Has the Feminist Civil War alienated women? Does 4th wave feminism infantilize/weaken women?

Рет қаралды 37,425

4 жыл бұрын

[Recorded prior to the UK government's imposition of social distancing measures to combat the spread of coronavirus.] Is there "good" and "bad" feminism? According to today's "4th wave" feminists there is. They seem keen to shut down critical debate on certain issues (such as the #MeToo movement, gender pay gap and trans rights) -- even where those being shut down include leading figures in the traditional feminist movement (e.g. Germaine Greer, Julie Bindell etc.).
Traditional feminism sought to empower women to take control of their destiny, assert themselves and personally battle misogyny. Modern feminism, by contrast, seems to suggest that women are victims who need protections as they are incapable of defending or advancing their own interests. Does this mean that women are being infantilized, their agency to negotiate their social and sexual engagements removed?
Have today's "4th wave feminists" created a hostile environment which alienates the majority of women?
Joining Marc Sidwell on this week's #NCFCounterculture are 4 women champions of free speech who appear frequently on television and radio to debate and discuss current affairs:
* Emily Carver of the Institute of Economic Affairs.
* Claire Fox, founder of the Institute of Ideas and former M.E.P. for the Brexit Party.
* Lionel Shriver, novelist and journalist best known for her novel "We Need To Talk About Kevin", which one the Orange Prize in 2005.
* Ella Whelan assistant editor at spiked, specialising in the relationship between free speech, feminism and women's liberation.
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Пікірлер: 603

@HRPFayetteville 4 жыл бұрын

If any man told me he was a feminist I'd literally walk away

@OfirMusic 4 жыл бұрын

Ignore Phil, he suffers from advanced communism.

@farmbrough 4 жыл бұрын

It's either trying too hard or virtue signalling.

@YogGroove 4 жыл бұрын

Smart Gal.

@jon636374 4 жыл бұрын

I'd ask how the surgery went..

@farmbrough 4 жыл бұрын

Arguable. That was women's suffrage.

@HRPFayetteville 4 жыл бұрын

I've had more problems with bullies and coworkers and they were all woman since 3rd grade lol boys and men were never my worry

@jemr9332 4 жыл бұрын

Michelle Lynn: more than likely they were jealous and couldn't deal with your intelligence, independence, energy and attractive aura. Says more about them than you 😊

@burleybater 4 жыл бұрын

I think the political dissonance that this suggests comes from the fact that some females know how to navigate the world of boys and men quite well. And obviously there's a reason for that. They learned. Apparently this kind of knowledge is now frowned upon in certain circles. So bullies who can now hide in plain sight - makes one wonder who now needs protection from whom?

@rushelm8101 4 жыл бұрын

These 'Femfest' discussions, always centralize on how gender politics affects women. Men, good and bad, are disposable. If you are an observant human, you can reach no other conclusion.

@OfirMusic 4 жыл бұрын

Indeed, I couldn't watch it all. The most pampered, privileged creatures in biological history complaining.

@NutterButteromnomnom 4 жыл бұрын

@@OfirMusic it's fairly evident from the comment section that no one watched more than first 5 minutes

@biggsydaboss3410 4 жыл бұрын

They also get so much wrong about what men go through or what men think & feel. Example: I was pilloried for giving heartfelt advice to a young lady having issues regarding her self worth & how that manifests in her relationship. I said, "If your man fancies you, is turned on by you, wants to touch you & kiss you. Then that tells you everything about what he thinks of you. I'll be be honest with you, if you want to know how a man thinks, probably best you ask a man, rather than women". Oh did the women go insane of such statement. I found it all quite amusing, but it does show us that women struggle with basic concepts. A can't tell a woman how it feels like to get cramp during her period. Likewise she can't tell me what ball cramp feels like.

@shelleyphilcox4743 4 жыл бұрын

@@roas2 72.4% of working age women are in employment v 80.6% of men. Take into consideration maternity leave, childcare and elderly care and who generally does that in families. I dont think you can reasonably suggest that women are supported by men and mens taxes. Women are working in the economy, reproducing for the benefit of both sexes whilst taking all the physical risks and taking care of the vulnerable, who are all also of both sexes.

@williamwimbourne856 4 жыл бұрын

It was a rather dreary conversation, I didn't watch to the end.

@Fangface74 4 жыл бұрын

Interesting discussion, however there was no mention of biological reasons of difference; testosterone as a 'status seeking' hormone etc. We are our biology first and societal/cultural norms are wrapped around it.

@missybe3238 4 жыл бұрын

Very true! Why are women primary care givers? We are the ones who carry babies, we are the ones who feed the babies, yes we have a lot of technological advances that allows to detach from our babies so that we can be away and they can still survive but our bodies were made for that. We are primary caregivers because biologically that's what we are.

@jonnybgoode7742 4 жыл бұрын

@@missybe3238 the truth of the biological differences didnt hit me until my brother became a father. Before he was non chalant about work because he had what he needed and wanted. After, he's worked EVERY SINGLE HOUR that was afforded to him. Didnt matter how dog tired or sick he was you couldn't talk him out of it. The fuckers never taken a vacation outside of the few weeks that his factory is shut down for tooling. Even then, if they're running, he's there. Whenever it's time for school and the kids need shoes/clothes and he takes them shopping and they get to pick out anything they want be it expensive shoes or clothes he says, "this is why I do it."

