Tried something a tiny bit different and this time we're looking at a whole game overall instead of a single map! Shadows is still coming soon, it's half done already, but while we wait: what are everyone's thoughts on Black Ops 3? It's a lot of people's favourite game, but is that only because of the story and the maps? Do people love the underlying mechanics too? I'd love to hear what you think!
@joaquincastillo2922 Жыл бұрын
Great analysis!
@bubalackgaming8892 Жыл бұрын
Personally I really disliked how buggy BO3 tended to be compared to the other games, but I love the core mechanics enough that it makes up for it imo
@kotanisla Жыл бұрын
overrated zombies game but doesnt mean its bad because its still a lot of fun
@slavkun8706 Жыл бұрын
The only thing I didn't like about Black Ops 3 was the overall difficulty and complexity of the new maps. It made it very difficult for me to get my friends who were unfamiliar with zombies to give it a shot long enough to get the hang of things. Zetsubou and Shadows are obviously the biggest offenders here.
@davidsplooge14 Жыл бұрын
@@bubalackgaming8892 it's been the opposite for me, other than some random disconnects from servers it is noticably much smoother and bug free than bo1, which I last played on.
@aceskeletonne7446 Жыл бұрын
im surprised you didnt mention sliding and slide jumping, a pretty simple addition that had a massive effect on player movement, it mightve been a bit too powerful but slide jumping in bo3 was a really fun way to traverse maps
@ijumpshrooms707 Жыл бұрын
It is the only way I travel in most maps in bo3 zombies. When they nerfed it in bo4 and onward it's really only used now for squeezing past hordes while training.
@ijumpshrooms707 Жыл бұрын
Comparatively to bo2 zombies where sliding really wasn't needed when base movement speed always felt faster than bo3. Zombies also were easier to juke compared to zombies modes after bo2.
@xXXxblackwolf Жыл бұрын
Another small but important change was that sprinting in bo3 didn't cancel your reload, so you literaly could be te entire time playing jumping, sliding and sprinting, giving it an amazing dynamic feel. In a game where camping is so easy with every weapon being viable, you want to be moving around all the time
@ZipDoomTide Жыл бұрын
@@ijumpshrooms707 We didn’t have sliding in BO2, only prone diving.
@ijumpshrooms707 Жыл бұрын
@@ZipDoomTide I meant compared to BO3 with "it's" sliding extra movement options weren't really needed when the base movement in BO2 was all you needed.
@CloudBringer Жыл бұрын
I think double pap is a great addition because every gun that wasn't a wonder weapon was useless after round 50 on older games
@imoffendedthatyouareoffended Жыл бұрын
Sometimes way before that xD
@dylan7919 Жыл бұрын
It also makes earlier guns wayy better. RK5 with dead wire resets so much faster that it becomes a viable strategy for high rounds on a lot of maps versus something like the Dingo.
@davidsplooge14 Жыл бұрын
@@dylan7919 but the ammo count and the 4500 price though, the pap'd rk5 is really good but your average zombies player (like me) will probably rely on a much safer option that has good base damage without aats and more ammo.
@alexbasha0508 Жыл бұрын
I would even say they most weapons from WaW to BO1 definitely struggled past round 30. Only weapons like Wall weapons (can buy ammo obviously) Browning, PPSH, MG42, HK21, RPK, Commando, AUG and Galil were viable in terms of getting decent amount of kills. Then along came Double Tap 2.0 and actually helped a lot of weapons to where most COULD be used past round 30. Where they can be used at round 40 and even round 50. Wall weapons imo in BO2, like the MP5, AK74u, Remington and M16 were used a lot on Tranzit. AN-94, PDW-57 and SVU sniper became so well known as wall weapons because they were sooooo damn good. AN-94 being arguably the best Assault rifle for it being a wall weapon, being strong and having so much ammo (50/600 when PaP’d) SVU basically the best non-wonder weapon, getting kills at round 50 was no problem.
@LateNightHalo Жыл бұрын
On the flip side-now nothing matters; there’s no “bad box rolls.” Every gun can be a wonder weapon thus the wonder weapon itself is no longer “wonderful”
@dylan7919 Жыл бұрын
I absolutely loved the mechanics of upgrading guns and attachments. It was a grind getting all of the guns' attachments and fully leveling up every gun, but it's nice being able to control what sights they have and how they operate instead of BO2's randomness.
@Halofan-ey3ul Жыл бұрын
I think it would be better if you just unlocked the kit, and all the weapon xp you gained beforehand automatically went into attachments
@zygoat2369 Жыл бұрын
@@Halofan-ey3ul Yeah it sucks when you get a lot of kills with a certain weapon but you don't have it unlocked yet so you don't get any exp for it
@jackhack420 Жыл бұрын
Having a mastery camo for unlocking red hex for all weapons, if not a category of weapons. That would’ve been a great addition.
@davidsykala5336 Жыл бұрын
@Jack Hack They did that in Cold War I think, but yeah, BO3 Zombies was definitely lacking in terms of the Camos
@EpicGhostShadow Жыл бұрын
@@jackhack420 yo fr
@ClonedGamer001 Жыл бұрын
On the topic of Gobblegums that absolutely broke the game: Near Death Experience. "Revive or be revived simply by standing near other players. Revived players keep all their perks, including Quick Revive." In multiplayer it at least pretended to be balanced by needing another player nearby, but if you were playing solo, as long as you had Quick Revive, you literally couldn't die for four rounds.
@imoffendedthatyouareoffended Жыл бұрын
Kinda nice when you are stoned or drunk with your buddies playing like shit xD but yeah solo it was broken
@Jozombies115 Жыл бұрын
I hate seeing people use near death to cheese boss fights like Nikolai or the giant keeper. The fight isn't fun if you know you can't lose.
@N-GinAndTonicTM Жыл бұрын
@@Jozombies115 It's Black Ops 3, my guy. Near Death Experience is like a single shred of cheese, in a 500g bag of shredded cheddar.
