That’s awesome! I am glad this helped you out! Thanks for the comment!

Started the MDS delete on my brother's hemi last night. Glad I watched this video. When I get the valve covers on I'm going to do a compression test on all cylinders just so I don't have to backtrack. Thanks for the video.

There are small things people do with Tow/Haul mode and such that people claim with turn off ads while driving. You can also turn it off with a tuner, in my case the cam was already damaged, so I did the delete while in there.

A Pulsar in line engine tuner gives the option to turn off tat 4cylinder option and it just plugs straight in

I Have an in-line engine tuner that turns it off but it was not cheap (Pulsar)

There are easy ways to disable it such as tow/haul or using the gear limiter. However, the main issue with doing that is that it doesn't address the oiling issue, especially at idle. By removing the solenoids, it increases the oil flow and pressure to the lifters 100% of the time. With the mds, the higher pressure is only applied to the lifters during mds activation which is what causes them to work.

@@secretdad544 l

Thanks for the feedback, multiple others have stated having the same issue as well, so I am glad that you got something from it!

It's because when you disable the MDS, the lifter ports with the MDS lifters are now not pressurized causing poor lifter/roller lubrication and rubes down the cam and can cause a bent pushrod.....

Thanks for the info! That’s good to know!

How come no check engine light for a misfire when this happens??

I hope it was helpful.

@@wheelinoutwest It was, I’ve been avoiding newer Mopar gas engines for a while because of the horrific reputation of MDS so I stuck with Diesels. But I wanted a lighter commuter and heard you could delete MDS. No one else covered the lessons learned with this swap. So once again thanks!

Thanks for the comment!

Thanks for sharing, I agree they are a good motor.

the new RT Durango with Tow N Go package can tow 8700 Pounds

I have a 07 also I'm slowly working on

I have a 09 ram 1500 5.7 over 300000 never had a bolt turned on it.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback!

Thanks!

Thanks for watching!

@@wheelinoutwest your welcome very much

Nice, good luck with your project, I wouldn’t hesitate doing it again, if I found another hemi that needed it.

Thanks, glad it was helpful!

Thanks for Sharing, increased oil changes can never hurt.

@@frivera735 To be clear, you have a misfire, and you are planning to just do the tuner, or the entire delete kit. The reason I ask, if you have a misfire, you may already have to do mechanical work, the cam may be damaged. I change oil by the manufacturers recommendations, but changing it early can never hurt anything.

It's because when you disable the MDS, the lifter ports with the MDS lifters are now not pressurized causing poor lifter/roller lubrication and rubes down the cam and can cause a bent pushrod.....

Been using Amsoil Signature 0w -20 and found it runs well with high oil pressure Oil was expensive so going to run out to 20,000 km and do An oil sample Test kit (komatsu do them for $40 they analyse the oil for contaminants) I fitted the hellcat high volume oil pump and I feel from the engine lack of valve train noise it’s still lubricating well after 10,000 country highway kilometres changing every 5000km is a good idea but I am going to use top quality Amsoil signature low viscosity oil and just see how far I can safely go before a hint of valve train noise or 20,000km whichever comes first

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for watching!

Thanks!

Thanks for the comment!

Yes, I read that. That disabling MDS keeps RPMS higher offering more lube to the lifters thus no lifter failure. I also read that MOST of the lifter damage is caused by idling for long periods of time.

My Uncle works for Ford but they do work on police Chargers all the time as well. He told me they had many lifter failures and cam wear (due to idling so often) but they damn near cured the issue simply by adding Lucas Oil lubricant to their oil. It raises oil pressure a bit (even at idle), and reduces wear on the cam and lifters. Ive got a 2020 Charger with 38k miles and will definitely add the Lucal Oil lubricant in my next oil change.

@@NickB1121 how much do you add?

@@wilkin1944 I add half a quart at each oil change. 6 and a half quarts Castro full synthetic and half quart of Lucas Oil supplement.

@@NickB1121 Lucas is junk. Sorry. It is just a thickener no real additional additives

How did it go?

Ended up just replacing with MDS cam kit from enginetech so far so good, big job though took me 4 days !

Thanks for the comment, glad it was helpful!

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

Thats good to know, there have been quite a few people have this same issue, hopefully it helps someone going through a similar issue.

