Well done!!

Currently getting a 7 pc Gretsch Catalina Maple for $500. Marketplace has incredible deals that's for sure. How you liking that Ludwig man?

He's a good man! And I'm always happy to help people with drum stuff!!

Great idea! I will have to look into the cost of that (I don't have the equipment). Will definitely keep that in mind, however, thank you!

Ha! Yeah, it was originally a 12x11, but I cut it down and filled all the holes to drill new ones (it had been from the weird 8-lug per side even though it's a 12 drum era of Ludwig in the mid 80s). So yeah, lots of work on that drum, but I find 6-lugs allow for better low tuning ranges on 12" toms. With the cheap wrap it was doable, and I didn't mind the extra work for a friend of mine. Thanks for the kind words!

Thanks so much for your comments! I always hope to be helpful.

Not really. It is cheaper than in the 1960s adjusted for inflation.

Marketplace is definitely the way to go right now.

I totally agree!

Don't sleep on that Armand...

@@CarlosAnglada😅 2:06

Thank YOU!!

Acrolite is a favorite. Good used ones are easily the best deal in snare drums!

Thanks!

I tend to disagree on the 'choking' topic, but always eager to be schooled if I'm wrong. Maybe you or Sir Joel of the Round Thunder will address this...? Gimme SCIENCE. lol

Ha! 'Sir Joel of the Round Thunder'... I need a T-shirt with that on it (insert my wife's eye roll here ;) Not all snare drum stands are the same, but most that I have used have a fairly significant impact on the sustain of a rack tom mounted in one. It was VERY true with this drum/stand combination. I spoke with David about it, and he didn't really care that much. Said if it bothered him he'd address it later. So far he is satisfied. I have a snare stand that has shock absorbing rubber grips on it for the purpose of 'floating' the drum, and it works better for this than the stand I gave David, so your mileage may vary. It's pretty real though, certainly with cheaper stands that tighten to hold the drum snugly. Thanks so much for your comment!

I recently bought a Ludwig CM pro beat kit with the 13x9 tom and also bought the Tamas “The Classic Stand” for it. I did a comparison between that and the Tom mount it came with (hanging from a boom stand), and sonically there is no difference in sustain. The reason I put it on the stand is because it doesn’t bounce and as a bonus it aesthetically looks much better too.

He does (and he was tickled I actually pieced this video together... I didn't tell him till I posted it).

David has actually decided to rewrap the kick to match. We're going to also rub down the rack tom and kick (when it is rewrapped) with 0000 steel wool to cut the gloss to a more satin finish that will better match the factory Black Cortex of the floor tom. He said he didn't care if they matched, but.... ;)

Thank you for that!

Thank you!

That Innovations thin crash sounds lovely! I've never been a 2002 fan, but I have 18" and 20" Paiste Giant Beat crashes (well... 'multipurpose' cymbals they call them) that are AMAZING, and they're B8 alloy. Yes, Paiste knows B8. If you old enough you might remember Zildjian's first B8 cymbal line, the original AMIR line from around 1984 (later replaced with the ghastly AMIR II line). From what I could tell they basically purchased B8 sheet metal (they were not cast cymbals) and worked them the same way they did their A line. The cost saving was in the purchase of B8 sheet stock, so the cost was very affordable. Unfortunately for them, however, people (like me) actually LIKED them!!! I believe they sold more of them than they anticipated and I am of the opinion that people actually started buying AMIRs instead of A Zildjians, and Zildjian didn't like that, so they discontinued them and introduced a truly nasty sounding line, the AMIR II. That is only my opinion (I have never been told this is true), but I can't think of another reason why they would discontinue what was actually a very useful and successful line of cymbals (rather Paiste-ish, actually) for a trash line. I have owned many original AMIRs, particularly the hi-hats, which are great, tight, musical recording hats. Yes, Sabian making a crap line of B8 cymbals and CALLING them "B8" did nothing to help the perception of the alloy. But I have and play B8 alloy cymbals daily!

Thank you for the kind words. You're right, though if one is doing this for themselves they can expend the elbow grease and wind up with such a kit can be had for under $1000. And as an update, David has decided to wrap the bass drum black to match the toms, and we'll rub down both the bass drum and rack tom with 0000 steel wool to cut down the gloss of the black wrap to match the original soft appearance of the factory Black Cortex of the floor tom. That wrap will put his total over $1000 anyway! ;)

My favs!!

