I was inches and a split second away from being killed by Slack Action. While making repairs on an outbound train, the Carman on the head end dropped the blue flag without notifying anyone. The end of the cars went from point zero to four feet away from me in the blink of an eye.

Very cool what you posted here as a comment. Thanks to both you and Adam for educating us on this rather strange car carrier. I was not aware it ever existed, albeit I did see a promotional film from GM about regular covered car carriers from the 70s when they introduced them..

Thank you so much for sharing your insight! GM should have talked to folks like you prior to implementing this plan

Talking to railroad employees (Union) would be like automotive management talking to assembly line workers (Union) Management & Union, NEVER shall the two meet!

Thank you for this interesting contribution 👍

In actuality, it was just a handful of minor adjustments that were required.

The railroads saved money, not GM. It was Southern Pacific's idea, not GMs.

@@Greatdome99 If true thats funny (and not doubting you). Its just that everyone is slamming GM over it and will probably be remembered as GMs doing.

@@Greatdome99Surely the railroad passed on some of the savings to GM? Otherwise, why would GM bother?

​@@nkt1correct - it was a joint project.

@@HelicopterDad-xk5sxyah but most new cars start and run…A Vega…not so much. This was one of the cars that drove buyers to Japanese cars, they didn’t want to carry tools in their trunk to get home.

My older brother bought a 1971 Vega. He loved it but after two years and about 40,000 miles the engine was shot. One of my classmates bought a 1974 Vega. It wasn’t much better.

Why did they design that engine when gm Europe had a a choice of different engines of similar capacity that weren’t quite as s**t?

@@scottyg7284 because it was Ed Cole's baby . He also brought us the Corvair . Need I say more ?

@@gregz6418 I had many and worked on many more and wouldn't say any were undependable. But that engine, what were they thinking! If you sleeved the block it wasn't a bad car, till the rust took over. My first one all the local gas stations knew me as $10 and 2 quarts.

I agree, they still look better than 99% of new cars today too

I watched a video some time ago. The guy who worked for Chevrolet was saying the metal they used was showing signs of rust before the panels were ever stamped. The are nice looking cars. Much better than anything comparable today.

Yeah, my first car was a 72 orange gt with black stripes. Fill up with oil and check the gas😂😂😂

GM are like the crazy self harming uncle. So capable yet a total loss

A friend bought one with a Cosworth engine. It ran pretty good.

Better is the key word here. The Vega did have a number of innovations that if they had been tested and developed adequately would have worked well. The over head cam engine is one. GM US hadn't don e this before. The timing chain was all new designed. The aluminum engine block had been used before in GM cars, but never with the pistons riding against an aluminum sleeve. It worked, but lubricants of the time didn't provide enough protection to those side walls. The real down fall of that engine was its total intolerance to over heating. The typical American driver is casual at best about keeping fluids topped up. The target audience for this car was at the extreme end of that group. Let the engine over heat just once and you had warpage of the head to block bad enough to blow the head gasket. That usually meant the end of that engine. The rust issue with the car, apart from what was attributable across the entire GM line up because of using poor alloys could have been remedied by adding two drain holes in the fire wall and enlarging the drain holes farther down the same area. The Vega was always a great looking car, mimicking that same era Camaro in styling. It sure was a lost opportunity for GM.

GM did the OHC engine and was developed by DeLorean for Pontiac in the 60s. Was a great engine but was not what GM management wanted and was discontinued. A 4 cyl version of Pontiac's OHC 6 would have worked great in the Vega.

@@charlesf4428 A four cylinder version of the OHC Pontiac engine might have worked in the Vega, but I believe the Pontiac engine was quite a bit taller than the Vega engine and may have required it to be slanted one way or the other much as Pontiac had done with the 1/2 V8 four cylinder engine in the original Tempest model in the early 60's.