@justanegsfan Жыл бұрын
you can always just ignore it and not use them
@ClonedGamer001 Жыл бұрын
@@justanegsfan Sure, but you cant control if anyone else does, and you can't opt out of being affected
@electricchoerry Жыл бұрын
i'd still play zombies even if there wasn't an xp system, but i appreciate it because it feels like my progress is going somewhere and not just disappearing into a game over screen
@thatguymichael595 Жыл бұрын
Yeah like I dont get his perspective on that at all. Yes zombies can stand on its own but how is being rewarded on top of that great gameplay not strictly positive?
@fasthink864 Жыл бұрын
Another problem with gobble gums is that it’s not clear when people are using them. It might sometimes be better to let a player revive themselves, bleed out, or get revived by another teammate, in order to keep their perks. If they can’t communicate they’re using one of their mega gobble gums to you, they’re losing their perks/weapons in addition to their gum, incentivizing leaving games. It would be nice if they had added an icon next to a players score that displayed active gums, so that players had a chance to learn what they do (and when they’re being used) without needing to use gums themselves. It would also help players decide whether or not certain resources are necessary in emergency situations, or just strategize in general, without the use of traditional methods of communication. It’s often vital information that’s hidden from players.
@General_C3 ай бұрын
A few of them have special particle effects (Near Death Experience comes to mind) but that's not much...
@Deathwarrior115 Жыл бұрын
My biggest problem with bo3 is how they made the zombies hit WHILE RUNNING AT YOU ! You seriously cant tell me it was tested ... like seriously all those og clutches that people used to do on motd for example are just gone . You cant do that anymore because 2 zombies running at you hitting you in close corners without widows or a shield WILL ALWAYS DOWN YOU ! Atleast custom zombies exists :)
@PHDavid2 Жыл бұрын
Yeah I hated so much , if you dont have a shield you die , that’s happened in ZM chronicles, the old maps doesn’t have shield so you die so easy with 3 hits
@benc77 Жыл бұрын
They added this because you can take a extra hit, il admit it’s not perfect but it would make the game even easier if they used old zombie mechanics
@PHDavid2 Жыл бұрын
@@benc77 the old zombies was balanced, there was no need to add more difficulty, casual players are not ok with those new zombies
@Deathwarrior115 Жыл бұрын
@@PHDavid2 facts
@Deathwarrior115 Жыл бұрын
@@benc77 its not about difficulty its about broken mechanics lol
@sethisevilone02 Жыл бұрын
I've never had more fun in a cod zombies game mode then bo3s
@TheAerogost Жыл бұрын
My one issue with BO3 zombies is the sound. They somehow made the zombies feel everywhere and nowhere at the same time.
@hyanehighoctane Жыл бұрын
I personally despite the weapon kits system in BO3 and onwards It basically killed off unique PaP variants that were such a cool thing in BO1 and WaW. Starring BO2 most guns had random attachments but there were still a notable few with different firemodes and functions. Now 3 games later in CW, the classic 1911 doesn't even fire the explosive rounds it came known for in Zombies
@blueberryfizz3400 Жыл бұрын
I might be on my own but I really like the progression stuff, especially as I’ve gotten older I’ve drifted from roguelike type of games as I have a strange “what’s the point” sort of feeling in my mind. That little bit of progression let’s me feel a bit better, that even though I failed a map or it’s EE that it wasn’t for nothing, that I got something from it. It kinda gives me a drive to play a bit more as my progress won’t be reset to 0
@joeycommet45 Жыл бұрын
Dashboarding is a good exploit to save and collect gobblegums. But I agree that doing it with others is lame and should only be done in solo.
@swaggadash9017 Жыл бұрын
Most people just quit when they CBA going anymore rounds anyway 🤷♂️
@jonahbehnfeldt7093 Жыл бұрын
For me, just leaving the game gives me back my stuff if I ever have to go. And so I don't have the fear of disconnecting others' game.
@TheIlumintor Жыл бұрын
Black Ops 3 Zombies was great despite of his flaws because if you play this game on PC, you will have blast with the workshops and mods, if I remember correctly this is the las COD game that developers actually gave the community the tools to create their own multiplayer experiences in terms of both MP and Zombies.
@RuinZvfx Жыл бұрын
been loving all of these zombies retrospectives man keep up the good work! crazy to see how fast your channel is growing too haha
@marcusstrymon693 Жыл бұрын
For good players in plain sights is gamebreaking. I have done the Gorod EE in 1h 19 min without gums and maaaan... The one gum I missed was in plain. The only thing that would have made it MUCH harder would have been no shield or no jugg or no mk 3 (bc mk3 literally makes valkyre step and mangler step so easy as well as killing nikolai)
@swaggadash9017 Жыл бұрын
Yeah, one of the best gums is a free gum 😂
@marcusstrymon693 Жыл бұрын
@@swaggadash9017 Yeaj absolutely busted 😂😂 get out of jail free card. I played bo3 kinonrecently splitscreen with 2 old school bo1 friends and when they realized, they literally started relying on in plain as a crutch
@SirPrincePerson Жыл бұрын
I disagree with a lot of the points made here. Mega gobblegums are dummy broken, yes, but they're extremely rare and valuable so 9 times out of 10 you won't be using perkaholic or shopping free, ect on a map and will be experiencing the progression exactly as intended. Yes, some people will cheat for infinite ones and spam them relentlessly, but they're actively choosing to ruin the fun for themselves. On AATs, they _absolutely_ do NOT take away from the specialness of regular wonderweapons. They have a (usually quite long) cooldown making it so that they are an unreliable source of killing unless you're using a high-round training strat where that is your sole source of survival (at which point you're probably a good enough player that having a WW or not doesn't matter) , and they have a much smaller range of effectiveness meaning not only do you have to wait to be able to activate the ability, it's usually going to kill far less zombies than an actual wonderweapon would. You say it makes the WWs of BO3 far less sought-after or iconic, yet BO3 has some of the most iconic wonderweapons in the series since the thundergun. And on it "only" being 2500 to double-pack, yeah that's not that much in itself but you have to also add on the fact that you have to already have pack'd your weapon, and then the AAT you get is random, making it often take FAR more than 2500 to get the one you want. You also praise the specialist weapons, which I want to point out basically act as an extra wonder weapon every player can carry that, yet again, is far more powerful than AATs. All this without even bringing up the point that AATs are so much fun for both casual and hardcore players! For casuals who can't rely on them to survive, still being able to turn zombies into allies, or blowing up a zombie in an array of fireworks is just straight up fucking cool and fun. For hardcore players it MASSIVELY improved high rounds, you don't have to rely soly on traps or wasting dozens of hours trading out your WW in the box over and over again due to the restricive ammo anymore, you can actually use your other weapons once you run out of ammo in your WW now, and it still takes skill to manage the cooldowns for small bursts of infinite damage, unlike later games like Cold War's awful approach where every weapon is straight up just a wonder weapon. Love the content, just wanted to give my viewpoint on these points I feel are rather unfair
@whitecliffgames Жыл бұрын
Appreciate it, love hearing everyone else's thoughts and I don't mind being disagreed with! Some great points, and I definitely agree especially with AATs not totally filling the niche of wonder weapons because of how they're not 100% reliable in emergencies. And great point about how they *do* in fact have value for both casual and hardcore players
@dylan7919 Жыл бұрын
I totally agree with your points. It also really balanced out something WaW had that changed in BO1: the number of zombies per round. Getting a high round on WaW was basically a race against the game crashing, but having a max of 24 zombies per round.. easy. Every high round on BO1 and BO2 relied on traps, some sort of glitch, or both; As great as those games were, they were buggy. BO3 has its glitches for sure, but most of them are used for speedruns while the high rounds are really just skill of playing the game as it's intended. AATs were the answer to balancing the game from the precedent WaW set to how the series and mechanics evolved.