The heads were what I had on my shelf, taken from various drums I have purchased over the years. I believe they were coated Emperors on top and no-name single ply smooth white heads on the bottom (I remember those bottom heads came off 12 and 16 toms that were unbranded and very cheap. I couldn't do anything with the shells, so pulled the heads and hardware to keep. I remember putting the heads on these toms, since budget was a consideration (I didn't charge him for the heads as they were used, though in good shape). As for tuning, I didn't log anything with a TuneBot or such device. I tune by ear, but basically tune tom batters a little below midrange and tune the bottom heads a couple of steps above midrange -- find the spot where the tone is complimentary between the heads. I often detune one or two lugs on the floor tom to get a little feeling of a 'bend' in the tone (and often reduces the sustain of such a large drum to better match the rack tom(s)). Kick is basically putting the head on finger tight (both), press a thumb in the middle of the head and take each lug up a quarter to half turn until the wrinkles disappear, then drop each lug a quarter turn. Front head I will often detune every other lug, so every other lug has different tension on it -- to significantly, just a quarter to half turn each. This seems to minimize the resonance a tad for a little better control. I like the front head to resonate (you usually don't 'hear' it, but it does give a feeling of plushness, for lack of a better word... just fuller, not so 'snappy' or abrupt. More natural. I rarely use much muffling inside a kick... usually a 1" thick piece of foam (packing or soft acoustic foam) that is a square the depth of the kick, so it just lightly touches each head. The internal mic gets the attack, and the external the body/tone. Hope that helps. Thanks so much for being here!

@@drumdotpizza Thank you for the reply. I appreciate your information on tuning ( tensioning). Keep On Rockin'!

He has actually decided to wrap the bass drum black to match the toms and to rub down the rack tom (and bass drum, when it's rewrapped) with 0000 steel wool to dull the finish to the original Black Cortex of the floor tom. Will have to paint the red stripes in the hoops black too, but it'll look nice when done, and all matchy matchy. ;)

Because I drilled the shell myself (not Jon Zoog, who wrapped it). Quite honestly that was the first drum I personally drilled (I normally have Jon do that, but he was helping me out, and I didn't want to abuse his kindness). Bottom line... I didn't think of that! :( And yes... I am a bit of a snare drum buff. Gotta say, though, I love me an Acrolite!! ;)

From looking at the video the mics are 57 on top of snare with Heil PR31 underneath, Audix i5 on toms, and home-brew large diaphragm condenser on hi-hat (in figure 8 pattern). Not sure what's on the kick and overheads (I'm constantly switching mics for various recordings). Most likely D112 inside the kick, maybe a Beat52. Outside would likely be a large diaphragm condenser of some kind (even cheap ones often sound very good/useful out front a kick drum). Overheads were probably Ehrlund EHR-Ms (an odd mic with triangular diaphragm.. they're not cheap, but they sound fantastic and quite natural). Hard to tell, though, but certainly condenser. Room mic(s) would have been ribbons, probably, likely Samar AL95 as I was using those a lot on rooms a year ago, IIRC. Signal path is nothing major -- I hadn't brought any real studio gear into that space yet as I was just getting up and running there. Probably just the preamps on my Midas M32R mixer, which don't really add anything, but are very clear and accurate. Dynamic mics on drums tends to be a round tone anyway, and modeled plug-ins can go a reasonable way to adding additional interest to the tone. I do prefer my vintage preamps, though! Just didn't use them for this video, I'm certain. Thanks so much for your question!!

@@drumdotpizza Thanks so much for the reply :) Along with drums mics are a favorite of mine, so that's a very appreciated breakdown. If you're considering doing any video(s) on mics you certainly get my 'yes, please'.

Good eye! So many great records were recorded there. I really wish I could have recorded there just once before it was demolished... :(

@@drumdotpizza I grew up in Montreal so it holds a special place in my heart. And yeah, the music! 💖🤘🏽

@@robburgess4556 Cool! Did you ever get to work there?

@@drumdotpizza No, unfortunately. 😞

Oh yes... I do quite a significant bit of each, though I try to create a balanced and somewhat natural sound and not be too processed sounding. No amount of either will make a poor drum sound good, however, so the instrument and the tuning have to be solid first. Thank you so much for your kind comment!!

Its facebook.

@@joek81981 Oh, duh on my part. Thank you.

That was a TIMS suspension mount from Drum Factory Direct with a generic L-rod bracket. The clamp with the L-rod that was mounted to the cymbal stand is one I had that was made by Pacific (they sent these with most of their kits in the early 2000s to mount the 14" rack tom in the floor position). I had a couple of these from various kits I have owned over the years, so just used it for this, though ultimately he went with a vintage snare drum stand (lightweight, robbed very little energy from the tom).

Yeah, I'm not too far from you. Feel free to reach out to me on Facebook (drumdotpizza). Cheers!

Catalina clubs have unfinished interiors, yes? Raw mahogany really soaks up high frequencies (a softer wood than maple with a more coarse grain). This is part and parcel to the sound of vintage drums, most notably, perhaps, old Slingerland Radio Kings. It's a sound, and I don't recommend you seal the interior or that will change. With that in mind, and assuming you want a sound something like in this video (I'm guessing that's why you're asking?), anything you can do to increase the HF a touch will balance the tone a bit more, so an impact pad on the batter side (where the beater(s) lands) will help as will NON-specialized bass drum heads (so avoid Super Kicks or EMADs or anything else with built in muffling.) Single or dual ply head for batter, single ply for the front. Tune both heads just above wrinkling (with a thumb pressed into the center of each head) and then back off tension just a tiny bit -- this is a good start. Muffle to taste, but I would recommend only as much as needed to make the batter articulate (let the front head resonate freely to start... a mic inside the drum will hear mostly batter). A mic can be used out front the drum to pick up as much body/tone as you want. Adjust to taste. I hope this is helpful to you. Thanks for being here!

