"Like it's an 8th grade book report." Huh, guess that explains what all these Themes are doing here.

Welp, time to take the clip of you pointing at a picture of Hitler and saying, "I voted for that one" completely out of context.

honestly the whole jojo rabbit vs. the directors take on comedy thing is fucking hysterical to me. man imagine how he felt seeing that shit when Jojo Rabbit won damn

I also think that non mentally ill people tend to be drawn to these types of stories because they can’t handle the idea that they too could possibly do these bad things. They have to ‘prove’ that they could never be this evil because they aren’t apart of the group of people who are. Or that they need a reason for someone to do bad things other than anger because at some point they too have been angry. Ironically I feel it is more comfortable to know that you are actively choosing not to be bad compared to not being capable of being bad

its interesting that anger is brought up as a more central issue cause other depictions of the Joker (especially the DCAU of the 90s and the recent harly quinn series) really push that aspect of the joker, that his laughter and joker persona is fake and he is really the angriest person in the story and those rare outbursts are usually when he is most dangerous.

My god. I am so horrified that you were put into solitary confinement in school. It's torture when done to adults, and I can't even imagine the extent of the damage that it does to children. I am so, so sorry that this happened to you.

When i was in school, if a student was being even mildly annoying, they'd grab you, pin you down and sit on you. I got bruises a lot. They'd put all their body weight on you and I couldn't breathe, and when I said I was being suffocated they said "well then you shouldn't have been acting like that." I wasn't even doing anything but getting emotional over not understanding the schoolwork (not that it matters if I was doing anything or not, it's still unacceptable.) It traumatized me. I already had PTSD in connection to being restrained. I'm pretty sure it's illegal and was then too, but if you have a mental illness, people won't believe you when you try to tell someone. Rules don't get enforced unfortunately and it's abhorrent.

I didn't like this movie for obvious reasons, but i do actually appreciate how they never actually give him a diagnosis. Because one thing the movie does is make the point that the mental health system has failed him. And as someone who keeps getting different diagnoses and explanations on what the hell is up with me, it is pretty realistic in that sometimes nobody else is going to fully grasp what you're going through and put an accurate label on it.

As someone with C-PTSD (and an assortment of other comorbid mental health issues), the part about anger being the thing that makes people do violence rather than mental illness resonated with me quite well, because anger is an emotion that my brain has always actively rebelled against. More than once I remember getting physically or emotionally bullied and getting angry, but my brain just actively fought against anger and I'd often start crying even as I was trying to hold onto what (I felt) was righteous anger at my own mistreatment. And if I tried to respond to violence with violence I'd start crying even more because the idea of causing someone else pain was so distressing that it often just made my anger evaporate into a horrible feeling of guilt and shame. Anyway I really liked this video. I went to see The Joker in cinemas. It was actually the last movie I went to see in the cinema, before the... you know. My friend (who also struggles with mental health issues) and I just walked out after 25 minutes because it was too distressing to watch and the thought that it was going to turn into this thing of "he kills because he's mentally ill!" just churned my stomach. My mental illness makes me fold to conflict. Conflict distresses me. Hurting other people scares me. So seeing mental illness constantly be blamed for violence just... sickens me to my core.

About the “I’m off my medication I’m fine now” line Just because someone says they are ok doesn’t mean they are

I was a patient in the 80s. The ineptitude of the system is pretty dead on... For the poor. Also, the system was full of physical and sexual abuse. He was hanging on, tuen his medication is taken away. That social worker was burnt out. I bet she was good in her day. I imagine she is overworked. She had the guts to say what nobody else will. Nobody cares about us. Nobody cares about funding. The ability to get over ones condition is also directly connected to insurance and money. I used to attend a day program. The reason the day program was opened was because there were too many mentally ill people walking around downtown. This agency that was designed to help us was Really designed to keep us out of sight. Mental illness is one disease, pair it with poverty it might as well be two. "The extreme always seems to makes an impression" Heathers. This movie had to be a little over-the-top. We have to get in your face for help. Because we become invisible. I can't condone violence. The similarities between me and Joker end there. But my empathy goes on. You are right about identity. I've always explained my mental illness as Spider-Man's Venom suit. In Secret Wars, Spider-Man use the wrong machine to fix his cos. Venom did more than Encompass Peter Parker. It weaved itself so deep, it became part of him. That's my identity. I don't know where I begin in my illness ends, sometimes. Perhaps this movie doesn't understand Mental Illness, but that even makes it more poignant for me. The depiction of the system is right on. I really think the empathy is there, and is trying to make us seen. I'm sorry what you had to go through, I really do have empathy. I'm sorry we have two different takes. I respect yours. Only through conversation can we really overcome.

