What’s really tragic is that both Sid and Nancy were about my age when they died. They were so so young it’s actually crazy how fast their whole lives escalated

I was at school when Sid Vicious died. One of my classmates asked the teacher if we could have a minute's silence and the teacher agreed, amazingly. After a few seconds he scratched his nails really loudly down the blackboard. I'm afraid still think it was one of the most genius things I've ever seen.

I can't believe that Sid's mom was never charged with his death: Criminally negligent homicide? Manslaughter of some kind? Anyway, great job as always.

A few things, since you said you didn't mind if people corrected you: - Nancy was only 20 when she died. Sid was only 21 when he died - Sex Pistols was started by Steve Jones and Paul Cook. They met Glen Matlock, who worked at SEX, after Matlock tried to stop them from shoplifting. Jones led the band as their lead singer and was the one who was always trying to get McLaren to manage them. He switched to guitar after he and McLaren mutually decided that the original guitar player (Wally Nightingale) needed to leave the band. A few months later, Johnny Rotten joined as singer and Jones gave him his stage name as a reference to his rotten teeth. Jones and McLaren were very, very close friends and Jones even lived with McLaren for a while due to being homeless - Lemmy is the bassist of Motorhead. Steve Jones is, as mentioned above, the guitarist and founder of the Sex Pistols. Lemmy was close with many people in the punk scene, even letting Sid live with him for a while - Sid was a virgin and, according to Johnny Rotten, scared of girls before meeting Nancy. Nancy was his first real girlfriend. Before Nancy, Sid was in a romantic (but not sexual) relationship with Leee Black Childers, an older man and the manager of The Heartbreakers. Childers has spoken about this in many interviews including ones for books such as Please Kill Me and The England's Dreaming Tapes - Groupies weren't something the members of the Sex Pistols (minus Steve Jones, who had a severe sex addiction due to abuse he suffered as a child) really cared about. Johnny Rotten especially had no patience for groupies and was known for his loyalty to his wife Nora. Rotten met Nora when he was 19 and she was in her 30s. They were married when he was around 22/23 years old and he became the step-father of Nora's daughter Ari Up aka the lead singer of The Slits - Johnny Rotten did not sleep with Nancy. He despised her the moment he met her and considered her repulsive. This is partly due to his dislike of Americans and partly due to his dislike of groupies and casual sex. He passed her off to Sid as a joke, hoping Sid would agree that she was repulsive so they could laugh at her later. Sid thought Nancy was beautiful and intelligent though and wanted to stay with her. Rotten despised Nancy and her relationship with Sid. He believed that Nancy was 'stealing' his best friend from him - Sid's mother gave him heroin as a birthday present when he was a young teenager. He also self harmed constantly and, according to Rotten's father, once cut his arm very badly in order to be given care and affection - Sex Pistols had a decent amount of male 'groupies' as well as female ones. Billy Idol was one of them. He, Siouxsie Sioux, Steve Severin, Soo Catwoman, and a few other people were a group that was called the Bromley Contingent. They would follow the Sex Pistols all over the place to watch them play gigs and hang out with them. Billy drove them in his van all the way to Paris just because they didn't want to be away from their favorite band for too long. Most of these people became musicians themselves due to how inspired they were by the Sex Pistols - Sid was very easily influenced and often violent on behalf of his friends. He once beat journalist Nick Kent with a bike chain because Kent had attacked Sid's friend Chrissie Hynde (yes THAT Chrissie Hynde) with a belt. He also hit a random audience member at a Sex Pistols concert with a bike chain because the audience member was fighting with Vivienne Westwood over a seat - Nancy was very verbally degrading towards Sid and often insulted him. This is part of why she was hated in London as Sid's friends didn't like how she treated him. They looked the other way when Sid would hit Nancy because, in their minds, it was him fighting back against her This information can easily be learned in books such as Pretty Vacant: A History of UK Punk, England's Dreaming, and the autobiographies of Steve Jones, Johnny Rotten, and Glen Matlock

i dated a guy who was obsessed with Sid Vicious and i’m so glad i got out when i did 😅😅 he literally wanted to model his entire life around him and turn us into sid and nancy. it was insane

As a punk, I wasn't aware of how bad this situation was. Thank you for bringing more attention to this sad case in such a respectful way x

Shout out to you for calling out a few perverts who have been allowed to thrive beyond their disgusting crimes!