Yes, I did have to move the A/C lines out of the way, you need all the room you can get! Thanks!

interesting, thanks for sharing!

Good luck with your project!

Man get it checked first. This cam issue is blown waaaay the hell out of proportion . There are many well documented high mileage hemi rams .

Thanks! I hope it was helpful!

What kit did you use bro I’m trying to find a non mds kit on my 2013 charger 5.7 or would the ams racing kit fit my car as well?

There is another video from an MDS kit maker, that shows how they mark the timing as well, that was informative.

Thank you very much!

I just left them disconnected under the intake. The programmer turns off the MDS, which keeps you from getting any codes.

Yes, I had read about that.

I tried that first, but I could not get the bolt on the pick up tube off, that's hard to get to without dropping the pan.

@@wheelinoutwest next time, use a 13 wrench. If you have to do this again, come to my page

It's almost impossible on the truck version. They say there are extras hold downs on the pick up tube. On mine you can not slide oil pump left or right. Even with the chain guards out.

It's because when you disable the MDS, the lifter ports with the MDS lifters are now not pressurized causing poor lifter/roller lubrication and rubes down the cam and can cause a bent pushrod.....

​@@63crosenberger Reinstalling is the issue if you don't take off the oil pan. You can get the oil pickup bolt off the oil pump by turning the pump clockwise, but getting it back on to thread and tighten is a test of patience , dexterity and creativity. I used fishing line on my bolt coiled counter clockwise on the threads, used my finger to hold in place and pulled on the fishing line to spin the bolt and get it started on the threads of the oil pump.

Thanks, appreciate it!

Nice, glad you could find it!

Thanks for the input, the holders would be a great idea!!

I tried the rubber fuel line holders...didn't work too well, so I simply tightened and kept checking and repositioning the rods as I went along until they didn't pop out and the rockers were on tight.

@@DL101ca yeah it’s not fun anyway you do it really. If I ever have to do one again I’m lifting the cab off the truck to work on the engine. It don’t take long and the A/C can stay connected. Given you have a hoist. It’s worth me being able to see what I’m doing better. Plus the rads and fans suck to mess with one less thing of you lift the cab

I would say I like Chevy and mopar about the same, I even have a ford truck.

Thats interesting, thanks for sharing.

I never replaced the springs, I used what was in the motor, the kit came with everything I needed.

Yes, you just take the middle bolt out, and it all comes off as one assembly. I installed it on the new cam, it only fits one way, then install and torque to spec.

I don’t think there are gaps, but there may be a little play, cranking the motor over by hand helps too.

Thanks, I appreciate it!

No, it does have some different tunes, but I just kept it all on the 87 octane tune. There is a tune for 91, but am not sure if it adds much HP.

Thanks!

You actually remove the ads solenoids, so it cannot activate, and replace the cam, with a non Mds cam, and all new lifters. You can deactivate the MDS through a tuner, but in my case, I already had to replace all these components due to a lifter failure anyway.

@@wheelinoutwest gotcha 👍🏻

So I already bought the lifters and cam with mds ones and then learned about deleting it can I replace the silonouds with plugs and turn it off with tunner without getting non mds lifters and camshaft?