Just wanna say that, after subscribing to this channel after watching the two Animorphs videos, it was an unprecedented delight to see you open this one by quoting Marco.

Side note: the film has a weird as hell relationship with how it portrays Black women.

Jojo Rabbit deserved it more, tbh

“I’m too close to the issue” Don’t give me that. You’re closer to the issue than the directors could ever dream to be. We _need_ you and others to be close to the production and criticism of works like this, because you alone have the experiences necessary to dredge up the real problems in the works. An eye on the ground is exactly what we need.

Dramatizing mental illness can be counterproductive on a certain level, in terms of optics, as much of real mental illness is inherently mundane. It teaches people to understand mental health issues in terms that are narratively pleasing; inciting incident, dramatic tension, catharsis, etc. But real mental illness doesn't speak in the language of film. It is subtle, and therefore more insidious, it creeps up on you in ways you don't notice until suddenly you're saying dozens of horrible things to yourself every day and every happy memory you've ever had is completely blurred out, and you've forgotten that that isn't normal. Other people can't see that easily and they never will if they're expecting some overt plot point to signal mental illness to them, and they'll never really be able to help if they're expecting any sort of cinematic resolution as recovery often takes the rest of a person's life.

At least in the comics, and earlier batman movies, he's a normal guy or a gangster who has one bad day/is expossed to chemicals. in other media, he shoes how the joker is different because the bad day broke him, while batman grew from it. He's not mentally ill before becoming joker.

I know this vid is a year old, but these are really good, and I hope to see more in the future. You got a new subscriber

this is a wonderful video but one note: autism isn't a mental illness, it's a neurological disorder. i'm only correcting a super small single sentence, but because i'm both autistic and mentally ill myself i care about the two being mixed up.

"i'm the Joker baby" still the best representation of the Joker He isn't a self pity hipocrite or a bad representation of a mentally ill person, he is just the Joker, baby

genuinely shocked that you don't have more views. your videos have such a good layout and i can not emphasize how much i appreciate the fact you put content warnings on your videos. idk brain sees you in my recommended and goes bRRRRR

I love that you begin and end this video with quotes from Marco. His views on life really did alter my own when I was growing up (honestly, all the Animorphs did. I see a bit of each of them in myself, both good and bad.) But Marco's "laugh at tragedy because the other option is to cry" really resonated with me. Laughing something off lets you get to focusing on how to deal with the problem a lot sooner than crying about it. It kinda makes me think that Marco and the Joker are two sides of the humor coin. Marco laughs at tragedy as a way to cope, where the Joker makes tragedy so he can laugh. I really think if there was a Batman/Animorphs crossover, Marco would be the best one to confront the Joker because of this. He could call out the Joker like no one else could.

the moment you have to specify "the boy is okay with it" you've already done something wrong

It's endlessly relieving to hear you talk about this film. The way everyone I was hearing from held it up as some wonderful piece about mental illness genuinely frightened me, and really only made me feel far LESS understood and much more afraid to be open and honest about my issues. This video was obviously personal to you but in it's own way it's personal to me too, and it legitimately helps ease my fear to hear someone more eloquent than me talk about it in this way.

The way I saw Joker was not blaming the mental illness but more the idea that his mental illness just made everything he went through worse and the joker himself felt trapped and his choice to kill was his way out of feeling trapped but I completely see the connections in this video that I didn’t see before

In comics, the Joker isn’t really meant to be understood. He _has_ to be a static character to make sense. He doesn’t gradually develop into a psychotic villain he just is one. He starts out “normal” but he was born with screws lose. The Joker’s origins isn’t gradual it’s a quick snap. The joker is a symbol more than he is a person (there’s technically 3 of him, it’s canon but not really, then there’s the “batman who laughs” which DC abused the shit out of) so any story that makes him too human fails.

Can I just say how weird I find it, even today, that they made a movie about the Joker and tried to make him seem sympathetic? Like... this is the Joker. The Clown Prince of Crime. The Harlequin of Hate. The man whose atrocities have become only more sadistic and macabre as the decades have gone on. The psychopath who took a crowbar to Jason Todd and beat him to death with it while laughing. I'm sorry but... whatever sob story they wanted to spin about Joker's "One Bad Day" would pale in comparison to the nightmare he is portrayed as in almost all other DC media. I cannot watch a movie called Joker and forget that it's about the character who shoots Barbara Gordon and paralyzes her just so he can screw with her father's mind.