“And now she was a little shit” I fucking cackled

Pregnancy tests are for a hormone levels that show if you're pregnant or not. That type of hormone doesn't go away as soon as the abortion is done so more likely she has never been pregnant. Truly awfull stuff, she clearly had some mental issues.

The romanticising of the ‘Sid and Nancy’ type relationship is SO disturbing and I’ve always been so put off by it. More people need to know the actual details. Sid Vicious was a poser anyway.

I'm so shocked his mother didn't face any charges. His mother's story should be a true crime podcast on its own.

The side story with Johnny Rotten getting effectively banned from the UK media landscape for decades for outing Jimmy Saville in 1978 is pretty crazy too.

In terms of the first few months of Nancy's life, it sounds like her brain was impacted from oxygen starvation (speaking from experience with my son the last year)- hospitalisation and feeding tubes can affect digestive systems so my son has been in pain since birth and has the same consistent sleep. Oxygen starvation can cause severe developmental delays which can lead to personality problems (like the temper tantrums and manipulation). It really seems like she had a medical trauma, rather than a mental illness (in the very early years anyway). My son was diagnosed with HIE, which of course was unheard of in the 70s but the signs seem to suggest that Nancy may have been the same

I'm so glad you covered this one. It seems like Sid was more into downers, so I think that he was probably actually knocked out when Nancy died. If Nancy was killed by someone else (which is what I believe), they might've thought that Sid was already dead. They wouldn't have known that Sid survived until after cops were on the scene, and at that point the survivor was the fall guy. I hate to say it, but it's kind of a perfect crime if someone wanted to kill both of them.

I honestly don't believe Sid killed her, I know they were toxic but I just can't see him murdering her. Thank you so much for covering this story xxx

It's so strange to me that Sid is assumed to be the killer when he's reported to have been out cold basically the whole night. IDK what I think *did* happen but it sounds like almost anyone could've been in and out of that room and even if he had woken up that night, on those kind of drugs I doubt he'd be alert enough to really hurt someone like that. I guess I'm not an expert on drugs or anything but it just doesn't add up

I have never seen a true crime KZfaqr cover Sid and Nancy! I used to rent documentaries on them in high school. Thank you, Eleanor 🖤

As someone who was suicidal when I was only 8 years old and not knowing what it was at the time it’s really difficult to work through and understand. For the people who were young and went through that I’m so incredibly sorry and you’re so strong for getting through that ❤

Crazy that they were just 20 and 21 years old! So much happened in their life, shows how destructive trauma and addiction can be

this is why humane, respectful, personalized and thourogh mental health services are absolutely needed. if sid got the help he was trying to get as a kid, and if nancy got the correct diagnosis and mental help this never would have happened.

I highly, HIGHLY recommend the book "And I Don't Want To Live This Life" written by Nancy's mother. Nancy was a complicated girl since the day she was born, and her story is so fascinating. I've read the book almost 10 times now.

I agree with everyone that said that romanticizing Sid and Nancy is wrong. I never thought their story was romantic. They just seemed like a couple of dead end kids that were codependent, and had a huge drug problem. Whether Sid killed Nancy, or even if it was someone else, you got to think about the life that they were leading. I remember a story about Sid hanging a cat for no reason other than to watch it struggle, and die. That tells me alot about him, and Nancy isn't much better.

Perhaps you should include the word Allegedly Murdered in the header because we don't really know for a fact as there has never been a thorough and complete investigation into this tragedy. I personally think it's more likely that the drug dealer committed this crime while Sid was still conked out on the barbiturates. The only way that Sid could have ever did this being in the state he was in is if Nancy woke him up by shaking him really hard or by throwing cold water on him, and then she began starting a fight with him making him angry enough to do this, but somehow I don't think that's what really happened.

"And I Don't Want to Live this Life" was a tragic story of Nancy's life, written by her mother. Read it in grade 9, it was heavy.

The fact the his mother injected him right after an OD and walked off to bed makes me think he either asked her to do this and kill him or she had a gross misunderstanding of what happens when you stop taking drugs and your tolerance goes down.

i'm surprised nobody in the comments is talking about the possibility of sid not having killed nancy! did anybody analyse blood stain patterns on his clothes and shoes? he was so intoxicated that night, how possibly he could change and clean up his hands? was the knife checked for fingerprints and dna?

