We CUT Tricklines - do backups work?

Рет қаралды 29,125

3 жыл бұрын

IMPORTANT - backup your trickline hardware with big enough stuff! We test no backups, small backups and then measure the force on big backups when we cut many tricklines. Our favorite trickline video yet and the start of our new How NOT to Trickline series!
Thank you Olga Henry (@olga.henry), Dylon Lousberg (@slack.dylon) for helping with this episode. Thank you Davis Hermes and Joe Wachter for donating gear for this series!
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Пікірлер: 92

@HowNOT2 8 ай бұрын

Check out our new store! hownot2.store/

@gibbonized 3 жыл бұрын

Happy to see that your test confirm all the ones we did before choosing our back up rope!

@slackline_mx 3 жыл бұрын

so why does it stop working after it seems one shock load?? It's ok if it works one time but i think you should offer something that lasts along several breaks (like another piece of webbing)

@laurentblondiau4274 3 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure this rope can fail easily with longer tricklines like 25/30m =) (edit : Sorry, I'm wrong because it's a surf line so 30m ofc ^^" but not sure if it will hold every time, 15kN resistance for a 7mm cordelette with knots in it looks really high!)

@stephenstreet1045 3 жыл бұрын

@@slackline_mx After seeing what sort of a hit the back-up takes I wouldn't be using any back-up more than once. If it's saved your life once then bin it and buy another one. If you feel webbing is good enough to take multiple shock loads you can just buy more webbing no?

@buckmanriver 3 жыл бұрын

Do you have public footage of your testing?

@toejam6941 3 жыл бұрын

Stephen Street... I agree but then I started thinking about parachutes. Must reuse bajillion times!!!

@flighlinefpv 3 жыл бұрын

I really would like to see the tail backup around the tree since this is what most people will do in my experience. I dont trickline, but I tie off my longlines and highlines like that.

@Diclofenac_ 3 жыл бұрын

Yes! The only thing I really missed in this video. :)-

@wolas00 3 жыл бұрын

would be nice to test different knots, since I've seen quite a few that are used for backups

@callumray4601 3 жыл бұрын

Especially as there was a death recently due to this method failing.

@guernica69 3 жыл бұрын

@@callumray4601You're referring to the incident in Russia?

@callumray4601 3 жыл бұрын

@@guernica69 yes I am

@sarahgmeiner1818 3 жыл бұрын

Philipp on HNTH fb page: "Sweet video!, just a heads up: The enforcer and linescale don't have the sampling speed necessary to capture the shock loads you get in these scenarios. We measured an 80 m longline with 8 kN of tension and a shockload of 25 kN last week. And our linescale still said 8 kN max afterwards.... You need sampling rates close to 2000 Hz, not 50 Hz. Message is still the same, use big ropes to backup your slacklines."!!!!!!!!!!

@sarahgmeiner1818 3 жыл бұрын

we've had many shock loads over 20kN!!!! USE STRONG ENOUGH STUFF!!! btw ;) triloaded alu biners yey what's their mbs with normal pull tests?

@dragoscoco2173 3 жыл бұрын

This is not a short steel cable or a solid bar. The Linescale is enough.

@HowNOT2 3 жыл бұрын

Looking forward to your video on that. I'd love to see if I can recreate it once I have my bigger dynos

@sarahgme 3 жыл бұрын

If you want to know reliably at what peak your backup broke you need a high sample rate 1600 s/s and higher

@dragoscoco2173 3 жыл бұрын

@@sarahgme I can assure everyone breaking happens at +-20% of the backup/knot breaking strenght, you cannot generate higher than that with an impact. The real issue is finding out at what peak force the backup did not break. Fall factor equations still apply, the complicated version of it that uses Energy as input.

@paulisaak7617 3 жыл бұрын

Great test video. I ditched my SI blue backup, as I feared it would perform as poorly as you proved it would. I've been using 1" tubular climbing webbing as my backup. If you ever repeat this video, I'd love to see how it works. Thanks for the video.