For....??

@@drumdotpizza For some tracks !! I ended up doing most of it myself, but I would consider hiring you for some tracks next time, if you do that sort of thing. Great channel.

I'm in the north Texas area, yes. Jon Zoog is a good dude! Very skilled working with drums too!

@@drumdotpizza cool, I'm out of San Antonio 👍

Good eye! Yes, those are i5s on toms. A more refined 57 in that it sounds more polite on all the stuff you might use a 57 on. Great tom mic, and affordable.

Facebook Marketplace. If you're on FB it's selectable at the top of your homepage (looks like a little building). And I agree on the 14" depth of a 24" bass drum... my FAVORITE!! You'll probably find a good one if you're not in too much of a hurry. FB Marketplace and Craigslist are great for orphan drums. Might also look up Music Go Round (a chain of musical pawn shops, basically... you can purchase online or in person if there is one near you). Also Guitar Center used listings are sometimes a good place to find things. And, of course, there's always eBay and Reverb, though usually the deals aren't quite so good there. Hope that is helpful. Good luck with the search!

@@drumdotpizza thanks for the info.

Yes, I have owned a couple different Rocker kits. The earliest ones (1982-83-ish?) had black/white badges, but used the same classic lugs as their regular classic line of drums. The shells were made with the same veneers as the classic series with two distinctions: 1) toms and snares were 4 ply, not 6 (kick was still heavy 6 ply), and 2) each ply was often made up of more than one piece of wood (more than one seam in a single ply). So a 4 ply shell could be made from 8 or more pieces of veneer first glued together horizontally and then formed into layers in the shell mold. This allowed Ludwig to make shells from remaining pieces of veneers that were cut-off from production of their top line drums -- saving money by using the scraps leftover from other production. This doesn't necessarily mean that they were bad drums, however. Some were quite good sounding. The increased numbers of veneer pieces meant the shells generally didn't vibrate as well as shells made from whole sheets of veneer, but that only really means the shells didn't vibrate as easily, and if you have watched my video on mass in drum shells, you know that such a characteristic is a judgement call as to whether that is good or bad. I will also say that some of the Rocker shells I have played (or dismantled and thumped, really) produced dissonant poly tones (more than one note from the shell). This is odd, but isn't totally unusual for cheaper drum lines, and is, I'm guessing, a factor of the multiple piece construction. Still, I have played some that sound absolutely fantastic (I have a 5" Rocker snare drum right now (an early one.. black/white badge with 8 classic 'bowtie' lugs and natural interior finish) that sounds fantastic!). The earlier ones had natural interior finish, like the pro level drums, and clean seams (often 2 seams). Later they were less careful with the gluing of veneer sheets and covered the visible interior ply seams with a red fleck tone paint. My drum builder buddy, Jon Zoog, sanded that interior paint off of one, and the inner ply looked like a jigsaw puzzle of veneer pieces... it was visibly a mess -- BUT THE DRUM SOUNDED AMAZING!!! I seriously almost bought it from him. So... you just gotta try them to see if they're good or not. The quality varied significantly because of their piecemeal construction, but there are gems out there... you just gotta test them out to know.

@@drumdotpizza Thanks so much for responding and informing me about those particular drums!

I was pleased with it (kinda wish I had it myself... a very 'crashable' ride).

I gotta disagree... quite a different animal than vintage, thick 6-ply Ludwig. I've recorded many SC sets, BTW, and they're not bad at all. A great improvement that can be done to them is to seal the interior wood (all that I have seen have been raw/unfinished). A couple coats of aTung oil blend (lather it on, let it soak in for 15 minutes, wipe off excess and let dry before next coat) is great for this. A couple of thin coats of nitrocellulose lacquer works well too, and dries almost immediately. Not looking for a thick seal or shiny finish, just seal the wood, and higher frequencies will remain in the drum a tad longer before being thoroughly diffused, yielding a livelier tone. Raw wood just soaks up the HF, and leaving wood unfinished is a cost saver commonly used for production of cost effective drums. Thanks so much for being here and chiming in!!

That's wonderful of you to do that for him! I wish you had been my uncle when I was younger (I thought my parents would NEVER get me a drum set, and when they did is wasn't anything like this one! ;) FWIW, I would focus on a quality snare drum and ride cymbal as those are two of the most expressive parts of a drum kit (at least the way I play). Cheaper rides often seem to have only one dynamic, and usually don't sound good even then. A quality, expressive ride is critical, IMO, to developing control for expressive playing. Same for snare drum (I commonly ghost during grooves and do little ruffs and short rolls now and again to spice things up so long as it doesn't interrupt the flow). Cheaper drums and cymbals don't respond well enough to really learn such techniques. Thanks so much for your comment!!

If I understand your question correctly the large hole for Ludwig's 'modular' tom mount was for mounting the tom -- Pearl style (large tube penetrating the shell to the inside of the drum).

@@drumdotpizza cool, thanks a lot for the answer 💪🏻 really love your videos btw

You can find him on Reverb.com under Carrington Restoration. He's in Frisco, TX. Good dude!