@jonasstrzyz2469 Жыл бұрын
@@dylan7919 As someone who has done high round for WaW (Shi no numa) BO1 (shang, Moon, Ascension, Cotd) and BO3 (Zetsubou, SOE) I really want to know what glitches that BO1 high round rely on. Do consider spawn control or the zombies collidding into each other to be a glitch? Because I am not sure, but these aspects seem to me what makes BO1 high rounds fun. AATs are nice to, but due to spawn control not really being a thing and the zombies getting literally getting stuck on each other it feels like trap strategies are dangerous and not really viable on almost all BO3 maps. I am not saying that AATs should be nerfed into the ground *cough, cough BO4 - but the zombie mechanics of BO1 are the most fun for high round.
@dylan7919 Жыл бұрын
@Jonas Strzyz that's kind of my point is that trap strats aren't needed on BO3. I think BO3 compensated the power leveling of the player with the hoarde per round change that we saw from WaW to BO1. OG Kino is just running fire trap, CotD doesn't even have a high round (no one has broken 100). Moon gives you a good amount to work with, but I think Shang is the best exemption, but this is also solo play. If you don't get the Thunder gun in Ascencion, you're on a clock to when your guns stop working. I just think AATs helped to break the Meta, making playing higher rounds with friends something a bit more balanced. And.... we dont talk about BO4 lmao
@jonasstrzyz2469 Жыл бұрын
@@dylan7919 Yes, especially the coop aspect of high rounds with there only being one infinite damage wonder weapon on most most maps. This is obviously done for balancing purposes but it results in high rounds being more difficult and requiring the additional coordination of combining hoards.
@LateNightHalo Жыл бұрын
Unfortunately I don’t think that bo3 “overcame” it’s game design. The MTX broke matchmaking. I also found the the zombie ai to be easier to handle. Comparing the flow of WAW/BO1’s Der Riese to Bo3’s Giant is like a night and day difference. Bo3 zombie AI seems to take ages before they ever put on the pressure that could be experienced in WaW/Bo1 early rounds
@SgtTankDempsey Жыл бұрын
I have so many rare gobble gums because I always just used the classic gums
@locosword3985 Жыл бұрын
Me: “Gobblegums are overpowered and the biggest flex is not using them and makes the game fair and balanced!” Also me: *Uses Gobblegums since i know my dumbass can’t even upgrade an origins staff without them in solo.
@matthewboyd8689 Жыл бұрын
Gobble gums: It would have been perfect if they had one gobblegum that wasn't a consumable and gave you a random mega/consumable one One like that did exist in the game but it was also a consumable, although it did give you two or three different gobblegums out of it. Would have been perfect.
@Chrisey96. Жыл бұрын
I wondered where you'd gone. Nice to see you my recommended again 👍
@TalleyBellum Жыл бұрын
The red hex grind was still fun for me tbh It didn't have any stupid challenges that were a bit weird or didn't really make a lot of sense. But red hex being as simple as "hey get like alot of kills" was a fun way to go out of your way to try a weapon that may not have exactly been the best. Earlier games didn't really have this so I never really went out of my way to use certain guns in other games
@ariaether Жыл бұрын
man i love your retrospective videos! this was well done and i agree with most of the points you’ve made, however this is still my favorite cod game in terms of zombies. despite its flaws, it was such a great game overall
@whitecliffgames Жыл бұрын
Absolutely, I don't think BO3 is a bad game because of any of this and that's not what I wanted to say; if anything it's even *more* impressive that I still think it's so fun no matter how much I disagree with some of its underlying systems!
@ariaether Жыл бұрын
@@whitecliffgames so true :)
@boofpeanuts6960 Жыл бұрын
ghosts didnt start that trend. bo2 did with the peacekeeper
@da_pikmin_coder836721 күн бұрын
The Gobblegums are one of the few times I've actually been okay with a "pay to win" model. These models often kill multiplayer player bases, because you have the winners who buy all the microtransactions to get that edge over you, when you're just trying to get good with skill. But Zombies isn't a versus mode, it's cooperative. And you don't win, you just last longer. As someone who wants to earn those high rounds in zombies, I don't buy any Divinium, and usually only use classic Gobblegums. I know getting to round 30 or higher isn't impossible without mega gobblegum, because half of the maps came from games that had no gobblegum at all. If I'm in a public lobby and somebody happens to have some crazy overpowered gobblegum on them, it's just a rare treat for me. And occassionally, I do earn enough divinium to get some for myself. It's never enough that I can just cheese the game, but that's the way I like.