@anoniemous2136 3 жыл бұрын

at 8:45 I think (with no real backing) that the knot is what caused it to break, as without the knot it would have pulled through the two D-rings slowing the force more gradually (in a similar way to how dynamic rope absorbs a fall). While that's only a guess on my part I think it would be interesting to test.

@anoniemous2136 3 жыл бұрын

@CorrectHorse BatteryStaple That is a good point, I must admit that I've never looked at the manual till now. It seems a little odd that a company like slackline industries would sell a product that would fail so easily.

@pssnyder Жыл бұрын

Ryan: "Don't scream Olga..." Olga: * proceeds to scream *

@dragoscoco2173 3 жыл бұрын

Slack is key in this case. The backup should be tied before the tensioning or at least marked to not hold the line in tension after the cut. Also force of stopping the rachet is something like a sping force 2xEnergy/distance, which implies that the stiffer the backup the higher the force. I would wager tying a elastic element to the paracord that can stretch about 30cm with about 1000N would render it usable as a chinsy backup.

@artofalpine 3 жыл бұрын

Great work yet again guys!

@johndoe528 3 жыл бұрын

Counter-intuitively, I bet a looser backup might perform better, if it only has to stop the ratchet's momentum - the issue is that if the backup is pulled taut before the slackline has finished relaxing, then the slackline tension itself is being supported by the backup, which will easily snap it. If the backup doesn't get stretched until after the slackline has relaxed, it might stand a chance.

@ChristopherGermain 3 жыл бұрын

The tension of the slackline has a much lower force than the peak momentum of the line when it snaps. I think you want it as tight as you can get it without it holding weight when someone is on the line, but its just a guess

@DavidCruz-yl6ii 3 жыл бұрын

Pretty informative video, please don't stop of making this kind of knowledge public, it is really important to know how to attatch your back ups, more of You are tricklining

@firsttodothat375 3 жыл бұрын

Good stuff. As always

@Andyjamesontheweb 3 жыл бұрын

Favorite channel on YT. I even used my stimulus check to buy some Juno!

@HowNOT2 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome! It should stimulate you as its loaded with caffeine. Thanks!

@gsing92 3 жыл бұрын

Your dynanometer is too slow. We've measured up to 25 kN shock load on an 8 kN longline.

@HowNOT2 3 жыл бұрын

How fast was your dyno?

@sarahgmeiner1818 3 жыл бұрын

@@HowNOT2 1600 samples per second (quoting Philipp?)

@sarahgmeiner1818 3 жыл бұрын

www.ast.de/en/products/force-measurement-technology-sensor-systems/evaluation-electronics/ae-703 This one

@dragoscoco2173 3 жыл бұрын

Long line is not a short line, more energy stored into the webbing. If the above setup was 3 times longer 25kN would be reached.

@sjoerdhaerkens5887 3 жыл бұрын

I don't know anything about tricklining, but wouldn't it make sense to use dynamic climbing rope in the backup to absorb the shockload? Seems weird to me to catch a shockload with static materials. (the one rope you used you called a cordellete, so I'm assuming that it's a static rope)

@tomtom4405 3 жыл бұрын

A 30 foot length of old climbing rope to tie round the tree and through the ratchet sounds a really good plan but not everyone climbs (or has bits of old rope). Edit, depends on ratchet too if there's space for the rope to fit

@laurentblondiau4274 3 жыл бұрын

Static ropes and cordelettes are not static at all! Most of them are stretchier than slackline webbing =) There is a pretty low difference using a static or a dynamic rope for backups.

@JasperJanssen 3 жыл бұрын

The whole point is to keep that big piece of sharp metal from flying toward the user, so deliberately choosing materials that slow it down more gradually over a longer distance seems counter to the goal. Ad absurdum: I could use a big enough bungee cord and I could slow it down to zero speed gradually over 20 meters... very low forces. But also your trickliner dies anyway.

