Ken Hackathorn analyzes Red Dot Sights on handguns and gives the pros and cons

Ken Hackathorn analyzes Red Dot Sights on handguns and gives the pros and cons - Masterclass EP 31

Рет қаралды 460,922

Күн бұрын

Ken Hackathorn takes a detailed look at the newest trend - the mounted red dot sight on self-defense handguns. He owns quite a few and has fired thousands of rounds with them. He is ready to give his evaluation with the pros and cons behind the red dot.
Ken references this video "Gun Trends" • Bill Wilson and Ken Ha...
Website: www.wilsoncombat.com/
Get our newsletter: eepurl.com/dAZw8b
Facebook: / wilsoncombat
Instagram: / wilsoncombat
Subscribe: kzfaq.info_...
KZfaq Community: / gowilsoncombat
ABOUT KEN HACKATHORN Ken Hackathorn has served as a US Army Special Forces Small Arms Instructor, Gunsite Instructor, and NRA Police Firearms Instructor. He is currently an FBI Certified Firearms Instructor, and an SRT member and Special Response Team trainer. Ken has trained US Military Special Operations forces, Marine FAST and SOTG units and is a contract small arms trainer to FBI SWAT and HRT. Ken has provided training to Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies and been active in small arms training for the past 25 years. He has written firearms related material for Guns & Ammo, Combat Handguns, Soldier Of Fortune, and currently American Handgunner and contributed to at least six other gun/shooting journals. Ken was also a founding member of IPSC and IDPA.
#RedDot #WilsonCombat #KenHackathorn
0:00 - The Red Dot Sight Trend
1:55 - Ken's Red Dot Pistols
3:45 - Pros for New Shooters
5:20 - The One Percenters
6:55 - 0-10 Yards
7:30 - The Expense
8:50 - Need to Practice
10:35 - Durability
12:10 - Enclosed Emitters
13:35 - Cool Kid Trend
15:45 - More Maintenance
16:55 - The Trend of the Future?
20:15 - Possibilities vs Probabilities
22:05 - Is it the Future?

Пікірлер: 4 200

@gowilsoncombat Жыл бұрын

It seems everyone has an opinion about this topic. We want to hear your thoughts too! Please leave a comment and join in the conversation!

@PerfectTangent Жыл бұрын

Don't forget the standard practice of 'pinning' your comment so it appears at the top and everyone can see it.

@billybushmaster Жыл бұрын

The only thing about a Red Dot in my opinion is when it rains or like you said when you have debris on it your battery goes out iron sights are Superior then you also have to consider you have to have a holster to carry a Red Dot in more expense more ways to be hung up on where if you have iron sights and you get proficient with them you are much better off there's an old acronym kiss keep it simple stupid that's my opinion and like you said most gun battles are within 10 maybe 20 yards if you can't shoot it with iron sights you need to run away

@dragonsofthunder Жыл бұрын

IRON SIGHTS ON ALL MY PISTOLS!

@LuvBorderCollies Жыл бұрын

0:49 nipple heads on the internet. That is so accurate dealing with the zero life experience, ultra low shooting practice and even lower skills. Zit poppers would be another accurate descriptor. They always identify themselves quickly like the kid in class that jumps up excitedly waving his arms...pick on me pick on me. Sometime I oblige them by picking on them with razor sharp wit backed with decades of experience.

@LuvBorderCollies Жыл бұрын

With my eyesight red dots turn into vague irregular shaped thin cottonballs. On a rifle a peep sight sharpens the red dot. I do just fine at 50 yards with traditional S&W irons. The short ranges that actual defensive shootings occur I just don't see the need for a red dot. Also, I found out that green dots work MUCH better than red. Easier to see in daylight, not as blurred out to my eyes. Personally I would take the red dot money and put it into a good laser. That really opens up usability in awkward positions. Much more practical IMHO.

@toddm9501 8 ай бұрын

He's spot on about new and older shooters. Hickok45 rarely uses optics. The brain is a great thing, when you use it.

@ChadHargis Жыл бұрын

I had the opposite experience with red dots. I am 51yo and have been shooting iron sights since I got my first BB gun at 8yo. I got my first dot sight 2 years ago. The time it takes to get the gun on target, do the "equal height, equal light" assessment, and pull the trigger is MUCH slower than raising the gun into your field of view and "dot - bang". No focusing on the target, then focusing on the front sight, break the shot, and focus back on the target to see where you hit. I'm getting old eyes, and it takes more time to change my focus these days. With a dot you target focus, see the dot, "bang". I shoot IDPA competition and recently stopped shooting carry optics and went back to irons. I'm FAR slower with the irons than the dot. Those fractions of a second it takes to focus on the target, then the front sight, then align the sights, and fire is much slower for me.

@CtrlAltRetreat Жыл бұрын

Fair enough, my eyes do not like red dots. I get 7 dots with starbursts around each in a big dipper like pattern when I see one. On a rifle, the peep sight gives me the clarified picture you get out of a peephole and putting the front blade at the tip of the muzzle where I want my shots to go is a lot faster for me. To each their own, but my astigmatism says I like irons and magnified optics better.

@tuttifongul2006 Жыл бұрын

im the exact opposite. i had Romeo's and Primarys Arms on many weapons. my eyes getting into my 50's with just needing readers, ive removed all my red dots and went back to irons because i seem to have issues with sight pictures not giving me enough of a field of view in low light.

@shovelhead2155 Жыл бұрын

@@CtrlAltRetreatIm sure you probably already know this but a 1x or 3x prism optic really helps with astigmatism my brother has a primary arms and I have a vortex. He sees alot better now.

@keithkreatives 7 ай бұрын

You're essentially referring to your eyes adjusting to different focal planes. I agree....that's one advantage of the red dot.