@@leeedelman4289 Hey there, sorry in advance for the long post, but for completeness - I recently did a top-end rebuild in my 6.4. Same lifters and MDS system in both the 5.7 and 6.4, I have photos I can show you to back these facts that are a possible point of failure. I would strongly recommend NOT putting the MDS lifter in the engine with MDS turned off in the tuner. Here is why: Look at your MDS lifters and compare to a non MDS lifter. The pin you see in the side of the MDS unit is mechanical actuator for the MDS system. When MDS is activated that pin is collapsed into the inner core of the lifter, this disengages the outer body of the MDS lifter with the inner core of the lifter. The outer body has the roller on the cam and the inner core seats the push rod. This pin-disconnect is the location for mechanical engagement or disengagment of MDS system. The pin is collapsed to the inner core when Oil pressure pushes on the pin - MDS on. Remove oil pressure from the pin and a small spring inside the lifter (NOT valve spring but a tiny lifter spring) returns the pin to its home position with only this tiny lifter spring pressure (again this is NOT valve spring pressure, but tiny lifter spring pressure) - MDS off. MDS is only activated during lower RPM situations, roughly 2500 rpm and lower, ish. It is an economy mode driving situation. One reason for low rpm operation is at higher rpm the roller has a much harder time staying in contact with the cam lobe profile (this would be true for any lifter). After peak lift, the lifter must change direction very quickly in a very short distance to maintain contact with the cam lobe, The only way this happens is through the incredible strong force of the VALVE spring pushing back on the lifter (through the rocker arm and pushrod). VALVE Spring pressure is God in the valve train. When the MDS is active, the MDS lifter is disconnected at that pin location. This means the lifter roller is disconnected from VALVE spring pressure. If that pin can not or does not return to its home location then at higher rpm your roller is 'jumping' off the cam lobe just after peak lift. At 6000 rpm the lifter roller is experiencing peak lift 50 times per second. That's gonna kick the holy living flat spot into any anything, especially a needle bearing. There is no feed back or sensors of any kind to tell the ECU that the pin is disconnected, other than a misfire code. When the MDS system is cycling on and off these pins usually make it back to their home position, if it gets stuck it has a good chance of being freed on the next cycle, ( I suppose) ,at least a much better chance then if the MDS cycle has been deleted from the ECU operations. How often could a pin really get left in the disconnected position waiting for tiny lifter spring pressure to return it home? I pulled my top end apart due to the sound of mad click one day after a good dose of spirited driving, a Hemi RAM 2500 out roll racing Audis) all eight of mine were out of position where the pin was misaligned with the hole in the outer body. some pins I could still see the pin end, others I thought the lifter had an oiling hole or some thing, pin is so far out of alignment I can't see the pin, all eight had misaligned pins and all it takes is one to trash your motor. (wont be instant catastrophic failure, you get a warning - sounds like...tick, tick,tick,tick, tick. Turn it off until you know what it is.) This pin misalignment was due to me having the MDS system turned off in the tuner for 40k plus miles. I strongly recommend if your going to turn it off be thorough and remove MDS components in their entirety, or disable at the gear selector so it has chance to cycle.dd I know lifters are expensive but the engine is way more expensive. Imagine this - no MDS anything in your Hemi, every time you start it, every time you pull into a drive thru, or drive downtown in your city, all you hear is the rumble of your exhaust, smooth and lopey exhaust no matter what rpm! no tick, no worries, just the beautiful sound of 11mpg. Nothing is so badass, nothing in my world any way! (referring to the exhaust note, the 11 mpg sucks, I just dont look! ok really its 10.4.............. and that's on the evic)

@@brett9736 Thanks for this long explanation. I have a 2016 Charger R/T. I just deleted the MDS with my Diablo Turner. After reading your comment, I believe your stating a tuner MDS delete can cause problems in the engine in the future. I will put the MDS back on. I assumed if I need the MDS off , O can always run vehicle in sports mode. It automatically disables MDS. Thanks for the info.

Thanks for watching!

Actually on my first hemi head gasket job I had one of the exhaust pushrods in the wrong hole 😲 could not figure out why it wouldn't stay running

I agree about piston 1 being TDC and the cam at 12 o clock. I am sure my timing was fine the first time, but since it would not idle, that was the first thing that came to mind, I never thought the pushrod would have been the problem.

Easy to just check by turning the crank by hand before starting it to make sure pistons aren't hitting the valves.

@@DL101ca Thats a good point, I did that without spark plugs the first time, to be sure nothing was going to hit.

Do you think if your one tooth off on the crank the valves would hit?

No, I did not notice low oil pressure, it all seemed to be pretty good.

Mine is good cold, but warm at idle runs around 16. Prolly gonna do the hellcat pump when I do the mds delete cam and lifter swap. Supposedly it fixes the low volume/pressure at idle, but my rings might be getting worn a bit but not really interested in a full rebuild just yet

I am glad to hear!

There are some videos on line, that show how it works, it through ports in the block.

Thanks for the comment!

I took my time with it, and really cleaned the heads well, plus I was working with my niece and had her removing bolts, etc. I think it could be done in a long weekend. The problem is the getting to certain bolts, that are time consuming to pull off. Because I ran into issues, it took me a lot longer than it should have.

I am not familiar with the Trinity, I used the diablsport. It was very easy to shut off with the Diablo sport. I would do a quick search on google.

