L,.

First

Indeed you do

Awesome thanks

A classic blunder

Personally, Megas should've mostly been saved for the weakest of the weak 3rd stage Pokemon that would be hard to buff otherwise.

@@chrisjohnsen8448 Gigantamax is like the Pokémon version of piloting a megazord and I think that’s pretty metal

​@madnessarcade7447 Cool beans. Why can't I pilot my megazoid anywhere except the league or a raid den? Why am I limited to these 2 locations. Mega evolution wasn't limited. If I wanted to murder a caterpie with mega rayquaza I could. Bring back megas.

Mega is just an extension of Giratina+Griseous Orb, except limited to 1 per battle. Primal Reversion is just another Mega on the side. Rayquaza is just Mega but swapping held item for move (don't want that move? No mega then!). And all of the above are just weaker variants of Key-Item Use Based Forme Changes (DNA Spicers, Gracidea, Reveal Glass, Prison Bottle, etc).

Is it true that gen 5 underperformed in sales? That would make sense as to why they needed something big like megas to help sell gen 6.

same

same

For how many trainers in x and y have mega and how absurdly broken mega blaziken is in oras Mega did ruin my in game experience too

Same.

@@sinnohperson8813 Ah, yes, all the many trainers in XY that use megas... Like Lysander's final battle, the champion and the post-game rival.

But by the same token, I think that the decision to restrict mega evolution to pre-gen VI Pokemon hurts the new pokemon in a way that regional forms do not. You pretty much have to engage with the new generational gimmick in every game even in single player, but regional forms are as optional as any other Pokemon you might encounter in the game. So with only 28 mega pokemon in the game, your team was guaranteed to have a Pokemon from generation I-V in it as your star pokemon, but you could dismiss just about all the new pokemon from gen VI if they weren't fairy type, and that included the starters. Once the professor gives you the gen I starter of your choice, you can put away your original starter if you want to because it cannot mega evolve, making it less useful. Meanwhile, generation VII and VIII both gave their starter pokemon a unique Z-move and Gigantimax form respectively to discourage this. That, I think, was what caused the downfall of megas. They realized that the generational gimmick should if anything highlight the new pokemon and be accessable to all team compositions while regional forms exist to refresh old designs without necessarily giving them an edge. Also, I personally would pick Alolan Raichu over the original every day because giving it the psychic type makes it way more interesting and different than Pikachu, whereas regular Raichu is just Pikachu mark II. If you give Pikachu a light ball IIRC it's stats actually exceed Raichu, so Alolan Raichu feels like the right kind of refresh-- not just a stronger pokemon but a conceptually different one entirely.

@@formlessone8246 That's exactly the point they're making though. Alolan Raichu IS a conceptually different Pokemon to Kantonian Raichu. So much so that you and many others would pick it over the original every time because it has an extra type and a more interesting design concept. That doesn't actually help the original Raichu in any way. In fact it sidelines it even more because people will reach for the shiny new version instead. Like don't get me wrong, I love regional variants and I hope they're here to stay for good, but the idea that they bring relevance back to their original counterparts is just flat out wrong.

@@roanpartridge9239 can't the same be said of mega evolutions? Yes, technically because the transformation ends at the end of the battle your team technically has a Beedrill on it (to pick a random pokemon), but you know as soon as you send it out you are going to mega evolve it. Also, when people praise the design of a mega pokemon they aren't praising the baseline pokemon, they are praising the mega design. Many people praise megas by pointing out how they create the opportunity to change their typing and abilities, which regional forms also do. Consider the following thought experiment: if mega evolution was literally just a third evolution that didn't end at the end of battle, would you still say that it's about improving the design of the original, or would you call it a replacement as well? What do we really mean when we call something an improvement then? I would say that by the criteria you imply, the only thing that counts is changing move pools and stat adjustments, which they do pretty much every game to every pokemon in order to balance them. But that doesn't change their art, which matters to a lot of people.

​@@formlessone8246 But you could theoretically still use the very same Beedrill you transferred all the way up to XY from Red/Blue and Mega Evolve it. Can't quite do the same to your Raichu.

@@Sigmund_Froid I don't see how that matters. We were talking about the designs of the pokemon themselves, not the issue with transferring pokemon between generations, which was essentially impossible between gen III and III for a long time. My thought experiment has more to do with people who catch new pokemon rather than sending teams across games because who would do that with a Beedrill anyway? The assumption that megas are good because they are for making old Pokemon that no one uses is challenged by the fact that they gave me gas to Mewtwo for no reason. But if it were the selling point of megas, regional forms really are just the better method from a balance perspective.

Kinda lame not everyone can do it though. At least with Z moves everyone had a nuke

It just felt epic to mega evolve your ace pokemon

​@@benross9174 What's a nuke if you cannot use it for more than one turn?

exactly, it's literally the perfect power fantasy for the pokemon age demographic, ironically for both the kids and the adults - but also they definitely shouldn't keep making more megas for a multitude of reasons

​@@Hugo-yz1vbdon't nukes only explode once or am I missing something

I think it was Lockstin himself (I could be wrong) who said that mega evos are pretty much "that Pokémon, but MORE." Sharpedo is more teeth, Garchomp is more edges and spikes, Steelix is more minerals and bits orbiting in a magnetic field; Charizard and Mewtwo Y have the "them, but MORE" feel, and their X forms are more like fan-servicey What If? variants.

@@mr.stoneface7699 I’d argue that both Mega Mewtwo forms are just “Mewtwo but MORE” because they’re just an even *stronger* ultimate psychic-type. They’re just strong in different ways.

@@mr.stoneface7699 If you ask me, I think that Mega Y forms are definitely just the them but More feel, while the X forms are more like a pokemon keeping the same basic idea, but expanding on it in a different direction. Mega Mewtwo Y is just a souped up Mewtwo, while Mega Mewtwo X is still clearly Mewtwo, but with new powers to go along with it.