@gunsnwater2668 5 ай бұрын

That equal hight equal light assessment is not for defense. Defense is muscle memory and front sight and if spitting distance just muscle memory. Longer shots nice groups yeah do all that stuff. Learning? Definitely do all that.

@regularbob 2 ай бұрын

Very thorough explanation. This cleared up a lot of questions for me. Thank you!

@shevetlevi2821 Жыл бұрын

I read an article recently comparing red dots to iron sights. They did a side by side comparison with the same pistols and same ammo with the sights being the only variable. They seemed to conclude that out to 10 yds. the iron sights held its own perfectly well against the red dots. Beyond 10yds the red dots pulled away and had increasing advantage as yardage increased.

@THESLlCK Жыл бұрын

How many bump in the night confrontations are from more than 30 yards anyway? I’d like to know the real life value of each in a real life situation, but I doubt will be able to gather that kind of data

@bullaaron Жыл бұрын

That’s what I have found with mine.

@thedumbguncollector5546 Жыл бұрын

red dots struggle to keep up with irons sub 10. And the situation reverses the further you get out.

@Libertarian_Neighbor Жыл бұрын

@@THESLlCK Irons are fine. However, if there was a hostage scenario I would want a red dot within 10 yards. I shoot a lot of squirrels, coyotes, etc out here and the red dot makes those shots possible. But I used to hit with irons too. The dot gives me an extra 15-20 yards of range. Lastly, I live on land, so that long shot is actually a possibility if someone was shooting at me or my family out here in the open. I like red dots, but irons have advantages at close range imo. Training is key.

@1984mrdale Жыл бұрын

@@THESLlCK you are only thinking of one engagement scenario. What about the mass shooter that’s 40 yards away? Not every encounter will be a 3 yard robbery. At 3 yards and less you are better off point shooting than using sights.

@williamjones6652 6 ай бұрын

At 59 I found the Holosun Green multi-reticle signt was a game changer for me. I took to it very well in just 200 rounds after shooting iron signts for approximately 40 years. It has drastically helped me get on target much faster as well as improved my follow up hits. I know it is a subjective choice but I haveoved to dot signts on my lever action .357, my shotgun and all my hanguns. As you stated range time is a must but that applies to any sight you choose be it iron or dot. I for one am extremely glad I took the chance because it has help me get on target & enjoy shooting even more than I did before which I didn't think was possible

@ihaveasandwichinmypocket Жыл бұрын

"I don't need a red dot because there is a learning curve" lmao

@galvinstanley3235 3 ай бұрын

People don't use a red laser as much as a green one.Our military and police use a green laser when they wear a gas mask.

@sucha603boy Жыл бұрын

We are transitioning to red dot sights at my PD and it’s definitely a learning curve when your used to iron sights. I will say that with some training my groups were tighter at 20-30yds plus with the red dot. It probably took a few hundred rounds just to get used to acquiring the dot when drawing.

@jamesrandall3192 Жыл бұрын

Great to hear the voice of experience. Thanks for sharing your knowledge Ken. Certainly gives me plenty of insight and things to consider.

@joshuabriggs7114 Жыл бұрын

An excellent overall treatment Ken; thank you!

@TheTruthis5285 Жыл бұрын

Great video Ken!!! Awesome information to help others decide if the red dot option is right for them. I consider myself in the 1% group. After 40 plus years shooting iron sights, 30 as a cop, my eyesight got too bad to get that separation between the front and rear sights. I mounted a Holosun, dry fired for 30 days straight with it, then started shooting live and have several thousand rounds with it. For me, it was a game changer. I agree, the key is to train. Thanks again Sir and h keep speaking the truth!!

@arocketgal Жыл бұрын

LOVED this analysis Ken! Fantastic and extremely helpful to me making a decision about this. Thank you for your time!

@guillermowilliams2970 5 ай бұрын

Thank you sir for setting me straight, I thought it was just me, because I shoot poorly with multiple red dots. I do fairly well with my iron sites because I've shoot thousands of rounds that way. I have a hugh learning curve to get use to my red dots. Thank you again sir great video and thank you for your expertise.

@michaelparks2398 5 ай бұрын

He didn’t set you straight. He isn’t capable of switching to a dot, so he fed you a list of excuses as to why you shouldn’t either and it was what you wanted to hear.

@dirkderolf4021 Жыл бұрын

I really enjoy listening to both Ken and Bill. These guys know what they are talking about because they have mountains of experience, they reason, and they say what they think. It is so very refreshing. Huge thumbs up!

@ParkerUAS Жыл бұрын

I've carried for about 15 years and put a red dot on my XDM OSP. It didn't significantly improve my performance, but was cumbersome to have in my concealed holsters. I ultimately decided that I would rather have typical Trijicon HD night sights that I was used to. I won't knock red dots, they definitely help in acquisition, but nobody should feel pressured to use them or not use them. As with everything, try as many options as you can and then go with what YOU like. You want to mount a scope on top of a derringer, best of luck... You do you.

@westpalmdoc 7 ай бұрын

Superb video thanks for taking the time to make it.

@DeePunter 9 ай бұрын

This channel like the guns it produces is gold.

@4242SLAYER Жыл бұрын

Very good information, especially after going through a recent training I truly realized how much work the transition to red dot requires after shooting my whole life with iron sights

@bjbarlow Жыл бұрын

Very solid and accurate presentation. Well done.

@jrf5418 Жыл бұрын

I can hear Ken all day long. The wisdom and authority from which he speaks based on his experience is awesome. I am a 1%er been shooting since childhood. 60 year young this year. I was at a Range Officer Class this past week, 6 guys with Red dot me and other one with iron sights. Have to tell you we did better than the red dots, our groups were tighter. the instructor even said, you guys better go check the sighting... anyway, conning myself to get a Red Dot, your wisdom sharing is invaluable. THANK YOU.

