need to be as light-weight as possible. That means they are prone to degrade. They work MUCH harder than leccy car batteries.

@waynerussell6401 Ай бұрын

Understand battery chemistry. LiIon batteries will last a very long time if not overheated or held at high voltage. Buy a timer outlet and only charge to ~80% and don't drain the battery below 20%. Never fully charge or totally drain and leave. If storing leave at ~50% charge. recharge at least once a year to 50%. Store in the fridge.

@DFS71 Ай бұрын

Im thinking of getting a Zoe 40kw. Would the battery on that still have decent range to be the only car for a family?

@scottbarrett4746 2 ай бұрын

That bit at about 33 minutes - a few £100k investment = risky but can afford the loss - a few £1bn investment in something proven = almost guaranteed return. The first one is engineer/scientist led. The second is business led. The bit in between is not a new problem. It's the story of British engineering innovation for the last 100 years!

@forestrybasics7240 Ай бұрын

Any info on how the batteries last over long periods of time if the car has low milage. One of the last arguments against EVs I have read is that they might last 500 000km but if someone drives only 10 000km a year, they can't last 20 or 30 years. I have googled but there doesn't seem to be a clear answer.

@matthewbrown435 2 ай бұрын

Great content as always, but only recommendation is to put the audio through an "s" filter, my dog had to leave the room with all the high pitched "esses" distortion - yikes! 😵‍💫

@erbster200 2 ай бұрын

A very interesting podcast and a very knowledgeable speaker. However, I think there is an error at 28 mins. Dr McTurk refers to the anode as being negative and the cathode as positive. Is this not the wrong way around?

@t1n4444 2 ай бұрын

You could always Google this. Oops, should have added "it all depends".

@erbster200 2 ай бұрын

@@t1n4444 I was being polite. It is an error.

@t1n4444 2 ай бұрын

@@erbster200 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Clearly you didn't do the Google thing. Do it today.

@h2rider953 2 ай бұрын

FUD is alive and well. Electrify Everything #stopburningstuff

@rogerstarkey5390 2 ай бұрын

FUD is and will remain an indication of how well "the industry" (you know who) is doing, how much those in control of the old system are willing to spend, and how worried they are. . Now If they were SMART.... They might recognise the inevitability of change and jump into the greatest multi generational opportunity.... Ever!

@FranciscoNogueira 2 ай бұрын

Another great episode ALTHOUGH PLEASE make sure the sound quality doesn't get as bad as in this episode in the future. The high pitch from the guest is almost unbearable to listen.

@gazzaman28 2 ай бұрын

My 9 year old i3 is on 115k miles, it had a claimed 85 miles range at new, but realistically it was 55-70 miles depending on the temperature and how fast you drive. Right now I can still get 50-65 miles, so degradation is minimal.

@snodgee 2 ай бұрын

I get range anxiety in my diesel car when I get down to 150 miles

@gazzaman28 2 ай бұрын

@@snodgeeit takes a new mindset to drive a small battery EV. Having said that, I do have a 600cc range extender petrol engine which makes long journeys possible, but I take pride in not using it as much as possible!!

@AJames-jr8kw 2 ай бұрын

I didn't know about how electricity prices were set in the UK. That is nuts. The highest bidder sets the prices! Do all countries work like this?

@charleswillcock3235 2 ай бұрын

If you like mental corrupt ideas the UK is full of them. Clearly the cheapest supplier would not be taking politicians to expensive restaurants and corporate hospitality etc. to explain their services.

@robsmith1a 2 ай бұрын

The third party battery repair and upgrade services at sensible prices are essential to make buyers of older cars more confident with their purchase. That and good charging options for people who can't charge at home - it's too expensive and inconvenient at the moment for people used to the ease of filling up every 500 miles in five minutes.

@waynerussell6401 Ай бұрын

Battery repair is not economic. The emphasis on all modern products is reliability, not repairability.