I agree, it was easy to put in the wrong place. I did turn it by hand, but this was the furthest back lifter, near the firewall, and I did not notice it.

@@wheelinoutwest well, glad it all worked out

Thanks!

Well, I had already pulled everything off the front of the motor, to recheck the timing, and everything was fine.

Good insight, I mentioned as well, I have heard people say the same thing, this can be MDS or non MDS. But if your working on a MDS, you might as well delete it at the same time.

@@wheelinoutwest sure, if your working that deep into engine makes sense, but simple method is to disable MDS in software permanently though if the lifters are AA early Gen3 upto 2015, lifter rollers are ticking time bombs no matter how great servicing has been or how vehicle is driven.

So, it's a roller needle bearing issue? If so many are having this issue. I'm amazed there has yet to be a huge recall.

@@billhoman694 don’t have failure numbers. FCA won’t release numbers. Won’t be recall since it’s not life threatening or safety concern. If I was to take a guess.....any 3rd Gen VVT Hemi 2011 to 2015 with AA lifters with little needle bearings would likely have early failure no matter how well kept and easily driven, doesn’t stop the inevitable. FCA generally accept issue is rife and in cases have been known to replace engine when it fails with this symptom. Personally it would have been cheaper to issue technical bulletin on lifter issue and have dealer servicing replace lifters with stronger AC ones to mitigate the weakness.

@@billhoman694 Yeah, it typically in pretty high mileage vehicles from what I understand, over 100,000 miles. Mine had almost 130,000.

I left the original pump, but I should have at least replaced it.

The pressure can't be increased because the pump is crank driven. It has its own regulated pressure based on rpm

Thanks for the feedback!

I cant say for sure, but I don’t know how this could affect the remote start? The delete is Purely mechanical, then you turn the mds off in the computer. It should not affect the remote start.

I hope it helps!

One thing I do want to know is if I delete it can I just install non mds lifters and cams? Ik you probably went over this but wanted to make sure before I spent $$$ lol.

@@gatgat01 I would do the solenoid block off as well, as that system is all tied together.

@@wheelinoutwest ok awesome thanks!

That sounds like a good deal!

As soon as I corrected the issue, of the pushrod not seated it ran perfectly the next time I fired it up.

I’m pretty sure that the “relearn” thing is a little exaggerated. I had to replace my engine wiring harness and went through almighty hell looking for ANY cracks, shorts,breaks, etc on my original after doing the same on the used replacement, as no OEMs exist. I found NONE on either and when I first fired it up

I just finished up a cam/lifters install on a hemi. Before I attempted it. Just like you. Research. Then bought a kit. I did not do a delete. Customers choice. Before I attempted to just fix the lifter issues. I pulled the lifters and cam. Found cam was getting signs of damage. So a new cam and lifters. I found torqued specs all over. But I had to sort thru the ones who were very unclear on instructions. I think many assumptions are taken that people who take on a job like this is simple to everyone. I took time to organize my parts in bags. Then the tireless job of cleaning parts with my pressure washer. The customers truck was very very dirty. Top end. But I got my parts and started my task. I learned the heads are only right and left only. After trying to reinstall the exhaust manifolds. And I thought I had it nailed. My stupid mistake. Bought new gaskets and bolts. Hunckerd down. Got the job done. Before I fired up the engine. I turned the engine over several times by hand to watch each of the valves were moving and remembered the short push rods were the intake. I used a mirror to line each one up. Even though...the very last exhaust push rod was not moving. I loosen up the exhaust train. Reset the push rod and retested it. Now all my intake and exhaust valves were moving. I button it up. Then I started the engine. I ran it for a minute or so. Making sure my oil pressure came up first. After about 5 starts. I finally got the engine up and running. It took about 30 minutes to finally warm up. Constantly checking oil and water temperature and levels. Checking for leaks. I didn't drive the truck until about 2 hours of checking and rechecking. Then my test drive. But no more ticking noises. After my customer got the truck. I went back to see why my lifters were stuck ? I took apart the bad lifter on #1 exhaust. After 255k on the engine. Just normal failed lifters and cam going bad. The owners wife didn't want to give up her truck. So they are glad they made the choice.

That filter was not on there very long after start up, and it was replaced.