Dynamax is an illusion not the actual pokemon The real pokemon is inside piloting Gamefreak confirmed this themselves

Gigantamax is like the Pokémon version of piloting a megazord and I think that’s pretty metal

Also he is just plain wrong there lol. Mega ray was certainly really good but not as good as the primals and xern and many people used 2 restricteds and a mega rather than 1 restricted and 1 mega restricted like mega kang or mence

Didn't Alola's director express a disliking of Megas a whole? Something, Something, made Pokemon more viable/popular than others something?

I just treat it as info thats only canon to the games where Mega evolutions arent widely used. Because XY and ORAS never give a SINGLE hint that Mega Evolution is bad for the Pokemon, and it just feels like a dumb made up lore excuse for TPC to ditch Megas. Its like they're saying "see? We HAVE to get rid of megas! It's hurting your friends! You don't want that right?" even though they were promoting it as the apex of Human-Pokemon partnership not one year beforehand.

Probably wasn't even Alola trying to metal. I heard a good point that they light have added "oh, megas bad" because they were gonna get rid of them next gen

Much like PL:A’s bizarre “every Pokémon can shrink” detail, game freak just have a penchant for completely ruining their own world building already established.

The anime did showcase a Mega Evolution going haywire (Korrina's Lucario iirc) but that was the closest to anything that Alola's dex entries even bring up about Megas

Yeah, it's the same reason why regional variants and convergent pokemon (even though there's only 4) are so widely loved; take a pokemon, change up the design and maybe typing, possibly add some new evolutions. It's familiar but different.

Literally this

imo Megas should have been limited to unpopular and/or weak Pokémon

yeah, this is a weird take to have just because its so obvious. feels like clickbait

@@johnathanbowers5433 that’s not how weird takes work

Mega gyarados always tried to go for a moxie boost before mega evolving and people ran both tyranitar and mega tyranitar

Playing devil's advocate the other way around (i'm a big fan of megas personally) : terastallization also changes up typings, and whether you choose an offensive or defensive tera type can also change the role of the pokemon in battle.

@@mewziikal8331 But teralization removes secondary type and megas gives new abilities

​@@Andre-zz4hv You still got to keep your original types STAB bonuses while Tera and you always have the option to take advantage of your tera type with Tera Blast.

​@@mewziikal8331Teras just felt like lesser Megas though

Exactly!

They always said it hurt them

@@tobysinbad They didn't until the Alola games dex entries. In gen 6, the gen they were introduced, it was described as a form that can only be done when there's a strong bond between pokemon and trainer.

​@RaguPastaSauce my theory is that the people of Alola wants people to focus on Z-moves instead so they gaslight trainers

That's not the reason buddy 😂

@@legendarytrainer5312 you just wanna disagree

It's funny that you used beedrill as an example as it was hit by dexit twice. Poor Beedrill. Also this was the best take I've seen, alolan ninetails gone after one game and having the choice to not mega if you didn't want is the nail on the head.

this seems very accurate

Yes I agree, but also the others don't look as cool. The only other one that does it is gigantamax. I'll be okay as long as it looks good, and that's how it is for a lot of pokemon fans. So the reason it is so popular is probably because it looks cool and edgy.

I think the flashiness loses its edge almost immediately when in the main game i often never need to mega evolve and in a competitive since it often limits what pokemon you can use. Regional variants and the like are more permanent, expands the world building, can help pokemon out competitively, and is still cool. In other words all the upsides of megas without any of the downsides

@@collinherrin4596 "can help pokemon out competitively" No it doesn't! Ninetales is just as useless as it ever was, the fact that Alolan NInetales was the best screens setter for some times does absolutely nothing for regular Ninetales. "In other words all the upsides of megas without any of the downsides" Except the stat boost, which is the main thing making Megas good. Look at Alolan Raticate or Galarian Stunfisk, both just as useless as their OG forms.

On top of that too, if they kept giving pokemon new megas the pool of megas would have grown over time

Yes but the problem remained the same you don't love mawhile you love her mega that is basically the same thing with zigzagoon i don't love his base form but i love his regional form you are just replacing the worl regional form with mega and you obtain the same thing

@massimilianoreali4398 Not at all. It made me appreciate Mawhile's design through the comparison with its 'ultimate' form. I grew to love the little gal throughout my journey across Alola, as I prepared myself to finally Mega Evolve her towards the end of the game. I've used her countless times before and even after obtaining Mawhilite in her regular form, as one does naturally tend to limit their use of the mechanic (it's not as big of a spectacle if used too often, as well as being a bit of an overkill against regular NPCs).

@@loxeresczech439 explain to me why this would'nt happen with a ragional variant

@massimilianoreali4398 Okay... If I am using a Galarian Slowbro, I don't get to use a regular Slowbro. It's just another similar Pokémon. If I am using Mega Slowbro, I get to use Slowbro and see what makes Slowbro a Slowbro.

Regional forms to me are best when they just expand upon an existing design, but are still recognizably the same basic design. But when they add new evolutions that are basically their own thing it annoys me cuz it makes it seem like the regional form is just superior to the originals now, and the original really should have gotten an evolution too. Stuff like alolan raichu could have easily been a split evolution, and sirfetched could have just been farfetched’s evolution, but instead it’s an exclusive regional form, and it feels more like it’s taking away from the original and basically replacing them.

That‘s not the worst part. The worst part are all these Pokemon Home GTS troll who want for any new pokemon the most specific Furfrou form making it extra hard to complete the Dex.

