Regarding the Class 6 "Clans", remember that they were only Class 6 - there's no way that a Class 6 could ever match the performance of a Class 7 "Brit". That's like asking a Jubilee to match the loadings and performance of a Rebuilt Royal Scot or a Lizzie - never gonna happen no matter how well you drive or thrash it. It's not built to do that and as such it's unfair to compare it with a loco of a higher power classification. The Clans were meant to be a lighter express/mixed traffic loco which could still pull more and faster than a class 5 to work in Scotland with a wide route availability with assumedly poor track conditions, hence the need for wide route availability. Performance reports on the Clans varied greatly dependent on the crews who operated them. Crews who worked with them while on trial in places like the Eastern Region didn't have much opportunity to learn how to drive or fire them properly, leading to overfiring, over driving, and a waste of coal and water, hence reports of bad draughting and high coal consumption. For whatever reason on those same trials the Class 6 was put on workings with loads and timetables better suited to a Brit but still expected to cope. It was never going to work, and Eastern men ended up reporting that the Clan was no better than a Thompson B1 on a good day (still arguably better than a Black 5 ;) ). Meanwhile up in Scotland where the Clans spent most of their time the crews got to know them well and managed to get quite good performances out of them, including very fast acceleration times with heavy expresses which rivaled that of a Peppercorn Pacific, making up time on the Thames-Clyde over the Settle & Carlisle after standing in for a failed loco, and men at Kingmoor reported that the Clans were so efficient that they could work over the whole of the Port Road from Dumfries to Stranraer Harbour without needing to stop for water, quite an achievement considering the length of the Port Road and the stiff grades faced in both directions. I'd personally listen to reports from the Scottish crews since they are the ones who really got to know them. There must have been some truth to those reports, as the additionally planned 15 Clans for the Southern Region would also have included some allocated to the famed Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway where it was anticipated that they would have done away with the need of double-heading trains over the Mendips. Modernisation stopped those plans cold, however, and the S&D sadly closed so we'll never know what could have been, even after 72010 'HENGIST' is completed. But you do have a point about them possibly not fitting in neatly in preservation. Even on mainline tours it's getting to the point that you almost need a Class 7 equivalent at the very least to meet the requirements for the load and the timetable unless it's a small load, and if it's a smaller load it could easily be hauled by the likes of a Class 5 like a Black 5, Jubilee, Thompson B1, Hall, or Standard 5. The Clans by the nature of their design wouldn't reasonably meet the demands of a class 7 but would be too much for a class 5 working. Oddly enough, there doesn't appear to be an in between. Too qualified for one but not qualified enough for the other. People probably wouldn't complain about it too much I'd imagine - they'd probably be too distracted by the fact that a Clan was hauling their train in the first place! I'd say it's less concerning on heritage lines. Heck you've got Bulleids and 9Fs trundling along the equivalents of branch lines at reduced speeds with loads which better describe a stopping local train, and no one really complains or thinks that's out of place. A Clan might even do alright on the Great Central. The 'HENGIST' project aims to show what could have been if the Modernisation Plan had not been enacted so soon and if BR had decided to invest in a development program for the class, like the goal behind the preservation and restoration of 'Duke of Gloucester'. Some proposed changes to the design have included fitting a 250psi boiler to increase the starting tractive effort and indicated horsepower, but personally I think if you're going to do that you might as well build a Brit because that's essentially what you've got at that point, just with 19.5x28in cylinders instead of 20x28in cylinders (30,574lbf vs 32,150lbf on a Brit). I'm not trying to argue with you (you know way more about steam locos than I do so me trying to argue with you would be pointless), just pointing out that the trials with the Clans might have been a bit unfair and the bad reports on its performance may need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Personally, I'm all for new builds, so I support all 3 projects.

As much as I love prewar, victorian and Edwardian locomotives, I think the BR standards have a charm that's been very underappreciated. Not to mention their sturdy reliability, so personally, I welcome new builds. Because if Tornado has proven anything, it's that there is always a place for them.

I can't wait to see all three running. The tanks will find work on the heritage lines and the Clan will on the main line!