The kit is great, you just have to pay extra attention to the timing, which is easy if you pull the oil pump. Also make sure all the pushrods are sitting in place. The goal of the video was to help anyone who has an issue with idle after the install, on what problems it could be. Good luck!

So far so good, the vehicle is back at my brother in laws, but still running as far as I know.

I hope you found it helpful! Thanks for the comment!

I am in at the end of installing a new crate motor in my 2007 Charger RT. I put the solenoid delete plugs in place. Will it run right without a tune? Or will it run like crap? Thanks guys.

@@Barrylickin I’ve read that it depends! So I finish doing the 2015 Ram and I turned it on and it ran fine ! It’s been a month and still running good

@@Barrylickin if you have questions message me , I couldn’t tune the 2015 ram with Hp tunner it pcm has to be unlocked first so soon when I get the unlocked pcm I’ll delete the MSD but the truck has been running really good

If you are pulling the intake and replacing one, you might as well replace them all. They do not come out easy, and require some effort, the plastic becomes fragile, and they break apart.

I would run an engine oil cleaner, change the oil and filter and run with the new oil for awhile to see if the code comes back. The solenoids can get clogged and will be slow to deactivate. I would even change the oil twice before attempting to change the solenoids.

No, you turn off the mds with the controller supplied with the kit, and you do not get a check engine light. I am not sure about passing emissions with the kit?

Hey what’s up , I have a 2012 ram 1500 5.7 , had the same issue with the MDS system, I did replace the liffters and cam shaft, use a non MDS lifters with the original cam shaft (buy new one from mopar) and u just need to turn off the MDS system with a Diablo tune, take out the solenoids that activate the MDS and use plugs (buy in amazon or eBay) locate on top off the block ( below the intake) and it should run just fine ( turn off the MDS system before replace the parts) I hope this information helps u

Not sure, but I would think you would have to delete the mds solenoids as well, hence the tune.

Hopefully you get it resolved!

@@wheelinoutwest did it last night I must of not had the intake pushrod in on the lifter side and it bent replaced reassembled all is good now! Thanks again for the vid 💪👍

Are you getting misfire codes too? If you did the delete, you also need a tuner as well, to shut off the MDS so you do not get any codes. However, AMS Racing told me it still should idle without the tune, so I would start looking for any mechanical issues as well.

Yes I got a Diablo tune 3 and also purchased a custom tune from Greene racing for it I installed a comp cam comp push rods and hell cat lifters. Had the engine machined to a 20 over bore new pistons and rings. I’m getting the 0013 code which is the cam shaft position I looked it up and the truck would run but too aggressive and turns off after 30-40 seconds and I pulled one of the plugs which was wet so running real rich of course. I changed the cam sensor that located under the intake manifold and the other censor on the passenger side on the block on the out side wish I could send you some videos of what I changed so far.

Plus my Diablo don’t have that option I see you talked about the mds which I did get the delete kit with the plugs and everything

@@El_verde I see, you have done more work than just the stock engine, like mine was. This is a little different situation than mine was.

I just left them unplugged, and zip tied them to secure them to something.

That’s interesting, if the cam pin is breaking, something is not happy🤔. These motors are pretty picky about timing, so if it was running good, but still broke a pin, I am not sure.

There are some video online that show how the mds systems works, they are very helpful.

The reason I replaced them, was because the bad lifter took out the cam lobe, so I had to tear into everything anyway, so it was a good time to replace it all anyway.

Sorry to hear about your issues. An oil pump failure, can cause catastrophic damage to your engine, if the engine was run for any length of time after the failure. It could have damaged every component in your engine, and in that case, you may need a new motor. However, with out running some tests, it is hard to say. This video is more about deleting the MDS system, and some issue I ran into while doing so.

Put a 6.2 hellcat engine spec oil pump in. It’s higher volume at idle - pressure is OK just the volume of oil is the issue at idle. Hemi engines left to idle for long periods like in Police cars etc seem to have a lack of oil volume at idle. There is a solution MOPAR Part numbers: 6.2 Supercharged Hemi Helcat Oil pump is higher volume than the standard hemi 5.7 oil pump High VOLUME oil Pump (not high Pressure) 68195993AD High Volume Oil Pump 53020861 oil pick up o ring You will need the oring to seal the oil pick up. Drop the sump as low as you can at the front to reveal the oil pump Unbolt the sump and lower it down as much as you can and turn pump to the side as you remove it Use a new Oring and don’t drop the old Oring or the bolts into the sump or you are in a world of pain… This is what people should do as soon as they buy a new RAM1500 with 5.7 hemi

Thanks, good luck with your project!

