You make some excellent points.

***** Thank you my friend.

+Autry Welch Well said. It's sometimes tough to respond in kindness to one that is so aggressively attacking, but you're right. Had we not been received with grace when we too were opponents of God, we might not have chosen to come to Him.All things considered, when I watch these Cliffe videos, for the most part, he responds with patience and grace when confronted by someone that seeks to attack him or the gospel.

Dookers Totally agree on all points friend. Very insightful and yes I agree, it is hard sometimes. Yes, I have spoken to Cliffe personally and he is the real deal. Just a patient, thoughtful person and truly someone to look up to in Christ.

Amen

I never thought of it that way. Thank you for sharing a different POV

I used to believe in nothing and nothing made everything 😂

And I pray that young man's heart was softened and he found he way to start a relationship with Jesus.

+Craig Macdonald Glory to God for giving/sending people like him w/ titanium level tolerance.

+Seth E You sure?

+Rod Gabac before 1800, the world population was never over 1 billion. statistically it doesn't take much to be sure that many people died violent deaths in the 1900's (7 Billion) rather than the 300's (500 million)

The believer in atheist Dogma has no interest in honest dialogue or in finding out the actual truth: His only intention is to harm others by attempting to chip away at our faith by using lies and logical fallacies.

Suddenly I remember the Pharisees... The self righteous people

Would you have done that?

+Jasper Stone Would you have done that?

hahahhaah

Mattias would you have done that ?

So what your saying is you have no free will then? You can't choose to reject?

Karl Dimario I 100% agree, we are saved through Jesus Christ. I also agree we are chosen by God first (I wouldn't even debate that). But I disagree that you can't reject. But why would someone want to reject the gift of life and love from God? Maybe I should've used the word accept instead of choose. Or perhaps you can explain why, by not having a choice either accept or reject God, is actual freewill?

Karl Dimario Also I do feel sad for this guy arguing rejecting God. As an extra note, surely if there is no free will to accept/reject Jesus/God, then why do we need to spread the good news? Without free will, life is already determined from birth. God chooses, so why are we commanded by Jesus to go and make disciples of nations (Matthew 28:18-20), it would be a pointless process.

I agree God does the saving not man. But God is the same today as he was yesterday, today and tomorrow (Malachi 3:6). God created and accepted all, but not everyone accepts God. Mark 4:11 is talking about, those God has elected but don't reject him, can see and perceive, hear and understand his parables. Those that are elected but reject God won't understand his parables (real message). Isn't grace given to all who ask for it? (Romans 10:9) What's the need of that for an elected person. Jesus wants all to be saved 1 Timothy 2:4. But not everyone wants to be saved. Do do you really think Jesus in Mark 4:11-12 doesn't want everyone to hear his parables and then turn to him for forgiveness? However, we are respectfully given freewill to accept/reject him, either way God will honour our decision. Nice chatting but would love to hear more of your thoughts.

People dont live without god is the secound death they die god only hath immortality

quintissential village atheist.

Are you referring to me? if so explain what you mean by the sarcasm and anti-theist. Or is this guy in the video known as the Google guy. Personally, I am glad this guy keeps turning up to Cliff's video, in hope, he will get saved. Perhaps in big crowds, he doesn't want to admit his views are floored, but in time maybe he comes to realise his contradictions and accepts Jesus into his life. Keep up the good work Cliff.

Goog Le Yeah you're right. You can see how he tries to catch himself when his logic is off. Anyway the gospel isn't just words alone, it has power behind them. And perhaps with time the gospel will break through his hardened heart and he'll come to realize the truth.

Lance Cryor amen

i would laugh so hard if he became a follower of Yeshua and started preaching about how dumb atheist are for believing as he once did lol

He almost reverted back to like a 6 year old child! With his way he was talking to Cliffe! It was obvious to everybody there, that he was really being over emotional! And if he truly didn't believe that Jesus Christ & God are real, why he get so angry about Heaven and Hell? He doesn't believe in it, right? So why get mad? He could of just walked away, but he stayed to continue arguing against something that he believes is false anyways... *MAKES ZERO SENSE!!*

Excellently said…I totally agree because I was him about 3.5 years ago

You took one piece of evidence that Cliffe gives for historical reliability and acted as if that were the only piece of evidence. The point is not "This place is real, so the story is true." The point is "This place is real, so they're not making up locations." If the place in which the story takes place is fictitious, then the story is false. The Gospels take place in places that factually exist, now we can move on to the next test. That's all he's saying.