Probably be in Z-A if most of all Kalos Pokemon coming back.

there are no furfrou outside of xy either

@@XIII_Vanitas Pokemon GO not only have permanent Furfrou trims, but also the only source of them for Pokemon HOME

The thing that excited me about the megas were the diverging timelines. ALL of the lore from gen 4-7 were my favorite

I think that's the point he was making with the crisps, but I agree with you, I don't think that's "giving megas undeserved hype" like he makes out. The fact that the rest of them are things that you can see once and then immediately extrapolate to guess what they'll do to any other pokemon takes all the anticipation out of it. And it IS saitsfying to see and acquire new Megas, because they're not just new designs, they're *special!*

"Because it means that just like every new gen can introduce new pokemon, it can also introduce new megas." - I think there's a fundamental difference here. We don't know which new Pokémon are being added in the new gen because, of course, they're new. While we "know" which Pokémon can get a Mega, every one that already exists, which creates expectations. People don't really have expectations for new Pokémon that we don't know exist, while each gen will always have the "Why didn't you add a Mega to this Pokémon?" or "Why did you add a Mega to this Pokémon?" problems. I have a thought at the back of my mind sometimes that people have alreasdy put so much hype into a potential Mega Flygon that their disappointment will always be there, either because Mega Flygon doesn't exist in Z-A or because the Mega Flygon we get will never meet those expectations.

@@luishenriquefalconifilho2124 and then we ended up with Charizard getting ALL the gimmicks fully baked any people hated it. BECAUSE introducing a NEW gimmick means no iteration but PLAYING IT SAFE. As much as a i love the Charizard line I know WHY he gets all gimmicks: MARKETING. It explains WHY the first megas had popular pokemon as the first because marketing wise safe to do so. but megas could have been EASILY iterated upon and even put megas through different means. HECK the primal forms of groudon and kyogre is the very first step into that. Z moves and dynamaxx could have been EASILY folded INTO the idea of mega evolution, even terreastrialize. so OTHER pokemon could have gotten those different type of mega evolution. Z moves could have been Mega Evololved Moves and dynamaxx could have been a mega form that indicated the form is already perfect but the size empowers the already perfect form. terrastialize could have been a Mega evolution of type instead (since it already happened with Charizard X). But why would that help you may ask: you have to choose WHICH one you want to use. it would mean that you can NOT use all four as in alola you could Z move and mega evolve. so the meta asked you to have both. If it were under the same umbrella you could only have ONE per battle, BUT you can chose which type you can use depending on situation. - do i want to stat boost my ace? - do i want to use one SUPER attack to finish off a pokemon? - do i want to use chungus for what ever that chungus can do? - or do i want to use a type swap for that pokemon i have left but has a weakness to at least 2-3 pokemon of the enemy? as the gimmicks are now they are meant to be different, have different sources of power and thus technically can ALL be used at once in a battle. Its not iteration is trying to catch lightning in a bottle again. With diminishing returns in terms of likability and something to be ignored because it will not return and pokemon will still be stuck in a bad developed state. Iteration in ONE mechanic and keeping it around could have VERY much so made pokemon more interesting over all and probably led to a development cycle that didn't end up with a glitch ridden, uninspired and incompetent mess.

Only 28 megas is a mistake that I have always thought explained why it never came back. I always thought that it really was the intent to keep making new megas, because of the policy that only Pokemon from the first 5 generations got them. It was their first idea for refreshing the designs of old Pokemon that has a gameplay effect, but it turns out to be a really negative effect even on the single player experience. One big problem with it IMO is the simple fact that no one remembers the gen VI starters as fondly in their own games as the gen I starters, and their own generation as the Gen III starters. Even though they have really cool designs and a neat take on the starter rock paper scissors, they don't have mega forms, which is the only reason why you are offered a free Gen I starter later in the game as a tutorial on how the mechanic works. They could and probably should have saved the Gen I starter megas for the Lets Go games, but who knows when the idea for Lets Go came around. Hindsight is 20/20, and the Pokemon company needed a lot of player feedback before they would play test a game without this design choice. I can totally see Alolan exeggutor being a mega design originally before changing the intent because it's easier to balance regional variants, and not having to account for the player absolutely having access to a ridiculously powerful pokemon like a mega on their team helps the encounter designers make trainer battles that actually challenge the player. I distinctly remember people complaining about how easy X and Y were, and then saying that Sun andoon were noticeably harder, especially the Elite 4. I wonder how much that was because in gen VI the player is basically forced to have multiple Pokemon that can mega evolve while most of the Elites don't; whereas the Elites in Sun and Moon have all the same tools at their disposal as you do. Other than the usual cheese like items, of course.

​@formlessone8246 I want to counter the point on the Gen 6 starters, Greninja was literally the most popular pokemon of all time despite not having a Mega. Though you can sorta say it got it later with Ash-Greninja. I want to say the Delphox line got more popular with Braixen's inclusion in Pokken. Chesnaught.... well not all of them are winners every gen lol.

Or lopunny. Who uses lopunny without it's mega evolution? It made certain Pokémon useful, and that's cool

And even then, most of those Mega Evolutions are passed over for more competitively viable ones.

@@cesarflamenco9484 but not all of them. previously low tier mons like charizard, lopunny, pincir, medicham all were OU in gen 6. even mons like sabeleye mawile and kangaskan went all the way up to ubers. there's honestly a lot more of an equal balance to "good mon good mega" and "bad mon good mega" in ubers and ou than people give it credit for. the fact that mega kangaskhan of all mons was out performing something like mega garchomp shows that it wasnt just the good mons doing well

Ill say it. Regular Salamance was doing pretty bad. It jut got too overtuned. Same with Mega ray. And the primals should use your mega slot No one complains about mega ttar There, megas balanced

@@Bird_in_a_Trenchcoat I remember everyone using Mega Gengar and me having fun using Mega Lopunny. Also, Mega Alakazam was quite strong, but super fragile, which made fighting it fun

Regional variants make more sense in the world building than megas. It reflects real world evolution...look at the different sub species we have.

@@queerios9925if something has to reflect the real world to make sense, that’s boring

​@@Gloomdrakeyou can find so many people applying real life logic to fictional media and complaining that it doesn't work like it does in real life so it's a lose lose

​@@Gloomdrakeit's not that it HAS to be realistic but in this case it does genuinely help from a world building standpoint and from a gameplay stand point as it encourages transferring and trading pokemon

what's cooler than gettin a rush if dopamine seeing ur buddie become more badass once when they evolve? seeing them get cooler over & over again! simple, especially for folks like me with barely any visual memory at all hehe

It works because it shows that Pokemon is your ACE, like people have many favorites characters in smash bros, but only one Main. This is why it works so well.