Case suggestion: Cover the Alyssa Turney case. Stepfather obsessed with stepdaughter - she wound up dead. He was acquitted. Siblings think he did it. One sister has a podcast.

I've always believed they were robbed and she was stabbed by one of the losers that were there, i don't believe it was Sid. I think that if this went to trial there's a very strong chance, with a decent lawyer he could get a not guilty.

Hi Eleanor! I haven’t seen anyone else comment on the negative pregnancy test so I wanted to let you know - if she had been pregnant the test would have still shown positive due to hormones. The hormone that pregnancy tests detect stays detectable for a few weeks after birth. I hope this helps!

My mum and dad were punks. My dad still was a punk rocker up until the day he died. He was the lead vocalist in 3 different punk rock bands. He got into punk in the late 70s, joined his first band in the early 80s and he played gigs all over the UK for decades. So proud of my punk parents 🥰

Nurse here! Even after a miscarriage or abortion, a pregnancy test will still show positive due to the HCG (pregnancy hormone) still in the body. So if the test at the hospital was negative then she likely was not pregnant.

My best friend was subjected to things similar to what Nancy's siblings experienced with her. It's truly awful the way those things haunt you forever, I hope Nancy's siblings heal well from the impact Nancy had on them

About the pregnancy thing.... Even if you miscarried, you would still show that you are pregnant for a few days and sometimes weeks after. It's the body's hormones. She probably was never pregnant but missed periods because of the drugs. I LOVE PUNK ROCK LORE and this one has always been one I had always been so fascinated with

This case is so sad to me. Both of them were so troubled, it's a shame they ended the way they did.

You had me hooked with this video, I didn’t really know much about Sid and Nancy before but the level of detail that this case holds is insane and you covered it so well and so respectfully. More like this please 👌🏻 x

You should do a video essay on the history of groupies. My understanding is the 50s and 60s era groupies were wild and frenzied. A deep dive would be cool

u should most DEFINITELY cover the history of the black metal band mayhem !!! they have LOTS of crimes to go over and a shocking death of a member...

Eleanor please cover Mia Zapata's horrific murder! She was lead singer of 90s grunge band the gits and the least well known 27 club member! Its such a sad case but very interesting and doesnt get talked about much

1 Nancy was not a super groupie 2 Sid Played Bass not Guitar 3 Johnny Rottons real name is Lydon not Lindon 4 anarchy in the u.k. did not get them banned from t.v. Check out their appearance on the Reg Grundy show, that Cost Reg his career. 5 Steve Jones never played Bass with Motörhead, that was Lemmy Kilmister who was also the singer.

48:34 to answer your question about the not pregnant reading, it means she wasnt pregnant at all. when people are pregnant their hormones stay the same for a couple days/weeks so if you just had a baby and took a pregnancy test it would say positive. if she gave herself this abortion and it said she was pregnant, that means that the abortion was successful but it said she wasnt and that means she went through this trauma for pretty much nothing :(

As someone with anxiety and other mh things, i really appreciate how sensitive and considerate you are regarding those kind of subjects within true crime/mystery cases xx

It would be good to know if her autopsy determined est time of death. I can’t see him waking up and killing her and then going back to sleep. He would have been crazy with grief off the bat. They were co-dependent. The last theory makes A LOT of sense to me.

Oh man, I had never seen that interview with Sid wearing the red Swastika shirt where Nancy offers to make him a cup of coffee, but it took me back to a much darker time in my life from many years ago (fyi I am not complaining, Eleanor warned us and I can fully handle it) when I used to be hooked on heroin with my partner at the time. He would always do too much and would speak just like Sid was in that interview, not making any sense and just mumbling. Granted, my partner wasn’t doing any television interviews, but I was always having to clarify what he was saying when we were around friends. He never believed me later that he’d been acting like that, I had to take a couple of videos to prove it to him. This led him to realize how bad we really needed to get clean, and we thought he could do it together. Unfortunately, if you’re with someone and you’re in that situation where you’re in a vicious (um, sorry for the pun…I can’t think of a better word) cycle like that, sometimes you have to get away from one another for each of you to get healthy. You have to prioritize. You can’t take care of someone else if you’re not first taking care of yourself. I’m not sure how we realized this but we did, and I’ll be forever grateful for that. I have been clean for years now, and as far as I know, so has he. I wish him the absolute best. My former drug of choice, as well as most, if not all other hard drugs purchased on the street, are now even more dangerous than they were before due to the addition of fentanyl. I know more people than I can count on one hand who have overdosed and passed away because of the fentanyl epidemic. Final message in this comment: Don’t do these things. Please. You’ll regret it. If you want to be “Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll,” just smoke some weed. None of that other shit is good for you. Stay safe everyone ❤

I never really knew that jaundice could kill babies either. I thought it just made them feel sick and that they needed extra care to help. Also not me laughing at work everytime you called small Nancy a "little shit" 😂 I'm sorry.