Not all kids are like this guy with the sunglasses..but the young atheist in question is a product of the academic system, where the majority of faculty members on campus are atheist.

Who was Jesus talking to when he said that?

If you go back, Cliffe doesn’t say Buddhism is a tremendous religion, he says Buddhism is an outstanding religion and that he has tremendous respect for Buddha because Buddha tried to solve the problem of suffering. The definition of outstanding is “exceptionally good.” But you have to consider the context in which Cliffe is talking. He’s explaining how each major world religion is at odds with Christ’s teachings at their core. He’s basically saying that superficially, Buddhism is exceptionally good in the sense that Buddha wanted to solve the problem of suffering. I mean, ending suffering sounds like a pretty noble endeavor. Buddha concluded that desire causes suffering, therefore if you cut off your desires you’ll end suffering. An end to suffering? Sign me up. But then Cliffe goes on to clarify that Buddha’s conclusion goes against what Christ taught. Christ taught that we SHOULD desire: desire to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and mind, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. We should know the difference between good desires and bad ones.

So couple of things. 1) where do you get this belief that "I believe when i die it will be just like sleeping, but i will sleep forever", why do you believe it 2) Yes whether you like it or not you can not live without God's common grace. At the end of time, you will have the choice to live separate from God and as Jesus puts it ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.' IT would be like me saying I never want to live on land anymore and then blaming the ocean for not being compatible with my lungs 3) Outside of the New Testament... is 27 books with over 5000 manuscripts better than any other document in history during that time. See all 27 books existed outside the New Testament, compiling them into a book does not invalidate them. Just like if I take a bunch of scientific studies on the same subject and republish it in a scientific journal doesn't invalidate the studies themselves. Hope that helps.

TheMbova Hi Mbova, thanks for the reply. 1. You ask where do i get this belief from that when I die it will be similar to being asleep. To the best of my knowledge, we have no credible evidence that we live on in any way after death, all the evidence shows that once the heartbeat and brain activity ceases, that's the end of our lives, that's why i believe it will be similar to being asleep. I have no reason to believe otherwise Yes, there are many claims of an afterlife, but no evidence to speak of. I have absolutely no fear of death itself, before I was born you could say I was in exactly the same position of non existence, and it didn't bother me in the slightest. 2. You say , whether or not i like it, you cannot live without Gods common grace. How do you know this, which God in particular are you talking about? The Hindu God? The Islamic God? The Christian God?, depending on where you were born there are many different Gods. What makes your God the right one? Why wouldn't the real one make himself known to everyman and woman across the globe so that it was incontrovertable and beyond question. Are you saying that unless i accept the Christian God that I will be condemned to Hell? As I said, that's like the mafia boss giving me an offer I can't refuse. Would you ever construct a torture chamber in your cellar for your children, and put them there for eternity if they ever disobeyed you? How is that scenario different from what God is offering? You may say that God is offering eternal love, but because I simply lack evidence of God, I reject the offer, so what happens to me according to your faith? I sometimes wonder if Christians have really considered the real concept of *eternity* 3. The 5000 manuscripts for me isn't proof of God. It's proof that the church had a massive stranglehold on writing manuscripts. There was a time when practically everyone assumed the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth, we know this now to be wildly wrong. Science adjusts it view on what is observed, faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved. The more we learn about our place in our galaxy and just how tiny we are in relation to the entire universe fills me with wonder and awe. There are billions of other galaxies out there, don't you find that amazing. To me, it's far more wonderous than any writings in old scriptures. You can't compare the two.

Wrong -- we are never without consciousness. Your "hell" simply means separation from God -- God won't force you or anyone else into his presence forever. You ARE allowed to refuse God's gifts, but God will never "beat you up:" You promote a very bizarre set of lies about God, my friend. LOL Fortunately, you have no evidence for your lies, so nobody will ever believe you. You are wrong about the evidences for Jesus of Nazareth. In fact, the four Gospels comprise the single most well-documented work from ancient times, known to man. You need to read a book some time.