@davidny4638 Жыл бұрын

Absolutely excellent commentary, thank you

@DavidJones-zv1tv Жыл бұрын

Great video Ken! Your wisdom is greatly needed in the gun community.

@Roswell850 Жыл бұрын

No wisdom there, just Fudlore

@debelmeis2311 Жыл бұрын

Lol does not agree must disparage

@williamj4538 Жыл бұрын

Solid content and knowledge as always. 👌

@gowilsoncombat Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

@raulclaros1025 Жыл бұрын

I respect the honesty and appreciate the trend perspectives; just an excellent video..! Thank you!!!

@rccvcc 6 ай бұрын

Wow, beautifully broke down the pros and con's. Thanks for the insight!

@PatrickJDaley Жыл бұрын

Excellent presentation Mr. Hackathorn! Being an older guy and learning to shoot with Iron sights l can say l still shoot better using irons. Never quite thought the red dots were the way to go. I have had them, but not on my carry gun. Again, Excellent presentation!

@joshpuh2010 Жыл бұрын

As a cop, I honestly see less than 10% of my department being willing or able to put the time in on the red dot to become average let alone proficient. However, I have put in rounds and dry fire time, and I have seen fantastic results from the switch, much more consistent shooting coupled with the ability to focus on the threat in front of you makes a difference.

@wildrangeringreen Жыл бұрын

the moment I scored well on quals without looking at the sights (kind of a personal "I wonder if..."), I stopped worrying about target sights and optics. You don't need sights 90+% of the time. Look where you want to shoot, point the pistol, fire. basic eye-hand coordination. Move out past 25 yards, sights start to matter a little more, but you still can do well with only a small front blade. Before I left LE, my last sidearm was a 9x19 chambered government-style 1911 (sheriff authorized private purchase in a handful of chambers). Once it wasn't being used for work, i reamed the chamber out for 9x23 Winchester.

@evocati6523 Жыл бұрын

Cops have a 15% hit rate with irons anyway so you can't get much worse LOL

@jessegpresley Жыл бұрын

@@wildrangeringreen your "quals" are equal to placing a mirror to your mouth and fogging it up.

@wildrangeringreen Жыл бұрын

@@jessegpresley field expedient cleaning? makes sense.

@masteryofself9329 Жыл бұрын

Red dot is without a doubt superior but at the end of the day we all need to do what’s best for our preferences.

@rodolfo745 Жыл бұрын

The unquestionable wisdom coming from experience. Thanks a Lot.

@gator7082 5 ай бұрын

I’m actually transitioning some of my pistols back to irons. I bought into the modern trends for the past few years and have decided I like to keep it simple, especially for EDC. There’s something magical about a full size frame in a leather holster. It just plain works.

@RockinRack 4 ай бұрын

Same I still run a dot on fun guns but it's unrealistic and an inconvenience on my edc. I started practicing with no sights and found I could easily dump a mag into center mass at 15y with no sights Which is the more realistic scenario in self defense which usually happens in milliseconds at less than 7y

@woodystube1000 Ай бұрын

I could not agree more, thank you for saying this. There is nothing “Fudd” about an edc with irons. Like you, I ended up removing my red dot from my edc for a myriad of reasons. I just practice a lot more with it now. I still love red dots on my full-size pistols.

@woodystube1000 Ай бұрын

@@RockinRack I’m with you except for the “usually” thing. I get it, all we have is stats, but they don’t tell you anything about what YOUR potential defensive shooting might look like. The Eli Dickens shooting may not be “typical” but it still happened. Several people owe their lives to the fact that Eli did not have the mentality that he should only train and gear up for an incident within 15 yards. We can neither choose the time nor the place.

@ASPextra Жыл бұрын

Anyone who thinks they can't learn from Ken Hackathorn has left the realm of sanity. He's literally been teaching firearms use for longer than I have been alive. I can agree with a lot of what he is saying. I think there are a couple of places I disagree, respectfully. He's been around long enough that the "you damn kids get off my lawn" is his prerogative. I didn't particularly enjoy it, but I've had my ass chewed by my father and my grandpa enough times to know better than to roll my eyes. ;) I run a pistol mounted optic for my EDC, and I own a lot of dot guns. I am firmly in the 0.1%, though. My only advice is not to get mad at someone whose opinion differs from yours. It's a big internet.

@gowilsoncombat Жыл бұрын

Thanks for showing the 2A community how we should handle a disagreement.

@johnganshow5536 Жыл бұрын

I'd rather spend my money on ammo instead of a red dot...

@HAYAOLEONE Жыл бұрын

Still posting 'dead policeman CCTV footage' cOnTeNt after your commercials?

@CWHolleman Жыл бұрын

I find it interesting the title of this video has changed since..Likely because it was not likely to evoke civil discourse. 😉 I've always enjoyed listening to Mr. Hackathorn as well but we truly don't know what will become ubiquitous until it happens.

@jamesmanning8795 Жыл бұрын

Not gonna lie, I had to hold my Gen 5 Glock 22 with a SRO on it and tell it that it wasn't a fad and that I loved it. She is still pretty upset at me.

@jacklewis3444 Жыл бұрын

How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man!?!?

@brettgodfrey9536 Ай бұрын

If you shoot as well as Hack and know as much as he does, then my hat’s off to you.

@jonspencer7004 27 күн бұрын

spongebob....excellent

@robertfrapples2472 10 күн бұрын

You're going to blink and be as old as him, if you're lucky. I would have much rather aged in his era than in your woke one.