@flashsushi1843 13 күн бұрын

Soon, we should see third-party battery vendors or manufacturers offering an extended 6 or 8-year battery and EV components warranty for $10,000 USD. If the fail rates are below 3%, it just doesn't make sense NOT to sell insurance against these battery pack failures, which according to experts, should easily last beyond eight years. Until the battery warranties are longer and/or battery pack replacement availability and cost are certain (like Tesla) or new battery chemistry data points show 15/16 years minimum, it's going to be hard to adopt an EV when reliable ICE we already own can easily last 20 years and beyond. Sure we pay for fuel but depreciation (residual value)on any new or newish vehicle is the biggest component contributing to overall cost of ownership especially when the vehicle is not driven into the ground.

@timsmith5339 Ай бұрын

You have to think that certain sections of the populace don't want to know these facts. If 8 year/100000 mile warranties on the batteries doesn't hint at their longevity, you have to suspect wilful ignorance!

@Jetter638 2 ай бұрын

What is the cost to replace a battery for a Tesla. I saw a video where the cost of replacing a Hyundai Ionic 5 battery is $60K. Car basically has to be sold for scrap at that point.

@user-mu9nm8zy8n 6 күн бұрын

I have a 120ah (42kwh) BMW i3, which has just passed 105,000 miles. I haven't noticed any reduction in range.

@zapfanzapfan 2 ай бұрын

To give an idea of how long even small older lithium batteries can last, I have a digital camera from 2007 that I still use with the original battery. It predates even the original Nissan Leaf 🙂

@frankcoffey 2 ай бұрын

The misinformation about EVs saved me $20,000 US. Demand was too high in 2022 and the Tesla Model Y LR was about $70,000. By the time I bought mine in 2023 it was down to about $50,000. I think misinformation did demand management for me and brought the price down.

@rogerstarkey5390 2 ай бұрын

On the reducing price of Tesla vehicles. . 1) Read "Master plan 2006" (now AKA Master plan . Includes "We will drive down prices". (Inevitable, I you think about it) . 2) On Why and how they do that...? I firmly believe Tesla has an "in house formula" . Material cost (variable) +Build cost +Sundry cost + *A fixed CASH amount per vehicle of a particular model* (AKA "Profit", but not percentage profit.) . Aim? Provision of sufficient *debt free* cash for reinvestment into the master plan to achieve the objective.... . Essentially "Good housekeeping" (CERTAINLY wise in recent times?) . Result? 1) A customer gets *the best price on their day of purchase* 2) That price may vary in either direction. 3) The price *will trend downwards* over time as production volume improves economy of scale. . So buy the product secure in the knowledge it's the best, understand that the resale value will decrease over time, but rely on the efficiency and ease of use to offset that decline. . Oh.... And maybe keep a log of mileage, plus fossil fuel cost for a few months, then estimate the savings based on your previous vehicle.

@StewartMidwinter 2 ай бұрын

Picky little point here from 🇨🇦. Dr. McTurk is at the University of Edinburgh, right? That makes him not the leading Battery chemist in Britain, but the leading Battery chemist in the United Kingdom.

@erbster200 2 ай бұрын

The terms Britain and united kingdom are almost interchangeable. “Britain” is not the same as “England”

@AJames-jr8kw 2 ай бұрын

Britain, is an island in the North Atlantic Ocean off the north-west coast of continental Europe, consisting of England, Scotland and Wales. You are conflating England with Britain ( or Great Britain)

@StewartMidwinter 2 ай бұрын

You are right, I made a mistake!

@philipjones2474 2 ай бұрын

@@StewartMidwinterNot entirely, unless we want to forget Northern Ireland. Which often happens 😢

@lancebybee7962 2 ай бұрын

The five year battery myth comes from the need to replace car batteries (12 volt) every 5 years. Also stories about old electric cars having new batteries installed.