EXACTLY, the bond with the pokemons is what gives Mega evolution it's uniqueness compared to the rest.

​@@Saiyan0XThis is a big part of it! I want to be like Ash, I want to have my own signature Pokémon. Mega evolutions are a great way to represent that enhanced bond.

ohhh, yes I luv this! it's true, this fits with my experience of it being the last of the era before immersion was broken for me with Pokemon mainline series

"We bonded so good, I'm hurting you now! Thanks, cockfight slave! :)"

The problem there is that Mega's take effort and if theres one thing Gamefreak has shown it's that they don't want to put effort into Pokemon anymore.

This

@@TheRezignator Unfortunately not…

@@TheRezignator That explains a lot actually

Predictable megas weren't great at all. Tbh Dynamaxing was more enjoyable & made things more intense. You could mega evolve & die immediately * cough cough lucario & tyranitar*

And the funny thing is that its not even played for drama in the games. It´s just there, like, "Isnt Vikavolt cute? It will totally eat you though, lmao"

I always thought machoke was ugly salamander with gill slit arms. Never understood that suggestion. GF has said the sex is generally treated as an afterthought with no direct connection to the rest of the game. Including the weird sizes and weights.

Dynamaxing feels like a "since we can't realistically make every Pokémon mega, we'll just make them big instead", making it more accessible to strategy without the depth of the individual Pokémon. I can't really say the same for the other gimmicks though.

@@Nefnoj tera is very fun competitively but only with an open sheet format, it's just too unpredictable by itself tho

@@veen6847 I was wondering! I haven't played the game it's from, I know it plays with changing Pokémon types and that Mega Evolution and Regional Variants do the same to lesser control, but didn't know the drawbacks aside from a Pokémon with a giant hat looking a little silly.

​​@@Nefnojimagine if a Pokemon had three types. That's basically Tera typing in a nutshell: you swap out your defensive attributes for the third type when activated, but retain STAB on all attacks of your regular type. Doing so entirely rebalances certain types like Ice which have bad defensive traits, and creates new opportunities for creative play styles. Like, I have an Umbreon build that relies on the way Curse interacts differently with ghosts as all other Pokemon. So I use it as both a setup move, then later terrastalize so I can use it as a status condition. It's super janky I admit, but I can't help but love it. Another Eeveelution trick is the Guts Flareon build that gives it a flame or and terra Normal typing. Until you activate it's terra type, it can't be burned, so you have time to setup with speed increases, then terrastalize it to activate the flame orb and go to town with crazy powerful takedown or Last Resort damage. Terrastalize feels like one of the more brainy gimmicks like Z-moves, unlike megas which were all about the stat lines.

Even then they aren't always balanced, especially in the sense of dynamaxing

In other words, he’s cherry picking comments that just make his points more valid.

Amen brother lol. Truer words never spoken

All ages

'Being childish' is not a criticism. It's a flavor.

I don't think he meant it's childish so it's bad, I interpreted it more as 'it speaks to the childhood hype we had and feeds into that aspect of the nostalgia'

@@TaliesinMyrddin No that is very clearly his stance, he actively makes fun of the fans that like Mega Evolution at the end of the video. Not a bad thing, he’s obviously just joking around and it’s just his opinion, but doesn’t really change that he’s trying to paint over it like the fans that like the mechanic are overrating it, are silly for liking it, etc.

They could've done something better though

Plus a thing that I NEVER hear from the people who are saying is that Gigantamax forms can canonically _also_ hurt the Pokemon. Like Toxicitry. Also, its not like the Pokedex is the most reliable thing ever, claiming that Absol is the bringer of misfortune and then later correcting it to **warn** about misfortune. So who knows if Alolan researchers weren‘t just wrong.

I disagree. Not only would it be silly to think game freak would deliberately try to make it look like a mechanic in their own game is bad (like, inherently that's just silly. They could just not put them in), it also completely ignores the rest of gen 7s pokedex being just as dark. Guess game freak wanted us to also hate using primeape because he suffers from heart attacks in anger? Or Gengar hunting and killing people? All of gen 7 was darker, that's just how the dex entries were written. No point trying to cherry pick them for conspiracy theories.

@zerogravitee Fine then. By your own admission: *Many gen 7 Pokedex entries* are dark. It just so happens, however, that those are the only ones that exist for megas. They are basically slandered without the chance for a "second opinion / perspective," like Absol got Pokedex - wise. We wind up at exactly the same spot where those Pokedex entries don't match up with how megas are presented in the rest of the franchise. I will admit it is definitely conspiracy theory territory that they tried to make us hate the concept retroactively before ditching it with other "baggage" in gen 8. *But it doesn't really matter.* Megas were presented as positive *everywhere* except the (oddly dark) gen 7 dex entries, so people are willing to throw out the outlier in their headcanon because it straight up makes more sense. All in all, citing stupid edgelord dex entries that conflict with everything else is a shaky example when dismissing Mega Pokemon. That's all.

Honestly this debate is kinda dumb because NOT ALL mega-evolution entries were dark and hurtful therefore mega evolution in general is not totally bad.

@MrMisutei There were like 4 positive ones. The grand majority were oddly dark.

THIS. THANK YOU. One of my major beefs with megas has always been how it makes Kalos as a whole feel like less its own thing and more like an excuse to pander to (arguably overindulgent) nostalgia. I would likely not have as many issues with megas if: 1. It wasn't a gimmick confined to Pokémon OUTSIDE the generation it was introduced in, or 2. It was introduced in a remake or sequel of an older gen.

It's as if they added a new evolution. That's it, happens all the time. In fact, the most interesting part for competitive is that you can only use one Mega, and that they have to hold an item, meaning you need to consider during Team Building which mon to use, and if another item might be better. It's genuinely the most interesting Part of making a Nat Dex Team on Showdown for me.