I’ve never heard this story in detail like this ever, it’s so doomed from the start of life from even before they were born. This is honestly such a tragic and hopeless true story of human life, honestly sickening.

I’ve always heard the term “Sid and Nancy” but never knew the back story. Thanks for covering this case!

No you're wrong. As someone who grew up in the late 70s and 80s, I can assure you, their views 100% DID NOT reflect the feelings at the time. Punk was a place for the unpopular kids to go and get their angst out. They were the first emo kids. And while there were pockets of people that engaged in that, it was FARRR from the majority. No the majority of kids were doing other things with metal, hip hop and pop music was by FAR the more dominant cultures of the times. the whole narrative you're trying to weave about punk rock just doesn't bear any similarities to the truth. Yeah if you were in that scene it would appear to be the dominant theme in life but it 100% wasn't. Look at the Breakfast Club movie, the one guy who was possibly a punk was 1 out of 6. That's HARDLY a majority.

Was waiting for you to say David Bowie. Unfortunately he's infamous for sleeping with young groupies

Sad story of addiction, self destruction, toxic relationships, murder, and an enabling mother.

i LOVEEEEE how long these cases have been!! and just the way you tell them i’ve always loved how you covered the cases you post, it’s so detailed, yet always leaves us wanting to discover more about the case! if you’re reading this have a great day:)) (yk we are lol)

Great exposition on this horrific tragedy. You really highlighted all of the issues involved with this case.

My dad was born in 1958 and music has always been his thing and he wore a brown studded dog collar at one point in his youth. So watching this on my phone with him listening in the background was nice as I could pause it at certain points and ask questions and get a first hand account of the times. For example he did remember the shop sex and the hype around it being an actual thing even though we’re from Nottingham and he’s only even been London in those years for protests and never visited the shop.

Ellie calling nancy a little shit twice in one minute had me rolling 😂

Nancy's childhood sounds so similar to mine. I was violent and manipulative as a child and was hospitalized at the age of nine. I finally got some of the help that I needed last year at age 17. I say some of the help I need, because mental health is an ongoing journey and I will need help throughout my entire life. I just wish Nancy was able to get the help I did

Amazing episode! I’ve always had a fascination with their relationship and how tragic it was. So informative and I can listen to you talk all day long ❤

this story is insane and so tragic. you explained it in such an interesting manner. Thanks eleanor!

Personally I think someone framed Sid especialy with how much they hated Nancy and they didn't exactly like Sid either so it was like killing two birds with one stone. I seriously doubt someone who is so out of it as Sid would be able to stab someone so many times if I'm being honest. Even if he was violent, that night he took so many sleeping pills so it just doesn't add up. Although I don't condone any of Sid and Nancy's actions, I feel so sad to hear about their childhood. It's so heartbreaking.

You know it’s a good day when Ellie uploads

I have always been fascinated with crime/drama from famous people. This video was really awesome.

Sid didn’t kill her. There’s no way he could have with the amount of drugs that were in his system.

Dang girl. I’ve been watching you for years and you have grown to be one of the VERY best ever. This was an AMAZING telling of this story. Absolutely WONDERFUL story telling! Wow! Great job, Beautiful!

1:22:02 I don’t think he killed her, I think he was passed out and she fought with someone and just left him to take the fall. He was in such turmoil after her death that I don’t think he did it. He drugged himself to death because he was heartbroken over her. The new GF was just a distraction which is why I think there isn’t a lot of info on her.

For the pregnancy thing, it means she was never pregnant. Hormones are still detected in the body for days after losing a pregnancy because it takes time for the body to return to normal. It’s heartbreaking that she had to go through that.

His name is John Lydon, not Lyndon. So happy to see someone covering this. Was huge into punk at the time. Thank you!