@StuartAT 2 ай бұрын

I'd vote for him

@judebrown4103 Ай бұрын

Oh I wish our local council had listened to this before arbitrarily refusing a battery storage installation to go with a solar farm. Some antideluvian so called professor encouraged the locals to protest that the whole thing would catch fire and poison everyone downwind of it because it couldn't be extinguished. I'm not keen on covering acres of land in solar panels but the Cleve Hill installation would have powered 91,000 homes. So frustrating but maybe we can get the council to talk about putting solar on industrial roofs and over carparks instead...🤔

@amigang 2 ай бұрын

Again a great podcast, but we really need to target this information at the people who dont know. I think create a A4 advert /leaflet that has all the info that could be place in magazine or given out would be a good idea, target racing / car magazine would be a good idea. Even advert in the Daily Mail / Telegraph (i know helping the enemy) but this info really need to hit people who dont know and creative ways!

@peterjol 2 ай бұрын

there is no doubt the experience with all consumer gadgets that use batteries doesn't inspire any confidence in the idea of a car running on a battery and that is hard to get over.

@snodgee 2 ай бұрын

Nearly ever week for the last couple of years a company has said we have a new battery solution but none of them have came with the goods

@waynerussell6401 Ай бұрын

And yet the bestselling vehicle in the world has a battery.

@BobQuigley 2 ай бұрын

Cheap energy is how we got into this mess to begin with. No respect for what it takes to operate power systems. Here in US at least 50% is wasted. No problem spending huge amounts on McMansions obnoxious SUVs and ridiculous flights for frivolous reasons. But raise the price of THE SOURCES OF POWER WHICH ENABLES THIS OBSCENE WASTE and all hell breaks loose. We are 100% energy blind

@t1n4444 2 ай бұрын

A very well crafted episode. Minimum "muted" input from Quentin and more from the guest. However, Quentin failed to grasp the nettle in that in the public's perception if one battery EV can catch fire then all battery EVs can catch fire. It doesn't have to be true of course it just has to sound convincing. We do read of lithium cells catching fire so that's all the "convincing" the general public need to justify their collective view. The recent events of London buses bursting into flames is a case in point. Even if the batteries didn't catch fire and it was another "component" then the general public will simply decide that the battery industry are "just saying that" to cover their corporate arse. Looking at the recent Cap Hpi findings then another issue is the quite large depreciation seen on battery EV vehicles, and that's in only a year. Residuals are disappointing and the second owner will find they didn't quite get the bargain they thought when they sell on in turn. The guest did try his best to explain the technicalities but how many of the car buying public understand the science? Or care? There were some contradictory statements in the episode too. Merely a matter of re-playing the episode and hearing for yourselves. It's all very well to hear batteries will last for almost eternity but that can't be proved. Nobody can say with any accuracy whatsoever how individual battery packs will be treated, or perhaps abused, much like ICE vehicles. The so called holy grail of solid state batteries might work very well in a modeling exercise but that comes under the "jam tomorrow" heading. Sodium ion might be an answer to a maiden's prayer ref safety but the current science tells us they require more frequent recharging. Would that be considered an inconvenience? Then we learned of a certain shyness on the part of the money men to invest in battery tech for EVs. We then heard that investment for huge static storage is of interest. Quentin then tells us that these battery farms are desirable for "balancing" the grid. What does he even mean by such a term? Would this work in the same fashion as Dinorwic, say? Would certainly appreciate learning more about Quentin's take on what that's all about. Over to you on that one Robert. It may well slot in to the "everything electric" department.

@gregbailey45 2 ай бұрын

Sincerely, you really need better education on renewables and EV tech in particular. So many issues you have shown ignorance about.

@t1n4444 2 ай бұрын

😂😂😂😂 Really? Then carry on and enlighten us. We're all agog.

@BobQuigley 2 ай бұрын

2018 model 3 70,000 miles per recurrent battery website still at 97%. 2018 leaf 45,000 miles at 99%.

@nehtals 2 ай бұрын

3 years ago, I got my first EV and people told me, there no point, batteries will be faster and better in 3 years and you’ll be left with a worthless lithium lump. That hasn’t changed, almost all EVs li and go around 300 miles on a charge. Still waiting for the silver bullet

@stephenbrickwood1602 2 ай бұрын

Has feed-in tariffs improved ??????