@englishpayerofgermantaxes8186 4 жыл бұрын

Men and women are not the same: they will never be equal except in the sense of having equal legal rights before the law. At the moment laws and practices discriminate overwhelmingly against men

@Apollyon-sz9sn 4 жыл бұрын

Equal legal rights? a man is far more likely to get charged and sent to prison, as judges still don't like sending women to prison. Then there's family court, where they hold 100% of power, then the divorce and alimony courts are completely biased as well. What utter lies that women have it difficult with the law. Anybody with an ounce of logic knows it's the other way round completely.

@ericmorgan204 4 жыл бұрын

Apollyon 1975 you can whistle that again. A "Mens Strike for Equality with Women Under The Law" is well overdue.

@TheMelcho 4 жыл бұрын

@@ericmorgan204 It is already happening, men aren't going to college, many aren't launching, many are MGTOW whether they know it or not....

@jonnybgoode7742 4 жыл бұрын

@@Apollyon-sz9sn I think that's what was said.

@mgtowarena9636 4 жыл бұрын

@@Apollyon-sz9sn Thats what English payer of German taxes said.... "laws discriminate against men"

@1Mutton1 4 жыл бұрын

Most men know all of this. It's woman that need to be educated on reality. It's at least good to hear a reasonable narrative for a change.

@1Mutton1 4 жыл бұрын

@Phil no, no irony, the feminist ideology is really fucked up and delusional and I hear very few woman realising this or challenging it. Most just go along with it because on face value it benefits woman (it doesn't). It is howeber refreshing to hear a group of woman like this video who do actually get it.

@k_tess 4 жыл бұрын

The world constantly smashes men up against the wall. Each time the man, pieces himself back together. Faster, Stronger, Smarter, Better. Faster, Stronger, Smarter, Better. Faster, Stronger, Smarter, Better. Until either he or the wall breaks. Women in the past had their problems. But feminism has removed anything that would hurt them. They've never been broken. Or if they have it's over something stupid. Every burden they should have faced has been reallocated to someone else. Usually a man. So today's women are more akin to children. They have two choices for mates (females always get final say in mate selection) men who got sick of the game, dropped out, and regressed back into toddlers. Or men who didn't give up, and after countless cycles, lost their humanity. Those last ones are some of the coldest, cynical assholes to ever exist. And better times will NEVER come. Civilization will collapse first. Because for this boat to turn around, women will have to say, "I was wrong". And that's just impossible.

@woke2woke153 4 жыл бұрын

Both of my grandmothers were strong matriarchs and although both were very protective of their families they also were pretty impatient with female incautiousness. They'd protest , without necessarily genuinely meaning it, "You made your bed, now lie in it." The obvious message was: take responsibility for yourself. They definitely didn't feel sorry for themselves. They both felt equal or superior to my grandfathers in their own domains.

@jacobscrackers98 4 жыл бұрын

| last sentence And that's a good thing?

@woke2woke153 4 жыл бұрын

@@jacobscrackers98 I think your comment may have been clipped, so I didn't quite understand it. We're you asking about my last sentence in what I said?

@jacobscrackers98 4 жыл бұрын

@@woke2woke153 yes

@woke2woke153 4 жыл бұрын

@@jacobscrackers98 In their own domains and even in overlapping domains? Yes. It was a very good thing. It gave them value and self-worth.

@Benzknees 4 жыл бұрын

The delicious irony is that feminism has liberated men of any responsibilities, and condemned women to do all the work and childcare (or cat care).

@principleshipcoleoid8095 4 жыл бұрын

So, men can CHOOSE to not pay alimony? To see their children?

@Benzknees 4 жыл бұрын

Strelets Gleb - If they wish.

@principleshipcoleoid8095 4 жыл бұрын

@@Benzknees if men don't pay alimony, they get jailed.

@principleshipcoleoid8095 3 жыл бұрын

@@stinkystu1 do you think everyone know the laws? Also, what that women wears has nothing to do with that chance but walking dark alley ways is.

@valcaineaux7549 4 жыл бұрын

What about children? Why have them if you don't want to look after them and bring them up yourself? It is the best job in the world, it is rewarding, not always easy, and is so undervalued today.

@mariamurray457 4 жыл бұрын

The solution to "child care issues" - Stay at home and look after your children. It's called being a mother.

@Philiptanzer 4 жыл бұрын

@Orsen Carte You are literally describing the system before feminism. Women wanted more independence, perfectly understandable, and that meant money of their own, again understandable, but no one took a second to think what doubling the potential labour force would do to the ability for one person to "breadwin" enough for a family. Low wages and childcare costs are literally the fruits of the feminists' labour. I'm not sure it is necessarily a bad thing, but it is weird to see feminist women complain about these things when they asked for them.

@Philiptanzer 4 жыл бұрын

@Orsen Carte The list of "children's needs" is vast, I'm not even sure what putting them first would mean. It is all about reasonable balance, do children need time with their mother or money? They need both and how much of each is not something we can enforce (nor should we). How much time a mother spends making money for her child and how much time she spends with her child is probably best left up to each household to decide for themselves.

@mariamurray457 4 жыл бұрын

@Orsen Carte Sadly one of the many disastrous effects of feminism was to "unman" the man. Choose a partner for life, a real man, who wants nothing more than to be the protector and provider. This is his role. Feminism fights against nature and in the end nature will triumph.