@@cdjhyoung In a typical piece of GM stupidity, they didn’t put in an expansion tank

@@cdjhyoung Generally correct in most details. But the cylinder wall was etched eutectic aluminum, making the cylinder wall among the hardest substances known to man, silicon. Also, the heat intolerance caused the cylinder to warp, thereby rubbing the wall against the piston and scoring the surface. Simple coolant overflow bottle in 1973 solved most of the problems. Today's aluminum engines use this technology, so it was cutting edge in the Vega. Rust had a number of causes, as you said problematic among all makes and models for the reasons you stated. One major little flaw was the lack of wheel well liners in the 71-72 model years. Solved for a couple of bucks. I have a 75 Cosworth and a 77 GT and both are rust-free. The head gasket was paper for the first 6 months (1971), after which Chev went to a steel gasket and solved the problem of blown gasket. The 75 Cosworth was the first production electronic fuel injection, tuned port. Cosworth was also the first dual overhead cam, 4 valves per cylinder, since the 1939 Cord. DOHC is now a feature of high end cars. I really wish the 5-speed manual had been part of the options from the start. Optional was 5-speed manual + posi-traction on the 76-77 models. Traction bar and beefed-up suspension standard on GT models. Durabuilt (76-77) engines had hydraulic lifters. 71-72 GT's had 2-stage Rochester carbs. Post 72-GT's and all 77's had dual stage 2 bbl Holley carbs. Anyone who has a 77 survivor has one sweet vintage car, most particularly the GT's (no rust, no maintenance, just gas, tires, and oil, and the occasional detailing). All Vegas stop faster than a Corvette, and have the elusive neutral steering that makes them demons on mountain roads. A car ahead of its time, and designed to be replaced by the Monza after 1978. A shame really, because it was better in a majority of respects than the Monza by 1977. 1978 Monza S wagons are Vegas in all reality, only the front clip and name plate was changed. Vega was not forced out of the market, just designed to be phased out. They should bring it back with modern technology. It would be one helluva car, but the price would probably match every other mid-range car today.

Ed Cole was President before the Vega, he was responsible for a lot of innovations at GM like the rear engine Corvair, aluminum Buick V8, Tempest with 4 wheel independent suspension and 4 cylinder engine made of half a V8. Even the front drive Toronado and the original Chev 283 V8. Most of his ideas failed to stand the test of time but a few were engineering marvels.

​@@mrdanforth3744Chevrolet produced the 265 V8 before the 283.

@@mrdanforth3744 That's what I thought, but I believe Adam said Cole became president after the Vega. I'll listen again. Cole's greatest contribution was the Chevy small block , when he was in engineering.

@@tombrown1898 he did say that ,but he was mistaken .

It’s called “failing up” and is extremely common in the business world. I’m not sure Ed was guilty of this, but many others have been.

Like the EV1 Impact, the Space Frame.....

Corvair, the Olds Jetfire, the 1st generation tempest...

GM has had some of the worst ideas in the history of the automotive world.

Government Motors

GM response to criticisms of the Vega.. "At least it's not a Pinto !"... "Have you SEEN a Pinto ??"

Sadly, the Vega and the Pinto were the poster children for "It's really neat that we got to the moon first, but ...."

Exactly, Was a GM fan since 80’s But will stay with Honda They don’t rot out in 4 years

I'm guessing NASA never asked GM : Hey can you guys build us a rocket ??? @@johnstuartsmith

Even big companies need tax writeoffs.....

I would love a Monza Mirage but they are so rare

When I moved to the US in june 1972 my uncle brought a brand new Vega for $3800.00 I love the car. He ended up took it with him oversea. The US car during those day were nice and attractive to drive untl our jack asse CEO sold USA to CCP.

It seems like it would've made more sense to just let the dealer fill the windshield washer reservoir. Maybe even use a temporary battery to load the cars, and then let the dealer install the permanent battery

@@johneckert1365 The car needed an installed battery to get from the rail head to the destination. Few dealers have rail heads.

Saved acid dipping the hood and fenders for race ready modifications.....

So draining the swamp to find gators ...all these car modifications to the car just to accommodate vertical shipping they could have tarped all cars and just load them normally ......way too much cost and work just to ship cars vertically.......

That wasn't the root of the rust problem. The lack of primer under the external paint and no coating at all on hidden surfaces was the problem. That included the floor pan, which would rust completely out in a few years. Even if undercoating were applied on the outside you couldn't do anything about the uncoated steel under the carpet.

@@1djbecker Yep. The car that destroyed the 'body by fisher' mark of quality. They were so proud of their elpo electrostatic coating that they thought it was the cure-all to rust problems. Such a sad end to decades of Fisher body excellence.

Many years ago I read, I believe in "Petersons Book Of Vega", that the car was intended to somewhat look like the little brother to the Camaro.