@sackettandres94574 ай бұрын
The weapon kits are highly underrated putting fast mags on an lmg is game changing
@jakebusch1638 Жыл бұрын
Gobble gums are no problem on the PC with that MXT menu. Unlimited megas
@austinkistler8924 Жыл бұрын
Shadows is a masterpiece. No other map tops it
@bobthebuilder9509 Жыл бұрын
Respectfully disagree. I think it was a tedious map that both nearly killed off my interest in the zombies franchise as a beginner, and takes too long to set up as a hardcore fan. If I want to play a map for tedious setups but a high payout, I go Origins. If I want a map that’s easy to set up, I go for The Giant. The in-between is Der Eisendrache, one of my personal favorites. If it was a DLC map, I think it could have been alright. However, I think The Giant should’ve been the on-disk starter map, because Shadows is so hard to access for the average player (try and get them to unlock PaP or anything without a guide!) and probably turned off other newbies like I was to the Zombies franchise.
@kingofgrim4761 Жыл бұрын
@@bobthebuilder9509 it essentially had a similar set up to MotD which you also almost needed a guide to get to PaP for. Shadows is a bit tedious but compared to origins, has less setup time for a greater payout.
@gamermanzeake Жыл бұрын
@@bobthebuilder9509 Anyone that argues that Shadows was tedious, but loves Origins and Mob, is a hypocrite. Both of those BO2 maps are far more tedious and far less rewarding as they're both on a far less forgiving system. I enjoy BO2 more than BO3, but there are undeniable issues with arguing that one kind of tedious is better than another kind of tedious... They're both tedious.
@WastedPotentiaI1 Жыл бұрын
@@gamermanzeake id argue origins is more rewarding then shadows.
@bobthebuilder9509 Жыл бұрын
@@kingofgrim4761 I didn’t mention Mob for that exact reason, yeah. I’d say Origins has a better payout though because you get 4 upgraded staffs for each player, whereas in Shadows only one player gets the overpowered Apothicon Servant whilst the others have to rely on the Sword and hit the box for Arnies. *EDIT*: As for Mob, yeah you probably needed a guide to get the whole experience. That said, I think it has much more contextual cues that make it easier to get through a bit of the map even without a guide. The cast will comment on the “ESCAPE” poster, the hellhounds, and even the starting room makes you aware of the power boxes and hidden areas.
@kingofgrim4761 Жыл бұрын
Yeah the main problem I think was the games changes made it much easier and lose most of that sense of progression. Artificially limiting yourself to not use gobblegums Is available but I prefer to use what the game has to offer most of the time. Especially when gobblegum is accessible at the very start of the game. No power turning on, just in the starting room or next room over
@chsoccaerstar42_37 Жыл бұрын
I don't understand this line of thinking. You are basically saying I don't like this but I'll do it anyway. If you don't like GG then there is nothing at all forcing you to use them (ignoring the zersubou egg but you can very easily only use them for that step) but there are also plenty of people that enjoy this mechanic. It just adds more ways to play the game which I only see as a positive.
@kingofgrim4761 Жыл бұрын
@@chsoccaerstar42_37 if you need to artificially reduce the content in the game in order to enjoy yourself then there is a flawed mechanic. Also as mentioned in the video, playing with randoms you are nigh forced to use gobblegums or have it change the entire game. Zombies was always a progression based survival game. Instead of skipping 99% of the progression in the first few rounds.
@chsoccaerstar42_37 Жыл бұрын
@@kingofgrim4761 well public matches have always been the vast minority of zombies games but as I stated in another comment I can understand how someone could find that annoying. I don't see how artificially limiting yourself is an issue though. I often do starting room challenges, does this mean that having more than one room is a flawed design? Having gobblegums allows you to play the game in more ways without taking away any aspect of the game if you don't want it to (unless you are playing pubs). Also, if you don't pump money into the game or use exploits you won't be able to use the overpowered gobblegums in most of your games. This makes it so the games where you do end up using them are rare enough that it doesn't ruin the overall experience imo. I still don't see why it is an issue to have more options on how to play the game though. Like I said, there is nothing stopping you from avoiding gobblegums altogether while there are definitely people that just want to play the game casually that enjoy them. Having them as an option allows everyone to get what they want. A good analogy for this is I don't like to use shotguns in multiplayer since it drastically changes my playstyle to something I don't really find enjoyable. I think it would be unfair to say no one should be allowed to use them though since there are people that enjoy them. Zombies being mostly a private game makes it so how other people play the game doesn't really affect you either so just play how you want and let others play how they want.
@kingofgrim4761 Жыл бұрын
@@chsoccaerstar42_37 like I said, the main problem is the progression being ruined by gobblegums. Avoiding them is just taking out one of the only new things added to the game. To me it doesn’t make sense for the game to make gobblegums available at all times and not use them. It’s a big new portion of the game that you either have to purposefully ignore or ruin the “OG” zombies experience. I think it’s the way it was implemented that was bad.
@chsoccaerstar42_37 Жыл бұрын
@@kingofgrim4761 Well what about the classic gums? Most don't ruin the progression and add a new aspect to the game. You could make the same argument about a lot of the megas.
@DeadHatzGuy10 ай бұрын
Gobblegum single handedly broke BO3 for me, it made the entire game I enjoyable for me as one of the main ways I enjoyed zombies with surviving with Randoms. It’s why BO2 remains my favorite as all the memories I made with randoms surviving or doing an Easter egg in a public lobby was some of the most fun I had. But became next to impossible or completely unenjoyable in BO3. It’s why I rank BO4 over BO3 as even though BO3 has more value and objectively better ratio of good maps vs bad maps since elixirs were more balanced than gobblegum it was more fun since public lobbies were still enjoyable. While I gotta disagree that it overcame it (I’d argue BO4 did) I would say I agreed with almost everything you said here. Excellent video
@willyscepter4734 Жыл бұрын
I think the thing that makes bo3 the best cod is that both Zombies and multiplayer were impeccable
@sethisevilone02 Жыл бұрын
Facts bo3 mp was sooo fun and the boost was done perfectly there
@willyscepter4734 Жыл бұрын
@@sethisevilone02 camos we’re sick tbh I think bo3 implementation of supply drops was sick, just could grind that game day and night either mode🔥🔥
@sethisevilone02 Жыл бұрын
@@willyscepter4734 true the supply drops were way fairer the most modern titles I wish it wasn't a thing at all but it was fair
@willyscepter4734 Жыл бұрын
@@sethisevilone02 yea I’m 50/50 on it tbf I liked the aspect of randomness to supply drops and not having the same thing at the same level as everyone else like especially the limited camos I banged out so hard to get them Always thought it was fun to get stuff people pay loads to get for free
@Victini0510 Жыл бұрын
I really hope you talk about Infinite Warfare zombies after BO3. It really improved and expanded on the BO3 style of zombies, unlike Advanced Warfare and WW2 largely being their own things.