Great video Chris, as always. In relation to the 3MT tank build, the business plan/idea behind it was to not only give the SVR a brand new loco, but one that can be used more frequently to give some of the older and larger locos some downtime to help prolong them. The 3MT’s might be small however the SVR ran its Jinty years ago with 6-8 coaches up and down the line, so I’m sure the 3MT will do just fine. One also has to remember that all they’ll ever be asked to maintain is a speed up to 25mph, rather than higher speeds from back in the days of BR. as for new builds in general, I’m all for them regardless of whether they’re absolutely needed or not. It’s great to bring back at least 1 of a class they was sadly eradicated, as it’s all part of history. Lastly, there was/is a small group who started to build a 3MT 2-6-0, number 77021, however their progress has been very slow and updates on their Facebook page are very few and far between. It may or may not ever get built, however at least the idea of a 3MT 2-6-0 new build has happened.

I heavily suspect that thanks to the new build 3MT tank that one day a 3MT tender will be built simply due to fact the 3MT tank's creation of patterns have made the job easier. Also commenting on if the new 3MT tank would be useful for SVR service, well the 57xx pannier tanks, 5101 parires, and the Ivatt 2MT seem to be very useful to the line, and the new engine is in the same bracket of power. Indeed some SVR 'in charge person' said the 3MT is an engine the railway 'Needs'. I'm sure it be fine. Im not sure on the Clan though.

I wish luck to the newbuilts for these extinct classes!~

I have a model version of a 3mt tank and so I’m excited to see 82045 coming along well

I hope the BR Standard 6MT get's finished.

I think that the reason there isn't a class 3 tender loco is because a tanky fits in well better with the Heritage scene and up to the work of all railways except possibly the Moors, and the large water capacity of even the class 2 and 3 tanks means they are more than enough for the length of lines including the SVR (A 51xx will use about a third to half a tank maybe a tad more with steam heat on) and is too small for all bar a niche market on mainline work, much like the origionals, there really isn't a case for them.

What is it with BR building almost a thousand of a thing? 999 Standards. 996 08s.

The Clans always had fans at Holbeck - A Kingmoor man came down to Holbeck (his daughter was at the University of Leeds) and told the Holbeck guys ''exactly'' how to treat them. This they did, and they did a manful job whenever they were on S&C duty. All a Clan needs is a Klychap and a slight streamlining of the internal passages. There are plenty of railtours that are load 8 or load 9 - the Clans could easily do those.

Well Said Chris and thanks for featuring Clan Line in this video and hope you are safe and well

1:54 BR Standard 2MT: *Sniffs* Nobody in preservation loves me anymore, I rather be scrapped in favour of Beechings instead. 2:40 BR Standard 3MT Mogul: You’re not alone, I’m just a misfit who cannot fit in with the “other” engines. 3:36 BR Standard 3MT Tanks: Yeah, thanks a lot Dr. Beechings; I wanted to work on lines where my brother Class BR Std 4MT should not run. Darn you 4MT tanks, you bribed Beechings to update the tracks. 5:25: BR Standard 6MT “Clans”: Darn my drafting failure, darn you Britannia’s and darn you Beechings, look I’m the better performers and I can still pull express trains at 60 mph! BR Standard 2MT: Lets all die together at the scrapyard. BR Standard 3MT Mogul and tanks and BR Standard “Clans”: Agreed. Years later... 5:32 to 5:40 New build manager: Okay, we will make new build replicas of the British Railways Standard 2MT, 3MT tank and a Clan Class One volunteer: What about the BR Standard 3MT Mogul? New build manager: (Laughs) NO!

Very interesting, Chris. Do you think we could have a similar video on the designs of Edward Thompson?

It seems to me that the Standard 6 'Clans' orginally had a similar purpose to the LNER Gresley P2 Class 2-8-2s, to work primarily in Scotland.

The Standards are welcome projects in the preservation scene, and I’m most excited to see Hengist and the Standard 3 mogul when and if they are finished.

Great video. To me the Clans were one of the greatest missed opportunities of post war steam. With improved draughting, say with Kylchap or Kylpor and double chimneys, I do reckon it could have made a big difference. On lines like Glasgow to Stranraer or Stranraer to Carlisle or the Highland mainline, a light Pacific could have made a big difference.