@sjoerdhaerkens5887 3 жыл бұрын

@@JasperJanssen climbing ropes are designed to have less than 40% stretch (otherwise they fail uiaa testing). I don't think that's a dangerous amount of stretch since you will have only a couple meters of rope on there. And I doubt you will reach maximum stretch since you need around 8kn of force for that (I don't think you can generate that on dynamic rope with so little mass in the system)

@tomtom4405 3 жыл бұрын

@@JasperJanssen but you don't want it to snap like the paracord which is definitely contrary to the goal, so having an extra 1foot of stretch might make it safer. You make it sound like climbing rope is a super soft bungee cord when many single ropes have max impact (factor 1.77 80kg mass) of 12kn. Also many of us own rope of various types, lengths and ages already.

@Maco400 3 жыл бұрын

Interesting! I always thought the same about the SI backup, why tie a knot next to the D rings? I thought the idea was that the friction of webbing going through the rings would gradually dissipate energy. But instead it seems the knot catches and the little piece of webbing is shocked immediately. Bad instructions? Or faulty device all around? Hope SI sees this lol

@buckmanriver 3 жыл бұрын

@HowNOTtoHIGHLINE I just sent you $5 for this episode. Thanks for making such great content!

@HowNOT2 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome thank you!

@murderousmidget 3 жыл бұрын

the larger golden scale (the side not being cut) will never show a reading higher than the original tension. the other side can have a spike in tension because of a rapid change in momentum created by the moving ratchet when it stops.

@phil1606 3 жыл бұрын

you think the trucker ratchets do damage? you should see what happens when the harbor-fraught come-along I use to tension my lines goes flying.... the shear pins break around 5KN but thankfully the hardware store poly line i use is the good stuff, 5/8" of course

@McMikeful 3 жыл бұрын

Well done can you try to make your own titanium bolts?

@chadillacinc 3 жыл бұрын

Dang. I would never have thought they would fly that far .

@alexraymont2052 3 жыл бұрын

Love the enthusiasm for breaking stuff. But Ryan, please get some serious goggle style eye protection please!

@emilyvidd8631 3 жыл бұрын

I have a lot of 1" and 1.5" standard NRS buckle style ratchet straps. Could 2 of those work to secure a line under less tension than what you demonstrated with?

@dynamite6507 3 жыл бұрын

You should do a test on tight back ups and loose

@yuzarsif3586 3 жыл бұрын

Love it.

@resiack 3 жыл бұрын

This reminds me of when I was a kid and my dad was using a ratchet strap to pull out a bush with his truck. It snapped and the hook went flying and put a hole right in the hood of his truck and broke his windshield.

@AbsolutionArmament 3 жыл бұрын

I know this isn't a high line thing. But I have some synthetic winch line which is way cheaper than amsteel or plasma. I'm really curious if I could send you some 1/4 for testing to see if it even compares to the legit thing. 50 feet is basically $20-25

@ShurikB93 3 жыл бұрын

God damm, I've been using the industries backup Time to use old webbing Please please do a tie off test

@OutsideSometimes 3 жыл бұрын

The SI webbing did seem kinda weak, thankfully I haven't had to test it the hard way... going to dig out some other crap for a backup from here on out. Given, I'm not doing quite this level of tension but even still... no faith in that stuff now haha.

@chrissonnenschein6634 3 жыл бұрын

Would be interesting to note how much force the Gibbon Backup can hold in the system, after the 1st shock load, say if you were on the slackline and you still have to get to exit point? :: Great Episode!

@RichardBronosky 3 жыл бұрын

I'd like to see how 2 pair of Harbor Freight cam buckle straps do when they are all 4 at different amounts of sag.

@toadamine 2 жыл бұрын

How much does the tension increase when you pump on it though? That's the number it needs to withstand...

@SpAm-AcCoUnT 3 жыл бұрын

Yo Ryan! I have some really poorly kept slings and nuts from the 80s hanging around, as well as some real old carabiners that I don’t use cuz I fear them. If you wanna break em, let me know!