@CertifiedBullpupHater 3 күн бұрын

@@robertfrapples2472His era raised the woke one

@davidfrank6432 11 ай бұрын

Ken...Outstanding overview! Fair and balanced with context to all your key points. I'm "older guy" too so I went to MRDS on my Sig P365X. You nailed it! I'm decent and comfortable after maybe 800-1,000 rounds plus some dry firing, but really, with unaided vision using slide focus and natural point of aim my shots are combat effective IMHO out to 7 yards...at 10 decent. When a guy like you talks about MRDS, old guys like me listen intently!! Lots of hype out there. Thanks for sharing years and thousands of rounds worth of real experience!

@lucianoalvaradojr4605 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for valuable input on this Mr. Hackathorn.👍

@ReapAndReave Жыл бұрын

Fantastic video Hackathorn! Thank you for this. I've never seen one of the "tactical bros" on KZfaq be able to have an intelligent conversation about red dots that's actually grounded in reality.

@super1million11 5 ай бұрын

we have a similar problem in the car community. people talk about how you just gotta have that automatic transmission to the point that they don't even talk about engines anymore.

@ccjj9970 8 ай бұрын

Very well presented. I enjoyed hearing your perspective on both the pros and cons. I personally consider myself more of a 5 percenter. I do train regularly, but can no longer afford to burn through 150 to 250 rounds a week. I am in the process of going to a red dot setup strictly because I can no longer see the iron sights with any reasonable clarity. I use reading glasses. They work great for reading but suck for shooting. I can either wear them and see the sights but not the targert, or vice verse. I'm hoping the dot will bring back my ability to efficiently hit targets at distance.

@wraith0018 4 ай бұрын

I'm 54 an had get glasses about 10 years ago. As a avid shooter seeing my front sight was getting to be a problem. What you need to see better is trifocal lenses. Readers are for close up(10-12inchs). Trifocal are top is distance, middle are arms distance, bottom is reading distance. The arms distance will allow you to see your sights. There are line (etched line separating the focal plane) or no line (smooth lenses, slight blur between planes). I personally prefer line as it a crisp transition. I hope this helps to keep you enjoying shooting for many years to come.

@alfredgrandellsr3650 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this video! Makes total sense!

@philtorres3402 10 ай бұрын

Great video. Extremely well articulated! As a 1%-ter, I’m in transition to dots and got a lot from this video. More than I thought I would. I truly like them on PCCs and I’m trying to get used to them on handguns.

@MrClark68 Жыл бұрын

You are 100 percent Correct Ken. I’m an instructor and work in a gun store. The vast majority of the guys out there aren’t interested in actually learning to shoot and master the handgun. They just want the latest and greatest to be tacticool on the range.

@lovetopew9054 8 ай бұрын

That’s fairly funny as HACKathorn and his crew of fudds probably couldn’t get out of C class as mediocre as their shooting is.

@HennesseyNCigarz 8 ай бұрын

They’re nuts lol

@wiskkeetango 6 ай бұрын

Way to completely miss the point...your words are those of a fool

@wtcb7892 5 ай бұрын

Red dots are Tact Tards treats.

@michaelparks2398 5 ай бұрын

@@wtcb7892 the future always scare you or just the future of gun stuff?

@mrdclark2003 Жыл бұрын

I appreciate the straight talk. We need more of it.

@gogart3 Жыл бұрын

Thx Ken, made many good points. Agree that much practice is key if you're going to take these up and depend on them.

@rreidsigety Ай бұрын

Terrific perspective absolutely food for thought thank you

@MaxQ2989 Жыл бұрын

Great vid, great wisdom and experience, and all common sense. Just removed an RMR from my VP9 and went back to iron nightlights (Trijicon). Not being a 1%er but practicing often I find the iron much quicker to acquire since that’s what I’ve always used (going on 70). Thanks

@gowilsoncombat Жыл бұрын

Right on

@ramoncote1620 Жыл бұрын

Same here. Just more comfortable with iron sights. 43 years with iron sights I’m fine without a red dot on a pistol. My rifles I do like them

@raifcluster Жыл бұрын

Ken hit the nail on the head for me. During a live-fire training exercise recently, I used my P365X with a red dot. The sky was clouded over, so my dot was visible to my satisfaction. Right in the middle of an exercise, the clouds parted and that bright hot Texas sun made the dot disappear. My old brain that was with me through the previous months of red dot training could not quickly make the transition back to the iron sights. I could have kicked myself for dropping so many points due to that issue.

@RJT80 Жыл бұрын

Instinctive shooting needs to be taught more. On the worst day of your life it's almost certainly going to be more important than the red dot or your iron sights. The case of the young guy recently ending a mass shooter at 40 yards or whatever is a major outlier even for law enforcement. And you should be making those shots with irons anyhow.

@Racer88 Жыл бұрын

If it's the Sig Romeo red dot, then I'm not surprised. Frankly... it's a low quality sight.

@raifcluster Жыл бұрын

@@Racer88, admittedly, yes. It was the Sig Romeo. Upon returning home from that training class, I ordered a Holosun. Much easier to ratchet the brightness up or down.

@evocati6523 Жыл бұрын

Set it to a higher power, looking at a brighter dot is a much better tradeoff than not seeing your dot

@gregs4366 Жыл бұрын

Thank You! New shooter here. You folks are professional educators! I've learned so much of PRACTICAL knowledge. Keep it up !

@joepatriot4514 Жыл бұрын

Awesome video and great information.

@pocketsand4404 Жыл бұрын

I like the Leupold Deltapoint Micro on my Glock 21. It sits low on the rear sight keeping a small profile. Its small size has served well for concealed carry and duty purposes in a vehicle. The red dot aligns naturally with the iron sights so I don't have to hunt for the dot. It also has a closed emitter so it can work in all conditions. Just my go to red dot sight, but it still takes a lot of practice to be proficient with it.

