In a dumb way, their behavior actually makes me more likely to believe they're a small family business, as I've dealt with a LOT of family businesses who have their uncle armchair lawyer as their "legal team", who just go around spouting BS every chance they get.

"We're sorry you decided to be upset by our actions" is such 2010 lawyer speak.

Also, no artist ever wants to be paid in exposure. Because that ain't a thing. Artists have their own catalogs and portfolios. A tiny little mention at the bottom of a photo on some company's page isn't "exposure". It's credits.

I thought I knew every bad / absurd thing they did, but not selling to people with asian sounding names was a new one lol. The fact they named themselves after a product they didn't invent just makes this all 10x better 😂😂

Company caught out doing something illegal: "Don't worry, it was just a mistake!" Gonna use that for my next speeding ticket...

The copyright strike is the reason I don't buy GSW. This latest shenanigan just confirms it.

That was actually a really incredible report on shady practices. 💪

Of course they're apologising for getting caught instead of actually realising for themselves that they're doing the wrong thing, it's why apologies that come out after the drama has already been stirred up and spread around just stink of insincerity as opposed to the person's sense of mortality kicking in and apologising of their own volition because they knew it was wrong. The salt mines are working overtime to produce all those grains of salt we have to take post-drama apologies with, that's for damn sure.

Biggest shame is that, the Sword & Steele crew? Nice people.

The roller and leaf-puncher news hits me especially hard, because those are two of the most prominent tools I've ordered from GSW specifically *because* they were so hard to find. Learning that the reason no one else makes those tools is because GSW patented them *and* that they're stolen by GSW to boot sucks to a degree that I struggle to express. I feel terrible that I never knew this story about the creators who actually made these tools, and that I didn't support THEM instead of GSW. It's also existentially terrifying as a literally impoverished artist whose art side hustle survives on exposure that the very same promotions that I put out can just be stolen by a company like this. If you put it out there, they'll use it without credit. If you don't, no one knows you ever did it in the first place, so how are you supposed to get people to commission you? Needless to say, I won't be buying stuff from GSW anymore. Anywhere else would be better at this point.

The Sword and Steele copyright strike made me resolve to never use GSW’s products. Didn’t know the rabbit hole was so deep. Great video Discourse!

The artwork with the altered colours looks like that one palette swap that nobody would ever give their Tekken character. I really do hate it when companies, particularly whenever their cold calculating decision making fails spectacularly, try to manage the fallout via false platitudes and overly schmaltzy responses - _"in this day and age, every ounce of beauty is needed"_ - go home Green Stuff World, you're drunk! I'd genuinely have way more respect for them if they behaved like cartoon villains, and if their apology said "yeah we stole the artwork, and we'd do it again too! MWUHAHAHAHA!" P.S. I'd actually respect them more if they paid the artists whose work they'd have ideally already asked permission to use, and to stop being colossal copyright abusing bellends, but I guess that's to much to ask for. The absolute audacity of this lot to issue unjustified copyright strikes whilst nicking people's artwork. *_EMERGENCY P.S._* I just got to the part where GSW won't sell to people with Asian sound surnames! Discourse! Tell GSW to stop!

Thanks for looking into this discourse! I was pretty vocal about this situation during my twitch streams around the time, and it was the last push i needed into not supporting GSW. That and their customer service was super rude to me when i contacted them about how terrible their wet palettes are.

Reminds me of Edge magazine and the copyright troll who attacked everyone who used the word "Edge" in their games. Look up Tim Langdell if you're unfamiliar with the story... it's wild.

Hah! The moment I even heard Green Stuff World at the start of this I was thinking about the whole Sword and Steele scandal a few years ago. I was about to write a comment drawing attention to it and then I thought... 'Wait a minute... this is DISCORD! She'll have done her research!' and I was not disappointed. Really glad this latest round of [QUACK]ery can get matched up with their previous round of [QUACK]ery so we can see the pattern. I've personally avoided buying from them ever since that Naomi thing as they weren't particularly apologetic about that either.