I think the main problem with this movie is just that it looks at people who are unwell, and says "yup, you're all in this neat little box of the mentally ill". The us vs them, the others. Its saying "oh Arthur has a problem, and he has a foot in this box, so obviously its the box not him." It treats a personality disorder the same as an involuntary stress condition the same as complete dissociation, and says that they're all equally an issue. Sure they compound, but conditions in loved ones that you personally should be worried about, are very very limited and usually you'll know if you personally are in danger.

I think the irony here, other than that Jojo Rabbit won, is that the character that does tend to fall in those "one bad day" stories is Superman. You know the guy who tends to have loving parents, stable relationships, a stable job, on demand emotional support and guidance, and is generally regarded as a paragon? Yeah, that guy. And while those stories usually involve a traumatic incident never addresses it as him having just "gone crazy" or anything diminishing and tend to even reinforce the idea that he hasn't actually changed that much at all.

'People are too easily offended these days, comedy is dead!!' 'We made this movie about Empathizing with the Downtrodden.' 🤔🤔🤔

I really liked Marco's line of, you can either go through life crying or go through it laughing. It really help me to this day.

Came for the Animorphs and interesting takes. Stayed for the Blue nails, honest commentary, and vulnerability.

One way that I think this movie could have been a lot more self aware is not have Arthur be the Joker. Have Arthur be just a mentally ill aspiring stand up comic, and then come across this strange charismatic dangerous man who makes him feel like he belongs. A man who turns out to be... (dun dun dun!) the Joker. Maybe still have Arthur shoot those wall street guys, because it could be framed as an accident, incentivizing Arthur to become more dependent on this one person who claims he understands Arthur, because now he thinks he has no-one else to turn to. And through his constant struggles the Joker gaslights Arthur into thinking that he did all those things, when really the Joker was using Arthur and in the end framing him for murdering Arthurs mother, friends and Murray. Not a story about a mentally ill man who just becomes a villian with the subtext "It was inevitable BEWARE THE VIOLIENT CRAZIES" But the story of a mentally ill victim who vulnerability makes him prey to a charismatic psychopath.

Anyone who claims that you can't make offensive humour in the modern day has clearly not watched Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

Accidentally found this channel due to the Animorphs video I love it now

I just stumbled onto your channel. Everything I've watched from you so far has been excellent. This video really hit different though. As someone who's been living with mental illness, has been in those rooms, has seen the looks in people's eyes when they find out I have a diagnosis its so good to see someone so effectively call out the harm that hese depictions do. It really means a lot to me. Thank you so much.

I'll be 39 in March. I've struggled with mental illness my entire life. I was self-harming at 13 and sent to a psychologist shortly after, and according to him, based on how mental illness was at the time and how my doctors didn't want me to be "on so many medications" because I was "too young to have anything wrong with me" (I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia at 12 so I've been in pain my entire life too), so I wasn't "allowed" to be treated with proper bipolar diagnosis and medications until I was 22. This essay and how you explain all of this is why I get SO MAD when people say about mass shooters "They're just a mentally ill lone wolf". Like, NO! Stop with that narrative! Stop it! They're not mentally ill! Like you said, they make the CHOICE to be evil and to kill!

The issue with people like Todd Phillips isn't their audiences are "too offended", it's that their worldviews is just wrong. It ultimately won't matter what genre he chooses to work in, comedy, drama, etc, if his portrayal of the world leans on such outdated and inaccurate stereotypes, he's gonna fail.

I like the way you timestamp different points in your essays. It's really nice and makes your videos easy to watch, and shows respect for your audience. It would be nice if it became more of a norm

In regards to Joker emphasizing the lack of available resources to people who have mental problems, I do agree that it is a major problem (the lack of available source for mental illness, that is). As far as Joker going off the deep end, "Run, Hide, Fight." Tristan is another perfect example of someone looking for help but gets turned away by the system and promptly feeds off of social media to get his fix.

Just stumbled on your channel through the Animorphs videos (which are really good! I'm excited about Part 3). Thank you for addressing this movie in a calm and collected manner and not matching it's overly bombastic approach. You did good, definitely got a new subscriber here.