@Philiptanzer 4 жыл бұрын

@Orsen Carte Whining about human rights when there is no food on the table doesn't get you very far. Having a full time, stay at home mum is a luxury, and some people cannot afford it. Now we may wish it wasn't so but that does not change reality, we need to work within the bounds of what is possible (labelling something a human right and screeching about it is what idiot leftists do).

@mariamurray457 4 жыл бұрын

@mikeonmindy I would agree that men have always had it harder than women. I wouldn't call it "oppression" myself as I don't think that traditionally women have sought to oppress men but yes, they (you) have suffered and sacrificed much throughout the centuries for our sake and the sake of the next generation.

@vjab1108 4 жыл бұрын

No more NORMAL no more COMMON SENSE.

@biggsydaboss3410 4 жыл бұрын

@Phil And communism will never work. It goes against our basal instincts. Which is why communist states had to have re-education camps & Lysenkoism led directly to the Holodomor.

@lolzhammer8281 4 жыл бұрын

"Feminism isn't about equality, it's about power." -Jess Phillips, MP

@asura8495 4 жыл бұрын

" 'Feminism isn't about equality, it's about power.' -Jess Pillips, MP" -LolzHammer, yt user

@HRPFayetteville 4 жыл бұрын

Woman only want the board jobs they sure arent lining up at the plumber job What r we gonna do tell all black churches they gotta mix all woman biz have to get half men too??? This works both ways u know

@TheMelcho 4 жыл бұрын

I was working a construction job a couple winters ago, night shift, 3 in the morning in the freezing rain on the water front, 12 hours shifts over Christmas holidays.....I looked up and saw a crew of scaffold builders six stories up in the air and open wind building scaffold....they make pretty good money, you don't even need to speak English or have a HS diploma to do it...guess how many women there were in the crew? Not a lot....must be "oppression"...

@raywelsh5335 4 жыл бұрын

Walking into a group of girls/women as a boy/man is about as intimidating as it gets. Women can and do destroy men just with a glance or one word response. Have any of you been near a hen night - Not for the faint hearted.

@IntrovertedE 4 жыл бұрын

Not a gay man. We dominate all. :P

@biggsydaboss3410 4 жыл бұрын

That's because it's still deemed socially unacceptable to punch them. If we had true equality, then women wouldn't be so quick to insult someone or rip apart verbally. Just like we men are hesitant to do so. We know what the consequences are. Women are still protected by their vaginas.

@claudeusgothicus6453 4 жыл бұрын

@@biggsydaboss3410 - Personally I feel any woman that physically attacks a man deserves to get it right back... unfortunately like you said, the law doesn't see it that way. However, no man should ever be intimidated by any woman, especially when you realize that despite what they say, or even try to dish out, in truth they actually do care when men find them unattractive or call them ugly, or especially call them fat etc. They're just better at not showing it.

@andiethewriter 3 жыл бұрын

Walking past a group of men at night requires far more guts. Whatever a hen party may or may not say, they are not going to gang-rape or kill you.

@shophet125 4 жыл бұрын

Is fire hot? Is water wet? The answers to these questions and more await.

@WaitingForTheHook 4 жыл бұрын

Fire is hot, but water is not wet.

@Benzknees 4 жыл бұрын

You’re not channelling your inner feminist. The questions should be how do I feel about fire and water, and how the terms ‘hot and wet’ are clearly routed in the misogynistic, paternalistic objectification of women and their use should immediately be reported to the touchy feely police for a fair and balanced trial by media.

@HRPFayetteville 4 жыл бұрын

No one ever talks about all the men related to the first trailblazers I took womans history and the constant in every story was a man who caught alot of crap to support these woman it was the fathers the brothers the uncles who supported woman these ladies had passion and drive and the men in their life loved them... it wasnt all men dominating woman

@fammader96 4 жыл бұрын

6:25 and then 34:00 they are very confused. I don't get it why so many people believe that all men treat all men fair und never ignore, talk over or mansplain to another man. That are human treats.

@flat5sharp11 4 жыл бұрын

*Even* with this topic, the framing of the question is: Too much feminism - women most affected? You couldn't make it up.

@remkojerphanion4686 4 жыл бұрын

flat5sharp11: My thoughts exactly!

@Apollyon-sz9sn 4 жыл бұрын

Girls going round in fear of being a victim? My God how pussified this world has become. I blame the helicopter parenting.

@myla6135 4 жыл бұрын

Claire's point that we are giving children nightmares instead of soothing them and helping them to grow up is so true. It does seem that people are more frightened these days and taking a lot longer to grow up. Some, I fear, will never grow up.

@kbeetles 4 жыл бұрын

Amazing! Apparently we still have not talked enough about feminism..... the rights of women..... the equality of women....well, sisters, carry on, I am off into the garden!!