@outbackeddie 7 ай бұрын

This video answered a lot of my questions (and saved me a lot of money). I'm sticking with iron sights. Thanks for the excellent run down of the pros and cons of red dots.

@super1million11 5 ай бұрын

go try one out at least. I'm not hard core for them but I have one and it's fun to mess around with once in a while.

@lovetopew9054 5 ай бұрын

That’s a weird way to say you want to remain mediocre.

@super1million11 5 ай бұрын

@lovetopew9054 What's mediocre about irons?

@banjobones8075 4 ай бұрын

@lovetopew9054 mediocre? So slap on an expensive optic and you're now a superior shooter? Pal you've got a lot to learn

@theociba3762 7 ай бұрын

Reasoned review, thanks fo taking the time to provide it. I have been on the fence about getting one and at the defensive range category you speak of, I'm not sold on adding them.

@obrienthornton5707 Жыл бұрын

I like the transparency in this video and lots of information.

@marybaxter2559 Жыл бұрын

I love wisdom from our elders! So much to learn here and NOT just about the red dot sight topic.

@ava9oh1282000 Жыл бұрын

Ever notice that "elders" aren't the ones inventing new things? Creating new inventions and IPs? There is a reason all "real" shooters, from cops and military to competition and target shooters have switched to dots. This is no different from the "red dots on rifles" is a fad argument geezers used to make.

@faiz_bham Жыл бұрын

Man, just because a statement is made by an old guy, doesn’t make it “wisdom”. The passing of time will make everyone old eventually. That’s why getting older isn’t an accomplishment.

@KB-eo9bu Жыл бұрын

@@ava9oh1282000 Ever notice how easy it is to pick out a Troll?🤔

@Quality_Guru Жыл бұрын

All excellent points that Ken made as I have transitioned from irons to red dots with some difficulty. As Ken points out, it can be overcome with lots of dry fire time and range sessions. I have also picked up some outstanding tips from Tactical Hyde and Sage Dynamics that have made the presentation much more efficient and natural using a red dot. The drills that they put together are nothing short of excellent (I wish that I knew about them during my transition). An interesting observation that I made is that using red dots has made me a better shooter with irons, not that I was any good to begin with, but improvement is the journey to becoming better.

@cagneybillingsley2165 Жыл бұрын

i love vids like this because it upsets gen x and millenials who think red dots and other gadgets will improve their shooting. what's implied is that the people who buy red dots have no talent

@Quality_Guru Жыл бұрын

@@cagneybillingsley2165 That's a bold statement. I completely understand where Ken is coming from as I'm no spring chicken, but I would not discount the Gen X and Millennials nor the use of a Red Dot. Let's recall that they were the ones that actively volunteered to join the Arm Services when there were two Gulf Wars, and they knew that they would be seeing active combat. I have a great deal of respect for the Gen X and Millennials, as some never came back alive after active service. In regards to using Red Dots, you might want to consider a class with Sage Dynamics or the Modern Summary Project. I believe that they can add to the conversation and present a different perspective than Ken's point.

@wesbrown5601 Жыл бұрын

@@Quality_Guru I'll toss my two cents in here about Gen-X, Millennials, and the Gen-Z sheeple that I've talked to about RDOs, and the usual response that I get is that it's absolutely necessary to have one to be a good shooter, these are also usually the same ones that have to have a 1000 lumen light on the front. Those are a completely different group from the ones that served, I work at a LGS and have talked to many ex-servicemen and women, they tend to have a more practical mindset when it comes to their firearms and it comes from real world experience. As for my opinion on RDOs in general, I tend to agree with Ken, do or don't, it's your choice.

@Quality_Guru Жыл бұрын

@@wesbrown5601 I'm no expert but I suspect if you are a new or occasional shooter without years of ingrained iron sights use you don't have the neural pathways locked in. I have witnessed the the transition to using pistol optics for newbies to be much easier. I have used the tips from Tactical Hyde to convert a newbie to using red dots to the point that they have explained that it is like cheating. Once you get to used to using pistol sights it just becomes more natural to be target focus as humans have been doing so for thousands of years. I can see why they would make that point since they see it as a more natural presentation. I'm like you, I like to keep my options and training flexible.

@ACGBLR Жыл бұрын

@@wesbrown5601 what is wrong with having a bright weapons light on their firearm? Should you not take the precaution of being 100% sure of your target? You speak ill of the younger gens, yet are spewing some real fuddery. Did you seem to forget that these younger gens have been fighting a 20 year war?

@czechtactical8388 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this excellent and reasoned discussion.

@toddweller4642 Жыл бұрын

This is the third video I've seen from you or you and Bill Wilson. Love your stuff. Thank You.

@gowilsoncombat Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@chickmagnet8301 Жыл бұрын

Great video and I think you really nailed some amazing points. I just switched to carrying a pistol with a dot in august. I can already see an improvement with my shooting. I am cross dominant so I feel like it helps there. I definitely have looked into the disadvantages and will be prepared to change the battery before it dies. I also shoot 100-200 rounds a month minimum.

@tkilg7169 Жыл бұрын

Me too. I'm left eye dominant and a right hander.....plus I wear bifocals, which muddies up the water more. When I got my red dot, I was blown away with how I can now see the target in clear focus and not have to focus on the front sight, but put the dot on the clear target. For me it is great.