@devinnn0 Жыл бұрын
I think the whole point of this OP gobblegums was so players could concentrate on the EE’s. For average players, specially those who play solo, EE’s can be difficult. Removing the need to spent 5-10 rounds setting up with perks and PAP, helps with the EE process.
@parkerdavis7859 Жыл бұрын
Thank you... so much for talking about some of the intrinsic design flaws of BO3. I feel like a crazy person when I talk about them as "one step forward, one step back" and because the community now is largely on PC, they can just hack in all the Pay-to-Win items and use Perkaholic every map, break the game's balance and any complaints about enemy scaling or map choke points gets absorbed into "just get good or use megas." I don't know your opinion on it, but I think that BO4 handled its microtransaction situation far better. Increased earn rates, talismans, regular deals in the shop, and contracts all gave players who didn't want to spend money more accessibility. And for those that didn't care much about them, the selection of classics was also more well-rounded, removing the more powerful ones like in plain sight, sword flay and alchemical antithesis because of their ability to break up core progression a little bit too much, but adding the more useless megas like temporal gift to play into the small but situationally beneficial nature that they're *supposed* to provide.
@MazeMaker4Life Жыл бұрын
Black ops 2 featured the first DLC gun. The peacekeeper SMG, which was attached to the first map pack for BO2. There was actually talk about each map pack having a DLC weapon attached to it. However I do not remember how much of that is fact or rumour.
@beanman2146 Жыл бұрын
I only use gums for doing the super EE in one run
@Drag0nvil Жыл бұрын
On PC at least matchmaking is in a horrible state. Due to the disconnect to save bubble gums everyone seems to have unlimited mega's. And they basically use reign drops to turn every game into an arcade shooter. Always at least 2 people in the lobby will have game breaking gums :(
@ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh24014 күн бұрын
ive always thought the leveling/challenge/weapon kit system were implemented very well in bo3, although this is with the benefit in hindsight, because theyre not very intrusive on your gameplay. the only things locked behind levels are weapon kits and gobblegums, both systems that arent really needed that badly by the player. theyre more conveniences, you can still very well succeed in a match without them. the camo and challenges were short little things that didnt really take that much grinding tbh (unless you include mega gobblegum challenges but thats an outlier....) contrast this with bo4 and cold war, where in the former you straight up cant use some perks without unlocking them and in the latter a lot of perk effects and equipment are locked behind levels/grinding. these games are very very intrusive to your gameplay when it comes to leveling. i dont have everything at my disposal from the start anymore. its extremely irritating and honestly it demotivates me to play these games. i should be able to hop in a map at level 1 or level 1000 and still have every important tool at my disposal regardless, yet these two games fail in that right. bo3, despite having a leveling system, doesnt fail like bo4 and cw imo. thats why i think the leveling system works in bo3.
@tobyn123 Жыл бұрын
Black ops 2 was actually the first cod to introduce weapons as micro transactions with the peacekeeper.
@Drag0nvil Жыл бұрын
IMO BO3 should have continued what BO2 started,, gamemodes. A classic mode without gums and without secondary pap effects for example. It would have made obtaining wonderweapons more relevant etc and also appeal to the older audience who preferred their game to be somewhat challenging.
@alexmcclenthen8323 Жыл бұрын
you can't even play with randoms anymore due to modders, so for pc users gobble gums with randoms isn't an issue because you can't even play with randoms
@hunterboucher3070 Жыл бұрын
I just got so excited to see the thumbnail of this video!
@matercheff Жыл бұрын
Most annoying thing is with the chronicles maps like shi no numa and vurruckt how they put in the gobble gums but didn’t add pack a punch. They surely only did that so if you wanted pack on those maps you had to get lucky or buy gums. They already changed the maps like crazy with gums why not just let us use pack a punch.
@Robotmudkip99 Жыл бұрын
Yea I agree nacht should have stayed the same but those two I don’t get
@ChronoTango Жыл бұрын
Lol, I’m surprised you aren’t discussing Black Ops 3 BEING the design flaw. Your Call of The Dead story paints the perfect picture too, you can buy the two doors on the upper deck and not deal with that water at all. Is it tactically sensible? The main strat is training at the bottom of the lighthouse, so who cares? I bought jugg, and I don’t need to go back.
@davemacchione3296 Жыл бұрын
the only design positive for me was the double pack a punch. And maybe the three hit down system and was certainly better than the two hit down system which was a pain in the ass in the earlier games. Other than that, I think Black Ops 3 was the start of this removal of all challenge.
@MaytayMaya7 ай бұрын
I always thought they could've remedied the Perkaholic issue by not making the perks have their effect (minus Quick Revive on solo) until the power was turned on like in TranZit and Buried when you used to turbine to power perks to buy them, it'd give you some fragility in the early game until you got power on and all of your perks activated.
@zyavorx Жыл бұрын
Missed the bit where at game launch you used to not get a free gobblegum at round start
@ZitrusV1Retired Жыл бұрын
ty for uploading man
@WayToGoChampАй бұрын
1:56 Not entirely true. Black Ops 2 had the Peacekeeper locked behind a paywall, and unlike in Ghosts, you couldn't acquire it separately from the map pack.
@sebas6812 Жыл бұрын
Amazing videos man, I love them, keep them up!