​@Sigmund_Froid Plus for more proof Rayquaza being free to have whatever item it wants was one of the bigger reasons why Mega Ray was so obscene. As for the VGC argument I think the fact that ignoring Garchomp even the better and already good Pokemon with Megas played around both normal and mega forms. Like Blaziken doing better overall in its regular form over the mega, Tyranitar faking you out, etc. We have proof of it existing alongside other gimmicks with its presence in Gen 7. And of course Gamefreak both isn't the best at balance to begin with and also they only really care to make the attempt for VGC/doubles which has went from yeah they mostly designed it with x in mind to we only design with this in mind.

He's kind of ignoring the fact that Mega Ray was a pretty rare restricted Pokemon in the VGC season it won the World Championship with because most people would rather run Primal Groudon/Kyogre + Xerneas. Lockstin is cherrypicking that you *need* to run Mega Ray just because it's on the team of the winner of that VGC season.

Yea that's why I love gigantamaxing because megas are like super saiyan and gigantamaxing are like super saiyn 100😂

you can literally say the same thing about regional forms and paradox, that's not unique to megas

@@Yamartim yes you can and I would also be annoyed if regional forms or paradoxes got removed. But as of now they haven't which I'm happy about but if they were suddenly only in spin off games I'd be kinda peeved

@@jeremytorres5622 I actually WAS kinda annoyed by the very low number of Paldean regional forms. Like, I understand that they wanted to have some fun with both convergent evolution and Paradox Pokémon, but I do wish they'd given us more than the two. I also don't think there will be more Paradox Pokémon after this generation, but at least the ones we have will be carried over. (Unless they get dexit'd.)

@@alexanderkrizakI wish we’d gotten a Paldean Meowth. Meowth should have gotten a new Regional Variant every game going forward. They already gave it two in a row. They should have doubled down

“Generic” idk zmoves and dynamax gave moves a lot of personality

exactly this!

You're not wrong people do like that, but the first ones are still always the most popular. Goku turning Super Saiyan for the first time against Freeza is far more renowned than Gohan's SSJ2 or even Goku's SSJ3. Same for Luffy, I even remember people complaining about gear 4, because it was "so ugly". I mean Dyna/Gigantamax were transformations and people's opinion of them were extremely mixed.

Didn't know Goku was the name of show but okay!

Certain specific Mega Evolutions were unbalanced, not the mechanic as a whole, but the same is true even of regular evolutions. Every single generation, Smogon will ban specific Pokémon because they break the meta. Heck, even in Gen6, not all of the Pokémon who got banned were Megas.

The thing with that though is that none of the gimmicks were balanced. You give eevee a unique 2x omni boost and it can baton pass with z moves? Thats disgusting in doubles when you can have a 2nd teammate force hits with follow me. Tera requires shedinja to not exist otherwise sandstorm/burn/toxic would be needed on every team due to air balloon electric tera. Gmax lapras can just setup an aurora veil? ... Honestly idk which Gmax form was broken but know people also didn't think it was balanced.

When Megas were first introduced I totally thought that it was going to be tied into the new Affection mechanic with Poke-monami like you needed to have a certain rank to use it and how many turns it would be applied

⁠@@declanmckenna6854yeah it really should have been. That always bugged me when i first played x and y that you could just catch a pokemon, give it a stone and have it mega evolve from minute one despite them supposedly being the expression of the bond between the trainer and pokemon

I think they were popular because the special attention to some of our favorites and underrated Pokémon similar to regional variations

they do those types of plots all the time in the anime though but with normal evolutions instead of megas, it happened all the way back with like one of the earliest episodes of the anime is about a paras overcoming its cowardice to save its trainer then it evolves, happened pretty recently too with goh and his scorbunny

Ash and gengar learning Gmax and Pikachu earning pikashunium Z was well written so I disagree

Yeah I can see that

See above

Same! The trainer bears the power of the transformation along with the Pokemon! Thats why I think in Z-A the bosses could be enraged wild Megas that have no partner

Hell, the Mega Lucario dex entry is basically what happened in the anime when Korrina failed her mega evolution.

EXACTLY

There is a stark difference to a boxer getting beat up in the ring and being tortured to unlock some sort of inner power.

@@aracharsley7357 that part

@@aracharsley7357 there is a stark difference to a boxer gettin beat up in the ring and a little pikachu been torched alive by a Flametrower, or been trowed in to a Earthquake, or been drived to madness by a Psych, or...

THANK YOU! Geez, why do people choose to Go full team Plasma when it comes to Mega Evolution alone?

And he put megas into his own series too. Weird that he didn't bring it up.

I see you are also an Arlo fan. 🤣

And you don't think Megas wern't way overpowered in Singles? o.O

@@Tm_Slink There were, what, 6 megas moved to Ubers from OU, and a couple from ubers to AG. Meanwhile dynamax and Gmax are just straight banned at ALL tier levels on ALL pokemon for gen 8 singles.

@@KunouNoHana that's because ever since gen 7 pokemon was never bothered to be for singles in the first place really, vgc reigns king

​@@Tm_SlinkYes, yes I do in Fact think Megas weren't broken in Singles. Unlike Dynamax, only a handful of Megas have been banned as opposed to the entire Mechanic

Singles is irrelevant though, Smogon isn't official. Dynamax is very balanced when it comes to doubles, the actual format of the competitive scene.