If they get away with this who is to say they don't do it again.... or again..... or again we need to keep companies honest and show them we won't support these practices or any company using those practices

According to the USPTO website "Color Shift" is a trademark of a company called Plaid Enterprises, Inc in the US who uses it for their own line of acrylic paint. I wonder if they know about Green Stuff World?

I can't believe there is so much drama in a hobby based on painting miniature figurines

Just in case anyone is interested, a lot of those clips where from Father Ted, an amazing Irish TV show from years ago which is still hilarious. You're welcome 😊

Well done! Keep it up - it's awesome that you're looking into stuff like this.

Great video packed with a lot of useful information. Thank you for looking into this and putting this piece together.

My youngest is an aspiring artist and agrees with you 100%! Artists must be compensated for their work.

You don’t have to be the trademark holder to issue a DMC takedown notice to KZfaq… So if people wanted to issue them to any Green Stuff World videos, on behalf of the green stuff modelling product, I think you could.

Games Workshop:*furiously taking notes*

My friend went into a small game store and asked if they had green stuff, the staff there thought he was asking for weed.

So bizarre, like would it really be that hard to contact the painter and say, hey awesome job, can we use your image on our site?

I'm glad to hear you bring up the whole Roll maker and PK-PRO business. I bet the lawyers of the late artist H.R. Giger would love to see what artwork GSW use for their Alien rolling pins.

The first (and only) time I ordered from Green World Stuff, the order form REQUIRED a phone number. I got a phone call from Russia two hours later. They are definitely selling your data,

"Sauron doesn't get to make that speech." I choked on my coffee. LOL

Pattern of inept decisions which independently could be excused as such, but more than one and it's clear they're an abusive company with no regard for creators or how to engage artists or the community. None of this is difficult - or expensive to do right and failing to do so is a red flag for anyone engaging with them unfortunately.

That's legitimately annoying to me because I like GSW... I want them to succeed, but not if they steal... :(

I'd love to hear your take on the recent marketing pivot by BattleTech. Looks like they are making some good choices with Alpha Strike.

You know shits getting real when discourse didn't even sit down for the video

I'm proud to say that in all my years of modelling, I've never used anything from greenstuffworld. Mainly because I didn't know they existed, but still. And now I certainly won't buy anything from them. A company like that deserves to rot away somewhere. By the way, why did they name the company after a product made by Games Workshop ?

Maybe a Rick Sanchez apology: "I'm sorry you think you deserve an apology..."

Me clicking this video: "GW No!" Discourse: "So Green stuff world..." Me: "Sorry force of habit."

Wow, was tempted to buy a few things from Green Stuff World a while back, now I'm glad I didn't. Had no idea about this stuff until now!

How disappointing. Smaller companies emulating the worst practices of the bigger companies seems to be happening more often these days and it is always the community and the hobby that suffers the most for it.

Yeah I remember sword and steels devastation at the time. gsw is now on my no buy list.

All these things coming to light makes me feel sick that I own both their shifting paints and the roll maker. Going after Naomi is not cool. She's one of the best KZfaqrs in the hobby that no one with any sense would accuse of acting in bad faith just for using a word printed on a product she is reviewing. I'm surprised you didn't delve into the product that GSW released that prominently featured the Black Sun, a well-known Third R31ch icon. When called out they just claimed they innocently Googled "runes" and it came up, so they used it. Supposedly in a process that involves multiple stages of design, approval, prototypes, and manufacture no one noticed an infamous piece of N*zi imagery. Kind of makes their habit of blocking customers of certain ethnicities all the more disturbing.

*knock knock* Discourse: who is it? GSW: Goons ! Discourse: Goons who? GSW: GSW hired goons Discourse: Can I shift this? GSW: aaaaaahhhhhh !!!

Thank you for making me aware of this. My local community has decided to move forward with online content. We'll make sure we omit any product from said company.