Let us know how it works out!

Same here I’m looking to get a shop to do the delete for me. Sometimes it Ticks and sometimes it doesn’t.

That’s exactly what I did, I didn’t notice it as easily as it was the furthest back cylinder to the firewall. It was kind of hard to see.

Things are good, the vehicle is back at my brother in laws, but last I heard it’s still hood. I think it worth doing, as long as the bottom end of the motor is still good, which it should be.

*still good

It had a 110,000 miles or so.

I am using the diablo sport tuner, they make applications for your year as well. If you are replacing the solenoids, you might as well just delete them, and use the tuner to shut MDS off. The delete solenoids are just plastic plugs, and you leave the harness unplugged.

@@wheelinoutwest I found a Diablo sport tuner U7137 I think I’ll grab it. I’m replacing the solenoids next week, after they’re replaced you said I can just go ahead and disable them? Sounds good

@@H1storybr3akdown Yes, in the diablsport, you have to navigate to the MDS screen, turn the MDS off, and install the tune to save it.

@@H1storybr3akdown Just verify that will work with your year as well.

Thanks! The engine did not over heat or have head gasket issues, so I did not have it machined. However when cleaning the old gasket off, I always check with a straight edge and feeler gauge to make sure everything is flat. The Hemi is a good motor.

We were able to get ours running, so there is still hope for yours! Good luck!

How did it go Zeke? I'm not too far away from diving in

@@Spoofaged it was honestly not bad. I was really impressed how easy it was to work on this engine. It is up and running. Just getting all the parts in was the pain. Sent the heads off to get redone. Installed everything and it’s running. I was about 1500 bucks in. Hope it last at least another 20k miles lol. Good luck

@@zekemontgomery6678 that's good to hear. I made mine a bit easier to work on when I put the electric fan in. Freed up a ton of room and actually cools when I'm sitting in traffic again, so win win. Putting some shorty headers in today to get rid of the exhaust leak so I can actually hear how bad mine is. Trying to squeeze another month or 2 out of it so when I go to do it, it's not 100 degrees outside

Nice, my cam was destroyed already, so that's why I replaced mine. Thanks for sharing.

No, it sounds really smooth, like stock.

It’s 3 options to get rid of the mds is to Buy the Diablo tune or get it properly tuned or just do the complete mds delete…

I believe it did a good job catching it. Its been a few months of daily use, and the oil looks good, and the motor runs smooth.

Hi Jake, to be clear, you already have swapped out the cam and lifters, or you were going to? If you look at my Cam in the video, it was wore down pretty bad, when it wears down the metal would end up in your engine, and hopefully the filter catches it, before going through the bearings. Its hard to say if it caused any other damage with out taking the engine apart and having a good look at it.

@@wheelinoutwest hey I haven’t changed the cam or the lifters yet cause that’s what failed, I took out my mds solenoids and they are clean also I took out my vvt solenoid and it’s also clean, I am going to take out my oil pan to check it out, I am thinking of just flushing out the engine and putting a new cam and lifters in it. Is that a good idea or just get a new motor ?

@@jakebowmen764 What you listed is what I did, and it has been working just fine. After I ran mine for a few miles, I changed the oil filter again, and then changed it again after a few months. Mine has been working fine, my niece uses it to commute around town. The MDS kit is pretty reasonable, and I also changed the water pump, battery, harmonic balancer, serpentine belt and some other things, so it cost me in total around $2000. Crate motors are great, but they seem to range from around 4 to 7 K, and used motors could have the same issue. I guess it depends on how much you want to spend, but my bottom end on the motor did not seem to be damaged.

@@wheelinoutwest Thank you!

I did not change the pushrod length, the cam just changes the timing for the valves a little.

@@wheelinoutwest so it means that i just should order the mds delete kit with cam and lifter and mds delete plugs thats it ?

Thats a good point!

I would not install it on something that does not have it.

No I did not, it sounds like it would be a good idea.

When I bought the kit, it was around $1200 to $1400.