@guitfiddle Жыл бұрын

I agree with you on all points. I'm a casual shooter and iron sights are natural to me. Putting a red dot on a rifle was a very easy transition; on a pistol it is not at all easy. I have decided I like one on my Ruger 22/45 for hunting, but never on my CCW. I only carry a .40 S&W because I carry it for animal defense while hunting. For two legged enemies, I would choose 9mm because it's easier to make follow-up shots accurately.

@JMAv8Tor 5 ай бұрын

GREAT VIDEO!!! Nothing like experience! Thank you🇺🇸

@carlospinzon9842 Жыл бұрын

Awesome video, very informative

@jimhartzell5092 Жыл бұрын

I glad to hear this; I've been shooting iron sighted 1911's 45 since the 80's. If I still handgun hunted maybe... Keep up the great job Ken ! Stay Strong and Be Safe !!

@dts1910 Жыл бұрын

Thoughtful presentation. Agree 100% about practice. I have two dot pistoles and was stunned when I grabbed one and the bat was dead. I really didn't believe it, so you must check your bat condition regularly.

@the-original-ghost Жыл бұрын

You may want to look into shake awake red dot. I am forgetful and its forgiving.

@brucejeppesen1237 Жыл бұрын

Great information Ken! Thank you. I had been considering one of those sights but think I will just keep it old school. Pro's and con's to everything.

@gowilsoncombat Жыл бұрын

Right on

@dalewalters357 Жыл бұрын

Lots of history and good words to ponder.

@retiredshredders 10 ай бұрын

This was exactly my case. I'm glad I'm not alone. 26 years of law enforcement had me front sight focused. Learning the red dot was exactly as you described. And, your are right about dry firing not helping. It took me 500 rounds to start getting synced in. I was able to accelerate the curve by taping my front lens on red dot. Now, I'm practicing acquiring dot after magazine exchanges, because it is also different. Great talk!!

@BossHog007 Ай бұрын

LEO here as well. Came here to say, at the end of the day. If I put two identical guns (one with a dot, one with combat good irons) in front of you and said in 2 minutes a bad guy with a gun is going to come in here to get in a gunfight with you. I’m willing to bet you’d still pick up the one with good combat irons. Long story short: if it ain’t broke. Don’t fix it

@retiredshredders Ай бұрын

@BossHog007 if it's close, I don't use sights until 10 yards or further. I've been able to point shoot since the 70's. I've also been able to shoot two guns simultaneously on police courses with perfect scores. Picking which gun isn't an issue. I'll take both.

@Treblaine 15 күн бұрын

There's also the stress factor, if you are trembling from extreme exertion or pressure can you "read" a red dot effectively if its dancing around like crazy? Okay, obviously your shooting will be impaired from that but you're now no longer "just lining up the dot over the bad guy" you're lining up the mean central position of the dot's erratic orbit over the bad guy. Under stress, iron sights may give you what's unambiguously a good enough sight picture, it's not "equal light equal height" but it's enough that you know the cone of dispersion will still be on target.

@elbryan9 Жыл бұрын

I've been shooting with iron sights for over 30 years now but I recently bought a Holosun 507 with the ACSS Vulcan reticle and am pretty pleased thus far. My eyesight has always been pretty bad; I have to wear glasses to see at distance and have astigmatism in both eyes. Without my glasses on, it's incredibly hard to find the front sight post so I've always preferred either a laser and/or tritium night sights. With that ACSS Vulcan reticle, it's super easy for me to find that red dot with or without my glasses on. I also practiced clearing my house recently and (especially at night), found that the ACSS reticle dramatically helped keep my aim true; particularly with awkward shooting angles like aiming around corners or walking up or down the stairs. It might be a fad for now. I don't know. But for me, I find the benefits greatly outweigh the cons.

@jeffreystayman375 Жыл бұрын

That's a point that wasn't mentioned; eye glasses. I wear them too. If I have to respond to a "bump in the night" at home, I may or may not have time to get my glasses out of their case and on my face. Without my glasses, iron sights are unrecognizable.

@mikegurv1818 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this video. A lot of valuable information. I'm slowly changing my mind about getting a red dot.

@IEraiderfan 10 ай бұрын

Thank you Ken for the video stay safe 👍🏼

@elnach3240 Жыл бұрын

This is the best analysis I have heard yet on this issue. I live in ND where my pistol is against my warm body and may be drawn into sub-zero air temperatures at certain times of the year. I have also noticed a lot of lint accumulating on my red dot lenses when I carry them IWB for extended periods. You validated my decision to discontinue having red dots on my CCW's. Thank you Sir!

@MADDOG100ful Жыл бұрын

Absolutely agree, dots are constantly getting lent in them and still adds weight and a rougher shaped gun to attempt to carry without any comfort issues.

@ShitboxFlyer Жыл бұрын

That issue can very easily be solved with closed emitter red dots like the holosun 509, eps, aimpoint acro, and Steiner red dots.

@abc4781 Жыл бұрын

@@ShitboxFlyer exactly

@abc4781 Жыл бұрын

An easy fix for both is 1. Using a closed emmitter optic, and 2. Take a dove soap bar wipe in on your optic lens and buff it in with a rag to prevent fogging.

@donables1200 Жыл бұрын

Love me some KH (as a matter of fact Ameriglo Hacks are my default sight), but one of the big positives is that in dry firing and even live fire (with attentiveness) the dot gives you so much more information on trigger pull and basic fundamentals. Iron sights mask sight picture wobble and bad trigger press. When you can dry fire without the dot jumping around, and in live fire when the dot goes straight up and returns to a place very close to where you were aiming, your fundamentals are sound. It is much harder to develop this with irons unless you have a good instructor and lots and lots of rounds downrange. So even if someone doesn't like it for duty/carry, it is still a valuable training tool to shorten the learning curve on basic fundamentals.

@bunsguns8222 Жыл бұрын

@Don Ables Mantis x and laser academy will show you way more than a red dot in that regard.