Just to add some more fuel to the fire , green stuff world now offers an LED arch lamp and guess what... this lamp has been around for four years now originally designed and developed by a tiny british company called bulldog models. And to make thinks worse green stuff world calls their product the "original" Arch Lamp.

Epic vidéo xD. Instant subscribe. Thanks for your work :)

I'm glad there's finally an english video about GSW practices.

You know, the coulour change thing sounds like the person that was put in charge to fix it was simply too lazy to take a new picture and went with the easiest route. Lazyness is the source of so many issues in our world today, it would not surprise me if this is what happened.

The Anti-Asian thing is something I heard about recently, and the story I heard included accusations that the distributor in Asia was pirating GSW's rollers and since then they have taken this stance when dealing with customers.

It doesn't matter whether they updated the color or removed it all together. They are still using the original digital image. In US courts, this WOULD NOT count as transformative for copyright protection, and we have some lax laws on transformative work. For example, you can use someone's Insta photo, delete their comment(s), print on canvas, and sell the taken image for $100K+

if it's been uploaded to a public page without any copywrite, isn't it therefore public domain??

Trademark works that way. At least in UK: Sky trademarked word „Sky” and Microsoft had to rename „SkyDrive” to „OneDrive”. It is so stupid, but hey - it is a law…

The Drn situation happened a week or 2 ago, and the irony is GSW used the artwork on a promotional piece for piracy...

The good thing is, with WotC OGL comment from today, 50 to 60% of this script can be reused.

i love how theyve been stealing art from games like Legends of Runeterra for years and no body batted an eye

Ah! This probably explains why I was called out for using GSW products on a recent tiktok I made. This explains it all. The more you know :)

At the time of the sword &shield incident, I was so annoyed that how upset they made her over KZfaq strike, I emailed them and refused to buy from them, they dropped the strike due too the overwhelming heat they took, it still took over a year for me to buy from them again, surely the fight was with Vallejo not a small youtuber who unknowingly reviewed an old copy, but they would dare go At Vallejo again, not a soft enough target. If the carry on with this sh1t they will a lot more customers. Please keep highlighting any new problems, as it it helps us make an informed decision. Ps if u see something on their site u like Google the product details and 80% of the time someone else is making the same product. If u don’t want to give them ur money

Most people only apologize when they are caught, unfortunately. Take care and I hope you have a great New Year 😎🤘🍻

Oh man. I have a desk full of their gimmicky plastic gizmos. From the self pouring water pot to the tentacle roller and texture pins. I won't support a business like that. The contempt for the community is clear.

You sooo have to go to dinner with my gaming group. I think we'd all laugh our arses off. Anyway, I'm glad you are covering this type of stuff. I'm going to trademark "Discourse" in the Principality of Sealand. :)

Love the Sauron insert! Your content makes me laugh so much Discourse (and I’m a sourly bastard) …keep it up!

It's a shame they do some interesting and unique products others don't offer but have had a shady history like so many hobby companies.

I love Sword and Steele, Naomi make great videos.

If I knew all that I wouldn't buy a lot of their products.

Isn't "color shift" used in automotive paint?

Green Stuff World. They are the same ones that claimed Vallejo stole their color shift range, but are now stealing artwork. Priceless. Also looking at Reddit and Twitter threads is not an "investigation".

Thanks for the Blue Skies recommend. These are the orks I'm looking for!

Actually the photo of the mini is also copyrighted so disregarding paintjob the photo in itself is cc theft

It makes me sad that companies act like this.

Wait, that's what it was? I ordered something from them before and the order was immediately cancelled then when I sent an email to ask what happened, my email was blocked. I was really confused but decided I should probably not purchase stuff from them if their company doesn't want my money. I was not aware they auto block Asian sounding names.

One of these days a moderately sized hobby company won't be a festering pile of shit. It seems like they're cursed if they hire more than 3 people, all of a sudden they're stealing shit all over the place and at least one higher up is being a sexpest. Also lmao that bit about not selling to people with asian sounding names was masterfully delivered. Just outta nowhere with the unhinged "the fuck is this shit" face and voice.