Just stumbled across this channel and I'm really glad someone else clocked the messed up way this film handles mental illness. As someone with a mental illness, I got seriously annoyed with people going, "OoH! aAh! ThIs FiLm ReAlLy HaS sOmEtHiNg PoWeRfUl To SaY aBoUt MeNtAl iLlNeSs"

This just brings to mind that "Speak Up, Reach Out" or whatever everybody was pushing a few years ago in response to a school shooting. Something like "identify the quiet loner kid in your grade and reach out, speak to them so they won't turn into the next school shooter" (super simplified and more on-the-nose than the actual slogan they came up with to make it sound better than what they were actually advocating for, but that was the main gist of it). And it UPSET me because it was me, *I* was that quiet kid these politicians were framing as some dangerous closet psychopath who would eventually snap and shoot up a school if the other students didn't.......sit with me at lunch? Frankly if I *was* that type of person and found out that my best friend had only become my best friend because they thought I was some dangerous psychopath who would "inevitably" shoot up the school but would spare them, because they were "my best friend", I'd fuckin' shoot them first 🙃 IDK, this movie just seems like a movie The Abled's made to make themselves feel better about their general distrust of any neurodivergent person. "See! This movie is GRITTY and REALISTIC and REALISTICALLY PORTRAYS {my own narrow, heavily biased view of} mental illness! This is ART IN CINEMA!!", *movie casually alienates a large part of its audience by having the title character who they'd up until then been able to relate to commit 3 murders on the subway*, "ART I SAY!!!"

I internalized Alfreds words over Joker from the Dark Knight. I never made the mistake of associating mental illness with Joker afterward. The Joker movie does just that. They keep bringing up an undisclosed mental condition whenever Joker makes someone his victim, as if to explain away that only a deranged man could be capable of such sudden, violent actions. The Joker is not the monster that he is because of any mental issues or abuse. What makes the Joker evil is that he consciously decides to hurt other people. Initially, I liked this movie. Now I realize I was mashing the events of the film with the preexisting rationale I expected Joker to be operating under. In a vacuum, this movie's Joker character is a mash of conflicting themes.

For good representation of mental illness, I strongly recommend a korean series called Flower of Evil. The main character has antisocial personality disorder, and he's the hero! His disorder is explicitly stated and his loving wife knew about it even before they started dating. The series shows really well what it's like being mentally ill; he watches videos that teach different expressions, asks why others laughed at certain points, and it's shown how he's the victim in most if not all violent situations. The show is about the main character clearing his name, because his father was a serial killer and he's suspected to be have helped his father. He lives under a false name and tries to find his father's real accomplice

ronald reagan is responsible for the joker in-universe

You read the movies differently than I did... I don't see a connection between mental health and violence in the movie. It's the anger.

@16:52 "It's just how I am". Thank you. That right there. This movie made me so uncomfortable because my ex also struggled with a mental illness but deliberately went off his meds. When he started gaslighting me as our arguments got worse and worse, he would always utter that line. I left the cinema shook because the movie just felt so familiar and uncomfortable that I couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks for that. It's been years already and I'm still discovering and understanding things about that failed relationship.

I know I'm writing this a year late and only partially into the video but I've had sort of the same type of things happen. Therapists berating you for being untreatable, psychiatrists telling you you don't need more medicine even after you tell them it's not working. Getting put in mental hospitals to just lie and cheat your way out cause they don't do their jobs right. I agree that this movie just is bad for mental health awareness but I think it also shows that these things do actually kinda happen. No one talks about when it does cause it shows a collosal failure as a society

Just found your vids through KZfaq’s algorithm, and as scary as it is to let google learn more and more about my psyche, I am genuinely glad I was recommended your channel! Your videos examine EXACTLY the kind of stuff that I space out thinking about in an incredibly entertaining, well-produced, and NUANCED way. I love your genuine nerdiness (and your nails)!! I usually don’t leave comments, but it’s the least I can do to boost your numbers and hopefully get more ppl watching! If you see this, I hope you have a good day! PS: Totally agree with your comment about Jo Jo Rabbit; I adore that movie.

I enjoyed this a lot. Thank you for your well thought out words and I would like to hear more of what you have to say about any media topics you come up with.

I've learned over time that generally, if a creator prefaces something by saying "Yeah I would've made it differently but y'all get too offended", the end product is probably still gonna be pretty bad.

Subscribed, liked, and commented. Saved a bunch of your videos to watch later. Thanks for being here and making this.

I liked this movie when I watched it, but it fell short of what I was expecting from all the praise it was receiving. I had my problems with it, but I swoon enough for Joaquin on the regular that it was easy to brush aside my misgivings. You have now made me look upon this film in closer detail and all the reasons why it is harmful. This was truly an enlightening video. Also, as someone with mental illness who has tried to take their own life about 5 times with varying severity, what you said about wondering who you are when you're mentally ill really hit me, so much so that I almost cried while I was cooking. Am I just my mental illness? Will I be able to fulfill the potential I could have if my brain wasn't against me? Thank you for this video. I have since subscribed and will share this everywhere I can.