@francotron2000 4 жыл бұрын

Lionel Shriver = Female version of Harrison Ford

@burleybater 4 жыл бұрын

Speaking as a......man (and whose "skin in the game" and issues and consequences are largely moot at this point in my life) I wish to state the obvious. That going forward, men and women have to find some way to get on (to quote Douglas Murray's quote awhile back, coming from an anonymous Frenchwoman.) I truly believe it. It is far too important for the ongoing successful future of the human race. Some rather small but not insignificant percentage of the race cares about other things, and bless them for their concerns, but that they should run the entire show is an absolute farce. The conventional model is not about to go away anytime soon. To attempt to eradicate this model and replace it with chaos and mayhem is the equivalent of an inheritance of the wind. No more. The lives of the vast majority of people on the planet are hardly political. This vast majority have not spent their sweat and endured their hardships in order to suffer the tyranny of better ideas seemingly hatched in hallowed halls by the privileged and fortunate few (many who for some astounding reason, do not appear to be capable of recognizing their own superior chances in life.) I fear that intelligence squared or any other intellectual pursuits will ultimately fail to resolve this problem. For they always have, and always will represent a tiny minority of the human race. The majority will no doubt, get on with it, and not necessarily to our liking. But that majority lurks like tigers in the forest, like Piranha in the Amazon, like shifting tectonic plates over which mere intelligentsia have no more control than a butterfly in a hurricane. Notwithstanding the efforts and expression of this most excellent panel, attracted me like a moth to a flame and I was not disappointed. Carry on, women. It is a good fight.

@marcusallen1567 4 жыл бұрын

Yes motherhood is a beautiful responsibility

@alanlight7740 4 жыл бұрын

28:56 - being socialized at the age of 14 or 15 to be afraid of men as potential predators? LOL - that isn't happening at the age of 14 or 15. It's more like the age of 4 or 5, and it's been that way for 40 years.

@HRPFayetteville 4 жыл бұрын

Omg woman want to raise their own kids What's wrong with being howled at makes me feel good actually so sick of these fake outrage crap this all cheapens real harrassment

@nicholasbrassard3512 4 жыл бұрын

good to hear that not all women take offense to it, unfortunately guys are getting more nervous about approaching women lest it be construed as harassment

@bananewane1402 4 жыл бұрын

Makes me uncomfortable, the thought that someone who just saw me on the street is thinking about having sex with me. I don’t like it. I want to be left alone.

@norawheeler2555 3 жыл бұрын

@@bananewane1402 You are not guaranteed the right to be "comfortable". Do

@johnhouldingloyal 4 жыл бұрын

Child care is a problem but wouldn't it be better if one wage in a household was good enough for people to live on. Then people could make the decision that one could stay home or even both could work if they wish. The way the system is set up is that both parents need to work to have a adequate standard of living.

@christinemurray1444 4 жыл бұрын

With the nearly full incorporation of women into the workplace it's just the natural state of affairs that our former niche as homemakers is worth about a full salary. You do away with the concept of family and breadwinner through full Hayekian individualisation and the resulting tradeoff is this. Probably only a minority of women should be working full time into their thirties and forties for society to be more harmonious. Otherwise we will have to have pro mothers or keep importing mothers and children from abroad, which has long term consequences as well.

@tmaxyb 4 жыл бұрын

My daughter's both had their first child in their thirties and I have never seen them so utterly happy. One of my daughter's, a woman who has a degree in archeology worked in some interesting jobs etc said to me that all her working life she was looking for her direction in life and since she has had her baby boy now knows exactly where she wants to be.

@richardblinn4811 4 жыл бұрын

Still lots of feminist delusional thinking here!

@sheynj1 4 жыл бұрын

True.

@darknewt9959 4 жыл бұрын

I literally do not want to hear another word from a woman.

@Apollyon-sz9sn 4 жыл бұрын

The paddock girls want to thank you feminists for losing them their jobs, and the boxing round card girls also. See how damaging feminists are to their sister women!

@halofreak1990 4 жыл бұрын

Meanwhile, other women continue to whore themselves out, and that's fine with them. Like, WTF? Last time I checked, paddock girls were paid for their jobs, just like anyone else. We're also still seeing scarcely clad women on magazine covers. Rules for thee, but not for me. And they're not even consistent rules to boot.

@Nightdare 4 жыл бұрын

How does the word "emancipated woman" sound for all those that wish to distance themselves from the overburdened word "feminist"? It also puts forth a challenge for themselves, and a message to their environment Hell, it's what I always use when somebody points to a woman needing help: "They've been emancipated for decades now, they don't need my help"

@hariseldon3786 4 жыл бұрын

Compassion over common sense - "Bring all citizens home". Says it all. Feelings over facts and logic.

@myla6135 4 жыл бұрын

"Women are expected to provide the childcare", said by the woman sitting next to Lionel. It's often said as though providing childcare was a terrible imposition. Most women want to look after their children. It's a small vocal minority, mostly those women in the top 1% of women earners who make a fuss about it. Probably because they want to make sure they get that 20% pay-rise so they can earn £1m like the chap sitting in the flash office next door. A bit like those BBC newscasters who are very, very feminist. The rest of us understand the differences between men and women and we are grown up enough to make decisions about our own lives and how to manage our responsibilities to our children, our husbands, partners and our employers. I'm Lionel's and Claire's age. I may have had a bit of discrimination chucked at me back in the 70s, but not much. Since then zero. I was able to achieve what I wanted by working at it and not asking for favours or behaving like a victim and/or a child. The thing I believe is the most important is to conduct my life as an adult: taking responsibility, dealing with the consequences of my decisions, sorting things out where I can, living with some of the things I can't. If a man (or woman) behaves badly towards me, I handle it. If they still carried on and I found myself unable to deal with it (hasn't happened yet) I know there's a lot of support out there for women and men.

@myla6135 4 жыл бұрын

@Kyle Rook You make a good and valid point. My generalised point was about bad behaviour in people but you are absolutely right to highlight this particular anomaly between the treatment of men and women.