@davidrowewtl6811 Ай бұрын

I worry about the long term support of our cars software. Some based on 2g/3g are about to become left out.

@vevenaneathna 2 ай бұрын

lot of chevy volts with 450-600,000 miles now with no noticeable range degradation. they tend to die after the clutch packs in their transmission go bad. the gen2 use a metal cvt like belt instead of the big expensive mechanical gears thats the 1st gen used. gen1 and gen2 have almost the same battery, except the gen2 lets you use more like 80% of the battery pack, where the gen1 only lets you use ~67%. its basically bulletproof and doesnt weigh very more. the gen1 does a lot with just ~10kwh usable. they predate superchargers too so no uber drivers are dc fast charging the cells out of balance all day long. you know the batteries last forever when 2nd hand ones are basically the price of shipping coz no one wants them. ~600USD if you pick them up in person around here. the cooling system is pretty over the top. too.

@safebatteries8315 Ай бұрын

YET, MORE HYPE FROM THE BOYS IT EES

@simonpannett8810 2 ай бұрын

Batteries hardly entering Marine vessels yet but such a huge market!! Also the Diesel-Electric trains need to take advantage of improvements in batteries to be Electric only!!

@stephenbrickwood1602 2 ай бұрын

Ask about V2G EVs and life time

@jimsouthlondon7061 2 ай бұрын

How long before you can buy brand new battery packs out the factory on Amazon

@rogerstarkey5390 2 ай бұрын

Never. Next question

@robinhood4640 2 ай бұрын

@@rogerstarkey5390 Do you have a time machine?

@rogerstarkey5390 2 ай бұрын

Well.... Let's see... They're BIG.... and HEAVY.... and require specialist equipment to move them..... and require expert handling during installation..... and expert handling during disposal (for full recycling!) . So unless you have a fully set up garage with multiple lift systems (1 for the car, 1 for the battery) a knowledge of high voltage equipment, the skills to carry out the work on that vehicle and a means of disposal of the old pack, I would imagine a battery replacement (Outside of Warranty!) would be a case of: 1) Contact a specialist. . 2) Have them determine if it NEEDS replacement, or just repair. . 3) Order a new, or refurbished pack from a recognised supplier (or the OEM) under an "exchange" agreement (as with an engine?) This would lower the cost..... . 4) Remove the pack. . 5) Have the *specialist* courier from the supplier deliver the new unit, AND collect the old one, with required safety protocols observed (discharge/ isolation, etc) No text saying "delivered, behind the bins" when you specifically said "don't"... . 6) Reinstallation. . Now, one thing to consider is that a pack is nowhere near as labour intensive as an engine to swap. . It's bolts and connectors, not a long removal followed by a bench strip down of ancillaries, (more if you get a short block) and multi-day rebuild. . The saving in labour cost will be substantial, to the point that a DIY rebuild isn't worth the hassle. . imo

@gazza595 2 ай бұрын

Were you actually listening to the PodCast? Why on Earth would that ever be necessary? If a traction battery lasts >200K miles the rest of the vehicle, in most cases, will be worn worn out. The lifecycle is very likely that vehicle will be used until it's either damaged beyond economic repair or simply mechanically worn out then the traction battery will go into the second user market.

@philipjones2474 2 ай бұрын

@@gazza595Perhaps he was referring to that part of the podcast where they were talking about upgrade battery packs for secondhand vehicle sales? There's also the scope for removable battery packs. There's a Spanish EV manufacturer highlighted in videos that incorporate removable battery packs (2 per vehicle) so you can recharge them in your home if you can't have/afford a EV charger. Sounds a very interesting idea to me and if it became more widely accepted and there was some standardisation of connection then buying from the party retailers is not out of the question. Not just yet, tho. I guess 😂

@jonb5493 Ай бұрын

At last! Someone is talking about after-market battery upgrades by third-parties. If only more govt + industry supervision and standardisation came to this.