33:04 Thank you! It feels so good to hear someone else say this. I found this so frustrating when watching the movie - you can tell that they really wanted to depict Arthur as just being a victim of circumstance, but he wasn't. Throughout the entire movie, Arthur never takes accountability for his own actions, and doesn't even attempt to do so. He just constantly blames everyone and everything else for his problems while failing to even attempt the most basic acts to avoid them and improve his situation. There are a lot of people who have gone through similar things depicted in the movie but never snapped and killed people. Nothing that Arthur did was inevitable or unavoidable. It's very clear, watching the movie, that you're seeing someone who has no idea what it's like to live with a mental illness or mental disorder try to depict what living with a mental illness is like. The vast majority of people with mental illness do not commit violent acts.

Really like your video essays. This is the second one I've watched from you. The first was the Pirates dice game. Great stuff! Looking forward to more :)

Seems like I'm joining the wave of people checking out the rest of your channel all of a sudden! So glad I got hooked through your animorphs video, your videos are so incredibly high quality and I'm fully prepared for the ride that will be binging them. And I hope everyone in this comments section is taking care of themselves!

Stumbled upon your channel due to an Animorphs video, which referenced this video, that references the Animorphs. Really gratifying full circle! Thanks, mate. I've subscribed.

Excellent analysis on both this and the chess/Sherlock holmes vid. I would like to argue that @18:37 when Arthur says "I'm off my medication, I feel good." doesn't necessarily mean Arthur being off his meds is a "good thing", it's just that maybe Arthur feels free to finally not be trying to fit in on his meds and "act normal". Kinda like saying "I don't have a mental problem, you have a problem with my mental state." I would also say that just because he murders someone doesn't mean he doesn't feel good. Correlation does not equal causation. I absolutely agree with the ending of your vid and I thank you for you sharing your personal story.

I have to say, this was moving. Every minute of this and your Animorphs videos is engaging. Keep making these.

Hey man, I’ve enjoyed a number of your videos. Around the 23 minute mark here, you offer some aspects of your personal experiences with mental illness. Movie essay aside, just wanted to offer some solidarity with those experiences. Thanks for sharing.

The last physical confrontation I had with my dad, he tried to force his way into my room to keep my door open. I was pushing him out when he said that I was bigger than him, and something to the effect of "why don't you just beat me with violence?". I answered that "No. I'm not you." Victims of abuse, trauma, neglect and mental illness who have been controlled, terrified and threatened into subservience don't have many choices, or even are aware that they are capable of having free will or choice. But we do have the choice of not hurting others, when and where we are able.

I think my favorite part about your videos is not only how in depth they all are, but how you can cover a variety of topics with no relation, but nothing's felt out of place. You've got videos about mental illness in movies, the technology in Small Soldiers, gushing about all the great stuff in Animorphs, and now Homestar's mastery of Flash, and it all still feels uniquely you. And over a year of creating, I hope you're proud of your content, because you should be.

Glad to see someone else felt uncomfortable with the Joker’s portrayal of mental illness when it seems like everyone else is in awe of it. There were good elements to the movie. But I didn’t think it was a super deep cinematic masterpiece. And actually the framing perpetuates an incorrect and marginalizing public connection between mental illness and violence.

First of all, this is an awesome video and I’m absolutely delighted to have stumbled upon your channel! I love how you break the issues down piece by piece and this is a fantastic explanation of how the movie can add to the stigma against mental illness. The only bit that I would have liked to see more discussion of, was the concept of “choice” vs “victim of circumstance/consequence”. Because you’re right, the movie *doesn’t* provide good depictions of choice - for example, they missed an opportunity of depicting the Joker making a choice to *not* kill his romantic interest (if their goal was to make him empathetic/deserving of empathy). The movie depicts a character caught in a metaphorical storm of life difficulties to which he is just constantly *reacting* in an attempt to cope. Your video’s final message about the importance of choice is uplifting and I think part of what makes this a good video, however… I think there’s more to be discussed in terms of how anger and reactionary cascades lead to chaos and bad societal situations… because while the movie’s shift of blame from a person’s “bad”/“evil”/“villainous” choices to “bad circumstances” is inadequate, neither is the idea that all negative human actions are purely the result of that person’s choices. It’s a combination of the two, but I’d love to see discussion of where and how those concepts meet.