Also as far as competitive is concerned, I've never understood the argument that they were unhealthy for competitive specifically because you "needed" one for your team. It has nothing to do with them being megas, they just happened to be strong Pokemon because the mega boost gave them high BSTs. There's a group like megas seemingly every generation now; the Ultra Beasts & Tapus were everywhere in gen 7, gen 8 was a bit more varied (unless you count Dynamax), and now in gen 9 most teams have a paradox Pokemon. Are Ultra Beasts or Paradox Mons "bad for competitive" because most teams require one? Especially since these groups are even more thinned than Megas? (48 Megas, 11 Ultra Beasts, 20 Paradox)

the spin off point doesn't really work, megas are just in more spin offs because they're easier to implement for spin offs since they're just a simple form change, unlike z moves that have elaborate animations and dynamax that completely changes the scale of the game. also as a gameplay mechanic they're very much just a gimmick and always were... its a get stronger button that plays a fancy animation there's zero depth to it, if anything it made battles a lot worse as lockstin described making options way more limited

@@Yamartim Sure they're easier to implement than other gimmicks but by that point developers could just as easily not include any gimmicks form the main series; and in many cases went out of their way to squeeze them in. Why? Because they're not meant to be a gimmick. Also doesn't change the main point: They're essentially full-blown Pokemon. They deserve to be kept around just as much as Purugly or Crabominable because they're someone's favorite somewhere

I miss Mega Mawile because it felt like they finally gave the poor thing the evolution it truly needed... though it was a bit overtuned battle-wise.

Based take. Just goes to show that Pokemon focusing on one off gimmicks has been a mistake.

Counter point: Mega Rayquayquay was designed to be bullshit as it was only ever meant to be legal in an official setting during special VGC tournaments. So they didn't care about balancing it. As for Mega Kang, it was busted in Gen 6, but was fixed in Gen 7. Parental Bond's 2nd hit was reduced down to basically chip damage, resulting in it dropping off amongst rampant power creep. Compared to the current SV meta & powerlevel - the megas that exist right now... Besides the green sky snake... would all be perfectly balanced below Ubers.

Dex entries aren't the best source of facts sometimes, even though they are supposed to be.

Also, pokemon are fictional characters, which is why the love I feel for my pokemon negates any and all pain they feel and when they "faint" they're actually just pretending to faint to give the other team a sporting chance.

Why did I never realize the irony of this until just now?

For me it just gave Mawile an evolution, which was hype enough. Though I wish it was a permanent evo instead of a mega (different Ability though) :\

Heck, Smogon uses a Tier System for that Reason. They realized, that in a Game with such a casual focus will have a lot of different Mons with different viability, and balanced each accordingly.

Boy did that move backfire on Pokémon. Dynamax could’ve been better if there was something that kept it in check and the same with Terastal.

The idea of Mega Evolution is my hill, and I'll use the bodies of my enemies to turn it into a space scrapping mountain. We can argue about the implementation on nearly even ground.

I don't hate Tera, I hate that the only idea they had for the form was _stupid_ hats. The creepy eyes hinting towards something darker was neat, but the darkness was a terrible implementation of the null type.

Thank Arkoos someone else said it. I felt like I was in an echo chamber

I’m not sure if this is entirely true as we only got those dex entries in Gen 7 but Pokémon like Tyranitar and Steelix clearly show certain parts of their bodies being damaged or blown out so I feel like this energy oversurge Pokémon go through was planned from the start If they were planned to be temporary it’s weird to make them also in pain but then also only add the pain context in the games after

Bruh

Yeah, I agree. I'm still waiting to get some love for my boi Qwilfish. Overqwil is nice and all, but it's not the one I love 😢

they're cousins

If I were to be blunt about it, they're recolors.

true. i love them, but they're more like retools of existing pokemon. The original still sucks

In fact ITS a impossible world to live humanity before befriending pokemon was litterally doomed from the start

Thought that as well. Mega's can also be used for a nice "Different' approach. Like Z-moves, mega's could been totally become useless by.."removing said item" Until Mega-Rayquaza.. but let's be real... that was the lamest mega since it wasn't a reversal.. doesn't need a cool item.. and while looking cool... felt the least earned.

i can pick my pikachu from gen3 and evolve it to a alolan raichu

But at that point is Mega Beedrill still Beedrill? Or is it a different Pokémon that just looks and has the same name as your Beedrill Does it feel the same?

Well you still have to use regular beedrill to mega-evolve so, yes? Honestly it could go either way. Regular beedrill is the form it has until you get into battle and "go mega". On the other hand, if Mega Beedrill was just Kalosian Beedrill, it would outstrip regular beedrill in everyday and kanto beedrill may as not exist (competitively, so like it is now😅). Doesn't mean some people won't prefer Kanto beedrill, it just won't have nearly as much (pardon my pun) buzz around it

you can do the same with way more pokemon by giving it a z-move, dynamaxing or terastalizing it, thats not unique to megas

On that note about megas were also the only thing to make into any remake being a major part of oras through the eon twin flights and mega requaza meanwhile nothing like that made it into bdsp

I didn’t hear about the second timeline, mind explaining it for me?

@@xderrodecki8905 tbf though ORAS were made by Game Freak, BDSP were made by an independent company with (I imagine) the lowest asking price.

@@xderrodecki8905 part of that was Gamefreak not wanting BDSP to outshine PLA, if anything they would have expanded the lore around Dynamaxing allowing the gen8 metagame to evolve.

@@infernaldisdain8051 AZ from X and Y built a machine that was made to revive his dead pokemon that was forcibly conscripted and died in the Kalos war. After he succeeded he turned that machine into a weapon and destroyed the world with it and the energy from that weapon created the Megastones. In the original timeline(Gen 1-5) AZ didn't fire the weapon and the Kalos war ended in a different way.

Heck yeah! The Mega Accessories are such a small thing, but they add so much to the Designs of the Trainers! It's a cool thing to look for when you see a new Trainer! The Anime also did some cool stuff with it, like giving Cynthia a Mega Lipstick! And giving the Mon an Accessory to hold the Keystone was interesting to see. It's a small thing, but nice nonetheless!

Yeah, this video feels like a desperate attempt to find a reason to justify his own dislike of the mechanic, rather than for the popularity of it... Like, "People like this popular thing, but I dislike it, so clearly everyone who likes it must be wrong!" Him belittling people for liking Megas is what makes this video stick out negatively though...