@hockscombativeschannel407 Жыл бұрын

Fantastic advice, Fantastic info.

@gowilsoncombat Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

@berserkerok3351 6 ай бұрын

Excellent info sir, thank you!

@oldcop18 Жыл бұрын

I’m an old geezer too (75) and it slays me how people hang a bunch of crap on their gun in hopes of becoming a great shot. As one who survived more than one gunfight w/a standard issue police .38 I know how much $$ is being wasted on that stuff.

@johnqpublic6019 Жыл бұрын

One cannot buy skill! Well said sir.

@pewpew9193 Жыл бұрын

Gear can't make you a good shot, but you're a fool if you think good gear can't help a skilled person perform better.

@oldcop18 Жыл бұрын

@@pewpew9193 If I were highly skilled and a competitive shooter those things might make sense. I do shoot regularly at an indoor range & just carry/practice for self defense, but I’m not a fool.

@coup_de__grace 2 ай бұрын

Not a fool, yet you take the position of someone who thinks the only reason people buy a red dot is to make one a better shot. A red dot allows you to be sights-on-target faster than irons, this is just a fact, but this has nothing to do with someone’s ability to shoot well. You apparently can’t grasp this basic fact.

@robertfrapples2472 10 күн бұрын

If you want to find the man with the least talent in any field, look for the guy with the newest, cleanest and flashiest gear. They try to buy experience.

@cjguitarman7991 Жыл бұрын

Ken’s main point: “you need to practice with a red dot optic to become good at it.” But it’s the same for iron sights: you need to practice to be good at it. And he starts the video by saying that for new shooters a red dot is quicker to learn. Most of this advice is about whether someone who is already highly proficient with iron sights should switch to a dot optic.

@96stealth Жыл бұрын

He came across as dogmatic to me. He said you’re on crack if you think it’s better inside of 10 yards. Just an absolute false statement. He put himself on a pedestal. Meaning if he doesn’t see better results, then no one else will. Also by insulting the viewer, he showed he unwilling to hear any arguments. He will and did just dismiss any.

@thatsmytwocents4372 Жыл бұрын

Not sure if that was the internet, but perception plays a huge role. My feeling is that inside 10 yards it’s a point and shoot game, not much aiming needed. That’s how i understood what he said, but hey, That’s just My Two Cents !!!

@96stealth Жыл бұрын

@@thatsmytwocents4372 For me using a dot pretty much is point shooting except you are actually confirming that you are on target. Iron sights for precision requires proper sight alignment and is a more gross way of aiming due to the size of irons, more obstruction due to (for me personally) not being able to shoot with both eyes open with irons. I present the gun properly and get a clear and precise sight picture. No alignment. Just, is the dot on target then press trigger. I would love to see someone point shoot a .5” dot consistently at even 5 yards. I would not feel comfortable point shooting at someone 7+ yards away just because I can do it. We are talking about moving targets under stress. There’s a video of a guy selling air Jordan’s to someone in a parking lot. Both men had a group of friends around them. They both pulled guns on each other point blank firing multiple rounds. As far as I know no one was hit. Just stupid luck that no one did. I’m not putting faith in not aiming with precision when it matters. Again, for me personally both eyes open on a clear target and a dot on that target is better than one eye closed aligned sights on a fuzzy target. Point shooting only acceptable at maybe 6’. I’ve done bill drills sub 2 sec, so I’m more than competent.

@avnmech 11 ай бұрын

Great video, thank you.

@roadkill1030 4 ай бұрын

An excellent video. Very informative and accurate.

@thinman8621 Жыл бұрын

Thank you, Mr. Hackathorn for a well thought out, pros and cons sharing of your views. Marketing folks are pushing the red dot narrative. Different people will find different answers. My edc pistol is fine without a red dot. I do have a red dot on one of my range recreation pistols. Again, great video. Thanks

@user-vf3gf4xq3v Жыл бұрын

I’ve been shooting these for years. You are spot on that compared to irons it is more perishable if you don’t practice with the red dot. I have several identical guns, one with a red dot and one without. I find myself using the ones with irons more. I’m no spring chicken either, we’re pretty close in age.

@definitelynotaheretic.7295 Жыл бұрын

Not to mention the fact that for the cost of simply putting a red dot on my current carry gun, I could buy 2,000 rounds of ammo to train with…

@jessegpresley Жыл бұрын

@@definitelynotaheretic.7295 yeah too bad it's only one or the other.

@definitelynotaheretic.7295 Жыл бұрын

Well I can only afford one or the other, so yeah, it is.

@Visual217 11 ай бұрын

@@definitelynotaheretic.7295but you won't, because everyone who makes this argument doesn't actually do that or seem to grasp the concept of training with your tools anyways. Get the dot and 2,000 rounds anyways. You're presumably an adult with income. Save up if you have to. You're already carrying a lethal tool you should be as proficient and accurate as possible with.

@demunbell 5 ай бұрын

100% valid points made!! experience, logic & time will tell if trend becomes EDC mainstay👍🏿 tyvm WC!!

@rayraman3243 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the no nonsense advice.

@clrd4tkoff Жыл бұрын

Wow! What an awesome video with amazing perspective!! 👍🏻 👍🏻 No matter what you use..Train with it!

@gowilsoncombat Жыл бұрын

Absolutely!

@WGH-ef5ze Жыл бұрын

What is being discussed is the difference between fighting with a pistol and shooting for sport. Less is more with the fighting tools. Great sound advice from a been their done that man. Thanks much Mr. Hackathon. Appreciate the option.