I just realized yesterday that I didnt have notifications on I am glad I turned them on

Also Progress has progressed well on the other 3 Hengist's Frames are getting more and more parts done 82045's Boiler now being constructed and 84030's now got a good amount of work being done after many years of slow progress

Sweden built it's last steam locomotive in 1953 even with extensive electrification of the main lines, diesel engines simply where not reliable enough yet. It was a small class of 20 engines though. One of the driving political reasons for electrification was the plentiful hydroelectric power available in the country which meant Sweden did not need to import coal or oil.

It certainly seems like the Standard 3MT Mogul certainly was the black sheep of the Standards. By the way, I’m working on a KZfaq series called The Death of UK Steam, with the extinct Standards being on the list, using online images and my own personal sketches.

I’m taking a trip to London next year, so if any of these are on the GCR, it will be a treat!

Wasn't expecting a random pic of Mister Rogers in this one! :P

Took the time to read the post card. I am snickering now. Seriously, Covid-19 really can.

There you go Chris, you've proved once again you can review no existing types and make it sound interesting.

Do you think nostalgia plays a heavy part in the rebuilding of these locomotives? As you said, it can be hard to find these engines a proper place and job since they are of awkward size and proportions, so it's not like these engines are being built to meet some demand

I’d much rather see a selection of missing LNER and LMS classes come back, maybe even double up some of the sole survivors and restoration of existing sole survivors like Green Arrow But I’m all for new loco’s, so it’s not such a bad thing whatever we get. I’m not complaining! I just think that there’s certainly already enough GWR, BR standard and Southern region survivors.

I have a Tri-ang 3MT tank from 1960 which is nearly as old as the originals! It’s literally done a million miles, and recently had a major overhaul and now it runs like new. It’s one of the best looking tank engines IMO, so I had to buy a new Bachmann version. I wonder if that will still work in 60 years time?

I've seen how hard it can be for a new engine to fit in. I've watched a lot of Thomas and his friends, and, without the help of the whole crew(including the dirty diesels, Annie and Clarabelle), fitting in on the island can be quite hard work 🥺.

Nice to see the other standards recognized, and brilliant presentation as always. Although, I just about had a coronary when you said "and the ugly Ivatt moguls". I seem to be one of the few who enjoy their utilitarian look (of the single-chimney variants, that is).

You mention the Adams O2 tank of which only "Calbourne" has been preserved. You might make a feature about this loco and its role on the Isle of Wight. According to Maycock and Silsbury, in "Isle of Wight Railway", the O2 tank was not used until a turntable was installed at Bembridge, Terriers and other locos being the order of the day before that. I did discuss the possibility of a new build Terrier at the K&ESR. It is thought there is opposition to such projects in the heritage rail fraternity because they are not preserving anything. An O2 tank would be a good idea for a new build because of its tractive effort in relation to its weight, which made it ideal for use on the IOW which has height and weight restrictions.

Talk about excess. Consider Swindon’s late pannier tank building extravaganza. I remember the 3MT tanks on the Cambrian. They seemed to do well. There is a BR3MT 2-6-0 new build project but it is a bit quiet at the moment.

With the number of BR Standard Class locos in preservation, it’s surprising that quite a few didn’t make it to the heritage circuit. Some of them are pretty nice, but the large quantity of standard class tanks around can be rather dull in some scenarios.

LOL. I love what you wrote on the back of the postcard.

As ever Chris, you make some interesting remarks one way and another. No matter the type/types of locomotives you are reviewing. Some may not agree, but that goes with the territory, as we all have our own views about this or that locomotive type.

I agree on the clan. Whilst yes it would be nice to see, you can build better pacifics than it, such as a Thompson design, or put the same money into newbuilds/existing engines. I think though the clan is only being built out of the same reason we are getting a saint, Grange and county. Just to complete a set

A good new build would be class 2 ivatt as the tooling to make one would produce spare parts for those still existing.

I would say these were already products of a nostalgia industry. Heroic designs writing a final chapter. From my reading " mistake " designs were normal evolutions of designs. City of Truro was one that worked. Modified Hall also. Churchward Pacific ?

This is a nice video, I love to see a Crab in service. But Chris, do you think the Standards were worth it?