@joaquincastillo2922 Жыл бұрын
Great video as usual bro! Can’t wait for the shadows of evil one
@laspa0 Жыл бұрын
Same!! I cant wait to hear how everyone hated it since it was a new map but then loved it
@whitecliffgames Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Hope it doesn't disappoint!
@joaquincastillo2922 Жыл бұрын
@@whitecliffgames You never disappoint, my friend! You never disappoint 🤘🏻❤️
@bradleytaylor8330 Жыл бұрын
I always immediately click any new video uploaded. Good work man and please keep it up
@ihavenothoughts Жыл бұрын
This is some really top notch content, I appreciate the effort you put into these videos. Just curious, do you ever plan on covering something other than cod zombies?
@whitecliffgames Жыл бұрын
Thanks! This one series is already taking up a lot of my time so I'm trying to focus on what I've already got going on, but this year I am trying to branch out; did you have anything in mind to suggest? 👀
@ihavenothoughts Жыл бұрын
@@whitecliffgames not really, just getting a feel for the channel, keep up the great work!
@BigSteppa42069 Жыл бұрын
I’ve never actually heard anyone say nah I’m good on the apothican servant I got dead wire bro
@zackwalker1789 Жыл бұрын
When you've finished covering the bo3 maps it could be interesting to see you do a video on custom zombies and the impact it had on the game
@Android-Twenty-One Жыл бұрын
Here me out, BO3 Zombies is amazing and the best one in the series for one reason on PC. Custom Zombie Maps
@bluepeng8895 Жыл бұрын
Let's not forget custom zombies on pc
@kingfatih Жыл бұрын
Gobblegums add gameplay variety to zombies, where you were able to gain more perks on maps - in which you couldnt otherwise or even Pack a Punch in the World at War Maps. Also you can mess around with Power vacuums and Round Robbin in games, when you dont to play a serious game - thats why the progession skips are not a problem or flaw at all. The only problem with them is how people always want to use a perkaholic etc and then just want to close the game, so they dont lose it. You can also as example use Soda Fountain to gain all perks (admittlingly slower) or Extra Credit to have more points and open up the map faster - these two you get more often from your liquid divinium pulls . But people just insist on using Perkaholic/Shopping Free. Adding gameplay variety is a big plus. Another point is - alternate ammo types on your normal weapons really cant replace the way wonderweapons like Apothicon Servant, Thundergun, Lighting Bow, Wulf Bow, Wave Gun, Wind staff, Ice staff, etc can save you with a single shot as long as you have because the AATs have a cool down and none of them can kill 24 zombies. Also you should have mentioned how only 1 person could have gotten the wonderweapon on every map (besides Mob,ZNS and the staffs/bows), so people had to deal with their weapons damage dropoff which makes longer games just boring to casual player and with AATs thats just not longer the case. I mean Ascension, Call Of The Dead, Shangri-La and Moon had PHD + Mustang and Selly which would hold for a while atleast.
@arlentor943 Жыл бұрын
Very valid points. It should have been said in the video ngl.
@whitecliffgames Жыл бұрын
As for Gobblegums; I think they actually *hurt* the variety in some ways. Like, you mention that they let you get extra perks with Perkaholic or Soda Fountain, but the thing is they already had things that let you do that built *into* the gameplay! Things like the Die Rise Jumping Jacks, or Zombie Blood Dig Sites are an actual challenge that you can execute to get extra perks and it's something that *adds* gameplay. The Gobblegums, you just press a button and either get it or have to wait to get it next round, they *lost* some depth there. That said, I do think they aren't all bad; like I said, pretty much all the classics are fairly well balanced and it's always good to get new tools to play with, it's just some of the Megas I think have this problem of being too much. As for AATs, totally agree with you. The fact that they're a little random/on cooldown means that they do have a slightly different use, and the wonder weapons are still valuable for emergencies. There's definitely a niche that isn't totally filled there, 100% agree.
@jonasstrzyz2469 Жыл бұрын
@@whitecliffgames WaW (Der Riese), BO1 and BO2 had spawn control that was entirely based on where the player is on the map as to where he/she looks. The zombies could also collide into each other - which is something that skilled players incorporate into their strategies. Trap and wonder weapon strategies became the meta because there was nothing that could reliable and quickly kill the zombies past round 40. Which is the point at which the Ray Gun and Mustang and Sally require multiple magazines to kill a single hoard. AAT can theoretically save a player in a pinch, but they lack the DPS, instant killing potential or area of effect that something like a wonder weapon has. As such they are not really get out jail free cards serve more the purpose that traps did back in BO1, BO2's Mob of the Dead. Meaning that they allow a player to effectively koll zombies at a steady rate without the skill and cost required to use traps. Unfortunately they got nerfeded into the ground in BO4, rendering them completely useless for high round. Cold War might be seen as an improvement, but there is no point in using anything besides the Ray Gun, the map specific wonder weapon, kill streaks and the ring of fire.
@kingfatih Жыл бұрын
@@whitecliffgames I absolutely agree with you that using "perk gums" take away something from maps, where you gain all the perks without doing the Main Easter Egg. In Cold War and Vanguard you can just buy all perks, in bo4 the most amount of perks you can get is 2 - thats one of few reasons, why the gameplay + maps in those games just doesnt appeal to me. For BO3 I dont get why people use "perk gums" on Origins, Zetsubou No Shima and Ascension (here it is because of the monkeys), besides maybe wanting to do the Easter Egg or they dont know that you can gain all perks on Origins/ZNS. The latter one makes sense to me, because I realized people in map discussions would often only know the basic way or just 1 way to play maps. Besides how differently you can approach to play a map depending on your gumpack (undepending on map and the variety the map itself offers) - I feel like megas also opened the path for a lot of people to go for Easter Eggs, because with those you can start actual steps faster and eliminate Box RNG on a few maps too - and not only to go for them, but also speedrun them and even same for round speedrun. The big megas come more into play here imo. With Soda Fountain you also would actually have the same progession as if you were to play without it on the other maps, where you can have 5 perks at most. I brought Soda Fountain and Extra Credit up (there also similiar gums to them) because it is very annoying/lame and boring that people go in public games insisting on their perkaholic and stuff, then close the game (and most lobbys then crash) - when losing one of the mentioned gums or others like Unquenchable, On The House, Profit Sharing etc doesnt nearly hurt as much. I would agree with you, if you were to say that using the big megas 24/7 or most of the time is very boring too - as I do agree with you that being able to keep megas gums with closing the game or joining a friend is a serious flaw. In your Shangri-La retrospective you called the community "stubborn" when talking about the PAP System on the map and I think that also applies here for the gums.