***** Hi 1God, thanks for your comments, much appreciated. I would say though, using the bible as evidence for Jesus is problematical for most atheists. It's that very book which has played a major part in me doubting his existence in the first place. Are there any non Christian sources from around that time which back up the claims of Jesus's existence? I'm not claiming by the way that he absolutely *did not* exist, a preacher of that name may well have existed, but I reject all of the miracle claims in the bible, and that Jesus was the son of God.

bonnie43uk There is no such thing as an "atheist:" All human beings know for certain that God's unique qualities and activities are factual, and this includes you. Your question about non-Christian sources for Jesus' factual existence reveals at least two types of deep ignorance on your part: 1. The historically factual life of Jesus is *THE* single most well-documented in the history of the ancient world. 2. Sources can neither be Christian nor non-Christian. People are Christians, and people may or may not have access to valid sources, no matter what religion they happen to practice.

Sometimes it's good to challenge your own beliefs, ask questions rather than just accept what you've been told or read in a book.

bonnie43uk that's very true. though in this case, I know for certain that the Lord never upheld the notion or idea of slavery. The people of today's world don't know how to die for things. I will die for my Lord, my King: Jesus Christ the Eternal Judge of the Quick and Dead.

ChristianSoldier How do you determine whether the Lord your King Jesus Christ is simply a voice in your head?. Does he speak to you?, Is his voice different from your own conscience? How can you tell the difference? Lets say the Lord wanted to test your allegiance and faith ( as he did with Abraham in Genesis 22) If he told you to kill your own son, would you do it?. I know this is unlikely, I am just saying what would you do in that scenario?. I've spoken to quite a few Christians who've said yes, given that command, they would slaughter their own child. My point is, how can you tell the difference between your own conscience or a voice in your head, and that of the voice of the Lord?. If you tell me it's unlikely anyone would do that, yes, but it does happen.A woman a few weeks ago killed her 2 kids recently because she said God told her to.

I don't need your petty example, in fact I never read it. Can you not hear your own thoughts in your own head? In like manner, the Lord himself sends you divine instruction. The problem is, everyone has an ego. The Lord and Satan send you thoughts... yes 3 years ago I would have thought I was crazy. Don't act on Satan and his minions, telling you to eat more, drink more smoke more thieve more gossip more judge more. Only God can judge, and that day is coming quickly. I would die in the name of my Lord for he is

ChristianSoldier So basically, you've ignored my question, which was based on a bible verse (Genesis 22), and instead, talked about Satan, who I don't believe in. You said you never read my "petty example", how do you know if it's petty if you didn't read it? I'm hazarding a guess you've not read the very book in which you claim divine instruction. What is God divinely instructing you to do exactly?.. and as I said, how can you separate Gods instruction from you're own conscience? (which was the core of my question). I don't eat more, I don't drink alcohol, i don't smoke, I don't steal and I don't gossip as you seemed to infer. You keep talking about dying in the name of the Lord, who is asking you to give up your life?, wouldn't you be better served helping your fellow man. Perhaps take a leaf from the New testament and help feed the poor,or give away all your possesions as Jesus instructed in order to reach heaven.

Cliffe often calls ideas and statements intellectually dishonest. He may even say someone is being intellectually dishonest. I have not heard Cliffe say that anyone is intellectually dishonest and he certainly hasn't called anyone a liar, that I've heard. What does Cliffe say about the Gospels and Josephus that is dishonest?

Atleast he doesn't act like a snotty man-child.

***** I didn't say anything about results (or lack thereof). When you pray, do you expect your god to change whatever outcome he already decided? And, again, using the term "relationship" is flawed.

Hyder Noori How so? How is using the term relationship flawed?

Dawson Gilson No known type of relationship known to us humans resembles what he describe as a relationship...if it does, cite an example.

Hyder Noori The dictionary definition of Relationship is, and I quote: "the way in which two or more concepts, objects, or people are connected, or the state of being connected."

Dawson Gilson Forgive me for getting back to you late, I was away, and without my laptop