​@@HelicopterDad-xk5sxI used a 2.3 out of either a Vega or Monza to power a log splitter about 30 years ago.

@@johneckert1365it probably burned enough oil to saturate the split wood with oil residue and made built in starting fluid.

A four year old car with no engine? Holy crap

@@catsaregovernmentspies They drank oil thats for sure! All the local gas stations knew me as $10 and 2 quarts.

@@HelicopterDad-xk5sx I went the buick 215 route, it was fun.

Wasn't that the point of the monza

​@@eaglewiMonzas were pretty quick when they came with that 262 V8. They should've done that right from the start with the Vega.

@@johneckert1365 That would have missed the entire point of Vega. The POINT was to be an economy car, not a thirsty fire breathing V8. Vega was supposed to be able to take on the Japanese small cars as well as the venerable VW Beetle.

@@eaglewi Too bad the Monza`s were so UGLY !!!

I actually built a 72 Vega drag car with a 350 and that very paint scheme (orange w/white strip) not knowing it was a factory option till now. That being said my wife loved that car over all the other cars I’ve built

Very few had turbo 350s and the ones that did it was an odd air cooled transmission. None of the vega automatics would bolt up to a small block chevy, had a different shape and bolt pattern.

​@@edmundanderson657he stated " because you could use a 350 " I'm assuming he seemed out auto cars for the correct floor boot

@@diviningrod2671 Can't speak for or remember the 71-72s but 73 and up had the same tunnel and hole in the floor for auto and stick. Swapped out a few from auto to stick. 71 and 72 had an opal trans while 73 and up had a Saginaw for 4sps.

I remember them too. I also remember seeing punks throw rocks at the new cars. I was too young to do anything about it. I will never understand why someone would screw over another person without any reason whatsoever? These rock throwing punks were too young to have yet been screwed over by Chevrolet. Then came the enclosed car carriers. Not nearly as much fun to see. Didn't know what they were hauling.

@@jstravelers4094. There has never been a shortage of young assholes in the history of mankind. My school days were full of them and they will never go away.

Funny you say that. It’s been my opinion for decades that GM has a habit of rushing the release of a product just before it ms ready and letting the customer do the final testing. Then it’s nonstop refinement, updates, bad publicity, redesigns, until it’s basically perfected. At which point the product is discontinued, only to be replaced by something else that’s not quite ready for the buying public. The Vega is a perfect example. A stylish car that sold well, only to be plagued with the “bean counter” syndrome. They wanted to build a cheap economic car, but made it with lousy quality steel, the car was basically made of compressed rust. The Cadillac 4100 engine, the Oldsmobile 350 diesel, the 440T4 transmission, the list goes on

You guys ever heard of Ford and Chrysler???

@@mattrodgers4878 All because the gubmint got involved in car making. Just look at the 1960's gm cars.....

@will7its oh believe me, I’m not leaving Ford and Chrysler out of the mix. I just think GM wrote the book on it.

Personally, I feel the changes to the car for vertical shipping are rather minor, but the change in the rail system, along with the added room needed to load and training in that area were staggering, despite moving 35% more vehicles per train car. One thing that was certain.... if the car didn't leak in shipping, at least all the fluids were staying inside, and your garage floor was ok for awhile!

so you traded a rusty body for a rusty frame

You could follow that up with months of videos featuring the innumerable disastrous decisions made by GM during the '80s.

I never understood the iron head choice. Japanese and European manufacturers were already having success with aluminum heads, why couldn't GM...... Detroit Diesel made some aluminum blocked engines too, but they also had iron heads. I actually have 2 aluminum 3-53 Detroit Diesels in Vietnam War era vehicles called Gama Goats

@@johneckert1365 I'm guessing the 3-53 had cylinder liners like the other Detroit Diesel engines? The Vega engine if I remember doesn't have sleeves, just extra silicon to supposedly make the cylinder walls more durable! A neighbor used to have a 65 GMC pickup he put a 3-53 in, that truck sounded awesome!

@@joesmithjoesmith4284 Yes, the aluminum 53 series has cast iron wet sleeves just like the iron block ones do. The later 2.3 was improved and called the "duratech" or something like that. They were much better than the early 2.3

​@@johneckert1365Iron Duke.

@@garyszewc3339 Right, and that was larger @ 2.5L. That was the last year,... too late.

Welcome to money laundering and tax write offs......