@lukestarford76082 ай бұрын
Gobblegum on console had bigger issues being that if the host left the game. The game itself would just end as 90% of the time. BO3 failed to transfer host. This was a big issue as people who leave due to as you said. People not wanting to lose their Gobblegum. Its for this reason that I rarely had a complete maps on the game outside of the Giant as people would just leave, especially on Rev and DE.
@Muciatneh Жыл бұрын
Out of all the gums, I almost never used Perkaholic or Power Vacuum after the first time it just feels like cheating
@mrorganic13 Жыл бұрын
@7:50 I busted out laughing that you mentioned the server glitch with leaving a game to keep your gobble gums .
@Yoshimitsu4prez Жыл бұрын
I like the goofy OP gobblegums since I still just play simple wave defence maps like Kino
@spoople_doople Жыл бұрын
This video makes me feel big and round
@poptartninja Жыл бұрын
I am loving these essays on zombies maps, keep it up!
@patrickcarrillo7142 ай бұрын
The 2 things I hated about Bo3 Zombies as an old school player like myself where Gobblegums which completely destroyed progression and skill in general and the Ai of the Zombies themselves I've always hated how unforgiving the Zombie Ai is for Bo3 in previous games when training you could learn the Ai and by mastering the pattern were rewarded by being able to get extremely close to the Zombies and create really good trains and really be able to show the skill of a Standard player to a Good player in WAW, Bo1, and Bo2. In Bo3 they Monkey punch the crap out of you and if you try to train like you did in the games before you would down because of how fast they swung. I never liked that and I know widows wine is a counter to that but I don't want a Crutch Perk plus it replaces standard Grenades making it more difficult to create crawlers and Widows throws off trains themselves because one swipe can cause a complete mess up of the train for those 2 reasons plus the sliding mechanic I really don't play Black Ops 3 and I don't even bother with the Garbage games that came afterward.
@TV-MA.x_x. Жыл бұрын
I think the biggest problem with bo3 zombies and the one that no one seems to get is overpowered against overpowered isn't good game design. There's been a lot of times where I died and I felt that it genuinely wasn't my fault. The AI aggression is exaggerated. I'd rather have a slower paced game where I die in two hits than a fast paced game where you die in 3 but the zombies are so doped up, it doesn't even matter. It leads to a lot of "bs" moments.
@chsoccaerstar42_37 Жыл бұрын
I don't really understand this point, I've never really felt that my death wasn't my fault. You have to plan your routing better, sure, but people wouldn't be able to hit crazy high rounds if the game killed you and it wasn't your fault. Getting windmilled in older games was much less fair imo.
@edab9088 Жыл бұрын
Bo1 kills so much more randomly though.
@Robotmudkip99 Жыл бұрын
@@chsoccaerstar42_37 I agree in bo3. Zombies if I get downed or die it’s because I am being dumb or stopped paying attention.
@celtic19 Жыл бұрын
I’m a big campaigner for gameplay mechanic changes being done on a map to map basis not universally on the engine it lets map test different things and be unique whereas making it universal gives you bo4 where the stuck mechanics make you not even wanna play the best maps on that game Cold War suffers from This to why would I pick one map over another if they all have the same guns, perks and even enemies
@josephringhofer613 Жыл бұрын
Babe wake up new White Cliff Games video dropped
@LockheedF22Raptor Жыл бұрын
I just want the black tar heroin they were smoking when they put near death experience and power vacuum in zombies
@jiggling86 Жыл бұрын
What I think makes the whole change work is the fact that it's completely optional gör the player to use any of the new features
@d2thej115 Жыл бұрын
5:07 chill out bro, it’s just a drink.
@cluckendip Жыл бұрын
"fireworks turning the zombie into a bomb" you mean turret?
@S_t_r_e_s_s Жыл бұрын
There's my favourite Zombies channel. How have you been?
@whitecliffgames Жыл бұрын
Busy! But I'm back on the grind now, hope I can live up to the expectations and keep being one of your favourites!
@Neil_810 Жыл бұрын
It’s funny, I never thought about how gobblegums broke up map progression. It’s probably why I got so burnt out of Zombies. Playing since World at War, BO3 definitely changed how zombies was played
@chsoccaerstar42_37 Жыл бұрын
Just don't use gums them
@willycheez7218 Жыл бұрын
Don't use them... I only use classics, do not experience any burnout besides that which you naturally get from playing a game for a long time
@killo500 Жыл бұрын
i think one day bo3 zombies is gonna get an alt launcher that will completely change the game in a good way, rebalencing gobbles, better anticheat and maybe even a server list. I mean i dont think itll happen anytime soon if at all but a man can dream
@SophieBaybey_VODS Жыл бұрын
Great video as always! I was hoping you'd explore the weapon kits a bit more, I always thought they removed the unique nature of each gun and made everything viable. While in BO2 and below a bad mystery box pull could be a game ender, in BO3 once you've got everything kitted out, every gun has a rudimentary version of double tap and speed cola applied to it. I personally opted to play without the weapon kits because I thought they affected the core gameplay loop so deeply. I also felt shotguns in general were given FAR too much of a damage buff and ended up being a mini wonder weapon right off the bat on every single map.
@whitecliffgames Жыл бұрын
This is very true, BO3 weapons to me are that Incredibles quote where "when everyone's super, no one is." Like all the guns are somewhat viable, so like you said there's never that moment where you get a box roll that feels absolutely incredible or like you're totally screwed. Instead everything is just a little samey
@chsoccaerstar42_37 Жыл бұрын
I think it's important to note that the kits are optional though. If you don't want to use them you have the option not to so adding them isn't really a negative. On the other hand, people that like them can use them which improves the experience for them. Either way having more options isn't really a negative.