Hullo! It’s me, your local neurotypical descending from on high to tell you about your own representation! Music by sia was the greatest thing ever to happen to autistic people! Joker is amazing! Look how woke I am! Bow to my supreme sensitivity!

I came to this after one of your Animorphs videos (you actually got me into the series with those, so thanks for that), and I cannot describe how I feel to see that someone agrees with my take on the Joker movie. An additional point I would like to bring up is how this seems to be affecting fiction as a whole is two major ways, realism equals grimdark and everything has to seem deep. Reality is NOT constant suffering and misery. There is good in the world, and you can choose to see it, as you brought up in those Marco quotes. Anyone can choose to embrace the good in the world or to fall into darkness, but it is just that, a choice. On everything needs to be deep, and this is something I've been saying since the trailer for the Joker released, the Joker is the kind of character that was never meant to be sympathetic, at least in my eyes. He wasn't meant to be a symbol of a failed society or how the lowest of the world are treated, he was meant to be a crazy comic book villain. Trying to make him anything more than that robs him of what makes him a good villain and reduces him to a poorly handled symbol. Sorry for the long comment, but I just had to get this out there to you. Hoping you see this.

Wow, going back, and honestly you did really, really well, and your video editing has only gotten cleaner since!!

Watching a video about why Joker is problematic, KZfaq asking me to buy the movie the upper right corner. Yup.

I enjoyed the movie but coming from a family with a history of mental illness its a very negative depiction that relies on cliches and stereotypes.

“I’m not exactly sure what happened. Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another. If I’m going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!” Someone online speculated that this is just one of several stories Joker tells about his "origin story."

I’ve always felt similarly about The Joker, and I remember that I was absolutely terrified of going to even see it in the theatre. I’ve suffered from mental illness longer than I’ve been without it, starting meds at eight. When I watched the movie I promised myself that I’d never watch it again, because it left such a bad taste in my mouth. It’s a dangerous film. I came out of it feeling scared of myself in some odd way. And though Arthur might share some similar mental health problems as me, I can’t sympathize with him at all. They somehow masked his anger with mental illness and that’s so irresponsible on the writers behalf. As someone who’s been through it all, I’ve never thought of seriously hurting anyone other than myself. I genuinely hope more people see your video, it’s informative and really shows a perspective that is important. Also love your other content, keep it up :)!

Love your work! Thank you for sharing such personal details. I'm sure it was difficult, but it's hard to understand something noone ever talks about

First time seeing a video of yours. Instantly subscribed.

Your videos are absolutely killer. So glad I discovered them!

The book report comment made me spit out my drink 🤣, excuse me while I listen to the rest of the video while cleaning my desk

My gf and I both looked at each other after this movie and both brought up a lot of the points you made in this video. We both have friends that are on the spectrum or have mental health issues. At least one or more of my friends throughout my different circles have had different issues like Schizophrenia, PTSD, Aspergers , and Tourette’s. Just to name a few.

The list of demographics harmed by irresponsible depictions by Hollywood is LONG, including everything from the military to poor people to racial demographics to women to ... so it's pretty much everyone. It was great to see you stand up for one of the most vulnerable groups hurt by this.

Bit late to the party, I'm binge watching your channel after the algorithm suggested your Liar's Dice video, but I'm so happy that someone was finally able to put into words why I was so uncomfortable with this movie. I haven't seen it myself but I heard a lot about it and had a lot of the plot and scenes spoiled for me, and I always felt like the message of the film was a lot more harmful than most people were saying. This video really cemented that. I just wish I'd watched your New Mutant's video *after* this one since that has a more uplifting message lol. also fuck Todd Philips.

Im trying to think on how to phrase this. As someone who has been tumbling through dealing with mental illness and a psychologist (ikr), I think theres an issue of focus. Risk factors for extremely violent people and mental illness meet in a lot of points. And almost all of these risk factors are related to society, systems and economy. Even if the trauma comes from the persons family life as a child, we as a society failed that child, the systems in place that should protect children arent enough or arent working properly. But the narrative is constantly individualized and then gets generalized. Cause then governments, communities and societies dont need to think about how they are failing the people living in them, or how they should change. You reduce it to a personal problem, give it an explanation of trauma or mental illness and move on. But even if the person has mental illness that is merely the begining to understanding how to make things better so it doesnt happen to others, it doesnt justify a shrug, or fear of people with mental illnesses. This might be a silly example but, we know that happy healthy people dont get caught up in psychoactive substance abuse. Its a self destructive coping mechanism. Its a mental/emotional crutch the same way you'd use one for a hurt leg so you could walk. We known this for decades. But instead of find ways of making kids and people in general lives better, implementing systems to help and safety nets, we declare a war on drugs and pour resources into playing a cat and mouse game with users and dealers. We criminalize them and paint them as violent and dangerous. They the individuals are the problem, you see, that way we dont have any thing to do with it