More Replica builds would be great, like more Adams Class O2s T1s T9s 3MTs and even a Drummond Black Motor,

Actually a new BR 3MT Mogul is being built No.77021

So the Clans were the least powerful of BR's Pacifics, but they were lighter on their wheels than a Standard 5? Didn't know that before. As for the Clans...I think I'm with you on that one. I don't know if it could be the next big Mainline engine, what with so many other bigger Pacifics and pretty soon a new Mikado to take that spot, but it could be suitable for a heritage line. They are more powerful than a Hall or a Black Five, yet they could have a bit of a speed advantage over bigger engines. Plus seeing as they're mixed-traffic engines, they would be a bit better at hill climbing compared to a Jubilee. I feel like 72010 could be something along the lines of a more basic Light Pacific. Powerful enough for smaller lines, but also being a bit easier to take care of, and definitely comparable performers if the draughting is sorted out.

Will you be putting your video of the svr on here

A new build is a new build. Who cares what it is, we get MORE steam locos to play with and ride on. Every steam loco in the preservation world has its place, and has a job to do. Even if its just pottering about with a empty demo goods train or giving cabrides on gala days. With the ever ageing steam fleet at the moment, we do need some newer replacements while the oldies get fixed up or retired. I mean I personally would like to see some What If type locos like the Catherdrals, but engineer them better so they work better. Like the Clan, build it to solve the draughting issue and there you have a lighter Britannia to pound up and down the country.

Here are all I know about engines names with standard 1. British rail standard class 9F 2. British rail standard crosti boiler 9F 3. LMS standard class 5

My sister went to school in the 1960's with a girl whose surname was "Kettleborough". Do you think she or her parents may have been involved in this design scheme possibly (equal opportunities etc) ?

Hopefully the three new builds will soon be accomplished. Shame there’ll never be a project for a standard 3 mogul. Preserved standard 4 2-6-0 76077 (finally under restoration) was originally preserved to recreate a 3 mogul

Maaaan I wish there was someone who did this sort of quality work with american locomotives, with similar opinions. Too bad murica scrapped like, all of our steamers. There's really nowhere close to as many comparatively that britain has.

In the state of Tennessee (where I live) we have a steam locomotive in operation that's 109 years old

Bluebell Railway: 78059 has been rescued from Barry without his tender, let’s convert him into a 2-6-2T. 82045 Steam Locomotive Trust: let’s build a new Class 3 tank. Standard Steam Locomotive Company: let’s build the next Clan that would have been built No. 72010 “Hengist” and rectify the problems the class had. Volunteer: can we have a Class 3 mogul too? Wilbert Awdry: NO!

Yeay!!!

The Standard 4 tank engines are in my opinion the best standard design and one of the best engine designs

According to the Wikipedia page 'steam locomotives of the 21st century' there is a new build 3MT 2-6-0 being build

Actually, there is a Class 3 2-6-0 in the works. It's being done by 'The 77021 Locomotive Group'. And yes, I know. 77020 is next in sequence, but for whatever reason, they skipped it.

I really like those 3mt Moguls! There is a project to build one but it is quiet at the moment. For a waste of money it is hard to top the Western Region's obsession with turning out more and more pannier tanks!

What blast pipe the Clan had? Maybe if ti would be replaced with Kylchap blast pipe it would perform better. As well if they intend to build such locomotive, it could be good idea to contact DLM AG which is looking to build standard gauge express steam locomotive. But the funding would be problematic perhaps.

Your comments about The Clans remind me of the PRR T-1 4-4-4-4 project. The T-1 was controversial when it was built, and PRR must have had reasons to scrap 125 nearly new locos while keeping engines 40 years older instead. When the project is finally done, will it be possible to fairly answer the charges laid against the Duplex? What loco engineer today is sufficiently experienced to represent a typical 1945-Era PRR engineman? Who is going to count the hours needed to maintain the poppet valves? Today, most steam runs are one weekend several times a year. PRR wanted its engines running as much as possible .

The Clan class I think is a very interesting engine now I don't know what it was like because I can only go on facts. It is true the Clan didn't have great reputation but when crews grew to know them they were known for being able to pull 14 coaches solo.

Speaking of projects I cant wait for the patriot project to be finished

According to the Hengist project's webpage, a lot of the issues with the Clans came down to never-solved imperfections in drafting and their optimal firing methods being different from what crews were used to or what they were expecting. I am not an engineer myself so I can't testify as to how true this is. However, also according to the Hengist project site, the Clans had remarkably impressive coal consumption figures when fired correctly. Here's a link if anyone's interested in this stuff: www.theclanproject.org/Clan_History.php

Might I ask if you heard of Pennsylvania Railroad T1 trust? I work for Norfolk Southern Railroad doing rolling stock need advice.