And then get disappointed and having to hold out hope for the next few years. The chip analogy is spot on.

​@@kayschut9327 it's true, but I don't see it as that different to the hype for new Pokémon or regional forms. Other than it being left behind after gen 7 I don't see why it's any more "addictive" or "unsatisfactory" than the other new features.

@@froggerfly13I think I can see a big difference, speaking in broad terms. New Pokémon are, you know, new; there is no expectation of what they’ll be (there is a case to be made for the starters final evolutions, but that is a separate matter). Regional forms are mostly just an added bonus, a treat; nobody is begging for, I don’t know, Sunflora to get a regional form but, if it ends up getting one, that’s cool. The feeling of megas is much different because they inherently imply an “upgrade”. You WANT underused Pokémon to get megas, and will get disappointed when they don’t get one (i.e. “why neglect this one in favour of this other one?”) or worse, if they do get a mega and it ends up being disappointing to you. The backlash from “I was expecting something better and I get this garbage” is much stronger than the backlash from “wow, this new thing is garbage”.

@@cesargpfis Except regional forms and new evos get backlash like that already. Look at how many got made about dundunsparce.

That's because Mega Evolution was broken as hell.

​@@Tm_SlinkYeah, I don't buy that excuse when Dynamax exists. A mechanic so broken it alone can win most single battles

​@@Tm_Slinkyeah but for the 90 percent of the player base that only realy plays single player that meant the later ones just felt like lamer versions of the same thing

Finally a pokemon fan that gets it. Competitive players and people obsessed with metas are so toxic then they have the gall to call casuals toxic when they have made GF change stuff like when they got smeargle removed for more than one gen after smeargle destroyed their "metagame".

Yeah… and that sound at the end of the was primal.

well that's also because farfetch'd and delibird really really really suck,while mega beedrill is the best example of making a pokemon somewhat relevant megas have, it's stat spread is completly different from beedrill, bedrill was a somewhat fast and had special bulk, but the mega made it a physicall sweeper

Yeah, not getting anything for our Leekduck while there's a new one that gets all the love feels a little sucky

I was gonna say the same, the regional variants are an amazing concept and help bring new opportunities for an evolution line, but it almost requires pushing an older Mon out of its spotlight. Like Sirfetchd was a great thing, but what does it do for regular Farfetch’d? Nothing. It’s still awful and has nothing to its name. Same with the Paradoxes, that’s not a Donphan, that’s Great Tusk, it’s not the same Mon, it’s effectively just a look alike.

I mean, at the same time there is Ninetales. Both ice and fire fox have a use, and while A-Ninetales is arguably better, you can still run the other Ninetales on a deciated team and do fine.

I feel like Paradox Pokemon aren't the best argument for defense of cutting Mega Evolutions considering I doubt they are going to make new ones for the next generation. They're more in like a similar category than Ultra Beasts than anything.

This

Paul moment

I am pretty sure Lockstin still likes Pokemon. A balance of objectivity and subjectivity is goood

​​@@leandraferesthogar7249 And yet, this video makes a bad attempt at masking a subjective dislike of a Mechanic as objective, and belittles people for having a subjective preference. It's okay to like OR dislike something subjectively, especially if you show awareness of it. This video does not.

The amount of tera types for EACH Pokémon in addition to the natures and abilities and marks...🤯

it's balanced for doubles ...don't ask why there are hardly any double battles in the main game

@scrunkore its kinda,in tournaments yes,because you can know the adversary Terá type,but in the ladder, you can loose a whole battle just because you didn't predict correctly a type change

horde battles only had relatively simplistic pokemon in them and still lagged a fair bit

That’s honestly a super cool theory

That honestly sounds like a really cool piece of lore and is surprisingly close to the irl reason....

Oh, you know what would have been better though? If they actually buffed Beedrill’s base stats and move pool. Just accept that Mega Evolutions were an embarrassment of an addition. You don’t work towards a Mega, there’s no blood sweat and tears, it’s literally a button press and that’s it. And like you said, Beedrill’s Mega was heavily outclassed by more popular Pokémon with Megas, who you would be giving up a slot for. So, the mechanic didn’t even work to give Beedrill the spot light. Just because Megas made a Pokemon you liked a little better, doesn’t mean it was a good mechanic.

​@egbertmilton4003 If people had fun then it was a good mechanic. The point of this game is to have fun. Fun can be had in many different ways. For many casuals, megas are fun. Yet we are belittled by lockstin and comments like yours. If GF wasn't so lazy and greedy they could have fixed the issues competitive purists have while letting us casual continue to have our fun. But they got rid of it like they do with every good thing in these games.