Since you mentioned Kurt Cobain in this, I'd love a video of a deep dive on his case 🫶

Tbh, I dont think that Sid killed her. He was so drugged up. idk if he could even have done it should he have been awake. We also know that Nancy was a very intense person who was pretty widely infamous and disliked.

My son has Pathological Demand Avoidance and listening to Nancy's story reminds me of life before we learned about my boy's diagnosis and how to properly support him. It's scary to think how easily he could have gotten to the point of threatening people with kn1ves, ruling the house and being admitted to a hospital. PDA parenting is a RIDE but the results are astounding. I wonder if Nancy would have had a different life path with today's support. 😔

Big compliment - you really told the story detailed and not just the clichés we normally hear

The HCG hormone is what they look for to confirm a pregnancy. It typically stays with a woman for 4-6 weeks after the birth. So Nancy wasn’t pregnant at 15 and didn’t need an abortion. 😢 48:13

With the depressed 9yo part I was diagnosed with chronic depression at 13 but had found that it really started at 7 yo, suicide was also never something I had heard anywhere or influenced in any way it’s just the way you think no matter your age, it’s crazy what you brain can do

Saying Sid deserves more moeny when dude couldn't even play BASS is wild to me? Like im so curious how that argument went

Girl you do such a great job researching for these videos! Theyre always so interesting

i always forget how young these two were when they died. she was 20 and he was 21. they barely lived

I don't know if I believe Sid killed Nancy. Also, I wonder why Sid's mother wasn't charged for administering the lethal dose to Sid??

I loved this video because I actually wrote my dissertation script on this case. a couple of the names and band facts were wrong but other than that brilliant work on such a mysterious case

I love how thorough you always are!

Ugh I’m so happy you’re covering this. I find it so weird that ppl still romanticize them, saying they want a nancy to their sid, or going as them for Halloween couples costumes.

19:43 i’ve been in this position as an educator (in 2020). one of the hardest conversations i’ve had to have with the child and with their parents. to hear a young child say they want to end their priceless life… puts a lot of things into perspective that’s for sure.

please do more videos like this relating to rock and roll , metal, bands, etc! i've been watching your videos for years ilysm

Really loved this one! Thanks Eleanore ❤

Been loving all your extra work Eleanor! Freaky Friday has been some really great added content for us ❤ thank you! Very excited to listen to this 😊 I have never heard about this case!

The way that you handle these topics and talk in these videos is always so kind and considerate of the victims. This is exactly how true crime should be 🧡

I not only love your true crime content but I also LOVE looking at what you put on your shelf 🥰 It's always so cute!!

Great video as usual, Eleanor! I never knew the story behind this. Having been born a few years later and never being into that kind of music or scene, I knew that "Sid and Nancy" meant toxic relationship, but never knew anything else (or thought to look it up). Such a sad story highlighting the dangers of untreated mental illness and the drug scene. And as usual, told with sensitivity and respect. Very well done!

So very well informed! I enjoy listening to all the little details you and your team have found out ❤

I'm so excited you're finally covering this case, and you covered it so well. I'm glad you went through everything and the back stories😁❤

This was bloody brilliant. Well done x

Thank you for covering this case!

So great to see this covered, and all the details you've included! Just a note, it's not John Lyndon, it's John Lydon...pronounced 'lie-don'.

It stung a little to hear Steven Tyler’s name being alleged to have sex with a child although he did adopt a young girl to be with her sexually bc she was too young to marry! It’s so very disappointing to learn these things about rock stars that we all love so much and so many people look up to!

Thank you for going into Sid's background with his mom. It drives me crazy when people blame Nancy for his heroin use. This is a great biography. Very different and better from the documentaries I've seen. Very well done! ❤

The difference with 1D fanfics is that instead of people wanting to date them’ it’s people wanting them to get together 💀

Love this iconic case, I have been waiting for you to cover it for years, ahhh I love your channel!!! ❤❤

I LOVE the way you handle these topics and how you make sure to warn at the start of videos. 💗

One of my fave videos of yours, really enjoyed it. Thanks! ❤

This was excellent research. Great job!

As a new subscriber, less than 24 hours, the way that you cover these cases with so much respect and in depth research is amazing for the true crime community

i'm so interested in this case! i'm so glad that you're covering it!!

Very glad you made this video I've always wanted to know more about the case

ahhh i love it when ellie uploads!! ive been in my crochet groove lately and i love putting on her videos while i just sit and crochet.