This puts forward a long held view - that the classes 3 and 6 were unnecessary in-between sizes. The class 3 tank seems to be a useful size for preserved railways and the class 2 could be a useful addition to the Bluebell fleet. The Clan might find a use on the main line if it was oil-burning with the SLM upgrades.

Is it just me or the LMS 2MT and the BR 2MT is a British version to the DRG Br 64 Class

Nice video

I'm all for the new builds, however misfit they may seem. Given everybody's stuck at home right now, why not spend the rainy day cash on great stuff like this? I'll gladly donate and share this wherever I can.

Um.. Do Indonesian Steamies review ?

I herd someone say, who works on a steam locomotive, that if the locomotive is well built, well maintained, and operated that they can last virtually forever. In you opinion is this true? Or do you have a video already that answers this question.

I've never really understood the appeal of making replicas of late-model engines, when there are so many more, much, much interesting types from the pre-grouping days - which presumably would also be easier to construct.

Is that a UFO/UAP checking things out at 5:33?!.

HMM, ENLIGHTENING

0:40 ...But there's Room for 1,000. Any Volunteers? (Sorry, I just had to make that reference.) In all seriousness though, this is a great retrospective on some of the scrapped members of the BR Standard Range Family. Keep up the great work Chris! I look forward to seeing more of these in the future!

You could say the 9Fs were non-standard. I mean, they were 10 coupled, and had their own size of wheels. And don't even get me started on the crostis...

The Clan reminds me of the PRR T1, since the only plausible home is the Strasburg, although the sight of it running am Acela service to time would be fun to see

Personally, I'm all for variety - winning and loser designs are all appreciated

American here, do any of these trusts have a PayPal link or something? I'd love to drop a few dollars (or _pounds_ I guess), but I don't think it makes any sense to send a cheque across the Atlantic Ocean in 2021.

Class 2 and Class 3 tanks? - YES! Build a "batch" Not everyone is an SVR / NYMR/ GC et al...Ideal and economical (sic) sized engines for small railways -and without non-prototypical tender-first running either ! Give the Austerity tanks a rest for a while ! (They're too hungry anyway) And while you're at it, knock out a few new 14xx's ....

Chris: Sub-Standard types 71000: Am I a joke to you?

Noice.

Well at least, it looks funny at 6:03 minutes :-)

Nothing ugly about the the Fargo’s!

The ugly Ivatt Mogul. When compared to the Bulleid Q1s, which is uglier?

This is the closest i've ever been to a video

There’s a class 3 being built

i know this is of the topic but can 5700 do autotrains?

I heard that some heritage railway or the nrm owns quite a few parts which used to belong to 62220 coronation, why not do a new build/restoration of the Pacific?

New E2 ?

The Class 3 Tender Locos look like Canadian Loco's from the 20's and 30's. Change the couplers and add a headlight.

Everyone) LETS BUILD NEW STEAM!!! *the crap ton of rotting equipment at every museum looks over* American, British, Canadian “preserved”) ARE WE A JOKE TO YOU!?!?

Ivatt 4mt: I'm not ugly :'(

New Is New P2

Not a big fan of reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal.

Thanks for producing an almost normal railway video without the caricatures or your views on Donald Trump. If you stick to what people are interested in - railways - without the baggage you can do good work. BR standards have long been my favourite steam locos.

Covid 19 is SCP 340.

Because the Britannia is a class seven what is the cartons were class six they were weaker they were not meant to Hall Britannia levels of trains and that’s what the audit with them made them whole class seven work instead of the typical class six

If the Clan's get up and Yes I'm an Fan Scotland and Secondary Routes runs are Need is BUT Presentation Lines are where if NOT Fitted Width Sanding Gear on the Tender where it get Proberns. the Tanks Projects are Better way of finding work. BUT And Big BUT what Happen when BR Standards Which 60 years old (Evening star) Puls We are going to have proberns that we have Victorian Stuff NOW.Isle of Wight had to get 2 Ivatt Tanks -Class 2 and Rebuild them Fitted the loading Gauge. We are at the Point Before Covid-19 that Loco's are going to Static Due there age.