I was absently listening to this video while making character notes for a writing project, and ended up writing a few hundred words specifically on violence and mental illness within three different characters, and solved a lot of problems I'd created for myself. content like this is such a great tool for aspiring writers trying to organise their thoughts into a strong, meaningful product. thank you :)

THANK YOU! As an aspiring therapist, I despise this movie's portrayal of mental illness

Am very late but if you consider the movie in the context of Batman lore and cannon, (mostly from comics), then it is a very good study into the character of joker, especially in the context of the killing joke and other such stories. As someone who'd read nearly every joker comic and seen every movie and cartoon under the sun, this movie was so satisfying because it had all the nihilism, futility, and anarchy that a joker "origin" needs. Watching it, it was never really about the mental illness aspect. The point of the movie is not to accurately depict these things, however it maybe should have been considered more in production as misrepresentation can always be bad especially with these kinds of issues. But the point of the movie was this: it doesnt matter exactly what mental illness the joker had or whether he had them at all, what events traumatized him or didnt traumatize him when he was child, whether or not his mother loved him, what matters is that it is possible in this world for someone to experience in their life a perfect storm. One that leaves them utterly broken and unable to relate in any positive or meaningful way to another human being. To empathize with this character is wrong, especially if you've read the comics and know all the crap this guys done, but in every joker story there is a sense of failure in the people around Arthur that suggests that maybe if someone would have helped him, this never would have happened, which is explored in batman comics, as in the traditional origin of joker, batman fails to catch him before he falls into the vat of chemicals that finally turns an already broken individual into a super villain (weird, but that's what comics are like). But the rule always is, it doesnt matter what happened to thr guy up till that point because it could literally be anything or nothing at all. The same themes apply here but can we really believe this? If someone would have given him a kind word would it have really helped? If batman would have caught him, would there be no joker? The answer to this question doesnt really matter, because the joker isn't really a person but an anomaly that occurs regardless of societies failings and successes, regardless of batman's failures or successes, regardless of whether we would give him a kind word or not, regardless of whether we empathize with him or not, (which is a thing that should never happen, as we saw in Mad Love). Definitely wasn't a perfect movie, but at the very end when he dances on top of the police car or whatever, it felt like the purest and most faithful recreation of the character in cinema for me, at least on a thematic level, someone who has nothing to lose, doesnt care about anything, and believes all life is futile and meaningless, (which is not a good way to frame mentally ill people and does perpetuate stereotypes and stigma which is quite inexcusable, but it is a great way to frame the joker) and does it really matter if there is a tragic story behind how he got there? No, and that's the beauty of the joker as a character, he could literally just be a guy who had one bad day and found himself battling a bat-shaoed man for all eternity, do we need any more justification? Deserved the oscar for best actor and music, but that was it, jojo rabbit and parasite were definitely more coherent overall.

This is one of the best videos about this topic I haven seen. You made cogent points and drew facts to what the writers, directors and producers overlooked in the film. I am not saying it is a completely bad film and yet at the same time, it could have been much better. For me the multiple threads is what did it for me in terms of losing me through the film. The mental illness issues, though never really fully suffering them myself (at least without a proper diagnosis), I can empathize with. That being said, they took the cop out to use the stereotyping of mental illness = violent, which I fully agree with you, is not a direct relationship at all. There are multiple sides to all of this (the movie, mental illness, violence, human connection, the state of society etc), of which a YT comment section cannot be the right avenue to discuss. For what it is worth, this was a well researched and made video and you should definitely keep up the videos. I would not expect one everyday, but quality requires time and I would be willing to watch more of your videos when they are produced.

If you put on your They Live glasses, this movie just says "MENTAL ILLNESS CAUSES SCHOOL SHOOTINGS: WE DON'T NEED GUN CONTROL"

duuuuuuuuuuuuuuude. amazing video. its a class on movie analysis, a deep honest look at mental illness depiction in midia and an amazing explanation about some aspects of mental illness that can help a lot of mofos. thanx for this

Do you have Tourettes? Because I do, and everything you said about the tics hit me hard. I struggle with my tics and how much they make me feel out of place and can even hurt. I just want you to know that you are not alone. And if you DO have Tourettes, we are not broken. We got this, friend.