@sneezyfido 4 жыл бұрын

The other side to the accusation "women are expected to care for the children" lies in assignment of child custody. That is predominantly to the mothers based on feminist doctrine and supported by feminist organizations. Feminists are unable to figure out what they want to say. Though once you mute the words, the movement is actually very coherent: Men must be kicked while they're down.

@techlord5573 4 жыл бұрын

I watched a older feminist and a younger feminist get into a fight about equal pay and the older feminist said start doing dangerous jobs that man get High pay for and the younger feminist said that's not the point. I busted out laughing because most women will not do those.

@paulukjames7799 4 жыл бұрын

I wonder if there is a correlation between new order feminists and extinction rebellion types, our educational system has got a lot to answer for maybe the tax payer could get a refund.

@billybigballs5026 4 жыл бұрын

As always, Ella misses the point on abortion. Women have rights with regards to abortion that men do not have, how can that be an example of a right skewed in favour of men?? Typical poorly thought out argument that relies on misunderstood and misplaced victimhood.

@markroberts6403 4 жыл бұрын

Ella consistently writes articles about how women should be able to kill unborn babies because they failed to take responsibility for their own sexuality and actions - even in an age when female contraceptives are freely available and even in some cases free of charge to them, mainly paid for out of taxes paid by men.

@markroberts6403 4 жыл бұрын

@Phil You might as well have a Nazi symbol for your avatar. Pardon me, if I don't take too seriously, anything that is said/ written by a follower of the most blood soaked and tyranical ideology the modern world has ever seen.

@leonie3317 4 жыл бұрын

Phil why are you using being gay as a derogative?

@leonie3317 4 жыл бұрын

Phil you looked like you were using being gay as a negative to me 👍

@shelleyphilcox4743 4 жыл бұрын

@@markroberts6403 As over 74% of working age women work, and about 80% of men, it is hardly the case that its men's tax paying for it. Male contraceptives are also available, in the UK can also be obtained free at clinics. In every case of pregnancy a man chose not to use contraception or his contraception failed him. Every man has a personal choice available to abstain, use condoms, or opt for vasectomy. Abortion is relied upon by men who dont want a child, just as it is by women, when the contraception used by either party fails. Men are lucky enough not to actually have to physically go through it though. I'd be interested in a survey of how many men, given the choice of raising a child alone from the moment of birth, would choose it if the woman didnt want to know. There are some, I have no doubt, but I suspect the majority wouldn't choose it.

@jonjon738 4 жыл бұрын

I thought I'd turned on to a WI board meeting 🤦‍♀️😂🤣

@Doutsoldome 4 жыл бұрын

Every and any right or protection that women might need could and should be dealt with within the larger umbrela of humanism. There is no excuse to invoke the concept of feminism, other than to promote a particular ideology -- a _political_ ideology -- and all the extra baggage that comes with it. In fact, if some problem has to be analysed through a particular ideological lens to be even recognized as such, that's not a very good sign. Real problems tend to have a more robust nature than that.

@sheynj1 4 жыл бұрын

Granted. One point not really that touched upon are the worldviews that collide with Leftist Feminism: the conservative worldview. Feminism is itself shaped and controlled in academia, politics and in the society overwhelmingly by Leftists. It is a Leftist project, this war on men. Who got the least input on this panel? The self-drescribed conservative, naturally. By nature, the Leftist is a strident activist that wants to transform society to their liking, ultimately by any means necessary. The average conservative just wants to be left alone to prosper in the ways that they can- and not to shove change and to ruin formulas that work in society. The Left is synonymous with State power- and conservatives aren't(certainly in the West). Using the State to batter their ideological opponents is the biggest goal of the Left. And it's deadly to healthy societies.

@mpa8336 4 жыл бұрын

Almost all the increase in child poverty in the US since the 70's is due to family breakdown. P. 192, Sex Matters, Mona Charen. Children of divorce are more likely to live in poverty, smoke, get pregnant as teens, fall behind in math, get sick, get divorced, and die young. P. 185, same

@ricoletocubano 4 жыл бұрын

Throughout human history MEN and WOMEN have struggle together in the last 25 hundred years, twice we have built incredibly prosperous societies. During the Roman Empire period women obtain many rights and as the society got overly feminine, they were conquer by a more masculine group. Today we're at the same point. The reality is that no matter how develop we get and how many laws we put in place to protect women, many men will break those laws, to access what women have between their legs. Today as we have been feminize, quickly a more masculine group (Muslims) are filling the vacuum.

@claudeusgothicus6453 4 жыл бұрын

I guess it's actually true what they say about history repeating itself when you don't learn from it...

@andrewwainwright1724 4 жыл бұрын

Short answer is yes. Good night!

@Culbokie_croft 4 жыл бұрын

What is the panels view on Alex Salmond case and political power in a small country where the courts and media news outlets have been tamed.

@idleobserver7211 4 жыл бұрын

The out of touch Olympics.

@Dragonblaster1 4 жыл бұрын

Erin Pizzey founded the first ever refuge for battered wives in Chiswick, and went on to found others. However, today, her name has been removed from the dedication plaque on the Chiswick refugee, and she is despised and hated by feminists. Her crime? When she heard the women discussing violent things they had done to their husbands, and she recommended that there be a refuge for battered husbands also. That's it. That has made her _persona non grata_ throughout the feminist movement.

@timothyofcox2450 4 жыл бұрын

27:50 "undermining agency", yep, send that to the APA for data analysis on "toxic femininity"... Whats that? There isn't one? sssstraaaange...