That one model (actually at least two models for different brands, and potentially more models with compatible dimensions and designs) was intended to be the company's big volume model line.

@@brianb-p6586 And, if the thing had worked well, they'd have used the same cars to ship their next new model, and the next one.

same here. 1948-1985. 3 generations. My 74 Vega GT wagon engine went at 12,000 miles. lol

News Flash every Car starts Rusting the day it leaves the Assembly line.

not really. cars are galvanized now. since 30 years in Europe.

Chevy trucks and Vans would rust out in weeks also...Square Body trucks kids were rust buckets!

@@skataskatata9236they are not galvanised.

Imperial or Cadillac or Lincoln or Buick Electra 225 Limited wouldn't have fit that way.

@edwardpate6128 I’ve always thought the same thing. Lightweight, compact, good power, and well developed. I wonder if GM’s thinking since this was their answer to VW, Datsun, Toyota, and others, might have been that offering a V8 would be too far removed from the focus on fuel savings.

I had installed a few 215 Buick engines in vegas. They were a fun car.

The 225 Buick would've been awesome too, small dimensional size, good power, efficient in a car the size of a Vega, that would've been a good fit

I agree that the 215 would have been a natural for this car, but GM had different visions for this car. It definitely wanted to go head to head with upper scale European small cars. Any overhead valve engine wouldn't have fit that imagine building exercise. The 215 did share some of the over heating issue that plague the Vega engine, but not as badly. It might also been viewed as too strong a competitor to the Camaro. Same styling in a smaller, lighter package with potentially the same performance.

@@cdjhyoung The vega had cooling issues that was fix at the factory by cutting a cooling passage between the cylinders. The 215s, I've worked on them built them and raced them never saw any over heat and some were hardly maintained at all. Only problems I came across were cross threaded sparkplug holes but I don't know who did that, mechanics or DIYers.

They also made up specially modified semi truck enclosed trailers that were used to transport car bodies (Regal, Cutlass, Monte Carlo, El Camino, Grand Prix) from where they were assembled in Flint, Mi to the final assembly plant about 40 miles away in Pontiac, Mi. Lots of these trucks did laps up and down I-75 on a daily basis.

The containers in the background are the related Stac-a-Pac. They also didn't last long.

My grandfather was a train engineer for Southern Pacific for 30 years. My other grandfather work for them for 45 years and retired as the yard manager.

Got me thinking. I suppose this subject is covered over in trains forums as well with a little different twists. This shipping system probably led into what we see now with the enclosed car Haulers.

Just buy a V8 Monza. I had a 78 and an 80. All you needed to do was swap out the 2.29 rear end ratio and it was fast

@@ItsReallyJackBlack at the time I was building my car you really could not find a v8-powered Monza and nowadays to find one would be practically impossible

@@willbar1961 I get that. I fooled with them in the mid to late 80s. They were in junkyards at the time if you looked. Unfortunately those A bodied didn't last long and were quick to get crushed. My 80 spider probably paid for itself in earnings from racing suckers. It was a street legal 2100 lb dry that looked almost stock

@@ItsReallyJackBlack i actually pulled parts from a V8 Monza Mirage (cool body kit) and bought the oil pan from a local Chevy dealer along with factory V8 motor mount pieces. Those were the days, easy to build and work on, fairly cheap too

@@willbar1961 The 196/ 231 v6 Monza actually were identical to the Small block ones. The only true unique V8 parts were the driver side exhaust manifold. But you could use an early truck log style and clear the steering. The few California 350 cars did have bigger radiators, but that was because of smog equipment. Plug changes were a pain. A 4 speed swap was a bolt in with V6 parts but the clutch wouldn't last very long.

Some of the Stac-Pacs are visible at 7:10 in this video.

The 3.8 Buick V6 was a pile of shit in the 70's and early 80's. By the time it went through it's changes and was reintroduced as the 3800, Vegas and Monzas were long gone........

V-6? in a Vega??? First time I've heard that one.

@@UberLummox They did put that junk early 3.8 Buick V-6 in some Monzas, which was very similar to a Vega

Just another failed venture, along with the Corvair and Fiero

@@georgeszilva1223 There was nothing at all inherently wrong with Fiero OR Corvair.