@3rd_Rock 2 ай бұрын

I’ve not heard much about electrical faults on EVs. Having driven cars for nearly 40 years, the most difficult fault to narrow down has invariably been electrical in nature. Even with the benefit of plug in diagnostics, it’s generally a case of stripping down, pulling fuses, and replacing components in a process of illumination. This can be in terms of labour, a lengthy and costly process. Looking at modern EVs, more and more functions are being controlled by electrical interfaces, including autopilot systems. Do you envisage reliability being an issue; other than the battery?

@rogerstarkey5390 2 ай бұрын

I'll draw an analogy from my area of expertise. The Photocopier. Circa 1988, when I joined the industry (repairing).... They were heavy, dirty, unreliable "electromechanical" machines. With basic electronics, but with limited control and poor diagnostic features. . A machine of the first type I worked on would (for instance) monitor the toner supply every 10 copies and if you had a dirty sensor might either not supply *any* toner, or "dump" the maximum amount possible. Neither outcome was "desirable". A technician ("i") would arrive to find a single display with a spanner and a single digit number 1-4. . Reliability, "copies between calls" might be counted in single thousands depending on the model. . Then, in 1991(?) while training, I learned that the company in question used a "neural net" to train the machine for toner supply. . (We all know how it works now) . Obviously, the control systems (electronics) had also advanced. . The term "Quantum leap" was appropriate. We were now at 10 checks *per second* using more parameters and multiple tens of thousands of copies between calls, with faults trending towards mechanical failure. . The first action of a technician, instead of setting up the vacuum cleaner, would be to print a diagnostic ("SMC") report listing the previous codes, compiled from maybe 1,000 options. (Indication of the brand there, for those in the know!) . A good technician could diagnose the majority of issues without even opening a door/ cover. . See the similarity? . Then, the electronics continued to improve, becoming faster, cheaper, more capable of monitoring more parameters, more often. . This is what we have to look forward to with EVs. . You will see *predictive* problem diagnosis and to some extent remedial action *on the vehicle, BY the vehicle* . You will receive a prompt from the vehicle to contact service within a week, or simply receive a call *from* the local technician advising they attend to check a problem, at a location of your choice, with a predicted price for the on site confirmation and the repair. . They will arrive with parts (including options suggested by their diagnostic system) . In 99.99% of cases, the diagnosis will be spot on. No more "2pm service phone call" advising that "it's more of a problem than we thought". . So, in answer to your "reliability being an issue" question *Absolutely not*

@3rd_Rock 2 ай бұрын

@@rogerstarkey5390 Many thanks for your excellent analogy. I can see that like every technology there will be a gradual improvement curve, I just hope that the OEM technicians and local 3rd party service centres keep up with the latest training as you quite clearly did. My next car will most likely be an EV, I am sure I will never regret the move, it’s like everything else in life, you just have to find the right advice. Many thanks for your help.

@gazzaman28 2 ай бұрын

OEMs are not very good at properly fixing faults because it's in their best interests to just swap out an entire component instead, but unfortunately this can be very expensive. Whilst the batteries are still fine, you could often give up on an older EV simply because it's too costly to get electrical repair work done. Companies like Cleevely are the exception, and hopefully they and others will continue to keep old EVs on the road for those of us who can't afford to buy brand new EVs.

@t1n4444 2 ай бұрын

@@rogerstarkey5390 Whilst that may be true for photocopiers how does that relate to the life of a battery? Driving a battery EV at stupid speeds and then recharging the battery at stupid power levels doesn't do a battery much good. Drivers are the culprits in this as they don't all know how to manage their driving and insist on rapid charging if they can get it.

@waynerussell6401 Ай бұрын

@@t1n4444 Rapid charging does not damage the battery. Heat does (Recurrent Auto).

@barrymurton8988 2 ай бұрын

And ICE cars have tank full of a flammable component! 😂 Brilliant vlog guys!

@jamesgrover2005 2 ай бұрын

I've got a Twizy from 2013 80% battery state of health 56200km, it seems to lose most health in the cold months.