Great to see them held to account I wasn't aware of this recent one. Do AK interactive next!!!

Almost as bad as the Disney star wars comic stealing art from online creators without credit and getting the original art taken down.

From an indie company, gsw attitude is something that should never exist. Video like yours are wonderful and make people aware of the shit that some companies do is absolutely one of the best way to evolve this wonderful passion in a positive way. Thanks

The fact that GSW has a Trademark on a specific name product for a specific type of material does not grant a Copyright (an entirely different legal concept) on that same name. It solely protects them from a competitor marketing a similar product under a similar name. If someone creates pencils by that name, but not paint, they have no authority. If someone reviews something by that name, their product or not, they have no authority. Of course, that doesn't prevent them from abusing the KZfaq Copyright system, which itself has no penalty for misuse (not even repaying lost ad revenue), a fact which is sickening. Technically, what prevents me from Copyright Striking Disney? Or Marvel? Or even Green Stuff World?

Well it looks like I need to go to another company for the shifting paints I want.

Good enough reasons for me to never purchase from them. Thanks for the history lesson discourse!!

Hey, I like your choice in sweater. Also, cool upbeat video. 😊

Color shift is standard for acrylics anyway. The water evaporates and the paint film is now more concentrated and darker. So they're trying to copyright a basic property of the paints. Sheesh.

Thanks a lot for mentioning my #GSW-Video from 2020 and sharing the link, I really appreciate it - because others would just have copied the info and changed into black and white maybe ;-) By the way: My GSW video is in German BUT includes English subtititles! Just switch them on for more colours … ey, better understanding => kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p855eMydp6qRnYU.html Enjoy!

I myself know of two incidents where ideas from close friends where stolen and trademarked within a week of posting them to social media by GSW. If you buy a neat little gadget from GSW be sure it was another person's idea that they stole and cut the original person out from the revenue

The roller was actually invented by Stefan of Beesputty.

Are they bad? Yup. Discourse look up Blacklist Miniatures. They feel worse to me. Be careful, it is a rabbit hole.

Sword n Steele inspired me to finish my Nighthaunt minis. She didn’t deserve that

“Shifter” is cooler than “Colorshift”

Loving the relentless insertion Oh, sorry. Love the relentless insertion of LOTR references.

Colorshift is also a term in MTG to describe cards breaking the color pie

Poor Naomi Steele, she did nothing wrong and GSW are such a shifty company. They will never get my money, not one dime!

Ok. Write an apology that you think would sound sincere. What they did was dirty but now you are going to reject their apology? What could they have done if they wanted to make it right?

I never liked GSWorld's practices & related politics: I didn't realize the *_Swamp_* went soooo *_Deep._* I will (ahem) *_NEVER_* buy, endorse or likewise look in the general direction of another GSWorld product until..........the sun dies out.* (* then I'll reconsider;-)

Pretty sure the milkman is Pat Mustard 😀

Well that's the end of me ever ordering from them again.

As my fellow countrymen I'm not surprised by their behaviour in the slightest

Using a picture of a painted figure....im not going to sleep tonight....the major op im having next week pales into insignificance compered to this,

Oh , so this kind of weaponized idiocy isn·t exclusive to where i·m at . #ProjectStrix

This is a very well presented and entertaining video. For what it’s worth I won’t be buying anything else from gsw in the future and thanks for the work you put in for this one.

ah beans, I never heard any of this, and now I feel pretty bad about all my kabalites painted in GSW paints...

heh, i had a leaf punch stamp in the 90s from Michael's. Can GSW time travel?

This is really a big nothing burger if we compare the stuff with which Games Workshop gets away with. Seriously, this feels like unnecessary dog piling.

It's almost like GSW sees themselves as a smaller version of Palladium ...

Well this definitely turns me off of greenstuff world. I wanted one of their leaf punchers but since they flat-out stole that from someone else makes it even worse

Now I feel guilty for loving their color shift paints so much. 😬😂☹️