Kinda like the Pontiac Fiero. A fuel line made of rubber running across the top the heat producing engine = dry rot engine fires. Lawsuits then Huge recall to Retrofit w/ 100% metal fuel line

My mom used to say, of my dad, "He's book smart, and life dumb."

It was the railroad's idea not GM. The RRs saved money by transporting more autos on a given autorack.

My first new car was a ‘74 Toyota Celica. Love driving it, but it rusted through in four years. I wish I still had it, it was a cool little car to drive! 1968 CC.

South Germany? What?

​@@fastinradfordable Yeah, southern part of Germany, never heard of it kid?

@@fastinradfordable Its part of the same country as North Germany. We call the whole thing "Deutschland". We tend to use the other two cardinal directions more often, has historical reasons. That however is a story for another day.

My summer job in the late ‘60’s was a “Driving Miss Daisy” scenario, looking after a rich old lady at her summer home while her husband worked in the city. Used to drive a Bonny 2 hrs. to take her to the airport to pick up the Mr. 17 years old and driving a massive luxury car. Loved it!

Very cool. Were the Opel cars you saw made in Germany ? I have a 2018 Buick Regal TourX Wagon with All Wheel drive, made by Opel of Germany, GM division. It was a somewhat rare model here, imported & sold by Buick for 2018 - 2020. I've only seen 3 of them, including mine: It's a crying shame GM didn't even advertise this amazing model. GM has a funny way of self sabotaging promising designs. I found your comment about Opel cars ironic in relation to this Vega video - never thought I'd own an Opel.

I'm sure the were European manufactured.@@psalm2forliberty577

I owned an Opel GT while stationed in Germany...The Opel GT was the little Corvette like the Vega was the little Camareo

The rust problem was due to the dipping process not filling all boxed in areas in the unibody.

@@davidyoung8521 Nah, recycled metal was used around then.

I wonder why they didn't use this technique for the soon to come X and J body cars 🤷‍♂️

I'm sure it cost them but they got 7 years for the vegas, and Pontiac Astra (not sure of the years of that. Have seen many articles on this but never any mention if the monzas were shipped this way too. It was basically the same car.

They weren't as expensive as they look, because they were containers mounted on flat railcars (so the cars themselves were standards). The alternative wasn't free - cars are moved in special railcars anyway.

@@brianb-p6586 But those specialty cars are standardized. Even if you buy them yourself instead of renting capacity, it is cheaper than this design. And you do not have to build a whole new rail yard to load and unload them (because these take a huge amount of space to load).

I got you fam. Go out and stick your head under any vehicle that is convenient for you. Look up at the frame structure and you will see oval diagonal cut outs in it. Those slots are the integrated shipping tie down system. I think every major manufacturer uses this system for moving the vehicles through the assembly plant and in shipping those points are used to secure the load as well. Some dealers put rubber plugs in them in the northern regions to help prevent salt and road slush from getting up there and rusting out. I hope that helps explain the method to you. With the Vega I would imagine they had a more robust tie down pad since the wheels and suspension are not assisting with taking a majority of the load off the straps but maybe ,maybe not

I heard they were hung on hooks.

Velcro

@@SKYNET9erreally? My assumption was duct tape.

@@danieldaniels7571 Giant magnets. 😀

Glad you enjoyed it

It was styled to look like a baby Camaro

Well vandalism was probably a lot of it, then how many can we get in. Even today, every train that goes by is covered with graffiti. Even the autocars are covered. I've never been close enough to one but they look perforated/ventilated, makes me wonder how much damage to new cars

@@edmundanderson657probably some money laundering scheme or something.

You raise some great points.. Another example of a half baked idea from GM.

Never mind about the size-Cavalier was the same height.

​@jamesengland7461 I'm still wondering why they didn't use this method on the X or J body cars a decade later 🤷‍♂️ Were Monzas shipped this way as well?

Not flattering of humans a whole new way of shipping needed to be invented to solve a problem that shouldn't have existed.

I can't imagine that the worker shown in that photo under the half-closed door would get OSHA's stamp of approval.

I asked the same question 🤔

If the cars were dry, you would not be able to drive them on or off of the railcar or final destination transport truck.

@@danielulz1640 Yeah the more I thought about it I got to the same conclusion. 👍

it is called innovation ...you never know until you try it..

also assembled in southern California for the 75 model

Amtrak Superliner cars can't be used in the NE due to the electric trolley wiring, not bridges.