@deslardesslok Жыл бұрын
HAPPY PIE DAY EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🥧 6:14p.m. 3/14/2023
@MrKamilNinjaPL Жыл бұрын
About the consumable gums. You don’t need to turn off your console. You just have to end the game to keep your gums
@half-hazard8903 Жыл бұрын
Common white cliff games W
@sdfghjsdfihw Жыл бұрын
i love these analysis videos, so entertaining❤
@marcusstrymon693 Жыл бұрын
Lol i have always horted them and now I literally have about 50 to 100 of any mega. I pretty much never use the ultrarare because they just kill the game. Powervacuum? I d rather go work a few hours than sit there and just spam the gum
@Loris71734 Жыл бұрын
Pretty good video but the whole thing about alternate ammo types making it so wonder weapons aren’t valuable is very silly. I agree that deadwire is clearly overpowered and turned/fireworks are slightly overpowered but saying they are good enough to the point where the bows, mark 3, and even APOTHICAN SERVANT of all things which is the example you gave is silly. The only time that applies is with the KT4 and the wunderwaffe but those are still a lot more reliable and better than the double packed guns as long as you have ammo and you could also attribute the issue to bad wonder weapons rather than double pack being a fundamental problem.
@jacobmstar Жыл бұрын
Great video! I think you can’t really talk about Bo3 without mentioning Zombie Chronicles…this DLC pack single-handily made Bo3 a favorite game for years to come. It added so much replay-ability. Regardless, I look forward to seeing the Shadows video :)
@tannerdodge6029 Жыл бұрын
Before CW came out, BO3 was the one I put the most time into, I got to Prestige Master, but not all the way to 1000
@Dyslexic_Mudkip Жыл бұрын
it actually baffles me that people want gobblegums back
@Valentin-qd4cs Жыл бұрын
Classics were good imo
@chsoccaerstar42_37 Жыл бұрын
I think most of the downsides you bring up about BO3 are totally optional. For example, if you think mega gobble gums are broken, just don't use megas. If you think gobblegums in general ruin the experience of the game, just don't use them. If you think weapon kits make the game too easy, just don't use them. If you think aat are overpowered, just don't double pack. I find that each of these make the game more accessible to casual players and gives the players an opportunity to play the game as they want. None of these are forced onto the player which is the important thing. I find BO3 to be the best zombies game because I can grind high rounds solo if I want, or I can just have a laid back game with my friends that are trash at the game and have a great time either way. Also, I think that although megas are overpowered, they are very hard to get if you don't pay money. You probably get 1 perkaholic every 50 games or so. This makes it so the games where you do use the overpowered gums feel special since it's different from the normal zombies formula. Although you can say modding in megas and dashboarding ruin this, just don't do them if you don't want to. They are unintended mechanics by the developers just like the random pileups you could do in previous games that can ruin the experience but only if you go out of the way to do them. The best part about zombies imo is that it has the flexibility to be played however you want to play it and I think that adding more options only improves the game as a whole, especially since the way others play doesn't affect you in any way (unless you're playing public's but that's always been the minority of the player base). I also don't really understand the point made about the challenges being a negative thing. They are so easy to ignore if you don't care about them as you have to go out of your way to even see them but they add a new aspect to the game if that's your thing. I like having objectives to complete similar to how it can be fun to try to unlock camos in mp. It adds to the experience if you want it to and doesn't really take anything away if you don't go for them.
@willycheez7218 Жыл бұрын
Facts. Adding extra optional stuff is never a bad idea. If you don't have to do it, it's fine
@BestGeb Жыл бұрын
BO3 was by far the zombies I played the least. I think i played shadows a handful of times and found it unfun.
@matthewmurdock1897 Жыл бұрын
Great video that’s why lately I run classic goblegums only now so I’m not over powers you have to run classics for a high round to count legit
@EpicGhostShadow Жыл бұрын
Great video
@chinossynthesizer7053 ай бұрын
Some gubble guns are op
@taxzbo1 Жыл бұрын
I mean it really didn’t, player counts and popularity as the game went on shows that.
@gamermanzeake Жыл бұрын
BO3 did a lot of things right, and a lot of things wrong. Too many on each side, to want to write it all down. However, for something it did well? Double pack making weapons useful beyond the early to mid rounds. I'll absolutely agree it should be far and away more expensive, but there is nothing skillful about high round trap strats. Something bad? Micro-transactions. There is nothing good about that evil in gaming. The three great evils in modern gaming are; Politics pushing, Micro-transactions, and unfinished products being touted as "Live-service." The only people fooled by any of these things, are the suckers born every minute. All are ruining gaming as a whole. All of these are in COD and have been to some degree for years. I'm over it, and long gone.
@heyitsgill_e Жыл бұрын
LETS GO NEW VID
@kainwittrig2180 Жыл бұрын
Can you just mod to get as many mega gobblegums as you can want? Asking for a friend
@ChadKakashi Жыл бұрын
Ah the Black Ops game that I hate the most since I never played BO4 since it ain’t even a game. And I hated every map in this I think, except for Der Riese. Fцск Gobblegum, fцск futuristic guns, fцск the Origins-like maps. I liked sliding and custom maps. That’s it.
@Altaccounttwo Жыл бұрын
the checklist issue is why i hate playing bo4, im always on edge trying to unlock all the stuff like the super long grind for attachments
@reggilad_9043 Жыл бұрын
Thank fucking god you mentioned how ridiculous mega gobblegums are, every other zombies youtuber I know always talk about them like they were some incredible game changing addition when in reality it was literally just a fucking reskinded loot crate
@midnightsnacks327 Жыл бұрын
Just bought zombie chronicles. I have never played these maps before and it is the most fun i have had playing a game in a long time
@Robotmudkip99 Жыл бұрын
I just got it too it’s so fun
@abelbracho3891 Жыл бұрын
Since I'm poor and I can't afford ps+ I can say that the xp levels sistems and the broken gobblegums aren't necessary to enjoy one of the BEST zombie games!! However its a pity that on local mode you can't unlock new gobblegums missing part of the content of the game. If someone knows a way to do this pls let me know!! Anyway, very nice video, I love your content