This video is a good articulation of my own - biased - frustrations with Joker. I'm not going to fault it for its technical execution, decision to frame it as a tragedy, or judge it for being dark. But I'm really, really, really tired of narratives in which Mentally Ill people are beaten down by society to the point where they become "monsters". Not only is it not demonstrative of my experience with mental illness, but it's also not for mentally ill people. It's for people who look at Mentally ill people in a play for sympathy. It's so common and utterly cloying, which is why Joker fell flat for me, and why its particular brand of cruelty upset me so much. At this point in my life, I'm more interested in stories about mentally ill people that actually make them the heroes of their stories, rather than as perpetual victims who become monsters. Or stories in which the mentally ill are given some kind of agency that doesn't involve guns and retaliatory violence, that is then gussied up with political theatre messaging about class warfare. The structure of which in this film makes it seem like the fact that the Joker becomes...the Joker a comprehensible, morally understandable way to deal with the shit hand he's been dealt. The stories that have helped me heal and become a functional, healthy person were not those cruel depictions. They were the stuff like Crazy Ex-Girlfriend or Mob Psycho 100, in which the mentally ill (literally and metaphorically) have agency and are shown compassion, and make their own healthy choices. Great video, my friend. Good work.

As someone who has struggled with depression and I am diagnosed with general anxiety along with dyslexia and add which all feeds on each other I totally agree with this video and your conclusion just because you have a mental illness does not mean you're going to lash out at people and you're more likely to lash out at yourself which can very easily spiral if you don't have a support system

I just discovered this video after finding your video on GO and Knives Out (which I also found fascinating btw), and I am so thankful that you put the considerable effort into this project, including reaching out to your guest. When Joker came out, I avoided it hard because of the things I heard about it, and as someone with a lot of mental illnesses, I really worried about the outcome of this movie. It didn't exactly inspire mass murderers, but it always felt sideways to me the way that it talked about how being poor and traumatized can cause someone to spiral, how being isolated can impact your mental health. And yet it always comes back to the spectre of violence. There is more to mentally ill people than the potential for us to behave violently, and the stigma that we might is a big part of it. That's why de-stigmatization is such a big part of the neurodiversity movement, because we can't just get better in isolation. (also gotta thank you for calling out how Arthur's social worker treats him, it reads as very callous and coming from a place of exhaustion - which while a real thing PSW/SWs face, isn't something you should highlight). This is an amazing video, I can't recommend enough.

the idea of a man saying "people are too offended these days, all the good comedy writers are leaving", and having his movie lose to a movie about a boys imaginary friend hitler is such poetic irony, and i love it

Sooo...Toddy-boy basucally says he cannot write comedy because he gets so offended by people getting offended?

"hi" ;P loving all your videos so far so I'm sure whatever else you decide to throw out into the internet will also be great and I will probably love it too.

Came back to this video years later after the film was assigned to me in a class. Gonna rip it a new one.

I am so sorry you endured so much trauma in your life. I've been in some dark places myself and I have to take medication to this day to help me function on a day to day basis. This was an amazing deep dive, but despite the flaws you pointed out and otherwise wouldn't have seen or known about, it's still one of my favourite movies of recent years. Also I adored Jo Jo Rabbit. Or as I like to call it, Calvin & Hobbs with Hitler. Or, Calvin and Hitler, if you will.

Found your Pirates video first. Really like this take on Joker. The movie made me uncomfortable and I think you really hit on why. Thank you.

“The boy is ok with it.” I wish those words appeared on the screen like a giant watermark during the entire sequence.

I'm so glad you made this video. Yes it's old but it sums up everything that I found disturbing and abhorrent about Joker. The amount of people who are STILL trying to talk me into watching it because 'it's so good at talking about mental illness' is staggering. As someone who is a mess of mental illnesses and comorbidities, this is exactly what I DON'T need now or ever.

Wow! This was powerfully vulnerable! Thank you so so much.

As a person who has suffered from mental illness my whole life, while I was watching this video I kept thinking, "This guy is talking like he knows what he talking about." He obviously does and I appreciate his honesty more than I can say. I had to come back and edit this post to talk about "seven different" medications. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in my teens after a severe manic episode. That was in the 80's (yes, I'm old, so what..). There were not seven different psychiatric meds available in the 80's that could possibly be taken together without fatal results. It wasn't like it is now where you take a nice little antidepressant your P.C. gives you and life gets better. Those drugs were heavy and awful and I often thought it might be more comfortable to just be crazy. And the crazy was fucking painful so that says something. I thought I was gonna watch a video and get a few laughs. I was wrong....but that's okay. I didn't get a few laughs but I do feel like I got seen for a change.