@FACEandLMS 4 жыл бұрын

Name the gender that says: "No! This is not the equality that I wanted!" when equality is actually applied.

@thehoodservative 4 жыл бұрын

She, her and them

@Pal.Cockrum 4 жыл бұрын

You only ever here feminists crying there aren’t more women CEO’s but you’ll never see one of them pushing a man out of the way to clear a jobby from a blocked drain.

@th3n3wk1dd 4 жыл бұрын

Believe it or not Lionel Shriver has the main point at the beginning. If feminism has different definitions depending on the person who uses it and everyone's "Feminism" is different, then the label is useless. Everyone can just say "well my feminism is different" and feminism can never be held accountable to the actions of its claims. Labels are important as they are a sort of shortcut in describing in "short hand" what our belief system is. Does that mean you are 100% in accordance of what the entire theory teaches? no, but you have enough of your beliefs lined up with the theory that you chose to identify and use the label. Just like Christianity has "many different branches" so does Feminism. but BOTH have a core belief of which we can call "The Trunk". For Christianity, it's the belief in Christ and that he died for our sins. Then there are branches after that. For Feminism, that trunk is the belief in Patriarchy. while that definition may vary slightly between "feminisms", patriarchy is the reason all feminisms exist. As you can believe in equality without believing in patriarchy and to find a feminist that doesn't believe in Patriarchy is like finding a Christian that doesn't believe in Christ.

@timothyofcox2450 4 жыл бұрын

How about you make it semi exciting and get a female mens rights activist (the women you feminists call a "pick me") on the panel? No, not really interested in what they have to say? Lightweight Journalism 101. I thought our universities spat out better than this.

@christinemurray1444 4 жыл бұрын

Men have a parenthood gap. A huge one. They are considered expendable as parents and institutions dismiss their role as a parent very lightly, ruling systematically against them.

@richardcracknell7895 4 жыл бұрын

It's bad for every body especially women.

@powerbite925 4 жыл бұрын

On this panel Ella Whelan, the young girl in the blue, seems singularly deluded and full of her own opinions. She's almost the poster child of this new generation of younger "empowered" (but also naive) women.

@HRPFayetteville 4 жыл бұрын

Dont u think theres a reason why woman have the uterus it's not to pass ur kid to some daycare worker for 10 hours a day nor is it for ur man to not want to provide for his family today's feminist doesnt want woman to raise their own kids it's disgusting really and even if u wanna do something besides the fulltime job of a home and kids today ur able to start a small biz etc why do people wanna work for a company that takes 40 plus hours away from ur kids many woman dont and nothing wrong with it and no one showed be shamed for wanting it

@andrewdock7288 4 жыл бұрын

Julia Beck speaking at the heritage foundation (conservative group) a homosexual woman in America who has moved to the right has spoken of a generation of homosexual women lost to gender dysphoria.

@robinthrush9672 4 жыл бұрын

A better term for the kind of "feminism" the last two women are looking for is "gender egalitarian" or just "egalitarian". Also, current feminism is advocating for expressing emotion in men while berating them for showing any emotion. Remember the "men's tears" coffee mugs?

@defendliberty1289 4 жыл бұрын

Other debate topics: Is water liquid? Is the Pope Catholic?

@DieFlabbergast 4 жыл бұрын

Do bears shit in the woods?

@pneron2032 4 жыл бұрын

Well, the current pope is not Catholic.

@AnotherGlenn 4 жыл бұрын

Given that our opinions are engineered by public relations experts in the media and whomever it is that designs curriculums, could it be that feminism is designed to keep men and women apart as much as possible? We hear about how there are too many humans, and we know that the bigger-world-war business model broke down at the end of the second world war. Does this mean there is a motive among those that govern to reduce the birth rate by any means possible? If so, then feminism is their baby. It is not women taking it upon themselves to free themselves from the tyranny of men. That is a brainwash! Am I to believe that there is a conspiracy among men to subjugate women? Nonsense, the conspiracy is among those that govern to drive men and women apart. Those that govern are using psychological warfare against you. There is an infamous quote by public relations guru, Edward Bernays, that might shed some light. "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organised habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society...". Google it. BTW, I think the entire world is governed from Switzerland or thereabouts. Switzerland, the neutral country that probably controlled the world wars. Switzerland, the country that educated Kim Jong un and sold nuclear reactors to North Korea through their automation company, ABB, while Don Rumsfeld was on the board of directors. The war is against the masses of the entire world, and it is almost entirely a psychological war. Feel the weight of the huge brain in your head.

@user-um2bv1om6y 4 жыл бұрын

Yes. We were all happy before NEO feminism - I'm female btw

@leec8988 4 жыл бұрын

I really liked the panel and found it interesting. Though I would be curious to hear a more in-depth discussion on why access to abortion is a women’s only issue. It is not that I disagree necessarily as I don’t see how it can be anything other than a woman’s decision to make. That being said this is also one of the few instances where another person is denied a say in a decision but then held financially responsible for that decision. I would be curious to hear peoples opinions on why that should or should not be the case.

@SpaceMidget 4 жыл бұрын

Ella Whelan mentioning Faces in Essex - mind blown. (It's shutdown now by the way)

@lankystudent 4 жыл бұрын

Is this guy related to Peter? His mannerisms are so similar!!

@martyadamski6920 4 жыл бұрын

Great video. Refreshing dialogue.