@wingchunlifeforce2530 2 ай бұрын

thank you for telling straight and standing your ground ❤🙏🏾✌🏾

@bgg9619 4 ай бұрын

Good analysis. Thank u sir fr sharing ur thghts. Rlly makes sense.

@harrydexter8426 Жыл бұрын

Excellent points! Thank you. As a person who does shoot often you expressed exactly my thoughts about red dots. You have a winner with this video! Stay healthy, safe & shoot straight with irons!👍😊🇺🇸

@billengland1183 Жыл бұрын

Thank you. Thoughtful, well-considered, and informed by many decades of substantial experience. Your training classes were superb, and your videos amply reward the time spent watching!

@charlieandhudsonspal7031 Жыл бұрын

I’m showing my wife the part where you said I was pretty smart. But seriously I’m out of commission right now from surgery and have been watching a lot of WC videos. Great info and wisdom. Thank you very much.

@MichaelMoore-od4jz 11 ай бұрын

Great video really liked it thanks

@mengdynasty6034 Жыл бұрын

I just recently got into red dots after 15 years, and for me it helps. Faster acquisition and follow ups. I can say that my shooting has improved.

@DavidLLambertmobile Жыл бұрын

I'm 51 & my 👓 is going bad 📉. I like the concept & +s of rear optics but in 2022, the rear optics are WAY off for me, $ & design(practical) points. Maybe in 5-6yr, 2028, maybe. Now? 2023? No. For the record, I prefer to buy new "optic" plate semi auto pistols. Guns & optics will fall in line 2024 2025. Not now.

@Redeemedpooper Жыл бұрын

If our pocket pistols don’t have 20 round magazines a compensated 3in barrel a weapon light and 1/4lb trigger we will lose the gun fight 😢😭😭😭🤪

@jardinero9112 Жыл бұрын

Don't forget about the wizbang 2,000?

@phillipneill7315 Жыл бұрын

Every self-defense pistol must have a bayonet!

@Redeemedpooper Жыл бұрын

@@phillipneill7315 and storage for a Tourniquet Band-Aids for USCCA membership card and skittles.

@MrSomeofthem Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂 100%

@nmr6988 Жыл бұрын

👍🏼😆💯

@robertmcmahon1221 8 ай бұрын

Good points to consider. Thank you.

@Glizzygripes 6 ай бұрын

Agreed , you have to put the work in and be the type who’s gonna check your systems often. possibly can be good for brand newbies too

@seanreese311 Жыл бұрын

Very good information. After shooting iron sights for 50 years it’s tuff to switch just to “keep up with the times”.

@user-mj1vb8jr6j Жыл бұрын

Ever get into the channel sage dynamics? He was a red dot hater back in the day and made videos on how it’s slower than irons and worse than irons. That’s if you dig deeeep into it like 8 years. Now he has a Bible of white papers on dots and single handedly converted so many LEO departments and agencies to dot. He goes into the science on it and he is the man. I love my irons but I also love my dot. The dot is superior. We went through the same thing with carbines not 30 years ago. Everyone was anti dots and thought they were a gimmick. They have since forever changed the battlefield and people dog on Russia for not having dots on everything. These are the same for pistols. It’s a matter of the eye being evolved for first focal plane shooting not front sight focus. It’s amazing. But irons are deadly as can be and won’t under gun you. Not to mention you look cool with em like driving an old sting ray without a seatbelt. It’s sick

@Brett235 Жыл бұрын

I've only been hunting for about 35 years and I am going back to iron sights on my rifles. I will not shoot at an animal if it is farther than I can comfortable see with the iron sights. Just personal preference.

@user-mj1vb8jr6j Жыл бұрын

@@Brett235 for sure to that. There’s such a sport component to hunting it’s insane. The media will have you believe it’s all poachers jumping out the truck with a dip in and taking a shot off the hood. It can be that, but it can also be archery, muzzleloader, shotgun, pistol, rifle, irons vs optics, you name it. That’s my favorite part is hunting is more of a categorical term akin to the word sports. Going muzzleloader vs 300 magnum if ur pronghorn hunting is like comparing soccer and basketball.

@RandomGuyOnTarget Жыл бұрын

Since that episode I’ve been waiting for THIS episode Ken. Excited to see especially as a very young shooter!

@matthewangotti7205 Жыл бұрын

Excellent advice, IMHO.

@stantoscano1790 11 ай бұрын

You are the Man. Thank you for your insight🙏🏼💙

@murrayjimm Жыл бұрын

OUTSTANDING discussion and honesty on the subject.

@gowilsoncombat Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@ACGBLR Жыл бұрын

How is this a discussion? More of a rant.

@josepharnold1345 Жыл бұрын

Thank you sir. As an instructor running transition classes for LEOs who want to run dots, I agree with you in most respects. I have observed so many problems, from flying off the gun to obscured glass to the battery literally flying out of one, that the course we designed for our officers focuses more on how to shoot it broken than how to shoot it when everything is perfect. About the only place I see an advantage is the farther you get from the target, as long as they stay zeroed and I’ve seen every brand lose zero. During our last academy session, took a shot from 100 yards expecting to ring steel and was off. Rang it twice in a row with the back up iron sights. In the real world, that’s a bullet you don’t get back so hopefully the miss doesn’t hit anyone or anything it shouldn’t. I’ll train both but I’ll carry without unless I’m teaching a red dot class.

@DARTHDANSAN 8 ай бұрын

Great tips

@RayEvangelista70 5 ай бұрын

Awesome video!

@RealtorRod64 Жыл бұрын

Nice and good advice. I own many pistols even a few with antiquated lasers ;) But only one has a red dot, and it is a 44 mag 7.5 inch revolver I occasionally hunt with. You are spot on, red dots good at distance, iron is fine up close. For occasional shooters stick with simple and no batteries required.