@Andyjamesontheweb 3 жыл бұрын

You know he does!

@kadmow 3 жыл бұрын

Doesn't it make sense that the backup should be dynamic (able to take a shockload) and rated for full strain - with safety factors. Good to see it shown in real world examples. (though the line was "empty" - not a "true" safety scenario except for excessive wind loading.).

@liam7342 3 жыл бұрын

In the UK I have seen a lot of people using the tail of the slack lines as a back up, is that acceptable?

@HowNOT2 3 жыл бұрын

I think so, we will test that on the next batch of "science"

@noah_9886 3 жыл бұрын

5:50 am I sensing a remix here?

@laurentblondiau4274 3 жыл бұрын

How do you remove your backup and release the line with all these kind of backuping techniques? What if one side of the ratchet breaks on the bolt? Or even if the bolt breaks because it is old/corroded (the tension is on a really little part of the bolt creating a good place to have corrosion) I would love to see a test with static rope and knot in front of the ratchet/weblock (it's like a barrel knot but not tght and with around 5 turns) attached to the tree with a tensionless hitch (but not ended with a loop and connector, directly with the end of the rope and a quick releasable knot)

@noah_9886 3 жыл бұрын

If the bolt breaks you’re fucked lol

@laurentblondiau4274 3 жыл бұрын

@@noah_9886 Only if you use backup who doesn't backup everything ^^

@noah_9886 3 жыл бұрын

Laurent Blondiau I make sure to pass my webbing through three bolts I case one of my mates wants to do some slack line tricks with his ford pinto

@dirtbagsinc.1689 3 жыл бұрын

Hey buddy maybe find a seatbelt cutter that you can hang on the line and pull through to cut remotely with a tag line

@GavynPendleton 3 жыл бұрын

I do have concern about the max peak measurement. I’m not sure your Dyno is fast enough, and I have no idea how fast you’d want it to be

@dragoscoco2173 3 жыл бұрын

It is fast enough, this is rope we are talking about.

@HowNOT2 3 жыл бұрын

Getting one soon that is 100k hz!

@dragoscoco2173 3 жыл бұрын

@@HowNOT2 While I think it is unnecessary, this will at least settle the debate about this and validate all previous values obtained. The science of impacts in a highly elastic material like rope is clear as day, but given the variables hidden or unknown I would still put more trust in the word of a guy with a cutter taped to a stick in the park.

@jarodlojeck5150 3 жыл бұрын

Me: "Why don't they back it up with a 5mm whoopie?" Friend: "Trickliners are cheaper than slackliners." Me: "Oh. ... ... Wow!*

@charleszapata1710 3 жыл бұрын

Glad you didn't lose your eyes with that para

@joshstagg148 3 жыл бұрын

i get that it isn't exact as there are so many variables at play, and the tests were too few to make a definite number, and that you are covering your own asses but you didn't really say a definite mbs for the backup, "big enough stuff'' is kinda vague, is 15kn good, is 20 acceptable or should we be using even higher

@ryan-ci3fz 3 жыл бұрын

3 жыл бұрын

Just use another span set for backup and you are safe, it's not that expensive. Btw what is evbg (ebgb..evgv..i don't know :D) knot (1:35)?

@pierreostergren3241 3 жыл бұрын

Mabye use a whoppy sling dynma all the way

@HowNOT2 3 жыл бұрын

how would you connect it? i don't think it would be strong enough if you girth hitched it

@pierreostergren3241 3 жыл бұрын

@@HowNOT2 soft schake around the bolt on the ratchet? I am just think it is easy to rigg. I am doing the girth hitch method on my longline with my 15m whoppy

@simon199731 3 жыл бұрын

Sad to see that you didn't try to use the slack line industry back up without a nut ! Im sure the slippage would have slow down the trickline a bunch , also we all know that nut on webbing reduce strength by about half

@andrewsnow7386 3 жыл бұрын

I'm going for the comment with the most down-votes: Might I suggest you wear safety glasses. That whip you took to the arm could have done a number on an eye.