@skips7794 4 жыл бұрын

men are indeed rational and cold, change my mind

@sneezyfido 4 жыл бұрын

Men are conditioned to hide and swallow their feelings, leading to a cold outward presentation. The extremely high numbers in depression and suicides show that men do, in fact, have feelings, and that society blatantly disregarding and shaming them has deeply harmful effects.

@niceviewoverthere4463 4 жыл бұрын

A decent discussion between four clever women. I'm 63 (retired) now and have three comments to make: i) throughout my career, I honestly believe women were treated equally in promotion panels where I worked (obviously if they could commit to be at work 8 hours every weekday and the odd week away from home here and there); ii) Claire seemed to have excellent arguments as usual; and iii) her boots are lovely (tongue in cheek)!

@sheynj1 4 жыл бұрын

And can you be sure the women in your experience weren't favoured in some way because they were women by discrimination against men to their benefit? Every non-white person, every woman has to ask this question: did they get to where they are in the job market/career from discrimination and not merit? Unfortunately, that has to be accounted for. Image over substance, and immutable characteristics over merit. Poison.

@myla6135 4 жыл бұрын

@@sheynj1 That's an interesting point you raise. I'm the same age as the OP and my experience is the same. It may have happened. I worked in one of those industries that was male dominated. Looking back, I can't rule out that I got the job because they were trying to tick some box. What I do know is that once in the job I didn't do anything to try and change the environment ie didn't make a fuss about being a woman. I did my level best to fit in around the men. I think I succeeded. I left having made many friends. I distinctly got the impression that I ran a very good department. I was recruited to head it up and all my staff were men and it stayed that way. I wasn't a walk over though. Where I thought my staff or my boss needed to hear something, they heard it. And all the issues I raised were business related. I never wanted to nor had to raise any issues about being female.

@philipryan25 4 жыл бұрын

Feminism is about class privilege and intitlement ♀️ 👸

@maxprivus 4 жыл бұрын

The seachange in Feminism can probably be attributed, at least in part, to its institutionalization in Academia. That's what seems to have inspired such a heavily theoretic orientation, motivated the adaptation of conflict and Feminist critical theory along with the hyper-focus on language, subjectivism and rigid identity. orientation as well as sophistry as a mode of argumentation. And with Academia as a primary site for its development, there was a shift in focus towards a narrower cohort of women ( affluent, white, formally educated ) and the need to appeal to young college aged women - hence the emphasis on self esteem, body image, sexual conflict between students and a more propagandistic approach for recruitment purposes.

@yamahantx7005 4 жыл бұрын

I have never walked into a room and thought "I am equal, don't treat me as inferior." When I walk in on my aunts making xmas dinner, i shut my mouth and follow orders. When i walk into a room of PhD physicists, I click through my presentation and try to make it concise. The real issue may not be a superiority complex in men, but an inferiority complex in women. There are cases where I'm outclassed, and cases where I outclass. None of it makes any difference in proving my worth.

@HondoTrailside 4 жыл бұрын

If I went out with steel toed shoes and kicked anyone's ass, I would be arrested for assault with a deadly weapon. Sister be crazy.

@dissonantiacognitiva7438 4 жыл бұрын

She is right about the reproductive rights, lots of discrimination, woman can abort, men are stuck with 18 years of child support pending on the woman's decision

@Ellensai 4 жыл бұрын

In the work place you dont even need to touch a knee or a shoulder of a woman to be accused of sexual harassment. She can make an advance on a man, be rejected, take offence and make a sexual harassment claim to her boss and he'll be fired, no evidence required. Every guy in the work place is a false claim away from loosing their job.

@sumthingwickedly 2 жыл бұрын

i got whistled at the other day highlight of my day lol and i'm a kickboxer

@motinuppi 4 жыл бұрын

What a shockingly good conversation. Put these women in charge of feminism!

@Tvwatcher341 4 жыл бұрын

When I saw the tile and it's about Feminism I instantly thought of them as an enemy. Not just aganist men it's the country our society and children.

@andrewdock7288 4 жыл бұрын

Why do English men like the male presenter in this clip exhibit a cultural cringe towards 'women's Issues'. Conservative men in American and European men are far more assertive.

@melissajones5985 4 жыл бұрын

Let's do this once a month, what do you say? What a wonderful discussion that ended way too quickly

@GamingBear_Q_E_D 4 жыл бұрын

As a trans woman with a penis i fully support the sisterhood & want all women to succeed in whatever we desire to do :)

@robskalas 4 жыл бұрын

This is such a great, refreshing conversation!

@pauls2876 4 жыл бұрын

I feel like they pick up on some of the genuinely serious issues regarding women's wellbeing but then disregarded that in their final thoughts?

@morriganmhor5078 4 жыл бұрын

I think, in opposition to what was said, that not everybody could be real CEO or whatever he/she wishes to be doesn´t mean that such human being does have necessary abilities.