​@@egbertmilton4003 You know what would be even better, accepting that you're subjective view works for you and not others. What would be better, is not calling something that some people enjoy an embarrassment, because you didn't like it. There isn't a need to buff beedrill, having a mega for it was fine. There is always going to be a meta. Funny enough Gen 6 meta, was surprisingly healthy. Sure you had one or two megas on a team, but remember you were trading utility for that. Outside of the Ray. Ray was the exception not the rule. But a lot of the Mega's were more utility based and a good chunk where used because of that. Gen 7 had a relatively healthy meta as well while having access to both Z moves and mega. Why are you acting like the meta in other games is super diverse it really isn't. Objectively you end up with like 30ish Pokémon being relevant and then a few one offs that have zero meta relevance and is someone try harding to make it work. Also depending on if you played by set rules or not would determine the state of the Meta. Mega was neither good or bad, it just was their and some people loved it and some didn't. The whole point of megabeedrill is the mind game. The fact you have it and you may use it makes it real interesting for how to engage in battle. It gets even more interesting as realistically you wouldn't be using it. But you notice you opponent has a team you could realistically set up fell stinger against, suddenly beedrill is viable. But more importantly then that, let's not forget that at that time and even now gamefreak doesn't care about the competitive scene. Any argument for that is out of touch, and fantasizing. That is entirely something the fans like and overrate. Game freak cares about making a fun rpg experience they just have pvp in it. To them having a combination of having early game pokemon doing something new and evolve outside of it intended use, or more popular mega's being used for fun is just part of the fun. It was fun for a lot, and it was lame to others. Both are fine. The gimmick objectively was perfect for it's purpose, and despite what anyone said it was always intended as a gimmick. (Literally X and Y flat out say that. ORAS reached so hard to make it work. And the only reason gen VII had anything to do with Mega's was because of the remnants of X and Y that were incomplete and were put half baked into utra variants of the game.) The reality is Mega's work almost entirely due to lore, and the fact that it was intrinsically a part of the whole bond between the trainer and pokemon is a large reason why it was so loved. (A surprising number of fans legitimately love lore and Mega evolution more so then any other fits in pokemons overall lore better then any other gimmick) I knew it was gimmick, and as a whole I enjoy it. The pokemon I wanted to get mega's weren't even considered (Parasect, who no I never want it to get an updated BST or movepool It's stupid pokemon whose ability and typing makes it borderline unusuable and I would have it no other way. To change that would defeat part of what I like about it as my favorite pokemon. also have litterally zero interest in any regional variant and realistically would hate a regional variant. Then there is milotic just beacause I'm curious what the supposedly most beautiful pokemon would evolve to for more beauty, and think not having mega for contest was the greatest blunder that gamefreak did that generation. The fact that not a single gen VI pokemon got a mega still annoys me. Avulugg deserved better). Just to go on it isn't nostalgia that's the excuse people are giving because they just didn't like it. That's okay Mega's weren't for them. I dislike Dynamaxing and honestly if gamefreak removed dynamaxing and only had gmaxing I would like it much better. Terastelization I like, hate the design of it, but functionality wise I like it. (I also do not think it is remotely balanced, and is be far the least balanced of any gimmick, but still love it functionally). And for both those systems I just accept they aren't really for me and that's okay. It's not nostalgia or first time bias that makes people love them. it's something about how those individual's play the game and engage with those gimmick that works for them, and more power to them. I hope that for the people that like those gimmicks find them instrisict enough to their enjoyment to want to have them back. If not I then think that those are objectively bad gimmicks that gamefreak messed up on their delivery. That would be saddening to learn. Now to give nostalgia gen one had the best thunder, thunderbolt, and bubble beam VFX and SFX. That's nostalgia. And I will die on that hill. But I acknowledge that is nostalgia.

I mean, he spent an entire video exploring why people might like megas. You might disagree with the take, but he's clearly put in the work to engage with the mega argument.

Well then bring forth an argument about it. In this video Lockstin does go through so some of the arguments that speak for Megas and they kinda fall apart once you actually start to think about them.

Agreed. And sometimes people just LIKE things in a way that's hard for them or anyone to articulate. And sometimes that's a common sentiment because the thing is just unspecifically "cool".

Nah, people can just be idiotic about their likes. People are objectively wrong about saying mega evolution was ever a good addition to the games

​@@egbertmilton4003 How are people objectively wrong? Care to back that up? Of people like it, why is it wrong since all pokemon is is a digital fog fighting game.

😂

😂

And it couldn’t learn Draco Meteor because it was a tutor move for dragons which Sceptile and Ampharos technically weren’t

But would a regional Gress/dragon sceptile be just as if not more cool?

@@Gnoggin With respect, no. The reason I dislike regional variants is it can leave the original in the dust and be forgotten or never used. The original Sceptile will probably always be the coolest and fan favorite, so to have a different form replace it would be in bad taste. Rather with a mega, you get the cool design, type, and buffed stats with your favorite pokemon, without taking away its original form because it reverts back to it. I would much rather have my favorite pokemon Steelix get its sick mega design, and better usage, rather then some weird paradox pokemon that doesn't make alot of sense and it just super overpowered where you never look at normal Steelix again... Cough Delibird,

@@GnogginSee I’d have liked it if Megas had have been kept along as regional forms! It’s the fact they only got one generation to shine that makes me miss them. Dynamax and Terastal didn’t really have the same feel and Z-moves were such a flash in the pan that I kind of forgot it existed.

​@@GnogginNot at all because that is another pokemon that is part of the Sceptile family but is not Sceptile. That is the thing with paradox and regional forms, they are not adding to the pokemon they are based of, they are replacing it. Alolan ninetales is very used, but nobody even look to Kantonian Ninetales, Sirfetch'd is a really cool evolution for... galar farfetch'd, meanwhile Kalos farferch'd is just as dead as always. Like many people already said, mega evolution really do something for the original pokemon without replacing it but enhancing it, that is the why at least for me is better.

It was a thing in the XY anime long before Sun & Moon. Either they just didn’t know how to implement that lore into the games in a meaningful way, or they adopted that part of the anime’s canon.

Are you talking about Korrina's Lucario and the berserk mode thing? Personally I'd count that as an issue with them being on the threshold of being fully in sync. I was referring to the SuMo dex entries where it describes Mega Evolving being physically painful for the Pokémon, like with Glalie's jaw breaking or Houndoom's claws melting.

@@KingKuron_ the bond aspect can still apply there. Despite being in physical pain, the Pokémon is able to tolerate it because it has a trainer it can focus on and trust.

@@CaptainObliviousV that was also the case with regular evolutions in the anime though. Ash's Charizard practically goes berserk just from evolving in the normal fashion and has to be sent to a boarding school for feral 'zards.

@@Highstar25 Ash’s Charizard never went berserk, it evolved purely so it could fight Aerodactyl. It didn’t obey him because it didn’t respect him, thought it was too good for Ash after it evolved into Charmeleon; it’s stated as such in the Paras episode. It was the anime’s way of doing the obedience cap the badges have in the games. The whole “boarding school” thing wasn’t because it was feral, Ash had long since gained its respect and trust by that point and he left it there because he felt it would be able to grow stronger there than it could with him; even though Charizard didn’t want to leave him, he felt it was the right thing to do for Charizard’s sake.