@IDann1 2 ай бұрын

I have 2013 Zoé with 80k, and must have at least 90% battery,yes I lose a heap of range in the winter,but I get it back when it's warmer

@mallamal5578 Ай бұрын

With regen braking, i should not need to replace the brake p 18:06 ads/disc's in the car. lifetime of

@tonyrest6714 2 ай бұрын

Sodium sulphate batteries were developed in the 70s. Decade on, and they still haven't been scaled up for production.

@davidpearn5925 Ай бұрын

Dealerships pay advertising revenue to helpful dependent media.......and Big Oil doesn't complain about that either.

@patrickfree5031 Ай бұрын

Agree with all said. My 2017 Tesla MX 100D that recently exceeded 850000km done # all on (free for life) Tesla Superchargers in 7.5Y has Lost less than 10% of its capacity so far. Still more détails are needed on the case of accidents where Tesla and/or the insurere may require battery replacement as soon as AirBags are exercised even after small shocs... Not mentionning the case of Model Y with structural (non modular) battery that require # full car replacement for replacing its battery, with all cells stuck in Tesla pink glue making them irremplaçable and not sure if even recyclable..... This for me is current concern with Tesla

@rogerstarkey5390 2 ай бұрын

Get the clip from 31:10 - 36:40 to someone high up at Tesla.

@barrymurton8988 2 ай бұрын

At everything electric there is a great original mini that has been electrified - Plus there isn’t a distributor cap behind the grill to get wet!

@dmhboag5882 Ай бұрын

No Lucas, prince of darkness!

@gillscorner794 2 ай бұрын

I know of a 2013 leaf with 169000 miles on the clock that still has 75% battery health

@anthonyrichardson9886 3 күн бұрын

The issue with EVs is much more to do with range issues than battery life.

@stephenbrickwood1602 2 ай бұрын

The world's population is changing, markets are changing.

@actuallypaulstanley 2 ай бұрын

The current argument about ICE cars being a “drivers car”, especially manual ones is hilarious too, almost all cars are now automatics since drivers do now want manual. The argument originated with the 0-60 time then EV’s rewrote that one, and now those EV-hating people claim it is the sound and smell of ICE. Always moving the goalposts…

@charleswillcock3235 2 ай бұрын

Clearly nothing can beat the great smell of diesel or petrol knowing it is potentially going to give you cancer.

@dogsbodyish8403 2 ай бұрын

We should also add that the high insurance premiums on some Chinese cars are due to lack of availability of spares - meaning long repair times, and therefore costs (including courtesy car).

@rogerstarkey5390 2 ай бұрын

Where's the data?

@dogsbodyish8403 2 ай бұрын

@@rogerstarkey5390 The Internet is your friend.

@rogerstarkey5390 2 ай бұрын

But the internet doesn't support the opinion

@dogsbodyish8403 2 ай бұрын

@@rogerstarkey5390 Use google on "long repair times insurance costs".

@dmhboag5882 Ай бұрын

Here in Australia I have a BYD Seal, and friends have Atto’s, word is 8 weeks delay for parts like Panels and other common parts, one neighbour waited 3 months for a repair to be done. A Seal in Sydney had a drunk guy get on the roof, he managed to fall through the glass roof and car was written off!! I am trying hard to not hit anything 😜 Also insurance was $300 less than my XJ Shaguar.

@barrymurton8988 2 ай бұрын

Problem is our government, whom ever they are, don’t help the start ups brining the product forward so the start ups go abroad!

@charleswillcock3235 2 ай бұрын

Why does not mainstream report accurately on EVs. Tesla does not spend any money of advertising but ICE manufacturers spend billions. You do not have to be that bright to understand the consequences of that. One of my smartest friends explained the news text in magazines and newspapers is only there to separate the adverts. Something worth remembering.

@agritech802 2 ай бұрын

Simple solution, guarantee the battery for 15 years!

@Muppetkeeper 2 ай бұрын

The only problem with EVs now is when to buy… We have better batteries, better charging network, cheaper prices (still too much though, we need to see the battery cost drops appear in the prices).