@bart797979 4 жыл бұрын

I didn't know people still cared tbh

@sheynj1 4 жыл бұрын

The Achilles heel for Feminism more often than not is: Motherhood. Let a woman choose and prioritise having several children at the expense of a career and I'll show you a range of reactions from Feminists from disgust, pity to disappointment- oh.... and envy. A woman that can show as her life achievement the successful raising of well-adjusted children is seen by Feminists as at best 'partially' admirable and at worst a failure for not achieving anything in the world outside the nursery. Least convincing in her arguments? Whelan. The best: Shriver. To young men in particular- to engage with her generation is a minefield that can have devastating legal and career/job costs that can ruin him early in life: no wonder many young men are hesitant to marry or even get too close to a woman. The last 50 years of Feminism has seen the Family/Divorce Courts destroy their fathers and uncles. The MGTOW movement is a problem that we need to examine closely if we want to repair the damaged relations between men and women. Unlike the destructive tendencies of institutional Feminism we, as healthy cultures, should want to emphasize family(and therefore a future for our culture) and maximum cooperation between men and women instead of the Sexual Civil War that Feminism has been fighting for half a century. Whelan's generation is a product, right from kindergarten, of the worst of this toxic ideology that is Feminism. One last comment: who has the least input here? A self-declared conservative. Colour me surprised.

@peps7721 4 жыл бұрын

Yes is the answer. But what a great panel though.

@andrewcarter7260 4 жыл бұрын

Have you ever been in a group of women at a social or business event. They are quite happy to exclude others of either gender. they learn the skills in high school and many keep practicing social exclusion throughout life.

@MajesticDemonLord 4 жыл бұрын

The lady talking from around 4:00 "Women don't have the same Reproductive rights as men" - You are correct, Women have *some* reproductive rights, whereas Men have *no* reproductive rights. "Men are mean to Women" - Have you seen how Men interact with each other?!? Compared the behavior that we have amongst ourselves, we are downright chivalrous towards Women and yet, they still get upset. I personally think this is a fundamental difference in mindset and Masculine culture vs Feminine Culture - and yes, some of it will be learned behavior - but every society has a concept of 'Ribbing on the new guy' - And most of it stems from the idea of a barrier to entry (in the form of a Test) into the Club - the question being asked is 'Are you going to be able to do what we need you to do, when things go bad?' Everything she mentions - not being heard in the boardroom, not being at the top - Well, if you want it, fight for it - it's the rules by which we expect Men to abide by, so why should you be any different? The problem is, you don't see the struggles Men undergo for recognition and respect of their peers, you only see the end result.

@aeriel.oceanoflove 4 жыл бұрын

I really enjoyed this discussion. Thanks for sharing. I appreciated the closing statements especially. If feminism was more like this, it would be more popular.

@katking6820 4 жыл бұрын

wish these women were more common they’re so reasonable

@richardhumphreys8662 4 жыл бұрын

Another excellent discussion. Thank you all very much.

@albertogutierrez9734 4 жыл бұрын

It is destructive. I have never heard a feminist expressing the importance of childbirth, motherhood, rearing children, and creating and supporting healthy relationships with men. It is awful.

@ShunyamNiketana 4 жыл бұрын

How hopeful to hear younger women joining two from my generation to make the same or similar critique. The "retrograde" values of 4th wave feminism seem to stem, at least in part, from how easy life has become. With so much automation and convenience, they expect their demands and gripes to be appeased, even though all the hard legal work has already been done for them and all the policies support them, tilting the playing field in their favor. It's become a "the WiFi is so damn slow" feminism that forms weird alliances with real oppressors in different garb.

@PAVANZYL 4 жыл бұрын

I came here because I saw Lionel Shiver. Is she single? I can get a divorce...

@jimluebke3869 4 жыл бұрын

33:40 -- Both women AND MEN could use assertiveness training. There was a man at Google who tried to make this point, but he was fired before anyone realized what he was actually saying. His name is James Damore, you may have heard of him.

@claudeusgothicus6453 4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, my partner told me about him and how he was a misogynist yadayada I spent a lot of time reading everything related that was out there in order to make the argument that it was BS. The thing that sucked was that in the end, he pulled out of the lawsuit against google which was really disappointing.

@standauphin1592 4 жыл бұрын

This was very interesting

@mc.8391 Жыл бұрын

why do I get the feeling that none of those ladies have got children..... maybe I am wrong ?

@leomoran142 4 жыл бұрын

If women were getting paid less for the same work, then their employers would not employ men at all, because doing so would be eating into their profits. Then again, if the employers only employed women, their revenues would drop sharply because generally men are more willing to work more hours, and are less accepting of substandard work.

@Apollyon-sz9sn 4 жыл бұрын

So true lionel, am 45 and have not met a woman yet who gave not told me they have been raped or abused. Every date I go on I can bet my bottom dollar, that they confide in me that they were in a "abusive relationship".

@joanofarc2254 3 жыл бұрын

Why is it that when men fight for a cause there is no label put on them. But there is a label for everything a woman does

@Apollyon-sz9sn 4 жыл бұрын

There should be more kick ass women in films, cuz you only have Superwoman Batwoman Captain marvel Ripley from aliens O'connor from terminator Lara Croft from tomb raider Supergirl The new "batman" The red witch Black widow Hela from thor ragnarock Valkyrie from Thor films Angelina Jolie in many films. Amazonians from superwoman. And many many more......

@AnnBurgess00 4 жыл бұрын

Hard to concentrate on what they are saying when they are sitting so close to one another - yet talking about Coronavirus so they didn’t record it before social distancing was required.

@williamschlass4598 4 жыл бұрын

Violence and crime will never be completely eradicated without a simultaneous eradication of all of our liberties. Security and liberty are always inversely correlated and the challenge of any civilization is striking the optimal balance between the two. Third and fourth wave feminism, however, seem to want maximum liberty and security for all women at the cost of the liberty and security of all men.